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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-11-18, 21:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Gee, I'm shocked.

This is why I gave the up the first-day-adopter thing years ago...I spent years doing it - both on my Mac and iPhone - with no trouble at all. But somewhere around 2014-2015, the wheels seemed to come off a bit on the OS/software QC front, so I stopped trying to be among the first. I don't enjoy being a guinea pig or after-the-fact beta tester.
I'm similarly very grateful for all the Bothans' systems that died to bring us a better OS, but I really wish Apple would get that I'm not going to load Big Sur updates until the Dot One release is out.

So I don't need to see those update icons daily in my dock. That's just annoying.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2020-11-18, 22:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Who here has ordered one of these new M1-based Macs? I’m looking forward to hearing what folks I “know” have to say vs. just random tech writers, bloggers and YouTube un-boxers.
I ordered the 13" MBP with 16 GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

Been holding off on a notebook since the late summer since I gave my previous 2019 MBP to my wife to use for work. That was a 4 port model, but I think I should be more than fine with the new M1 MBP. I'm only using it for office work and such. Nothing too crazy. I've still got a 2019 iMac on my desk that I can let plug away at things if I need anything done that requires some longer term power.

Definitely looking forward to getting this as the reviews make them seem super impressive, but my delivery date is still 3 weeks out at this point.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-30, 19:12

More reports, more good news, more "what the hell has been hanging the PC industry up all these years?" light getting shined on Apple's engineering efforts.

The M1 is all I was hoping for, and a whole lot more. Goodbye Intel, hello M1!

Quote:
In real world test after test, the M1 Macs are not merely inching past top of the line Intel Macs, they are destroying them. In disbelief people have started asking how on earth this is possible?
And this business:

Quote:
As far as I remember from performance benchmarks the newest AMD CPU cores, the ones called Zen3 are slightly faster than Firestorm cores. But here is the kicker, that only happens because the Zen3 cores are clocked at 5 GHz. Firestorm cores are clocked at 3.2 GHz. The Zen3 is just barely squeezing past Firestorm despite having almost 60% higher clock frequency.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-11-30 at 19:51.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-30, 19:44

How is it possible? And what's the catch? Because there's one, somewhere.

Or is this just completely unexpected - more than anyone thought it would be - and just accepted for what it appears to be?

I realize there are drawbacks for those using specific titles or having to run Windows on your Mac, but for those of us who don't fit into some of these specific scenarios, I'm not seeing the other shoe drop.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2020-11-30, 19:56

I just picked up mine today.

The simplest thing I can say is that I can't tell the difference between my previous MBPs for the most part.

The keyboard is nicer and the computer works like it should. I don't do much concerning pegging the performance, so we'll see how the net few days go, but overall, after about 10 hours, this thing is just as nice or nicer as any other MBP I've had.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-11-30, 20:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
How is it possible? And what's the catch? Because there's one, somewhere.
Someone at Apple, around 2007, decided to make a long-term bet. They start buying companies like PA Semi and Intrinsity.

Meanwhile, someone at Intel saw how well their Core lineup was doing and got complacent. Core’s best days are yet to come.

Fast forward to 2017-ish: Apple’s bet starts to pay off in ways externally noticeable. Intel, meanwhile, made some strategic and engineering errors that lose them multiple years. AMD launches Zen and gets ahead in some areas.

2020: Intel is slowly recovering from their mistakes, but has now lost about half a decade. Apple is way ahead.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-30, 20:07

That answers/explains some things. Thanks.

I don't follow some of the more hardcore, tech end of things, so I wasn't aware of that stuff.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-11-30, 20:37

I highly recommend watching this mini-documentary. It's really, really good at explaining what's up.

https://youtu.be/OuF9weSkS68

...
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-11-30, 21:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Meanwhile, someone at Intel saw how well their Core lineup was doing and got complacent.
Someone should remind Intel that only the paranoid survive.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-07, 17:17

Nothing we didn't already expect/assume, but here you go...Apple working on next-version of guts to go into iMac and MacBook Pro in 2021.

Quote:
Apple is working on a series of new custom Apple silicon processors to power upgraded versions of the MacBook Pro, new iMacs, and a new Mac Pro for introduction as early as next year, according to a new report by Bloomberg.
I hope it's as "early as next year" (2021), and that the event a couple of weeks ago isn't all we get until 2022.

I have to believe any new M-based iMac is accompanied by a redesign/new size, but I wonder what the chances are that they'll do what they did a few weeks ago and drop the new guts into familiar hardware, saving big hardware redesigns for the next go-around?
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-07, 19:23

Yeah, this bit is fun:

Quote:
For later in 2021 or potentially 2022, Apple is working on pricier graphics upgrades with 64 and 128 dedicated cores aimed at its highest-end machines, the people said. Those graphics chips would be several times faster than the current graphics modules Apple uses from Nvidia and AMD in its Intel-powered hardware.
While this is still only speculation, I have no doubt that Apple is reaching not just for Intel, but AMD/Nvidia as well. They aren't doing this because they feel all cute and cuddly, they're doing it because there is a raging Tiger hiding in the belly of the Apple.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 09:14

The interesting part in all of that is it is just for Apple. They aren't going to resell their chips so if you want that kind of hardware you're going to buy a Mac.

In the end proprietary is going to drive more away than performance will draw in I believe.

Don't misunderstand me, they are great systems based on the current benchmarks and the rumors of what is to come. I'm looking forward to having one too.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-08, 10:03

I don't know what you people are listening to that requires $800 headphones.

But I really wish the team working on the Airpods Max rolled out today had been working on the Apple Silicon iMac instead.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-12-08, 11:07

Why would there be a fourth M1 Mac in less than a month? Those iMacs have just been updated in summer, too.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-08, 11:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Why would there be a fourth M1 Mac in less than a month? Those iMacs have just been updated in summer, too.
The 27" iMac's were updated, but 21.5" iMac wasn't( outside of some storage shenanigans).
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2020-12-08, 12:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
In the end proprietary is going to drive more away than performance will draw in I believe.
Why? Who actually cares about the CPU other than an increasingly small segment who are never going to be buying Macs anyway?
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 14:38

Why is simple, perception. It has no relevance on facts or performance but there are lots of builders who hate the idea of not being able to use off-the-shelf parts.

I think there are more that were willing to come when they could run Windows "easily" on their Macs because they were curious to the Apple noise. There will be less of that. I'm not saying Apple will lose its user base or anything silly like that, just less will be enticed when they see proprietary and soldered. Sure it is a small number in the grand scheme, but it is real.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-12-08, 15:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
The 27" iMac's were updated, but 21.5" iMac wasn't( outside of some storage shenanigans).
Right. Anyways, I think if that was the plan, they would’ve announced it in Nov. So probably not until spring.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-08, 15:48

The number of people hearing the buzz about M1 who are not die-hard fans and rushing into the store to see them is just nuts.

The normal jabber from the folks at AN is "guys who know computers", which tends to lack "normal people who just use computers" perspective. I've never seen so many people with little or no computer knowledge coming in to see something with "this new M1 processor".

Here's an example: We still have several early 2020 MacBook Air machines in stock at reduced prices. When some random person walks in and is given the choice of Intel-based Air or M1-based Air, they almost unanimously want the M1, even people who consider themselves computer illiterate.

Sure, Apple will lose a few spec-whore-fixit-myself types, but for every one of those, I wager they will gain 10 people who just want the bloody thing to work.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 16:14

I don't think the ratio is that high, but I won't argue the concept. Had I not been working where I was when I switched, I wouldn't have given Apple a change with their G4 processors. After all, I build my own systems and hate the bloat that comes with a Dell/HP etc.

Then again, I'm not the vast majority of users out there and that is who Apple is targeting.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-08, 17:01

That's correct. Apple has never cared about the build-it-yourself market, and never will. They sell pre-assembled, pre-spec'ed systems to people who want that convenience.

The M1 will now give those pre-spec'ed systems a sizable performance advantage in very key areas, and perhaps in all areas. The jury is yet out, but my bet is on Apple pulling it off.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2020-12-08, 19:05

I'd bet heavily on them doing so.

"Why is simple, perception. It has no relevance on facts or performance but there are lots of builders who hate the idea of not being able to use off-the-shelf parts."

Builders aren't buying Macs, and haven't for *years*, it's antithetical to the builder philosophy.

I honestly don't know who would have purchased an Intel Mac a month ago, who would be turning down an M1 Mac now. I mean, if you absolutely *have* to run Windows, natively, booted directly via BootCamp, then yes, you're probably out of the running, but when the benchmarks running Windows/ARM in a hypervisor environment are faster than Windows/Intel directly on the old machines... that's kind of interesting.

Yes, there are certainly going to be some people who think this is a bad move. I would gladly wager significant amounts of hard cash with them.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-08, 20:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Why would there be a fourth M1 Mac in less than a month? Those iMacs have just been updated in summer, too.
My post might not have been worded as clearly as it should have been.

I meant that the engineering resources could have been better utilized on the new Apple Silicon Macs.

The Apple Silicon iMac was never going to debut today. But maybe the Pro line could be here faster if Apple Engineering wasn't busy designing and building $800 headphones that no-one was really asking for.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 20:31

*raises hand*

I'm one of those builders...and bought an Intel mini a little over a month ago.

I know I'm a corner case, but I happen to have direct representation here thus my statements and stance. Please understand, I'm not disagreeing with you at all here just pointing out it is a much more definitive isolation point for "switchers". Basically, if you love iPhone, buy a Mac. If you don't, go with Dell/HP/Gateway (), etc...

It isn't just me but also the circles I run in at work. My boss would likely freak out if he knew my "work computer" was a VM running on a Mac. The desktop they provided is an ESXi server for testing. The company I work for prides itself on running Windows Everything. So my coworkers tend to lean that way too. They are all geeks as I am so we talk about tech at the virtual water cooler. Everyone of them is distrusting of the stats on the new Macs and even less willing to consider them in any way now that they are no longer running Intel. These are intelligent people who just dismiss for the sole reason that it is proprietary. They also hate Cisco blades and such, but that is again, a corner case. These people aren't Apple's target now, but I still believe the move to proprietary is going to drive more away than performance will draw in.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2020-12-08, 21:21

I guess I wouldn't ever consider a Mac mini to be a "builder's" machine, so perhaps that's the confusion point. I was thinking ATX case, select a mobo and PSU, CPU, etc, etc, and you know... build it. Those folks obviously aren't going to be buying Apple no matter what the performance is like.

After years of essentially stagnation of Intel speed (oh yay, we got 8% this year! whee!) it looks like we're back to the early days of the industry, when we looked forward to rather crazy leaps year after year. That is going to alter the landscape considerably within two years.

Maybe you're right, but I cannot for the life of me imagine how there are more people walking around who care about the brand on the processor, more than if it works well, provides more raw power, and at a reasonable price for those features.

I mean, hell, I'm a CS researcher, developer, and consultant, and *I* don't give a crap about whether the CPU has Intel or an Apple logo... I want it to be stable, predictable behavior, and year over year always faster. The risk is primarily whether the migration can be managed effectively, and Apple has experience pulling that off with very little hitch.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 10:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I don't know what you people are listening to that requires $800 headphones.

But I really wish the team working on the Airpods Max rolled out today had been working on the Apple Silicon iMac instead.
Then you’re really gonna love this.
  quote
Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-09, 11:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post


I honestly don't mind freelancing outside the usual product matrix. But this is all kinds of crazy.

We're in the middle of the most important chip transition in the Mac's history. Why waste four years in time and engineering resources on a niche product that no-one is clamouring for?

I'm sure the new headphones sound terrific and the 47 microphones inside will make quick work of relaying your most private thoughts directly to Google, Facebook, Five Eyes, Putin, Beijing, and Amazon. In Dolby surround sound.

But Bose and Sony can already satisfy my overpriced audio gear needs.

No one else on Earth can build me a 30" Apple Silicon iMac.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 12:05

I just think they put a lot of priority/emphasis on the consumer electronics/"lifestyle" angle these days. Right or wrong, good or bad, that seems to be the company they are, and then "oh, yeah...we make computers too".

Although I'm hoping this M1 stuff is the sign of a returned emphasis on that front in the coming years. Because Macs sometimes have felt like an afterthought in recent years, sure enough. But I guess not all of that can be laid at Apple's feet? I don't know.

Yeah, I was stunned to see such a thing - headphones - was four years in the making. That's about two-and-a-half more than I ever would've guessed. But if these are to be the iPhone of music-listening, I guess that takes some time.

The cool, positive thing is...the iPhones are out of the way, these headphones are, as are the lower-end Macs. So 2021 has to hold some news/movement on the M1 transition to other Macs. I know there will be some iPad and other non-Mac stuff to come, but I'm betting by this time next year, the Macs most people buy/care about will be running on the new stuff. And we might be pleasantly surprised at the pace of that transition. A lot could happen by summer.

I'm trying to take the optimistic view of this because I think they're further along, and have figured a lot of things out, already. That "two year" transition (announced at WWDC) is probably to allow them some buffer/wiggle room on the niche, higher-end Macs. I'd wager two tacos and a round of beer that by June 1, the iMac, and the 16" and two higher-end MacBook Pros (14"?) will be sporting the new stuff. And then that gives them an entire year to focus on any desktops with "pro" in the name, which nobody here seems all that interested in anyway. So I think most of us here will have what we want, come summer.

I just hope they redesign those wheels and the display stand because I think both need a far more expensive, platinum-plated Deluxe Xtreme™ version. The current ones are for penniless chumps.

...

...

Said no one, ever, in the history of anything.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-12-09, 14:00

Finally, you cretins, touchscreen Macs!

Just you wait.



...
  quote
chucker
 
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2020-12-09, 15:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
I honestly don't know who would have purchased an Intel Mac a month ago, who would be turning down an M1 Mac now. I mean, if you absolutely *have* to run Windows, natively, booted directly via BootCamp, then yes, you're probably out of the running, but when the benchmarks running Windows/ARM in a hypervisor environment are faster than Windows/Intel directly on the old machines... that's kind of interesting.
I’m still hoping for one last Intel 16-inch MBP.

Failing that, I’ll probably have to go back to a two-computer setup. Ew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
My post might not have been worded as clearly as it should have been.

I meant that the engineering resources could have been better utilized on the new Apple Silicon Macs.

The Apple Silicon iMac was never going to debut today. But maybe the Pro line could be here faster if Apple Engineering wasn't busy designing and building $800 headphones that no-one was really asking for.
Gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I just think they put a lot of priority/emphasis on the consumer electronics/"lifestyle" angle these days. Right or wrong, good or bad, that seems to be the company they are, and then "oh, yeah...we make computers too".

Although I'm hoping this M1 stuff is the sign of a returned emphasis on that front in the coming years. Because Macs sometimes have felt like an afterthought in recent years, sure enough. But I guess not all of that can be laid at Apple's feet? I don't know.
Macs have felt underappreciated for a while, yes, but I wouldn’t say that’s true for the past year or three. And Apple did just ship a bunch of astonishingly fast Macs.
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