[drewprops]

I hope they're red.


...

[dglow]

Originally Posted by Kickaha RISC, on the other hand, the principle behind ARM designs such as Apple Silicon, says keep the design simple, but streamlined and capable of inter core connectivity from day one…

Originally Posted by Kickaha This has literally been brewing for 20 years, but held back by the need to rely on Intel. Now that is dropping off rapidly, it'll be highly interesting to see what comes to fruition. Nobody right now has the groundwork laid like Apple. ... CISC winning out over RISC was a tragic misstep.

Originally Posted by Kickaha The philosophies remain though… clean design that is intended to be simple but scalable, or complexity that has diminishing returns. It’s a testament to the Intel and AMD engineers that they’ve been able to keep it going this long, but runway is running out.

My understanding is that RISC design principles won just about everywhere, and nearly every modern chip architecture leverages simple instructions and strategies like branch prediction and speculative execution in similar ways.

For both Intel and AMD today, x86/x64 instruction set compatibility means decoding those instructions into a simpler, private, RISC-like set which then executes in a very RISC-like manner. The decoders consume non-trivial amounts of power, so there's an efficiency hit that Apple avoids with ARM, but it's not the primary reason Apple Silicon is so vastly superior in performance-per-watt.

Originally Posted by chucker I don’t think there’s anything clean about ARM having an instruction specific to JavaScript.

It may not be clean but it's really, really smart. Laying down dedicated silicon to optimize something that's very frequently used? It's the same reasoning that leads Apple to put high-end media engines on even its A-series chips: people record a lot of video with their phones.

Originally Posted by Frank777 It will be interesting to watch if the Compute Module expansion rumours turn out to be true.

Agree completely. Compute modules might be the next step in the story that began with Apple putting an A13 into the Studio Display.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by dglow It may not be clean but it's really, really smart. Laying down dedicated silicon to optimize something that's very frequently used? It's the same reasoning that leads Apple to put high-end media engines on even its A-series chips: people record a lot of video with their phones.

Sure. But you can’t have it both ways. Either ARM is a clean and simple design that avoids legacy, or it’s one that embraces weird specializations to eke out more performance.

[dglow]

Originally Posted by chucker Sure. But you can’t have it both ways. Either ARM is a clean and simple design that avoids legacy, or it’s one that embraces weird specializations to eke out more performance.

Then fine – I don’t need my CPU to pass a purity test. Apple also added instructions to simulate x86’s memory model, which makes Rosetta emulation blazing fast compared to any other ARM chip. Legacy well-spent, I say.

[turtle]

So Apple is gonna make blades cool again?

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by turtle So Apple is gonna make blades cool again?

Not likely, I don’t see how Apple could go anywhere with blades. They dropped doing that for a reason, iCloud exists.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by dglow Then fine – I don’t need my CPU to pass a purity test. Apple also added instructions to simulate x86’s memory model, which makes Rosetta emulation blazing fast compared to any other ARM chip. Legacy well-spent, I say.

Agreed.

[PBMB]

Any news about the iMac? Despite its brand new design it stayed without update for too long.

It is more than one year that we have M2 portables, and now at 15-inches, however the iMac is still with the M1 chip more than two years after its release. I don't understand why. What Apple is waiting for to update it?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PBMB What Apple is waiting for to update it?

Probably disappointing sales.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by PBMB Any news about the iMac? Despite its brand new design it stayed without update for too long. It is more than one year that we have M2 portables, and now at 15-inches, however the iMac is still with the M1 chip more than two years after its release. I don't understand why. What Apple is waiting for to update it?

This one is easy. M3.

The M2 MacBook Pros and Mac Minis were released in January. The new M2 MacBook Air, Mac Studio and Mac Pro were just announced at WWDC.

The M3 is said to be a giant leap in performance. It's coming this fall and Apple will need a popular Mac to showcase it to the world.

The iMac line is the only candidate.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Frank777 This one is easy. M3. The M2 MacBook Pros and Mac Minis were released in January. The new M2 MacBook Air, Mac Studio and Mac Pro were just announced at WWDC. The M3 is said to be a giant leap in performance. It's coming this fall and Apple will need a popular Mac to showcase it to the world. The iMac line is the only candidate.

Maybe. I would bet the M3 gets introduced with the next Air.

[PBMB]

Originally Posted by Frank777 This one is easy. M3. The M2 MacBook Pros and Mac Minis were released in January. The new M2 MacBook Air, Mac Studio and Mac Pro were just announced at WWDC.

However Apple did not wait for the MacBook Air. Instead we have already two MacBook Air iterations on M2, with increase in display size this year. Apple could have treated the iMac in the same way as well, with a 24-inch M2 model last year and a 27-inch model this year (possibly M2 Pro). This simply did not happen and the iMac is stuck in M1 (not even M1 Pro, despite its size).

So, the M3 is definitely a factor, but I think chucker must be right about the disappointing sales (although I don't know if there is concrete evidence for this).

[Frank777]

I don't understand this rumour about a 30-inch prosumer iMac.

Yes, it would undoubtably be cool. But in my mind, you keep the iMac at 27-inches, which allows you economies of scale for the current Studio Display, bringing the price down to 'near-affordable' territory (for Apple gear, anyway.)

Then you introduce a 30-inch standalone for Pros to pair with the Mac Studio.

Why make the larger iMac compete directly against the Studio when you don't have to do that?

[psmith2.0]

I think Apple forgot they make an iMac.

Hasn’t been touched since April 2021. 26+ months, I’m sure the sales are poor. Who’s gonna pay $1,699+ for M1, 16GB RAM max when the entire lineup is M2-something or other, and 24/32GB RAM options/ceilings? Once the iMac is finally updated, it’ll enjoy strong attention/sales again, I’m sure. Unless Apple does something really stupid and unasked for, which is always a possibility (raise the price $300-400, still with 8GB base RAM, only offer it in Turd Brown, downgrade the display and/or camera in a noticeable, real way, etc. All things not out of the realm of possibility with this bunch.

“WiFi possible via an ootional AirPort card purchase, for $179?!?, at time of purchase. No user install after-the-fact?!”

Don’t laugh. That’s exactly the sort of thing I can imagine them doing, Just Because.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I think Apple forgot they make an iMac. Hasn’t been touched since April 2021. 26+ months, I’m sure the sales are poor.

Can't think of another explanation than poor sales at this point. They made a bold new design and then realized people weren't that into it.

I think it's just one of those "don't listen too much to what people tell you they want" things. They tell you they want a small phone, but then they don't. They tell you they want a colorful iMac, but then they don't.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Who’s gonna pay $1,699+ for M1, 16GB RAM max when the entire lineup is M2-something or other, and 24/32GB RAM options/ceilings?

Incidentally, that RAM max held me off impulse-buying one in 2021.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Once the iMac is finally updated, it’ll enjoy strong attention/sales again, I’m sure.

I dunno about that. If that were so, why didn't they update it last year? The M2 is twelve months old. At this point, the iMac might as well go straight to M3.

[chucker]

Anyway, Gurman says "over" 30 inches. But the iMac is now 4.5K. Not 4K, not 5K.

What if the next one is 5.5K? If we take the resolution just between 5K and 6K, that's 5568x3132. At 30 inches, that's 213 ppi, which is a tad low (but still OK). At 29 inches, it's 220 ppi, which would be a very Apple density. The Pro Display XDR is 218 ppi. The Stupid Display is, too. (If we try to aim for that exact number, it would be something like 29.3 inches.)

[Matsu]

In the CES thread I mentioned a few alternate ratios that could work for moving to even higher resolutions. Mostly ultrawide screens as a way of getting an even larger display while not affecting the eye-line - sort of fusing two side-by-side screens into one bezel. 32:9 (16x2):9 are starting to become sort of popular as "productivity" monitors. They're a little strange to my eye but popular with people viewing wide spreadsheets or doing side-by-side document review.

I think a 21:9 or a 2.39:1 (anamorphic) screen is a nicer middle ground for Audio-Visual content creation/viewing and supplanting a second display altogether. Keeping the same vertical height as a 27" screen and ~220ppi nets a 6720x2880 34.2" screen. Call it 7K3K? Probably wide enough skip a second screen for "office productivity" and still tall enough to keep image editing panels open with layers to one side and image library to the the other? Nice as music production DAW too...

Similarly stretching the 32" XDR to 21:9 would yield an aprox. 40" 7896x3384 "8K" display.

I don't see the latter for an iMac, but 21:9 could be interesting for a "Cinema" branded display.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker The M2 is twelve months old. At this point, the iMac might as well go straight to M3.

I think so. Surely they wouldn’t update it with the M2 just as the M3 is rolling out.

If it is low sales, I don’t know why unless it’s because of the colors? The design seems fine and about what should be expected after 9-10 years of the previous 21.5” and 27” silver/black models.

I guess it’s just a laptop world, with modern Airs having the power/capability of the most tricked-out iMacs from 4-6 years ago. Maybe the world doesn’t want/need iMacs anymore, with notebooks, phones and iPads being so capable (and portable).

Everything has its time. There was a period where the iPod ruled and we couldn’t imagine it going away. It did. Maybe Apple is sitting on a mountain of sales figures/survey results telling them not to waste too much time/effort on the iMac, regardless of chip, screen size or color options?

If this Vision stuff every fully takes root and takes off, Apple would rather just sell furre versions of those, where your “display” can be one entire wall in your living room, than any tradition AIO desktops anyway. That wouldn’t surprise me either, although I think that’s still quite a few years off.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I think so. Surely they wouldn’t update it with the M2 just as the M3 is rolling out. If it is low sales, I don’t know why unless it’s because of the colors? The design seems fine and about what should be expected after 9-10 years of the previous 21.5” and 27” silver/black models.

The design is awesome, IMHO.

The only question is how many people it's for. The Air is suddenly just as powerful (instead of limited compared to the iMac's CPU and GPU) and was already the default choice before. And at the higher end, there's now a mini with M2 Pro, and of course the Studio. I guess they overestimated the size of the niche.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I guess it’s just a laptop world, with modern Airs having the power/capability of the most tricked-out iMacs from 4-6 years ago. Maybe the world doesn’t want/need iMacs anymore, with notebooks, phones and iPads being so capable (and portable). Everything has its time. There was a period where the iPod ruled and we couldn’t imagine it going away. It did. Maybe Apple is sitting on a mountain of sales figures/survey results telling them not to waste too much time/effort on the iMac, regardless of chip, screen size or color options?

Yup.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 If this Vision stuff every fully takes root and takes off, Apple would rather just sell furre versions of those, where your “display” can be one entire wall in your living room, than any tradition AIO desktops anyway. That wouldn’t surprise me either, although I think that’s still quite a few years off.

I think that's the aspiration, yes. Much like the iPhone shoots for "what if it's just as thin sheet of glass", Vision Pro shoots for "what if you put on glasses like it's no big deal, but you got an instant massive virtual screen". A portable holodeck.

Both of those are still a little sci-fi, but they don't feel Star Trek's 300-ish years away.

[psmith2.0]

In 10 years, the MSc (and iPhone), as we know them, will probably be long gone.

We’ll probably all fake fringe/laugh over “how we used to carry those bulky phones around…what were we thinking?!?”

At one time, the Walkman was the end-all/be-all of music on the go.

[Matsu]

Maybe we are really past desktop computers now. Not just in the Apple world, rather in general. I haven’t had a desktop machine issued to me in a decade.

Maybe we’re also quickly moving past laptops too. After a few days playing with the kids new iPad Air myself, I’m considering if one couldn’t become my main machine for my writing and photo projects. The main issue might be available software payment/subscription solutions.

External storage and display seems mostly solved. I still need a little extra poke around the web to make sure that the file system doesn’t do anything universally weird when trying to save to external drives, and whether there are other issues on an app-by-app basis. I look forward to the assessments here of those way more knowledgeable than I.

Outside my own selfish wants there’s lots of little signs too. So many times when the Mrs or the boys want to show something they just AirPlay to the living room TV. Often the streaming App on iOS or through the web portal is delivered more seamlessly than the SmartTVs option.

Seems to me what’s needed may be a set of nice “premium” displays that give you a hub for charging and data, along with wireless connectivity, and speakers/mic/camera. Just walk up to your desktop display with the iPad in hand and the second screen comes alive with an extended desktop, your keyboard works, a mouse works, and/or you navigate and provide input directly from the iPad depending on preference and task, as in photo editing.

Apple’s displays may be a tad too pricey yet, and maybe a few more bridges to merge iOS and MacOS functionality are required...

[PB PM]

Different products for different uses really. iMacs are for people who don’t need a computer on the go. It used to be that notebooks were a compromise to get mobility, not so much these days unless you need maximum performance. These days a Mac Mini and an iPad get just as much done and give the best of both worlds.

That said if the headsets are good, why bother with either?

[Matsu]

Sometimes it seems like the uses are rapidly converging. An M silicon iPad can do quite a bit of heavy lifting (high res photo or 4K video editing are not out of the question) and having a direct screen interface can be something of an advantage for some kinds of artwork, music. Connecting an iPad to an external screen and swapping between mouse, keyboard, and touch as needed should be quite seamless at this point.

I might want to edit the detail of a photo on the iPad but look up and see the whole image on the docked screen.

I think any barriers are only software implementation at this point...

[PB PM]

Agreed.

[Kickaha]

Ditto.

Ironically, after two decades+ of laptop-as-primary (and usually my only machine) I'm seriously looking at a desktop + tablet, as PB PM states. A Mac Studio and iPad would do my well, I think. Most of the time I'm on the road it's light office work, not V3Ry SeRIus c0d1ng, so that would give me a relatively feather light road option and a beefier unit while I'm desk bound, which is most of the time these days.

I'm considering that instead of a new MBP. Going to keep considering, I think.

[Matsu]

But when do we get to iPad as primary/only device? Take it on the road and use it either with or without a keyboard. Come home, sit at desk, and enjoy all your extra desktop amenities: charging, wired or wireless connection to extra displays, storage, keyboard, mouse, etc...

[turtle]

I'm in the camp who is going to move from an MBP to a mini/Studio and iPad. I'm already using my iPad Pro (3rd gen) on the go while minimally unplugging my MBP. I really would be better served by a desktop and an iPad with good keyboard, trackpad would be nice.

[Frank777]

Maybe Apple will eventually revisit the PowerBook Duo concept with the iPad as the mobile part of the equation.

[drewprops]

I have a new tablet, meant to be my digital art playground, but I rarely touch it because I really hate the "giant iPhone" interface.

HATE it.

Perhaps I would use it more if I got a keyboard for it, but maybe NOT?


..

[turtle]

Originally Posted by drewprops I have a new tablet, meant to be my digital art playground, but I rarely touch it because I really hate the "giant iPhone" interface. HATE it. Perhaps I would use it more if I got a keyboard for it, but maybe NOT? ..

I always used mine for general things that didn't involve much typing. So games, apps for information with a good touch interface and again, minimal typing. I've had the keyboard folia case from Apple since near day one, but I always defaulted to going down to my office to do "real work" on my (docked) MBP rather than the keyboard.

I have the Pencil for it too, but I just about only use if for markup or super basic edits.

Then I wanted to spend less time in my office and started doing more with the keyboard. I still don't do power computing on it, but I'll even update scripts or other linux server management functions using Prompt. With Stage Manager and my iPad I'm able to multitask REALLY well now. This means I can easily switch between apps, have one full screen that I want or two iPhone Apps side by side even. Having Stage Manager has been a huge productivity boost for the iPad Pro so I can't see really needing an actual laptop for most uses now.