[nassau]

The McBook might not be replacing the Powerbook. think about it, they dropped dual layer and FW800. how could this be the top of the line Apple laptop out there? i truly believe that the McBook is a MiddleBook between the future iBook and the future Powerbook.

The G4 Powerbook is still available as if nothing had happened, the brand of "Powerbook" is a little too strong to just give up, the "lack" of certain features in the McBook.... a few things are pointing at the fact that - the Powerbook is still alive!

not that i give 2 shits but i want this thread to be hailed as revolutionary in foresight when the bomb drops.

thanks

[Mugge]

The reason Apple has dropped dual-layer is probably just in order to reintroduce it with rev. B of the MacBook Pros. Just to have a sales argument by then. I don't know about the FW 800, to me it looks like the market and Intel has killed FW.

In the future I think we are going to have one line of portables; the MacBook, where the upper end will enjoy the "Pro" suffix.

13" MacBook - to replace the iBook, perhaps on April 1st?
15,4" MacBook Pro - has replaced the PB.

More to come:
17" MacBook Pro - sounds reasonable given the current 17" PB
11"MacBook Mini - purely my speculations, maybe a tablet
15" MacBook - less grunt and resolution than the Pro, again speculation

:smokey:

[lectro]

Dual Layer DVDs still cost far more than they should. Firewire 800 is used by a tiny number of devices when compared to the vast armies of USB2 devices and the array of camcorders that use firewire 400. (Plus, it's still buggy.) The powerbook line is still available for those professionals who need a high-performance, dependable Mac laptop too much to jump on the potentially bumpy ride of a first generation laptop. After the intel macs have either proven themselves worthy or had the bugs worked out, it's so long, powerbooks!

[ZachPruckowski]

Problem: How much do the new PBs cost if they are the "top of the line" and this isn't?

The only way there could be three lines is if the PB moved up a bit, the iBook moves to $700-$1200, and the MacBook Pro was $1200-$2000 but how much would people pay for a PB?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski Problem: How much do the new PBs cost if they are the "top of the line" and this isn't? The only way there could be three lines is if the PB moved up a bit, the iBook moves to $700-$1200, and the MacBook Pro was $1200-$2000 but how much would people pay for a PB?

They could have three structures:
$500 - $999
$1000 - $1999
$2000 - $2999

IIRC, there is ample precedent for a $2999 Apple notebook (though nothing in recent memory), so I don't think it's extraordinarily unlikely. I would be *much* more surprised if Apple managed to release a $500 notebook.

[ZachPruckowski]

Ok, so by your logic, what's the order? iBook < PowerBook < MacBook Pro? Because the MacBook Pro just took the $2k+ slot. That makes the PowerBook the middle line, about where the iBook used to be? And the iBook some sort of sub-$1000 laptop? I don't see it. But maybe. And I think that Steve Jobs did kill the PowerBook name.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I think the next update to the MBP will contain the 64bit (Merom?) chipset. Same with the iMac. Especially with the iMac as it's just gone from 64bit (G5) to 32bit CPU architecture.

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by nassau The McBook might not be replacing the Powerbook. think about it, they dropped dual layer and FW800. how could this be the top of the line Apple laptop out there? i truly believe that the McBook is a MiddleBook between the future iBook and the future Powerbook. The G4 Powerbook is still available as if nothing had happened, the brand of "Powerbook" is a little too strong to just give up, the "lack" of certain features in the McBook.... a few things are pointing at the fact that - the Powerbook is still alive! not that i give 2 shits but i want this thread to be hailed as revolutionary in foresight when the bomb drops. thanks

Search is your friend. Same thread just a few below this.

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=12735

[rollercoaster375]

Please change your title <_< If it was a "McBook", even I don't think I could get along with the name.

[psmith2.0]

The MacBook Pro is the new PowerBook. I know some don't like it, but tough.

I'm sure it'll get Merom as soon as it makes sense (latter half of 2006), and be the dual-core, 64-bit pro laptop we've always dreamed about.

And the PowerBooks (things actually called "PowerBooks") will go away. But in name only, because these things ARE the new PowerBooks.

We're just going to be in a bit of a 6-12 month (and maybe longer, for some) transition phase, where there will be both PPC and Intel Macs co-existing. Eventually, it'll only be Intel hardware, but both Apple and third party companies will probably be quite generous and provide both software versions (or however that's phrased...universal?) for a good 1-3 years (taking us to 2010). No one's going to be "left out in the cold" anytime soon, I'm certain.

Let's be reasonable...by 2010, everyone is probably going to have an Intel Mac anyway. Murbot will probably be on his 32nd one or something...

Aside from those mudsticks still running 8.6 on a Motorola clone and refusing to budge, most everyone has migrated to OS X and modern G3/G4/G5-based hardware over the past 4-5 years.

So...4-5 years from now, it'll be the same type of thing, and Apple will simply have to make a cut-off point to the "poor slobs still running dual 2.7GHz G5 towers from 2005".



But by then we'll probably have dual 3.6GHz iBooks, so it all evens out...

[Mugge]

I wonder what kind of transitions we will be making in 2010?

AtomChip?

[BuonRotto]

What, are we cross-branding with McDonald's now? Free in every Happy Meal?

[doublem9876]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto What, are we cross-branding with McDonald's now? Free in every Happy Meal?

Dammit, that's exactly what I was about to say!

[ZachPruckowski]

Originally Posted by Mugge I wonder what kind of transitions we will be making in 2010? AtomChip?

OS 11 probably.

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 TAside from those mudsticks still running 8.6 on a Motorola clone and refusing to budge, most everyone has migrated to OS X and modern G3/G4/G5-based hardware over the past 4-5 years.

Don't knock 8.6 -- by far, it was the best version of Classic OS released, and the first version to really jump way ahead of Windows after MS released Windows 95 (call me a blasphemer but for a year or two after Windows 95 was released, Windows was actually better IMHO than Mac OS). I was still running that on my 233 Mhz 12 inch G3 PowerBook until a year ago when some idiot stole it while I was moving. Dummie, that thing was probably worth only one or two hundred bucks.

[MacRonin]

Screw Classic!!!

Mac OS X is where we should have been long ago, if not for that wanker Scully ousting Stev-o...

[Swing]

While I always disliked Pepsi-Scully, even when his and Jobs' smiles were plastered across all the media before Jobs was banished, I am not so sure the banishment did not actually improve Jobs and the designs which eventually made their way into the Macs of today . . . just my 2 cents . . .

[CyberGourmet]

At this rate even if the MacBook had a FW800 I would sit tight with my 17" 1.33

This looks like a market glut and I value my lappy at more than the $1200 it's worth at the moment.

I would give it up for a 17" dual core with FW800 (or card slot solution) that runs $2599... not bloody likely anytime soon.

Than again maybe I'd get a dual desktop for about $1300 and keep the PB... that would be cheaper. Hmmm...

•and yes. I use FCP and combustion. So the ram bump on the desk and the 64bit processor would still be faster than the Power-for-Watt solution.

It would be like buying a Prius to tow your motorboat to the lake. Save on gas but is that the point?

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Swing While I always disliked Pepsi-Scully, even when his and Jobs' smiles were plastered across all the media before Jobs was banished, I am not so sure the banishment did not actually improve Jobs and the designs which eventually made their way into the Macs of today . . . just my 2 cents . . .

I think Jobs would have mellowed regardless of his banishment. He always has been a brilliant man; and I don't doubt for a minute that Apple would be even better off today than they are now, had they been guided by Jobs for all those 10 years where Apple was tossed around in a game of CEO hot potato.

[Swing]

Messiahtosh, you may be right. My take is Jobs may have been constrained by the then-existing architecture and not morphed into the NeXT/Pixar/MAC OS X BSD Darwin monster that he is today.

To quote Bode Miller: " . . . life is the sum of experiences . . .. " And to quote Steve Jobs: "you've got to find what you love . . .."

On the other hand, it is very hard to overstate how terrible Scully and Amelio were . . .

[gjas15]

Originally Posted by lectro Dual Layer DVDs still cost far more than they should. Firewire 800 is used by a tiny number of devices when compared to the vast armies of USB2 devices and the array of camcorders that use firewire 400. (Plus, it's still buggy.) The powerbook line is still available for those professionals who need a high-performance, dependable Mac laptop too much to jump on the potentially bumpy ride of a first generation laptop. After the intel macs have either proven themselves worthy or had the bugs worked out, it's so long, powerbooks!

Firewire 800 is very useful. 480mb/sec vs 800mb/sec is a HUGE difference if your running an external raid array. Photoshopping with a 5400rpm laptop scratch drive is very aggravating.

Also, USB was designed to connect everything. Firewire was more for video and other high bandwidth streaming devices from the outset. They arent replacements for one another, they are complimentary.

Plus why dont you just drop the 400 port and use an adapter with the 800? It seems like if you were going to drop one or the other that would be the way to do it in a PRO laptop.

[saschke]

Originally Posted by gjas15 Firewire 800 is very useful. 480mb/sec vs 800mb/sec is a HUGE difference if your running an external raid array. Photoshopping with a 5400rpm laptop scratch drive is very aggravating. Also, USB was designed to connect everything. Firewire was more for video and other high bandwidth streaming devices from the outset. They arent replacements for one another, they are complimentary. Plus why dont you just drop the 400 port and use an adapter with the 800? It seems like if you were going to drop one or the other that would be the way to do it in a PRO laptop.

Isn't it possible to use that Express /w34 slot in the near future for everything FW800? Everybody is complaining about the lack of features in the new MacBooks Pro but that new standard should solve some of the problems people are talking about like lack of cardreaders, FW800 etc. While I'm not completly sure on which site it was, one blog-author who talked to an Apple rep even stated that there is a s-video adapter included that fits on the DVI-Port. And why the *§!§"%" is everyone complaining about 5400 rpm drives while you can BTO 7200 rpm ones? (I'm not talking to you, gjas15. Just a general question.)

MacBook Pro will be the high-end laptop from now on. Accept that. Maybe there's room for a 17 inch version but I highly doubt Apple will ship a portable that costs over 3000$.

By the way. Talking about prices... It's inequity beyong my grasp - simply unfair: The high-end MacBook Pro costs 2499$ in the US - that would be approx. 2065€ in Europe, right? No. Apple charges 2599€ for the standard 1.83 MBP in Germany... That is really annoying and provocative. See the difference. OVER 500€ !?!?! They are out of their minds in regards to this... Against my better judgement I will be getting one anyway . I don't need FW800 or PCMCIA and these beasties are teh sexy™ One will replace my last Gen iBook 12" which really is S-L-O-W from my point of view.

[Wickers]

Someone should change the thread title... If I read McBook one more time, I'm going to bust a McValue Meal all over this thread.
:twitch:

[gjas15]

Originally Posted by saschke Isn't it possible to use that Express /w34 slot in the near future for everything FW800? Everybody is complaining about the lack of features in the new MacBooks Pro but that new standard should solve some of the problems people are talking about like lack of cardreaders, FW800 etc. While I'm not completly sure on which site it was, one blog-author who talked to an Apple rep even stated that there is a s-video adapter included that fits on the DVI-Port. And why the *§!§"%" is everyone complaining about 5400 rpm drives while you can BTO 7200 rpm ones? (I'm not talking to you, gjas15. Just a general question.)

A 7200rpm 100GB drive basically equals the data transfer capability of a 120GB 5400rpm due to the differences in data density on the platters inside the HD (this especially apply's when talking about the smaller platters used in laptop drives, where the outer track of the HD is nowhere near as fast as a 3.5" desktop HD).
Without FW800 how would you connect 4 10,000rpm Raptors in a raid 0 set? A machine with the power of the Macbook will be hobbled when dealing with files larger than installed memory without an uberfast external connection for HD's. Too me, it seems like a slap in the face to professionals that have already started using fw800 for their external storage needs. Now they are forced to buy a third party adapter and take up the one expansion slot their laptop has just because Apple couldnt have used the backwards compatibility of fw800 and nixed the fw400 port instead.

If this wasn't a replacement for a pro notebook, this wouldn't even be an issue.

[Dorian Gray]

7200/5400 is 11% more than 120/100, so the 7200 drive would still be noticeably faster. This isn't the old comparison between the 60 GB/7200 Hitachi and a 100 GB/5400 drive, where the slow-spinning 100 GB drives were actually a good bit faster.

I see your point about FireWire 800, but I suspect less than 1% of all PowerBook owners ever used FireWire 800 for an external RAID. For a start, loads of PowerBook buyers merely surf the net and send emails, and secondly, the hardcore professionals who do use them for serious work probably also have a dedicated desktop computer for the heavy lifting. You can't use these big external disks on the move, which is what the MacBook Pro is designed for. So the only scenario where FireWire 800 would be needed would be for "desktop replacement" use. I don't think the MacBook Pro is designed as a desktop replacement. Maybe the undoubtedly forthcoming 17-inch version will have FireWire 800, though I doubt it. It hasn't really taken the market by storm.

[MacRonin]

I say the 17" MacBook Pro needs dual internal SATA HDDs, for a RAID , and FlashRAM holding OS X for booting...

;^p

[intlplby]

i know there are FW800 expresscards with two connections....... are there SATA expresscards

[saschke]

thanks for the info on data density
i will have to get that 7200 rpm drive

[lectro]

Yes, there are dual channel expressCard/34 SATA controlers. Since SATA is faster than Firewire 800, there's no need for this rarely-used technology to be dragged into the new batch of laptops. If there's truly a need to support your legacy firewire 800 devices, you can pick up an expressCard Firewire 800 interface.

ExpressCards are incredibly fast when compared to cardbus pc cards (like the difference between PCI and PCI-Express, hence the name). They're also much cheaper to manufacture, due to the flat card connector replacing oodles of tiny pins.

So you shouldn't have any problem finding a firewire 800 card to slide into your shiney new MacBook (I found this one by clicking the first link that google gave me: http://www.xterasys.com/e94b.htm - granted, it's the larger, expressCard/54 size, but the connectors are the same, so it's definately possible to make it smaller.)

[World Leader Pretend]

Maybe in the near future they will boot the OS off NAND memory instead of the HD. They would still have the hard drive for everything else, and continue with the DDR2, but use 3 different types of storage to run the laptop:

Data, Media, Documents, etc----> 100gig Hard Drive
OS X, Native Apps------------------> 10gig NAND
Everything can still access----------> 1gig DDR2

Make any sense??