[Luca]

Meh... I don't think murbot ever tries to be classy.

[kretara]

Move along!
Nothing to see here but a person caught up in an ethical delima of their own construction.

[windowsblowsass]

theres going to have to be some kind of toranament at this rate

this is getting out of control

[Luca]

This is really out of control now...

Lockinated.

EDIT: Damn! Circumvented by alcimedes' l33tness!!!

[murbot]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh You are just mean.

"If you're a retard I hate you, if you're gay I hate you, and if you're a Muslim, well, I kind of hate you..."

Damn, why can't I find your song so I can link it up!!

[alcimedes]

places like think secret exist as a clearinghouse for rumors.

it's an easy way to have people go to a central source and pass on the information they've learned.

keep in mind that some people will have little bits of information, which by themselves are not worth all that much. however, when combined with all bits of information can provide a good idea of future products etc.

besides which, Nick acts as everyone's bullshit filter. in case you haven't read any future hardware/software type threads lately, you might notice that all sorts of posts are full of "inside" info.

yet TS seems to post amazingly accurate information. that's because Nick has the trust of sources, the resources to put their information to good use and pass it along to us, all while keeping the crap from making it to the front pages.

[alcimedes]

*whistles*

[DaveGee]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh I am here to discuss, and if information is leaked, I'll look at it. I just wish there would be more responsible ways of obtaining "inside information." Why can't the sources just say it directly, instead of giving it to a middle-man, who ends up reaping the benefits...

So said in another way... You don't mind eating the hamburger or wearing the leather belt and shoes but at the same time you don't want to kill the cow yourself nor do you want anyone else to profit from the cows death. If only we could teach the cows to commit Hara kiri - that would solve everything!

"responsible ways" of obtaining "inside information" No comment but this really made me

"Why can't the sources just say it directly" - Simple! Would you want to loose your job and sole means of supporting your family just so you could publicly leak NDA'd insider information? I know I wouldn't! Most of this stuff comes either 2nd hand twice removed (friend of a friend of a friend who's Uncle works at Apple) or from someone that feels "insert_nda_info" is starting to become common knowledge via multiple locations and bunches of people and thus they can safely leak the info to someone like Nick without too much risk.

NDA breakers are an interesting bunch... As much as I like rumors (even the wishful ones) I'd NEVER leak something if I were under NDA - I know me, I'd get caught.... No doubt about it. I'm just lucky like that.

Dave

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by murbot "If you're a retard I hate you, if you're gay I hate you, and if you're a Muslim, well, I kind of hate you..." Damn, why can't I find your song so I can link it up!!

Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?

Hey man, alcimedes unlocked this thread along with a level-headed explanation. I'm hoping we can keep it on track, so please don't derail it again.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by Luca Hey man, alcimedes unlocked this thread along with a level-headed explanation. I'm hoping we can keep it on track, so please don't derail it again.

yeah bitch!

[Messiahtosh]

[murbot]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Ever heard of parody? So I guess you're touchy all of the sudden?

I can't stand to see innocent people ridiculed and insulted. I just won't stand for it, asshole.

[Messiahtosh]

[AirSluf]

Ye reap what ye sows...

As to Nick (or anyone else) publishing material which a company (say Apple for example) holds as trade secret: the courts hold that once information is in the open, it is no longer a secret and further disseminating it is quite legal and therefore mostly beyond the ethical question as well. The SINGLE exception to this is if an entity is directly involved in creating the leak, such as committing/commissioning a specific illegal act to obtain the secret. It also means that once something is posted anywhere public on the internet, it is no longer secret in the eyes of the court and the only folks legally responsible would be those who did something illegal--like Worker Bee--not those who reported on it.

If a source comes to you without you being part of an illegal action you are legally in the clear. That does not protect reporting media from the expense of legal defense when pressured by a company who has lost control of it's secret and is why Apple is so successful with its cease and desist letters--even though the publisher would win (unless they commissioned an illegal leak) it is too expensive to fight off for small organizations.

Given that, the self righteous attitude Messiahtosh displays in judging Nick is unjustified.

Dude, you can censor and govern your own lifestyle however you want and feel happy with, but don't apply your artificially restrained legal and moral standards to other people in public judgment. Thats just bad form and impolite.

[Messiahtosh]

I'll judge what is bad form and impolite.

[709]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh That conversation left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

So does this thread.

*Just* when I think you might have a friggin clue....you post this self-masturbatory shite. Get over yourself.

[709]

Gah.

Now that I've read the entire thread with your 'responses' and re-read your initial conversation with TS...

You get a big fat:






JesusGod. Go outside and buy a big beltbuckle or something.

[psmith2.0]

Chris, you're an odd duck, and perversely fascinating.

You vacillate wildly between moments of borderline brilliance and staggering normalcy, then you go and throw a firecracker in it, and post the weirdest things with the weirdest premise and hook.



Part of me wonders if you're like a digital, web-based Phil Hendrie, and the joke is all on us.



These shaky arguments and all just seem to invite pile-ons.

Got a moral issue or ethical problem with rumor sites? Then don't read and support them. Otherwise you're engaging in a bit of a "I really hate crime, and after I pistol-whip this motherfucker and take his wallet, I'll explain why...".



Personally, I don't have a problem with you. A nice guy, we chat and "converse" via the boards. But I gotta hand it to you...probably the most polarizing, can't-get-a-handle-on person I've ever run across.

Whether that's by design or not is still up in the air...



I will say this: it's funny as hell to sit back and watch everyone respond, and enjoy a little mini-brawl. One thing's for certain...a good time and lively discussion is guaranteed for one and all. Nice to put yourself on the chopping block time and again!

[Escher]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Maybe so, but I think it is unethical.

So, Messiahtosh, why don't you ride the hell out of here on your high horse?

Kids....

Or should I call you a hypocrite or schizophrenic?

Escher

PS: Autsch. That hook with your flame bait left a bad taste (and tear) in my mouth.

[LoCash]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh That he gets his money and his news from people who break laws.

I haven't read through the whole thread to see if this was clarified, but the people aren't breaking any "laws", they're breaking a non-disclosure agreement. And he doesn't get his money from the people breaking that agreement, nor does he pay them. He gets money from the people that choose to advertise on his site. His sources are protected because the law says that they are.

It's nice to think that we all possess some higher moral superiority and can therefore go around telling off the publisher of a rumors site that he is not acting in good faith. When you stop to think about it though, I'm sure you've committed more morally and ethically heinous atrocities towards humanity than Nick has. It's really a pretty petty and ridiculous argument you brought up with Nick, and it's kind of embarrassing that one of our long time members was the one to do it.

Your reading his site actually makes him money that money, and legally, so before calling the kettle black next time, check the mirror to make sure you're not the pot.

[AirSluf]

Originally Posted by LoCash I haven't read through the whole thread to see if this was clarified, but the people aren't breaking any "laws", they're breaking a non-disclosure agreement. And he doesn't get his money from the people breaking that agreement, nor does he pay them. He gets money from the people that choose to advertise on his site. His sources are protected because the law says that they are. <snip>

Well, his sources may or may not be protected legally. Depends on where they got their information.

Breaking an NDA can theoretically be followed down the path of industrial espionage, which is really a form of fraud and therefore criminally illegal as well as civilly liable--re Worker Bee. For example, the old AI.com wasn't a source, just a repeater of information that came to them without NDA strings attached to AI.com directly. The source was at risk and did pay the price, just as Nick's sources could if the sources overstepped certain bounds and he blatantly hosed them over by passing along incriminating info. But I doubt he will as that would dry up the sources real quick.

There is a HUGE difference in legal protection for the reporter, which the source does not have if it is uncovered.

[LoCash]

ah, so listen to AirSluf on that, not me

[drewprops]

Congratulations Messiahtosh, you just won the Official Dipshit award for the month. What a dumbass thread. Just stop the car and walk away now.

I'm serious. Citizens' Arrest! Citizen's Arrest!

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Chris, you're an odd duck, and perversely fascinating. You vacillate wildly between moments of borderline brilliance and staggering normalcy, then you go and throw a firecracker in it, and post the weirdest things with the weirdest premise and hook. Part of me wonders if you're like a digital, web-based Phil Hendrie, and the joke is all on us. These shaky arguments and all just seem to invite pile-ons. Got a moral issue or ethical problem with rumor sites? Then don't read and support them. Otherwise you're engaging in a bit of a "I really hate crime, and after I pistol-whip this motherfucker and take his wallet, I'll explain why...". Personally, I don't have a problem with you. A nice guy, we chat and "converse" via the boards. But I gotta hand it to you...probably the most polarizing, can't-get-a-handle-on person I've ever run across. Whether that's by design or not is still up in the air... I will say this: it's funny as hell to sit back and watch everyone respond, and enjoy a little mini-brawl. One thing's for certain...a good time and lively discussion is guaranteed for one and all. Nice to put yourself on the chopping block time and again!

Have you ever seen the movie, "Man on the Moon"? I have.

[Moogs]

Are you likening yourself to Andy Kaufman?

Anyway, "Nick" is a good guy. I've corresponded with him on a couple of occasions about non-rumor related stuff and he's a straight shooter. Your whole "profit" argument is kind of ridiculous considering that it's doubtful his income from ad banners and donations even covers his hosting expenses and time required to keep the site updated every day....

You speak as if he's made a cottage industry out of posting rumors and Apple news tidbits. Either way, I for one see nothing wrong at all with what he's doing. Certainly its legal both in terms of media law (which I know a decent amount about) and copyright laws.

I think you just like it when people contradict you. I can tell from your original post that you got a kick out of egging Nick on when he was clearly trying to say "goodbye!" to you.

[SKMDC]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Have you ever seen the movie, "Man on the Moon"? I have.

ah so it's all a mad con eh?

that makes you a contemptuous asshole instead of just an asshole.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by superkaratemonkeydeathcar ah so it's all a mad con eh? that makes you a contemptuous asshole instead of just an asshole.

If those are the options, I guess so.

[FFL]

Mouthing off while obviously not having a clue makes you amusing... but pronouncing holier-than-thou judgments of people who were in this business when you were still taking naps on blankets in kindergarten, makes you amusing (in a Darwin Awards kinda way, in case you thought that was something to be proud of), pathetic, and obnoxious, all at the same time. If you really weren't out to push people's buttons, then you wouldn't keep starting such moronic threads.

I would say I think you'd fit in better on the previous Think Secret boards than here (I bet you'd have a really kewl avatar!!), but I wouldn't want to insult them like that.

[FFL]

Originally Posted by Moogs I think you just like it when people contradict you. I can tell from your original post that you got a kick out of egging Nick on when he was clearly trying to say "goodbye!" to you.

That sounds like a classic textbook definition of a Troll to me. And it sounds pretty accurate as well.