[turtle]

My mom's MBP has been intermittently shutting off. This is the same symptom my wife's MB had early on. No KP or even an error of any type, just shuts off cold. All firmware and software updates have been run. I've repaired permissions and other basics. I still haven't reset the PMU, but it doesn't seem like that's the issue. This really seems like the thermal overload protection is kicking in and dropping the system completely.

I'm planning to take it back the Tidewater with me and drop by the GB in Norfolk so they can look at it. To me it seems like I'll get better care that way rather than shipping it off to Apple via the 800 number. It's the first run of the new MBP with Intel and it does have APP on it too. Any other ideas for me? Or do you think I'm doing this right?

[turtle]

So far the only way we have recreated it is to play iTunes for over two hours straight using the built-in speakers and it shut off. I'm working on round two right now and it's been over two hours but hasn't cut off yet.

[turtle]

So playing iTunes ended up not allowing me to recreate the shut down. I have installed Folding@Home on here to really put the CPU through the works. I needed to find a temp monitor that was Leopard friendly since I just updated the MBP to 10.5.1 and CoreDuo no longer worked. I found this one and it seems to be doing fine.

My mom let me take the MBP home with me and so I'll have to ship it back after repairs are done. I left her my Dell as a loaner. (Think "the loaner" from Jim Carrey's 'The Mask'.) Anyway, I'm trying to figure out something to be able to give the GB at the local retail store more than just "it intermittently shuts down" as a symptom. My MB had an issue with the thermal paste being wrong and it was a first run MB. This MBP is also a first run machine. Could it be the same issue?

Is there a log file I can look at when it does shut off that will give some clues or insight? Right now the CPU A temp is reading 179.6 DegF with my Memory Controller reading 147.2 DegF. I have blown out the rear vents with dusting air and it didn't make a difference with the heat.

This machine has been doing it the entire time my mom has owned it, but now it has finally driven her to being read to sell the machine and get a PC again (I just got her to switch with this machine). Apparently it has "stepped up" the frequency of shut downs as compared to the first year.

[RobUSVI]

> Is there a log file I can look at when it does shut off that will give some clues or insight?

Open the console application (in Applications/Utilities) and look through the various log files. If the computer shutdown due to a thermal event, it will be logged. (Look through all the various logs, not just the default one. Click on the "log list" icon to get a list of available log files.)

Rather than heat, this could be some kind of odd battery issue. Are you testing both with and without the AC Adapter plugged in? Make certain that all firmware updates have been applied.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by RobUSVI > Is there a log file I can look at when it does shut off that will give some clues or insight? Open the console application (in Applications/Utilities) and look through the various log files. If the computer shutdown due to a thermal event, it will be logged. (Look through all the various logs, not just the default one. Click on the "log list" icon to get a list of available log files.) Rather than heat, this could be some kind of odd battery issue. Are you testing both with and without the AC Adapter plugged in? Make certain that all firmware updates have been applied.

Thanks for the tip on the log files. I'll look into them the next time it crashes and I'll see what I can find that might be in there already.

I have only been doing it with A/C power because my mom only uses it with A/C adapter rather than being mobile. I can try messing around on battery some too though.

[turtle]

Well, I never did get it to shut down again for me but took it to my local Apple Store and dropped it off for testing and repair on the 6th.

I got called today to pick it up without explanation of what work was done. After getting there I got the Genius to tell me what they did to it. The one working behind the counter was the one who worked on mine. They condemned the logic board and gave me a new one but now my temp has gone from 180DegF to 211DegF! When I was at the store I asked what the temp was now and I was told it only got to about 150DegF. Seems to be a little different now.

They installed iStat Pro to see the temps and now the other temp monitor doesn't work. I just deleted it since iStat works fine.

They did give me and extra battery though. I had to send my mom's old one in because of the warranty replacement on it. So when I dropped off the MBP at the Apple Store I gave it to them without the battery. When they returned it to me it contained a brand new battery! Shame I can't keep it.

I'm going to have to stop into the store again now with the machine to see about getting this temp issue corrected again and while I'm there I'll give them the battery back since I got the one from my phoned in DIY repair.

They were nice enough to give me the power cord for the A/C adapter for free though. I showed where it had been crimped in a recliner and the wires were exposed. Asked to buy a replacement and was told it was on the house because "we have plenty of them back there".

Seems a shame to me that they had my machine for a week and replaced the logic board but my temps are still excessive. At least they offered me some work (if I get my Apple Cert) repairing their older machines they don't want to do in house. I told them about my beefed up Key Line Clamshell and was immediately offered the work. Seems to them it was the worst to work on and if I could "work on it then I can work on anything".

[turtle]

Not a good sign:


I also noticed that a few other graphics glitches have happened since getting this machine back. I can't very well send this back to my mom like this.


Anyone need some water boiled?

[turtle]

No real shock here, it did a thermal shutdown at 1:15 AM. Where is the log file I'm supposed to be able to view for the crash info?

[turtle]

So would 241DegF be considered absurdly high?


I'm trying to get an appointment to drop off my system again but I just can't get an opening. The GB here in Norfolk stays packed so I'm now just having to bide my time until I can get it back in there.

[PB PM]

That is rather high, even at max load for long periods of time, meaning almost all day, (in 31ºC/87ºF room temperatures) my MBP never goes over 80ºC/177ºF for long. I believe the Core Duo family is rated to run at up to 100ºC/212ºF before it starts to overheat, and since your machine is running well above that threshold I'm surprised the CPU hasn't melted down!

[turtle]

Originally Posted by PB PM That is rather high, even at max load for long periods of time, meaning almost all day, (in 31ºC/87ºF room temperatures) my MBP never goes over 80ºC/177ºF for long. I believe the Core Duo family is rated to run at up to 100ºC/212ºF before it starts to overheat, and since your machine is running well above that threshold I'm surprised the CPU hasn't melted down!

I think it did melt down actually. After posting that temp it went up to 243DegF. Then, moments later, the machine shutdown due to the heat. Now I can only get to the gray Apple logo before it shuts back down. I've tried to get it going a few times but it seems to be the same response. Such a shame too, maybe I'll get a C2D model now?

I have a full backup thanks to Time Machine so I'm not worried about the data loss at all. I'm gonna see if I can get it booted again too. I managed to get an appointment for wednesday to drop off the machine too.

[Yonzie]

That's almost 120˚C... I'd freak out if my box went past 70˚C in anything but Intel's custom-made CPU heater application... Seriously, the fans must have blown like mad at that point...
Maybe they forgot to apply thermal grease? Or they didn't tighten the screws for the heatsink?

[turtle]

Well, I just tried to boot it again three times.

First time the sleep indicator lit and the SuperDrive spun and then the machine shut down before the monitor gave any indication of life.

Second time was the same only the sleep indicator never lit.

Third time was just like the first except it made it to the chime and the screen backlight powered up for a split second before it shutdown again.

Yep, I think it's toast ladies and gents. I could try to reset the PMU (which worked the last time) but I want to make sure it's very obvious that the machine needs care before going to the store Wednesday.

[LudwigVan]

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with your mom's MBP. Despite these circumstances, I would like to thank you for mentioning iStat Pro up-thread. I've just downloaded the widget and am running it now--a very nifty tool.

[turtle]

Thanks for the sympathies.

Yeah, iStat Pro is a pretty good widget in my book too! I'm glad they put it on there. I had installed iStat Nano installed but it doesn't do as much as Pro does. Very good widget compared to the older one I used.

[turtle]

Screen shot at 243DegF.


So help me out with this one, where did my temps go?

I reset the SMC (held the power button down until the sleep light started flashing and the system rebooted) and everything appears fine. However, I now no longer have the ability to see my temps in iStat for anything other than Bottom Case and HDD.


I've tried to uninstall iStat and reinstall it but it does nothing...though I haven't tried to uninstall and then reboot.

Edit: Reboot didn't work.

[LudwigVan]

Everything is still checkmarked in the settings for iStat, specifically in "Temps" under the "Display" tab?

[turtle]

There is no other option actually.

[turtle]

This is an interesting find, if I shut down the computer I can only get it to turn on by holding down the power button until it resets.

[PB PM]

Sounds like there has been some serious meltage in there for the sensors to get waxed like that. The original Core Duo has a terrible reputation for heat problems (in MBPs and PC notebooks alike).

[turtle]

I meant to post here to update with the fact that I had to return to the Apple store to drop off the MBP again. This was last week on the 16th. They kinda got excited when I was able to show them my screen capture with a 243DegF CPU temp!


So after showing this and having it overheat and turn off for the Genius they decided that it was beyond their scope and said they would have to send it off to the "depot" for work. I asked when I would get it back and was told they don't know. I asked what would happen if I get it back and it's still running too hot. I was told to call AppleCare and tell them about the issues and get them to replace the machine. I'm sort of hoping this happens.

[PB PM]

I hope so for your sake. The original Core Duo MBPs were troublesome machines, that ran rather hot (at least all reports I've read, have lead me to believe so).

[turtle]

So now I'm a little disgruntled. I dropped of the MBP at the store on the 16th but it didn't even get listed as under repair until the 25th. It was shipped to the depot on the 28th. Repairs were completed on the 28th and it was shipped back to the store on the 28th. It was signed for at the store at 11:58AM on the 29th. I still haven't been given a phone call to let me know that I can pick it up yet.

I'm going to be in the area so I might just stop by the store and see what's up with this.

[turtle]

Ok, I'm a little pissed now. The jerks at the depot in Texas said it was my thrid party RAM and removed it while returning it to the Apple Store. I got a call a few minutes ago from the Genius Admin worker giving me the details of this.

The bright note is that wen she told me they said it was the RAM and I called B.S. th reply was "yeaaah, that's why we are running tests on it again and will have it finished tomorrow we hope. You will definitely hear back from us either way!"

We'll see what te result is and I'll post back. How could they possibly say the overheating was caused by thrid party RAM!?

[turtle]

I got the call from the Apple store today telling me that the laptop is ready to pick up and that they are donating me 1GB of Apple RAM since they can't duplicate the problem. They also said they'd never heard of RAM causing overheating.

But, since they can't recreate the overheating issue they are giving me the RAM (512MB x 2) to limp me along until I can get replacements from OWC for the two that seem to be bad according to them. The Genius' are really scratching their heads too.

So can RAM really cause a system to overheat? I'll find out when I get back there and run it through my paces. They use a Terminal command to max the CPU, I use F@H and iTunes video playback with Parallels for good measure. You know, real world stuff.

[Yonzie]

Use Boot Camp (or Parallels maybe?), run Intel's Thermal Analysis Tool. This gets my CPU temps +5C compared to Orthos (SuperPi) within the first minute, and almost +10C over time. If you like it hot, this is what you need.

[PB PM]

Intel's Thermal Analysis tool is good, because you can run the CPUs a different levels and see the changes in temperature based on load.

[turtle]

Will it work the same with Parallels?

Edit: Nope, it doesn't work in Parallels. Is there a Mac software like this?

[PB PM]

No. Honestly I'm surprised Intel hasn't made a OSX version.

[turtle]

So here I sit at the Apple store testing it out and it's staying at about 180DegF. I'm guessing that it's only staying this low because it's so freaking slow! Cutting the RAM in half really makes for a crappy MBP!