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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-02-15, 14:37

What if I'm sick that day?
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-15, 14:44

I’d like to see Alfred have a larger role. Jeremy Irons is always good, and his Alfred is very hands-on (remotely piloting stuff, tech savvy, etc.). More of an equal, behind-the-scenes partner to Bruce/Batman. I did think that was a neat take on the character. I didn’t like the Nolan version...that was just Michael Caine being Michael Caine (and I like Michael Caine). But the actor overrode the role there, IMO.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-16, 14:56

Years ago, I saw an animated Justice League movie on Netflix and it was really, really good. It dealt with the introduction of Aqua-Man and some other plot elements, but I was completely hooked and entertained. I think it was from Bruce Timm and that bunch who put out that animated Batman series in the 90's. They eventually did Justice League stuff, and this one played out like an actual movie, and you forgot you were watching a cartoon after a while.

Why can't they do stuff like that on these big live-action movies? It was a cool story, and the voice acting, writing/dialogue, plot, action, humor, etc. were all top-notch. There was nothing "cartoon-y" about it. I've not seen them all, but those were some good shows. They also had Green Lantern and Hawkman in the mix, along with that Martian guy, on some of the ones I've watched. They're all really well done, the ones I've seen.

PS - I see where Rosario Dawson voiced Wonder Woman on a bunch of them, so...yeah. She's the genre queen, with her fingers in all the cool pies...Sin City, DC/Justice League animation, Robot Chicken, the Daredevil/Marvel TV stuff, those Lego Batman movies, some of those Kevin Smith things, now Star Wars. She just wakes up effortlessly cool, doesn't she? Throws in with all the cool projects, does the work, is widely adored/respected for her work in that stuff, seems to sidestep drama/trouble, stays steadily employed with interesting, neat projects (check out her IMDb page), etc.

Gina C., take notes...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 15:36

...and on we continue with the "how they became a (misunderstood) evil villain" origin stories (Maleficent, Joker, Darth Vader if you wanna go back that far, etc.).

This time it's Cruella de Vil's turn.



I get an overall sense of "unasked for" and "trying way too hard" from this.

But I'm not sure that's the vibe Disney's looking to put out. It doesn't seem particularly kid-friendly (1970's punk-era London, from the synopsis I read), but they're probably not wanting the dads sitting there with impure thoughts either. And if they're anything like me watching this trailer, they're gonna.

Trying to recreate that Maleficent thing (make an iconic Disney villainess bangable for modern, forward-thinking audiences).

Way to go, Disney!

Without the 101 cute puppies, I'm not quite sure why this even exists. And with things they way they are now, I doubt it's going to have a big theatrical release and make any sort of splash on that front...the multiplex, for the time being, is in a coma; whether it ever recovers is anyone's guess at the moment. I'm betting it hits Disney+ if things don't improve on the pandemic front in the next few months.

Those of you in the UK, how's her accent? Passable? Horrible? Amazing? I can't tell...I don't have an ear for that sort of thing...she just sounds "from England" to me, but I wouldn't know the way someone from there would.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2021-02-17, 15:56

I'd rate the accent as..passable, maybe even pretty good. It's not *quite* right, but better than most American actors manage...

The movie has a bit of a "Joker" vibe to me - Joker meets the Devil Wears Prada, maybe? I think painting Cruella De Ville as "misunderstood" is going to be a hard sell, even with the mean barking Dalmatians.

For something a bit smaller, we watched "Baby Done" last night. It was pretty good - Rose Matefeo is good in it, but they made the same mistake a lot of movies do - in order to inject "drama" they needed the main character to behave so badly that I lost sympathy for them.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 16:04

It's very Joker-y to me, where you can see someone actually slowly coming unglued, partly because of those around them. I hated that movie, but they did a good job of painting a very Travis Bickle-like picture of how someone gets the way he did. But, by the final act, you just want him dead because he's become far worse than anyone else in his orbit. I needed a shower after Joker. That was a one-and-done viewing for me.

I wouldn't think Maleficent or Joker would've been painted the way they were, so I see no reason why de Vil won't be either. That Maleficent movie made her quite sympathetic at times, and you almost felt sorry for her. I was not expecting that ("Hey, I'm trying to lust after Ms. Jolie over here...do you mind?"). And the same with Joker. So if they can do that to those two, I'm sure there will be some shedding a tear for poor punk princess Cruella.

I guarantee you, she'll get the same treatment as Maleficent, to where you come away going "ah, okay...now it all makes sense. She's really not evil by choice", etc.

Revisionist Disney, trying their best to de-asshole everyone, for a kinder, gentler society.

"Hey, what stylish-minded woman wouldn't want a coat made of puppies? She was, after all, a slave to the fashion whims of her time, people."
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-02-17, 16:20

Post-Modern storytelling, in which the protagonist is complex and not a 1930s Good vs Evil stereotype, has been at work in Hollywood for 20 years now. Without it we wouldn't have Tony Soprano or Walter White. I'd much rather watch those characters than one-dimensional 80s movie bad guys. Do I want to see Disney bad guys given this treatment? I really don't care?


...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 16:23

I know.

Speaking of Tony Soprano, there's some sort of pending origin story (movie or series?) about him on the horizon as well. I think mainly centering around his dad and Uncle Junior, but I know a younger (teenage?) Tony factors in as well. I've read a few things about it. "Saints of" something...New Jersey? Or some city name.

That was a great show, one of the best ever made. I know all about Tony and Walter, don't worry.

I just think these trends hitting at once are a little funny. These "villain origin stories" weren't a thing, until they were. And, a few years from now, it'll be played out and on to something else. That's why I'm betting we're in for quite a few more before the milk runs dry. I had no idea a Cruella de Vil, pre-puppy, movie was coming. It surprised me this morning, showing up in my news listing/feed. I did a double-take when I saw the thumbnail/headline.

Disney has a lot to pull from, if they want...Scar, Ursula, various witches, the hunter who shot Bambi's mom, etc.

And I still like my 1930's good/evil and black/white stuff (it's why I enjoy Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Rocketeer and stuff like that, as well as that space move from 1977). Being clear-cut and obvious isn't automatically a bad thing either. I can, and do, appreciate both. There's room for it all, done well (The Sopranos, Taxi Driver). I love Taxi Driver as much as I hate Joker, which is weird since they're kinda similar in many ways. But one works for me, one just doesn't. *shrug*

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-02-17 at 16:35.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 16:59

How do you feel about Falling Down.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 17:23

Why? The Travis Bickle-y parallels of someone fed up with everything around him, etc.? I kinda view those two in a similar way, but the time/location couldn't be more different (90's west coast vs. 70's NYC). And, unlike Bickle, Douglas' character had a family (estranged, yes, but a family), a good job, etc. so it was probably a farther fall for him. Bickle started out crazy, Douglas' character eased into it, IMO. He struck me as looking for a reason/excuse, and that day provided one.

I didn't like it. I saw it at the theater upon release in 1993 and thought it was a bit cartoon-y. It had a couple of moments, but, overall, it was a slog. It was grim and mean. He wasn't someone to root for/support, and he made his day worse with each decision/step. He had many chances to walk away, let it go, disengage, etc. and he chose not to. When people make their own hell, I find it tough to throw in. Whatever sympathy/understanding he might've had at the start, he pissed it away with each little "adventure" or outburst.

I think it was presented as an "everyman snaps" movie, but I considered him an unsympathetic villain. When he took out his anger/frustration at the fast food place and scared everyone there who had no beef with him, making that kid cry out of fear, etc., I was pretty much done and thought "he's too far gone, because now everyone's his enemy", and it didn't start out that way. By halfway into it, he would've hurt/harassed anyone, even those who didn't deserve it.

I did like how he chased off the two gangbangers who wanted his briefcase. But I hate thieves/thugs, so I enjoyed that scene and won't apologize for that. I had a Disneyland trip, and a couple of other instances in my time in SoCal, marred by these bald-headed, tattoo-necked cocksuckers, so my tolerance/patience for their ilk is non-existent, less than zero.

But he was a bad guy. If his life was that shitty/unsatisfying, he should've eaten a bullet soon after abandoning his car. But then nobody would pay to see an 11-minute movie, would they?

I was rooting for Robert Duvall the entire time. As I do in most everything he's in. I was hoping he wasn't going to die in his efforts to stop Douglas' character. I was kinda braced for that.

Michael Douglas was no noble hero by any stretch. He was a mental patient, and dangerous. And got what was coming to him.

Why? Did you assume I liked him or thought he was cool or something? Because I didn't. He reminded me of someone I once knew, so it wasn't a pleasant movie.

Frankly, by the mid-90's I was quite sick and tired of seeing Michael Douglas pop up in every damn movie I went to. He's a fine actor, but shit...he was in everything for about a 10-12 year period. And I think I saw 'em all.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-02-17 at 17:59.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 18:47

Not at all. He’s an offensive character, and I think he’s meant to show us something bad about ourselves that’s lurking there when we get frustrated or despair. I think there’s a certain audience today, as there was then, whose not sure he’s the villain at all, but they’re wrong.

I think there’s more there though, especially about fragility and violence, weakness and hate. A morality tale that some will mistake as an elegy, which I believe the film makers did by design. But it’s a nice counter point to Tony Soprano and Walter White for me. For some reason, even as I enjoyed both those characters immensely, there were many points in both those series where I could hear Bill Fosters question, “I’m the bad guy?” Tony and Walter similarly don’t always know they’re the bad guys, they’re both self pitying, they’re both aware of it at times, or repressing it, and rediscovering it as they evolve and neither can escape it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-17, 19:20

It was a weird movie. A few neat moments, but just grim and hard to lock into overall. Nobody to like or root for, which can make for a tough sit.

It came out about 10 months before we moved to California and, naturally, it painted a bleak picture that, for the most part, turned out to not be true (at least in the areas I lived, worked and hung out). But man...when I learned we were going to Orange County, and when I looked on the map and saw where it was, I was like "oh shit...we're right below Los Angeles".

But it was beautiful and, overwhelmingly, a positive, great period.

I mean, Deliverance made the Georgia mountains look bad...but that's not accurate either. They're quite beautiful. Drew will back me up on that, I'm sure.
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-02-17, 19:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I mean, Deliverance made the Georgia mountains look bad...but that's not accurate either. They're quite beautiful. Drew will back me up on that, I'm sure.
Gorgeous!!!!
(IF you know how to squeal like a pig)


...
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-18, 08:54

The thing that gets me about movies like Cruela is that it isn't for my kids and I feel like I need to be a kid to watch a movie about the lead villain in a children's movie. I'm not really inclined to watch this just like I haven't watched Maleficent. I mean, her burning the shell of off her dress was cool, but would I want my kids watching that movie, nope.

If the reviews come back and everyone says my life won't be complete without watching it then I might carve some time out for it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-18, 10:09

I don’t think you have to worry.

It’s funny how Disney is doing live-action takes on their animated stuff lately, either direct remakes (Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin) or prequels/alternate takes (Cruella, Maleficent).

Not sure anyone is really asking for them, and have any of them hit really big? I can at least understand the latter...a new, different story completely could be interesting, but why mess with a classic? To me it kinda cheapens/makes less special the animated original., as though Disney is saying “we know this old-timey format won’t cut it in today’s CGI/ADD/video game/24-7 stimuli world, so let’s redo them with bigger, known stars, update the jokes/tone, check the appropriate, expected boxes required in 2021 so we qualify for Oscar consideration, etc.

And it just seems unnecessary, all around.

It’s as though Disney is saying “we don’t think these originals are good enough and hold up; they aren’t timeless like we once kinda thought. We can do better!”

From what I’ve seen, no...you can’t. And aren’t. That Aladdin movie was unbearable And so obnoxious. What were they thinking?!?

I’m sorry, but putting Will Smith in a position to be directly compared to Robin Williams isn’t doing anybody any favors, including Smith himself. That he signed on says a lot about his ego and need for attention.

I think many would be like “thanks for the interest/offer, but that’s Robin’s. I’m not going to be able to best that. But I’d be interested in other projects, so please keep me in mind.”

Will Smith: “Awww, hell yeah. Get that blue paint on me...I’m ready, yo! Lets do this!”

The man has a healthy sense of himself.

Which, overall, is a good trait. But it’s probably resulted in a pile of bad choices over the years.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-02-18 at 10:19.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-18, 10:11

What is funny is Disney pioneered the "vaulting" of classic movies so you couldn't get a copy (legally) during the vaulting time. Now they are making it so no one cares about the vault. Kinda funny if you asked me.

I'm with you though, who asked for this? I mean if it is included in a subscription and cost me nothing then at least I don't have to pay extra to lose braincells.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-02-18, 12:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Gorgeous!!!!
(IF you know how to squeal like a pig)


...
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-19, 20:46

Watching Boyz n the Hood. Still a great movie, and Fishburne’s greatest role.

“You’re my son and I’m not gonna lose you to no bullshit!”

Powerful, sad, funny, sweet, brutal, infuriating. It packs all those in. The final 20 minutes is a roller coaster.

If you’ve never seen it, fix that. It’s just a really good movie. The best, by far, of that wave that came out in the 90’s. Might’ve been the first? I don’t know.
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