[kscherer]

Well, it's that time of year again. For all of you cycling nuts, this here is the 2007 Tour de France thread, in which you can post your favorites, gripes, wines, etc. Whose doing drugs, whose clean, whose blah, blah, blah!

I have some favorites:

Climber's Jersey - Michael Rasmussen or Thor Hushovd

Sprinter's Jersey - Robbie McEwan or Stuart O'grady (crazy Aussies! )

Yellow Jersey - David Zabriskie (Hey, I'm American and I can dream! Although I was pulling for Ivan Basso, but he's not riding this year )

Rookie's Jersey - ?? (Some new kid )

Druggie's Jersey - Floyd Landis (but he's not riding this year, so…? )

So, psycho bikers, what are your thoughts?

[curiousuburb]

Anybody who's not on some sort of performance enhancing drug? This time. Really?

[zippy]

I predict Lance Armstrong will win in a stunning come-from-out-of-nowhere feat that will be revered for all time. Especially since he will do it while pedaling backwards.

Steroid allegations will follow, but in the end he will be cleared.

When he dies, we will find out that he was actually a robot.

Maybe with lasers.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by zippy Maybe with lasers.

No! He never used lasers!

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by curiousuburb Anybody who's not on some sort of performance enhancing drug? This time. Really?

You know…Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich were not permitted to ride last year because someone thought they might be fixing. Turns out, neither of them was dirty. The Tour lost the two clear favorites, who were clean as a whistle! Then, the guy wins who failed both his A and B samples. It's sad when the clean guys are pulled and not given the shot they have clearly earned, only to watch a loaded guy win it all.

I wonder if that has any baring on their no-show this year?

[AWR]

Yellow Jersey: Levi or Vino.

Free Landis!!

London start today, I think.

[Luca]

Who fucking cares.

The Tour is a joke. I hope these steroid pumped cyclists get exactly what they deserve, which is a total lack of interest in the sport. If they want to use steroids to win, I hope it is at least an empty victory.

It's a shame because of all the fans out there, but to me it seems like there's not much left of the sport of cycling anymore anyway.

[SpecMode]

I didn't even know the Tour was going on right now. I guess that sort of proves Luca's point, though in all fairness I didn't pay much attention in past years even when I did know when it was.

[Bryson]

In a surreal move, the Tour de France starts in London this year. No, I don't understand either....

[Unch]

Originally Posted by Bryson In a surreal move, the Tour de France starts in London this year. No, I don't understand either....

It's had stages in other countries before, including England many years back.

I will be watching it this year, only because it's going past 2 mins from my flat and all the roads around where I live will be shut off, so I can't go do anything else. I don't think they've thought the route through properly as where it goes past me it will suddenly have to filter from a large dual-carridgeway into a tiny country lane with a road surface of questionable quality.

[Dorian Gray]

I was there this afternoon and it was fantastic. The crowds were unbelievable: probably a million people. Huge TV screens and speakers every few hundred metres, amazingly good public transport (they made some stations one-way, which worked brilliantly), discreet security that in no way interfered with the event, sun shining all day, wine and cheese on the grass. Absolutely stellar. It was amazing. Can't London have it next year too?

Originally Posted by kscherer Climber's Jersey - [...] Thor Hushovd

That would be pretty cool to see. Perhaps if all the climbers were struck by lightning?

Tom Boonen really hammered his way around the course, you could see the effort on his sweat-soaked face. He even got out of the saddle to sprint for the finish line, so I was slightly disappointed to see him get a time of 9:36. That's 46 seconds to make up to get the yellow jersey for entering his home country (Belgium) on Monday. Probably impossible.

Bradley Wiggins: man, there were a million hoarse voices urging him on as he went by, but it was all for naught. 4th place on the world stage is respectable but why oh why did he go so slowly around the corners? He must have been terrified of crashing! The Tour will never return to London for him again, so perhaps his caution was justified as otherwise he might not have finished, but I was so disappointed. His slow cadence style is also unbearable to watch. I'll have nightmares of lactic acid build-up tonight.

Fabian Cancellara said he'd win the Prologue yesterday and he went and did it by a disgusting margin. If he'd gone earlier he'd have taught the others how to corner. Bloody hell, he nearly hit the motorbikes because they couldn't take the sharp corners hard enough! I don't think those big bikes have been so close to the ground in their lives.

Big George got 3rd, which I'd be delighted to see had he not beaten Wiggins off the podium by a fraction of a second!

Originally Posted by kscherer Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich were not permitted to ride last year because someone thought they might be fixing. Turns out, neither of them was dirty. The Tour lost the two clear favorites, who were clean as a whistle!

Eh? A guiltier pair would be hard to find. Anyway, this year is drug-free so let's enjoy it!

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Luca Who fucking cares. The Tour is a joke. I hope these steroid pumped cyclists get exactly what they deserve, which is a total lack of interest in the sport. If they want to use steroids to win, I hope it is at least an empty victory. It's a shame because of all the fans out there, but to me it seems like there's not much left of the sport of cycling anymore anyway.

Dear Luca,

I agree with you completely. Cycling is a ridiculous sport that should be looked at in a negative light because of steroid allegations.

Your friends,
Mark McGwire, Bill Romanowski, and Justin Gatling






That's an outrageous statement to make. There always has been and always will be cheaters in every sport. It is the nature of the beast.

[Luca]

Hey, I think the same thing about baseball too. It pisses me off just as much regardless of the sport. Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it right, nor will I be able to just accept it and continue to be a fan.

I just hope enough people lose interest in baseball/cycling/whatever that the big wigs in charge of these sports begin to take notice. When their numbers start to take a dive, maybe they'll start trying to come up with reasons why. I don't have much hope, though.

But I guess you do have a point in that the majority of the people involved in such sports aren't cheating, it's just the media blowing the cheaters out of proportion. I guess, in this case, it worked. I've become too jaded to ever be able to watch a baseball game or cycling race again without thinking that the "best" participants are on the juice.

[kscherer]

I don't think any sport is completely clean, at any level. There are cheaters everywhere, at everything. As long as humans are involved, there will be cheating.

But, you know, something occurred to me the other day. I was reminiscing about Lance Armstrong's domination of the tour and a drastic realization hit me! He dominated simply because he was not juicing, when most of the other top competitors had been!

Think about it. Lance was never really phenomenal in any of the world's other premier races. World Championships, Olympics, Nationals, etc., even the other renowned tours of Europe. They were dominated by those riders who seem to fall into trouble a lot.

So I came up with a theory: Those other riders are training their bodies to rely on drugs (they dominated), while Lance trained his to rely on not taking drugs (he did not dominate). When the Tour came around, the other riders had to stop taking drugs in order to get clean. Their bodies, ever reliant on the juice, began to deteriorate in the days leading up to the race and no longer had that refined edge. In the meantime, Lance stomps his way through the crowd and dominates the Tour, as his body is not suffering from withdrawals, so to speak. The other riders cannot compete at their normal levels due to the lack of extra chemicals in their system, thus Lance cleaned house seven straight years.

Just a theory, but I find it funny that the next winner (Landis) failed his tests and there is huge controversy on the other two favorites (Basso and Ullrich, who weren't even in the race and yet were clean—that time).

Random thoughts from a random guy.

[curiousuburb]

I recall some coverage about the 'burn' per day of top riders during the Tour a few years back.
Stamina or some measure, not just hills or heartrate, but the detailed definition escapes me at the moment.

Most of the rest were 90-180 whatevers (BTUs? kcal? )
The top 4 were pushing 200.

Lance was 400.

Absolute mutant compared to all other humans, doping or not.

< now it's going to bug me trying to remember those lost details. >

[kscherer]

I'd be curious to see what those other guys' numbers look like in, say, September, when there is no pee-testing.

I guess what I'm getting at is something like this:

Who here wants to go head to head on a late-night project against some guy who is hyped up on meth or crack or something? But if you take that guys "help" away, eh sucks rocks, and you (the clean guy) can put him to shame.

[Moogs]

The Tour was a great thing once upon a time, but I agree with Luca basically. Then again, Barry Bonds does roids, but everyone still watches him anyway. The cheating fuck.

Long live HANK!

[kscherer]

I think that Lance Armstrong made the Tour a big thing. He's gone, now, and so is interest in the Tour. I don't think that drugs have much to do with it. People just don't have a hero anymore. And the hero who looked to replace Lance (Landis) dropped the ball, big time!

[Majost]

Originally Posted by kscherer I think that Lance Armstrong made the Tour a big thing in the United States. He's gone, now, and so is interest in the Tour in the United States. I don't think that drugs have much to do with it in the United States. People just don't have a hero anymore from the United States. And the hero who looked to replace Lance from the United States (Landis) dropped the ball, big time!

I don't have much of an international perspective on this, but that would be more correct, no? The Brits who have posted would seem to support that... do other Europeans/non-North-Americans here agree?

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Luca Hey, I think the same thing about baseball too. It pisses me off just as much regardless of the sport. Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it right, nor will I be able to just accept it and continue to be a fan. I just hope enough people lose interest in baseball/cycling/whatever that the big wigs in charge of these sports begin to take notice. When their numbers start to take a dive, maybe they'll start trying to come up with reasons why. I don't have much hope, though. But I guess you do have a point in that the majority of the people involved in such sports aren't cheating, it's just the media blowing the cheaters out of proportion. I guess, in this case, it worked. I've become too jaded to ever be able to watch a baseball game or cycling race again without thinking that the "best" participants are on the juice.

It is far from exclusive to these sports. HGH is the big one that goes through every sport. It isn't detectable with a urine sample.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Majost I don't have much of an international perspective on this, but that would be more correct, no? The Brits who have posted would seem to support that... do other Europeans/non-North-Americans here agree?

No. He brought international attention to the event.

The doping scandals have done more damage internationally than they have in the U.S. (where no one cares) anyway.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Moogs The Tour was a great thing once upon a time, but I agree with Luca basically. Then again, Barry Bonds does roids, but everyone still watches him anyway. The cheating fuck. Long live HANK!

I don't watch Barry Bonds. Actually, I don't really watch any baseball, since I can't. But if I were watching a game and Barry Bonds was in it, I'd switch it off or find a different game.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Luca I don't watch Barry Bonds. Actually, I don't really watch any baseball, since I can't. But if I were watching a game and Barry Bonds was in it, I'd switch it off or find a different game.

Unfortunately, if you wanted to watch a sport where no one was cheating, you wouldn't be watching any sports at all! At least not the kind that find their way to the TV screen.

I am a big fan of cycling and football, and there are cheaters in both sports, but I like to hold out hope for those athletes that are clean and show a great deal of character and discipline without breaking the rules. It is sad that a small percentage of cheats ruin the face of the sport for those who are truly giving their best. I was quite disappointed with Floyd Landis last year and even more disappointed with the screwed-up legal process that makes it so hard to get the truth out of anyone. He failed the damn tests and should be banned! If someone could prove Lance Armstrong cheated, he should be banned (and stripped of his winnings!) If my favorite quarterback (Ben Rothlisberger) cheated, he should also be banned. Otherwise, the sport is given a bad name. And the legal process is geared toward the money, which the cheaters seem to have plenty of ( ) and it should be banned!

As it stands right now, I hope this year's Tour is able to produce a non-doped winner, but thinking back to my doping theory, I doubt that will happen.

And I would tend to agree with Majost to a point. The Tour has far more recognition in Europe than it does here in the States, but still, Lance Armstrong placed a mark on it that no one else ever came close to.

[Dorian Gray]

FOUR MILLION people turned out to watch the Prologue and the 1st stage in England! So much for the notion that there wouldn't be enough interest in the UK. Christian Prudhomme, who organises the Tour, said this: "It was a colossal popular success. It is not possible for us not to return."

That was a crazy race today. 236.5 km, the longest stage, and two nutters, Vogondy (for Agritubel) and Ladagnous (Française Des Jeux) decided to try an escape early on. I wonder what went through their minds immediately after having made the successful escape, knowing the horrendous agony they'd have to suffer in the next few hours, and probably for nothing. Anyway, they worked up a 13-minute lead for a while. Then Augé (for Cofidis) and Willems (Liquigas) bridged the gap with 60 km to go, and what a race that made!

After six and a half hours in the saddle, the peloton STILL hadn't caught the breakaway, even though the sprinters' teams had been working their asses off. Then, with 750 metres to go, Cancellara launched himself off the front, still behind the escape group. He passed the escapees with just 500 metres to go, and went by so quickly that no-one could get on his wheel (Cancellara hadn't worked all day so this isn't such a surprise). Then when the sprinters hit the pedal in earnest, no-one could catch Cancellara. Check out what Steegmans (Boonen's main lead-out man who outgunned Boonen yesterday) had to say about the sprint:

"We lost a lot of energy to catch those guys. Tom [Boonen] lost my wheel, after that I lost the wheel of Steven De Jongh. [...] On the pavé I could not get my way back to the front because of my crash."

This makes me wonder: has Boonen lost it? He's a much better stage racer than he was, but has that adaptation eroded his anaerobic power? Yesterday he could barely hang onto Steegmans' wheel and today he actually lost it. Very strange.

Cancellara's second stage win:



Nail-biting stuff to the very end! Great race. But spare a thought for the early breakaway, whose members must be feeling pretty sorry for themselves tonight!

[kscherer]

Lot of work. Power to them.

Although it's rare that an early breakaway wins the race. They expend too much energy early and have little help. The Peloton, meanwhile, has the manpower behind it to close the gap.

[Partial]

That's 146 miles. That is a ton. When I ride for an hour, I normally knock off about 15 miles. They're probably doing about 30 an hour.

Those guys are in incredible shape.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by kscherer I am a big fan of cycling and football, and there are cheaters in both sports, but I like to hold out hope for those athletes that are clean and show a great deal of character and discipline without breaking the rules. It is sad that a small percentage of cheats ruin the face of the sport for those who are truly giving their best. I was quite disappointed with Floyd Landis last year and even more disappointed with the screwed-up legal process that makes it so hard to get the truth out of anyone. He failed the damn tests and should be banned! If someone could prove Lance Armstrong cheated, he should be banned (and stripped of his winnings!) If my favorite quarterback (Ben Rothlisberger) cheated, he should also be banned. Otherwise, the sport is given a bad name. And the legal process is geared toward the money, which the cheaters seem to have plenty of ( ) and it should be banned!

I agree with this. My biggest criticism of sports isn't that people cheat (while I hate the idea that they do, it's pretty much a fact of the game that can't be changed), it's that the authorities don't do anything about it when they find out. If prominent athletes were banned from the sport for cheating, I guarantee fewer people would try. As it stands, the typical policy for when they find out someone was doping is to say, "they were doping," and then not do anything about it at all.

If sports officials took a much more hardline stance against these sorts of things, I'd feel much more comfortable watching and enjoying these sports.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 That's 146 miles. That is a ton. When I ride for an hour, I normally knock off about 15 miles. They're probably doing about 30 an hour. Those guys are in incredible shape.

Just wait... some of these guys average 24 mph up 20% grades. Both ways!

[digitalprimate]

Not really into cycling, but is it okay if I brag that I live in the same small village as ozzie Robbie McEwen? :-)

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by digitalprimate Not really into cycling, but is it okay if I brag that I live in the same small village as ozzie Robbie McEwen? :-)

I find it entertaining that you guys refer to them as villages!