User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » AppleOutsider »

Anyone here personally interact with the stock market?


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Anyone here personally interact with the stock market?
Thread Tools
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2015-12-10, 23:06

So I'm looking to make the jump into the stock market. I know I can lose everything and that the next "big thing" can make me rich beyond my wildest dreams and all of that. This thread really isn't about how bad it can suck or how awesome it is all the time. I'm more interested in the day to day kind of stuff. I'm not looking to get rich over night, but I know there is money to be made and wisdom to follow. I also understand that you need some money to get going and then don't eat your seed. Sure keep some earnings back for your family, but reinvest so you can continue a steady growth in your investments.

What are good resources? Is there a company that is better for trading than another? Where do you get your market information? I don't watch TV (or pay for cable) so most of those sources aren't useful to me. Any pointers from people who've done something with the market?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2015-12-10, 23:46

All my investments are in Vanguard index funds. Automated purchases twice a month.

I log in a few times a year but other than that I don't touch it.
  quote
Paul
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York City
 
2015-12-11, 08:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
All my investments are in Vanguard index funds. Automated purchases twice a month.

I log in a few times a year but other than that I don't touch it.
Probably the best and safest way to go. That or something though wealthfront or betterment or one of the newer automated investing services. I think there is a code out there somewhere to get $15k managed for free (normally it is "only" $10k) with wealthfront, which is a pretty good place to start if you are really set on active management.

1215/234215 (top .51875%)
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one business model. -EvilTwinSkippy (/.)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2015-12-11, 22:25

Yeah, paying a professional is certainly the "safest way" to go but it's not what I'm after. I'm wanting to know who's interacted or traded directly with the market. That can be either traded using something like Etrade or directing a broker to act on your behalf.

The act of giving your money to someone else to do whatever they think is best means you are out of the loop generally speaking and not directly involved. I'm more interested in the directly involved aspects of it. In other words, I'm interested in learning this and more about it, not to pay a professional who does it already.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2015-12-12, 06:28

I've been in the stock market for a while, but am not a regular trader.

I would shop around and just look for the brokerage service that has the lowest fees. If you're going to make most or all of the decisions yourself, there is no reason to pay more. I've had an account with TD Ameritrade for a while, but I think the fee is twice as much as my other account at Merrill Lynch. There's a $5.00 difference, and right now I'm not very active, so I don't care much about that now.

I don't have much to invest, so I'm not really looking to gamble. I've done a bit of that with companies like Webvan and something called US Ammunition, but didn't lose that much, and don't speculate on small companies and start-ups anymore.

I started while I was in the Navy at a place in New London, but that was so long ago, that I don't remember why. (It didn't have anything to do with enlistment bonuses or anything like that.) I just found a broker and opened an account. At the time, my strategy was finding companies with a dividend reinvestment program, like Texas Utilities. (At the time, it was the beginning of the internet and there were no online brokerage services.)

Maybe the luckiest I've gotten was Apple at something like $8 or $9, but I sold at maybe $35. I wanted to buy at $7-1/2, but I was in Italy at the time, and everything was still done by telephone and mail.

Lately I just look for big companies that have had a loss due to bad news. An example of this is Home Depot when it was hacked. If I had any money, I would have put some into Volkswagen. But I've always had a long term outlook, so didn't sell my Home Depot, which is still up from when I bought it, but probably not as much as it was a few months ago.

I used to read the Wall Street Journal, but now all the information you need will be available through the online brokerages at no cost, unless you want their in-depth reports and stock rating services. With the print newspaper, I'd look at the loss and gain leaders and the high yield (total investment) leaders and do some research into companies on those lists.

I'm probably not the type of investor you want to talk to, though -- not willing to take a big risk since I'm unemployed/retired and right now am month-to-month with expenses. In general, all my remaining investments have grown (mutual funds are probably up maybe 10X in 20 to 25 years, which means through the dot-com bust and recent collapse) and stocks not so much (probably less than double with mostly gains and some losses (like Motorola, I think, and probably Volkswagen from 10-15 years ago). I did well with the dividend reinvestment stocks (I don't know if they even have those anymore), but had to give those up getting myself through school. I'm really out of touch with the practical handling of money since until recently, I didn't realize that savings accounts no longer pay 5-1/4% interest.

Last edited by Anonymous Coward : 2015-12-13 at 01:36.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2015-12-13, 12:59

Thank you for the input. That is actually some of the stuff I am hoping to get. While it isn't massive, it's your actual experience.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2015-12-22, 09:46

So has anyone else out there traded on the market either by directing a broker to make the trade or using an online trading service? What trading service did you use? I know there is normally talk in the Apple Stock thread, was that all armchair talking or are people here actually buying the stocks?

Am I asking questions of something that is like Fight Club, we just don't talk about it?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2015-12-22, 10:35

I trade through Wells Fargo and have my brokerage account with them. I'm not sure of the criteria they use to establish such perks but I get 100 free trades a year with them which is more than enough for me.

I started trading by reading at least half a dozen books on the topic and finding the 60-75% I agreed with across all the books.

That said the market itself doesn't respond to mechanisms like most people think and there are always actions out there you can't find enough time to read about or discover. Plus the government in the United States has so distorted the economy that it is hard to truly feel safe with your choices. Then there high frequency trading and even more modern factors to consider.

I've done pretty well after initially taking some bad lumps. There are just way too many companies to follow so sometimes I invest in companies I like that I know will be around for quite a while when something has caused their stock to take a hit. For example I tossed some money into McDonalds after their CEO resigned. Sometimes I look into a specific area of the economy I think might be getting ready to get hot or sink. I've not gotten sophisticated enough to deal with options yet and from my understanding that is where some real money can be made. Also be aware that your account can be labeled with a day trader status if you jump in or out of a stock too quickly.

Just be aware that when you grab your profits, you'll probably never feel great. Part of being decent at this is about locking in gains and limiting losses. Gains aren't gains until you take them. Part of taking them often means selling before a peak. How do you know when the peak is?

Well you don't. That is why you have to establish a number for yourself and just stick with it. When you don't, you get whacked. Also learn to use stop/losses and stick with your plan there. When you don't, you get whacked.

There's always more gain to grab. There's always more to lose. You'll have wonderful stories of what could have been if only you hadn't stuck to your plan. Example I was stopped out of Apple at $43 a share after buying at $48 a share. This was before Apple went up to several hundred dollars and then split. However other buys didn't do that and the capital was preserved to invest another day. (Still made $1500 this year on Apple on a short buy if it makes anyone feel any better.)

While starting your real portfolio, I might recommend also starting a "fantasy" portfolio much like how people play fantasy sports. Then you can try out some of your thoughts with pretend money before you do the same with your real money.
  quote
Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2015-12-22, 11:01

I have also invested a largish sum of money (for me anyway) in various stocks and mutual funds over the years. At some point I decided I couldn't reasonably pay attention to the US economy while abroad so I dumped what I had into a mutual fund. The dividends had been nice, but the principle has lost so much value this year that it has essentially erased gains granted by the dividends. I haven't invested other than to play -- the source money is inheritance I feel doesn't really belong to me -- so I am going to stick with the mutual funds and hope that the bond market stabilizes soon...

I do this via e-trade, and since I am not anywhere close to a day-trader, i have not seen any fees for trades...

Last edited by Dr. Bobsky : 2015-12-22 at 12:07.
  quote
Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2015-12-30, 21:09

If I were a novice, I would feel very confused after reading all of the above posts, mainly because it's a lot of information all at once.

I know you are stubborn about not using television as a means of education, but when it comes to investing in the stock market, *not* using television as a resource would be like going into a cave and slamming a rock over the front.

I got into the market in 1998. But *before* I did, I spent at least three years of studying and learning about how the market works. I educated myself first by reading magazines on investment, like Money, Forbes, Individual Investor. You could go to the library and read the magazines they subscribe to monthly on finance and investing. Take good notes on the articles you find helpful.

Then you should faithfully watch PBS's Nightly Business Report every day and even take notes while watching on industries and stocks you'd like to study up on. Keep a notebook to preserve facts, ideas and issues you have found and want to study up on/research.

CNBC is an investment channel on cable and you should watch that as yet another source of information. But, I would trust the PBS Nightly Business Report more than comments made on CNBC. Ideally, the more *you* become educated/informed, the better you can judge on whom to trust. Information is absolutely *crucial* on a day to day basis when it comes to educating oneself on the world economy, the U.S. economy, and the market. All are intertwined.

You should know what's going on in Europe, for example, and give thought to how massive migration will affect/strain the European Union countries. It's helpful to know the past and present history of China and the huge effect it is having and will be having on world markets, especially our own. Apple, for example, is just one of many companies whose manufacturing is in China, and whose Chinese workers are affected on a day to day basis by the news in China, the changing of its economy, and by the Chinese leaders who run everything.

Because I carefully research each company, I almost never have regrets. However, I took a chance and invested in Alibaba, for example, and now I wish I hadn't. And why is that? Because we suddenly find that the Chinese leaders seem to have been manipulating the Chinese stock market, fearful of what might happen if the actual *truth* of the market's situation had gotten out. Who knows what the actual truth *is* there; and meanwhile, I'm going to hang on to my Alibaba stock and wait until it goes up. I do believe it will, but I don't trust the Chinese market now. Things happen in China *daily* that affect my stock. I think Alibaba's founder recently (last week) bought the main English-language newspaper there (in Beijing?). That's a pretty huge event when it comes to the value of a company and its stock in a communist country.

Back to Before getting into the market, I researched online brokerage firms as thoroughly as possible, and at the time, I decided on TDAmeritrade. The fee per trade is an issue, but equally important is the fee the company charges to *maintain* your account. If I were you, I'd call the customer service phone number for each brokerage company and ask what the yearly service fee adds up to. Make sure you get a straight answer. Ask if these periodic fees can be found in the "History" of your account. Ask how often the maintenance fee is charged.

Except for my first one or two trades that I had a broker do, just to be sure nothing got screwed up, I have never used a broker for advice or to do trading for me. I do it myself online, and I do it carefully. Before being able to buy stocks, I have to transfer funds from my checking account into my brokerage account. The ability to transfer funds you'll have to read up about online on the website of the brokerage you decide on. The site will give directions on what to do. At first, transfer a small amount, like 10 cents or $1.00, just to be sure the transfer works. You want the money in your brokerage account at least the day before you decide to buy.

You need to be studying up on which stocks you want to buy, and how much you want to spend on each. Then, once you're sure, perhaps you could wait for the market to take a dive, which it does often, and buy your stocks while the market is down. I buy stocks that I might wish to leave in my portfolio for possibly *years*. Then, you have to watch the daily news in case something happens to one of your companies. Usually I would leave the stock alone because I buy companies whose boards I trust. But I have a high tolerance for risk.

Edit:

When you are looking into which brokerage company you might want to use, see if one has an office relatively near your residence. Say you want to get money into your account fast, and the whole transfer of funds thing makes you nervous, especially when you are in a hurry. Well, if the brokerage office is near, you can just drive over and hand the representative a check to deposit into your account. I live way too far to do this on a regular basis, but I have driven across town once or twice when I wanted to speak with someone face to face. I wasn't asking for advice on what stocks to buy, but maybe I had procedural questions; or maybe I wanted to get money into my account fast.

For my first few trades, as I said, I told a broker (by phone, in my case) that I wanted him to do the buy for me, of what company and how much. He did the trade for a standard fee, and after that, I did it all on my own. He wasn't *my broker*, didn't give me advice, and back then, the broker fee for a broker-performed trade was probably something like $29.95. I imagine that a fair number of new investors might use a broker at first, simply to put through a few trades. But you might not need that. You do need to read up on market *jargon* terms in the vocabulary section of the trading page of your online account. I always have to read up on those terms each time, because I don't buy or sell that often, and after months have gone by, I can't remember the terms needed when placing a trade order.

Also, regarding money. I feel that the money you place on the market is money that you should be prepared to lose completely, if the absolute worst happens. It should *never* be money that you are counting on for your livelihood or your family's well-being. It needs to be money that you are prepared to lose and can get by without. If that is the case, then emotionally you'll be able to sleep okay at night and not be worrying about losing your life savings in the market! I really despise the market, because of the traders that cause the fluctuations. They don't operate as normal people would. Fearful of a loss, they sell all their clients' stock one day, causing the market to crash, and then buy it all back two days later. If you've bought companies that you feel are truly sound, then you will sit out these crashes. I never sold Apple at any time, for example, even when lots of people did. So my percentage growth for Apple is fairly huge, something like 540%, I think.
  quote
Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2015-12-31, 18:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo View Post
While starting your real portfolio, I might recommend also starting a "fantasy" portfolio much like how people play fantasy sports. Then you can try out some of your thoughts with pretend money before you do the same with your real money.
This is a great idea, turtle. Just for the heck of it, pick some stocks today, say $1,000 worth of each stock, and follow their worth for a few months, while you are busy reading magazine articles and doing online research to increase your general knowledge about the market. With $1,000 of each stock, it will be easy to calculate their percentage increase or decrease literally at a glance.

If I didn't say it succinctly in the post above, your side goal should be to increase your knowledge of what is happening in the world and the U.S., because news events can have huge effects on the economies of each nation, and thus on the stock markets. PBS News Hour is a wonderful daily news program. You can probably watch it on your phone or laptop, since PBS local and national have websites with various of their programs available for viewing online. I love PBS because the programs aren't constantly interrupted by commercials, because they have in-depth coverage, and because they have no particular political bias influencing their coverage.

Next in selecting stocks, in my opinion, is common sense. Think of companies that you and your wife like personally, places where you shop that seem well-run and treat their customers well. Do some online research on a few of these companies to back up your common sense feeling about them. A company like Costco might be a slow-growth stock that you might have as a long-term investment. It might not go up fast, but it may keep going up steadily over the years. Some of the bio-tech stocks might be fast-growth, depending on when you catch them.

If you decide on a few bio-techs that seem promising, be prepared for uncertainty. If you know you want to buy, be ready with money in your account, and then buy when the market takes a dive, which it does all too frequently. Greece, for example, has caused the world markets to dive more than any single cause over the last few years. Germany has helped to steady that situation, but now, Germany has hundreds of thousands of new immigrants flooding in due to the Syrian crisis, and who knows how that will affect the German economy. They've had an aging population, as have many first-world countries globally; so young immigrants could be great for their economy. All things to consider when investing. Costco, for example, has stores around the world, so what I've been mentioning affects them.

Edit:

PBS television includes BBC News programs which give a global perspective on world news. BBC news is also on radio, on your local National Public Radio (NPR) station. You could go online to check when the BBC news airs on your local NPR station, and then listen in your car or home radio.

All the news sources available should be accessed for the individual investor to get a grip on what is happening in China now wrt their stock market. The dive currently going on is really scary. The Chinese leaders are so used to withholding truth from their citizens for decades, and those leaders are now discovering that a free market can't work unless the same truth/information is available to all people. The current disaster is going on because the Chinese people who invest don't feel they can trust their leaders or their stock market, because *it* has been manipulated by those leaders. The Chinese leaders have caused devastation in markets across the planet. I just hope things settle out over the next few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Thank you so much for your input Windswept! I'm on "break" right now but will reply with more thoughts on these posts in the next few days. I just wanted to let you know I'm very grateful for your input.
You're very welcome. It's a lot to soak in, but I think you and your wife together could do well on the market. It's the only place where your money can grow a bit, and not just sit in a savings account with virtually zero growth.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2016-01-02, 01:49

Thank you so much for your input Windswept! I'm on "break" right now but will reply with more thoughts on these posts in the next few days. I just wanted to let you know I'm very grateful for your input.

Edit: El Gallo too!

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.

Last edited by turtle : 2016-01-02 at 03:20.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2016-01-05, 22:24

I've thought about it, but never acted on those thoughts. I remember telling my father he should buy Apple at $12, and Chrysler when it was at its depths and was about to bet everything on the Neon. Those were right, but I also thought Corel would comeback with a solid WordPerfect suite to challenge Microsoft's dominance back in the day, and when they tanked hard, I figured I should stop guessing or just burn my money in the backyard.

I think for a lot of people getting started is the toughest step. I don't have a lot of money to risk, but in Canada our previous Prime Minister (who was an economist IRL) introduced these Tax-Free Savings Accounts to increase the savings rate. You can hold stocks and bonds inside them (as well as cash) and the investment income isn't taxed. I'd love to get started this year, but I don't have a stockbroker (and I understand with the fees, online brokerages are the way to go anyway.)

Why hasn't some enterprising group created a video game to teach people about diving into the stock market, using real-life numbers?
Like SIM City, but with stockbrokers!

Or is there already one I don't know about?
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-09, 13:44

So years later and I'm only sort of doing this. Of course the recent publicity of "retail trading" brought it back to mind.

I started back a few years ago getting started using my bank to buy Apple stocks. That was pretty painless and only bought 4 shares. That is an unrealized gain as of now as most of you could imagine.

The second stock I bought turned out to be a penny stock. I know the company and wanted stock in it. I didn't go overboard or anything but bought in at $.67 and it is now at $2.40. I'm not planning to sell anytime soon and even when I do I'll likely be able to buy a mini for the gains. It was really my first trade in something that falls into penny stocks. I used my bank again and that is where I learned I had to set a limit so I didn't get sold stocks at prices that were not acceptable.

The third stock I bought was a penny stock again but this time it was to try out a new app. The app was easy to follow and I put $40 into the stock. Basically it was money I was willing to throw out the window with the chance that it would go up. So far it hasn't and I'm ok with it. I'm playing with features of the app (Schwab) this time rather than the goal of making money. I'm not doing anything outlandish but more the automated trading features.

One suggestion I was given upthread was to trade on paper before putting real money in it. I have done that a number of times and generally ended up with a gain. Of course, this isn't always the case, but certainly nice to feel like I would have made money. Until I get a real handle on the business world I'll hold off on making any future trades that would be a loss I'm not willing to make.

When I started this thread times were different. Good and inexpensive brokers were hard to get and for a "retails trade" to happen was expensive and difficult. Now with so many apps it changed the game drastically. I mean, it is free to trade with Schwab and was with my bank until they moved us to Schwab. We also have so much realtime data at our fingertips now. I've got a terminal window open now with my stocks pretty much non-stop now. Ticker is a cool and relatively easy to install app. Apple Stocks app falls behind when it comes to watching "realtime".

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2021-02-09, 23:31

I've been dumping small amounts of money into individual stocks for a few years now. (Took $10k from my parents instead of a car in college, bought Apple, and used it to buy my first car)

Now, my wife and I put money into our Robinhood account with each paycheck and whenever we have extra money. We have a decent portion in Apple with average price under $100, so we've done pretty well there so far, but the rest is just a hodgepodge of different companies that we've been interested in. Overall, we're up 32% in 3 years, so so far so good.

I like this much more than mutual funds and such. We've started to put money into a custodial account at Schwab for our daughter that is mostly mutual fund based but still has some individual Apple shares as well.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-02-09, 23:32

I'm sticking with my index funds.
  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-10, 03:53

As mentioned in the other thread (daily news), I'm more of a buy and hold investor. Choose a stock you believe has good potential for growth, and just sit on it. Checking daily progress can just put more stress in your life.

But, assuming you're not just gambling (focused mainly on the trade), one thing I do is designate all my holdings for dividend reinvestment. It's kind of like compound interest. You can do that with the index funds (DIA -Dow Jones Industrial Average, SPY - Standard and Poor Index, QQQ - NASDAQ). Looking at my transaction history, DIA posted ordinary dividends on 11 January, SPY on 29 January, and QQQ last December 31, so it works for them, and shares can be issued in fractional amounts. For instance, when SPY posted their dividend, my brokerage account purchased 0.044 shares. It has been doing that for probably 30 years or so.

If you want to do something more structured, take a look at the top 10 losers for the day. Often solid companies drop unreasonably on bad news and most likely they will recover. It's not quite as much of an exercise these days, though, because now the top 10 lists have links and each company has their own news page to help you decide whether or not that is a reasonable gamble.

But even when I'm lucky, it just makes me realize that I don't know what I'm doing. Who would have thought that investing in an electrical grid management company would have have tied my investment to bitcoin, which is something I never would have done (also referring to a "daily news" post).
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-10, 10:20

Yeah, I'm not in this to gamble. I did that in the Caribbean and really just don't like losing money. I know there is always a risk when investing but the goal is minimize the risk while maximizing the gains. I used to listen to Dave Ramsey a lot and he is a strong promoter of "growth stock mutual funds" in general. Not any one specifically, just using them as your investment because there is little risk and almost always a 12% growth, at least when I last listened to him.

I was reading one of Cramer's books and he talked about not holding onto a stock so long you think it is a pet. I think his point there really is to be agile with the stocks and not pick something just to put all your eggs in one basket. I still have the Apple stock I bought first. Why did I buy the stock though? Was it to show support for Apple? Nope, it was to make money. So when I'm ready to liquidate it I'll turn a profit. Hopefully I'll reinvest it rather than just spend it though.

I guess it really comes down to the goal for why you do what you do with the market. Are you looking for high interest savings? Then buy and hold can work. Are you looking to replace your day job, then you would need lots of reinvesting dividends as well as enough profit to be able to pull from that to live off of. I want to get to that point. While I love what I do for a job, I don't want to have to work.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2021-02-10, 12:04

Index funds in the morning, index funds in the evening, index funds at supper time. When you invest in the stock market, you can get index funds any time!

That's my mantra.

I have received individual stocks from my employers over the years, but I've never held them. I sell them pretty much as soon as I can because I see their cash equivalent as part of my overall compensation and believe I'm better off handling that money on my own. So far this strategy has worked entirely in my favor. For instance, my current employer IBM is a behemoth that isn't going away any time soon, but its stock has been on a slow downward slide for a long time, and the dividends likely don't make up the difference.

I only invest in the stock market as a retirement vehicle, and my investments reflect that. I've seen too many folks burned on individual stocks, and I'm not really a gambling man. Years ago I read about John "Jack" Bogle (inventor of the index fund and founder of Vanguard) and I decided to go all-in with index funds. I basically follow his three-fund portfolio advice with most of my money in VTSAX (total US stock market), VTIAX (total international market), and VBTLX (total bond market), though I still have some in VFIAX (S&P 500) which is where I invested the majority before I discovered VTSAX. I invest in my three main funds roughly to mimic a managed target date fund, but I do it manually to get much lower expense ratios.

The big index funds aren't as exciting or potentially profitable as juggling individual stocks, but I like them precisely because they're more reliable, cheaper (in terms of fees and expense ratios), and don't require active management on my part. It's a very "set it and forget it" mindset, and I never have to stress over it. Plus, since the "total market" index tracks, well, the whole market, it only falls when pretty much everything falls. If you believe the US and society as a whole will keep investing in the stock markets, you only "lose" with this strategy if everyone loses, at which point we all probably have bigger problems anyway. Using the "three-fund portfolio" stretegy, though, further reduces your risk by diversifying across bonds and international markets.

Whenever the major indices like S&P 500 and NASDAQ fall more than half a percent in a day, I check to see if I have any spare cash above my monthly budgets, and if markets are still down before the 4PM close, I buy. Buy low; sell when it's time to retire. Other than that, I have my IRA and my wife's IRA set to automatically buy every month to max out the annual contribution limits.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-12, 14:21

That is such a boring way to make money.

Interestingly enough, it was also the topic of this LifeHacker article.

I'm still going to "play" in the market I think but will likely keep the bulk of my assets in mutual like funds. I had Vanguard at one point thanks to an employer but don't have them now. Apparently with Schwab there is a fee to those index funds. I have been on the lookout though for funds that would work long term.

However, in the context of this thread, I'm still going to be buying and selling individual stocks. Example is my foray recently where my stock went from $40 down to $23.16 currently. I mean, I don't lose anything until I sell it with stocks so in the end there could be a spike and I get my money back and then some. This one I'm going to leave until the stock goes to zero and the company folds or is doubles my money. I can do a lot with $80.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-02-12, 15:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
That is such a boring way to make money.

Interestingly enough, it was also the topic of this LifeHacker article.

I'm still going to "play" in the market I think but will likely keep the bulk of my assets in mutual like funds. I had Vanguard at one point thanks to an employer but don't have them now. Apparently with Schwab there is a fee to those index funds. I have been on the lookout though for funds that would work long term.

However, in the context of this thread, I'm still going to be buying and selling individual stocks. Example is my foray recently where my stock went from $40 down to $23.16 currently. I mean, I don't lose anything until I sell it with stocks so in the end there could be a spike and I get my money back and then some. This one I'm going to leave until the stock goes to zero and the company folds or is doubles my money. I can do a lot with $80.
You can buy Vanguard ETFs commission-free basically everywhere, including Schwab.

VTSAX == VTI
VBTLX == BND
VTIAX == VXUS
  quote
Anonymous Coward
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-02-12, 15:33

Dollar cost averaging. Did you like the stock at $40? Buy again at $23.16. If your investment was only $80 to begin with, you won't be adding greatly to your investment. If it goes back to $30+, you can change your mind and get out with no loss. If your original investment doubles, you've made that much more.

Of course, "dollar cost averaging" as a recognized investment strategy is really regular investments whether the stock goes up or down, not what I described above, but it kind of describes the above.

Also, as to gambling: You said you own Apple stock. What if there were headlines that "Apple supplier Foxconn found to utilize child labor" and the stock immediately dropped 10%. Would you consider adding to your portfolio then? Or are you a bit more informed due to your familiarity with Apple without doing all the research and would be making a better choice than someone who just used the strategy "buy on bad news".
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-02-13, 10:04

I don't like the stock I put $40 into. In fact, if had done more than a few seconds of research I wouldn't have put $40 into it. While it would drive my averages down to buy it now that is it at $22.40 it would in the end cost me more and not worth trying to save the average. The company is a dying company that taught me the value of researching a little better. To be more clear, I bought $40 worth at $.05 and is it currently $0.0280. Why $40, because it was in the "blow money" and only prevents me from spending it one frivolous stuff anyway.

So in the end, worst case scenario is that I paid $40 for education on stock research. That is really valuable to me so I'm willing to consider that my "dues".

For a company like Apple, I would buy more when it drops. I believe they are not done growing and profiting and I like the company as a whole. I'm not in the market to make a political statement, I'm there to make money. I just happen to like Apple and their products so that makes it even easier to invest in them.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In the market for a car Artap99 Purchasing Advice 21 2010-07-08 21:52
Money isn't real, the stock market is a ponzi scheme, and capitalism is evil! SteveC AppleOutsider 119 2008-01-25 05:29
US Cellular Market cosus General Discussion 2 2007-08-29 17:04
Hurdles and Pitfalls of the Stock Market SteveC AppleOutsider 38 2007-08-22 21:17
I would personally like to thank Apple... kabal Apple Products 24 2006-02-15 15:50


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2021, AppleNova