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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-09, 15:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


I honestly don't mind freelancing outside the usual product matrix. But this is all kinds of crazy.

We're in the middle of the most important chip transition in the Mac's history. Why waste four years in time and engineering resources on a niche product that no-one is clamouring for?

I'm sure the new headphones sound terrific and the 47 microphones inside will make quick work of relaying your most private thoughts directly to Google, Facebook, Five Eyes, Putin, Beijing, and Amazon. In Dolby surround sound.

But Bose and Sony can already satisfy my overpriced audio gear needs.

No one else on Earth can build me a 30" Apple Silicon iMac.
Don't forget, they are a huge company and plenty of people working on different projects. If they were a small shop I would understand your point, but they have the manpower to work on many totally different products now. Not that I care about the new headphones, but that is beside the point.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-09, 15:37

Just think. If Ford would just stop spending resources on missiles, and cars and such, they could focus all of their manpower on the F450 SuperDuty!

I mean, there are almost 12 people in line for that thing.

Jerks!


Apple picked exactly the right computers to start with. They're sailing out of our shop like crazy, and the line is growing.

Oh, by the way: SOC engineers and audio engineers are not the same field.

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PB PM
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2020-12-09, 15:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
I guess I wouldn't ever consider a Mac mini to be a "builder's" machine, so perhaps that's the confusion point. I was thinking ATX case, select a mobo and PSU, CPU, etc, etc, and you know... build it. Those folks obviously aren't going to be buying Apple no matter what the performance is like.
Dead wrong. Most Windows users I know find the Mini the most compelling Mac. mind you I’m not talking about the types that would buy a Dell/HP/Acer/ASUS prebuilt machine. I for one am a builder, by your definition, yet I also own three Macs (iMac + 2 Mac Mini). As a builder, a Mac Mini is there perfect Mac for the few Apple apps that I prefer to use over Windows software. I already have several high quality 1440p monitors, I have no use for an iMac now, and wouldn’t buy one again.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 15:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Macs have felt underappreciated for a while, yes, but I wouldn’t say that’s true for the past year or three. And Apple did just ship a bunch of astonishingly fast Macs.
I know this. That's why I said what I said...

Quote:
Although I'm hoping this M1 stuff is the sign of a returned emphasis on that front in the coming years.
Things seem hopeful/positive/fun now with this stuff coming out, and the power it represents.

Things are exciting/interesting on the Mac side again.
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chucker
 
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2020-12-09, 17:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Oh, by the way: SOC engineers and audio engineers are not the same field.
At the end of the day, someone higher up greenlights product launches, and they can only say yes to so many things.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-12-09, 17:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
At the end of the day, someone higher up greenlights product launches, and they can only say yes to so many things.
True, but Apple have tech engineers working on stuff regardless what products get launched. The Apple Silicon SOC guys are not getting cancelled, nor is their work dependent on the launch of headphones, and nor are audio engineers going to have much impact on what is happening in the Apple Silicon labs, short of sharing their needs with the SOC design team.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-12-10, 02:02

Used an M1 MacBook Air briefly this evening. Holy shit. The speed increase in everything is incredible.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2020-12-11, 00:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Dead wrong.
I stand corrected. So, do you feel the move to an Apple CPU is a deal-breaker?
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PB PM
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2020-12-11, 10:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
I stand corrected. So, do you feel the move to an Apple CPU is a deal-breaker?
For my use case it doesn’t make any difference at all, I don’t use bootcamp anymore since I have a dedicated high end PC for Windows software. Of course that PC is now totally outclassed in terms of CPU performance by the M1, other than that I have PC loaded up with 48GB of RAM, and a more powerful GPU for editing work.

If I was using a ton of VMs I might be concerned, but even that might not be a big deal from the sounds of things.
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Yontsey
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2020-12-15, 08:03

Just ordered myself a Mac Mini 16GB RAM/256GB SSD as a new work computer. My 2012 MBP that I had be using as a desktop for the last few years is starting to show it's age.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-15, 08:36

I would think so. I know the feeling, with my 2007, and as of last year, 2013 Macs.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-12-16, 14:52

Apple is crushing itself with the M1, and now they're crushing Windows on ARM, and by no small margin.
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PB PM
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2020-12-16, 15:56

No surprise, Window is poorly optimized for ARM based chips, even the native version.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-12-16, 16:24

I suspect that Microsoft is hard at work trying to fix that problem.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-16, 16:25

Well, they already have Office native to M1 so they know how to do it... even if it is with Xcode.
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chucker
 
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2020-12-16, 17:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Apple is crushing itself with the M1, and now they're crushing Windows on ARM, and by no small margin.
That headline is… well… technically accurate but kind of silly. What's being "smashed" is the utterly terrible Qualcomm SQ2 they put in the Surface Pro X. Windows is largely irrelevant in that comparison.

I don't know if Microsoft messed up or Qualcomm did or both of them, but hopefully, all these M1 headlines "inspire" someone at Microsoft and/or Qualcomm to put the foot on the gas again.

The M1 and SQ2 are actually amusingly simple to compare: they draw similar amounts of power, they both run at roughly 3.2 GHz, and they're both a 4+4 core setup. (edit) Oh, and both use TSMC as the manufacturer*.

(Side note: I hope some future Geekbench update will take these heterogenous setups into account. Even Intel is moving towards them, so listing cores as a singular integer number of "8 cores" just doesn't make sense any more.)

Core by core, the M1 is roughly 2.1 times as fast: it scores around in single-core on Geekbench, whereas the SQ2 scores around 800. On top of that, Apple's core scheduler seems to be more efficient (or their use of efficiency cores in addition to performance ones is more aggressive), as the factor is even higher for multiple cores, at about 2.4.

Qualcomm's phone CPUs are actually about 10% faster, which is not nothing, and they have to accomplish that with less thermal headroom, so I'm not sure why they do so poorly on the tablet CPU front. The explanation I come away with is they're not trying.

*) to be fair, the SQ2 is still 7nm, not 5nm. So that does give Apple some gains, but it doesn't come close to explaining the discrepancy.
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chucker
 
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2020-12-16, 17:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
No surprise, Window is poorly optimized for ARM based chips, even the native version.
Let's be clear, Windows, virtualized and not optimized (hacked together by someone in their spare time), still runs 60% faster on an M1 than natively on SQ2.

https://mspoweruser.com/apple-m1-vs-...2-geekbench-5/

It's the SQ2 that's the shitshow here, not Windows.
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PB PM
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2020-12-16, 20:32

Given that the M1 is far better than Qualcomm's best ARM stuff, no surprise. Let's face it Qualcomm is getting to be like Intel, AX chips have been pounding the Snapdragon chips for how long now? Apple is basically a generation or maybe two ahead of the other ARM based CPUs on the market.
  quote
Graculus
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
 
2020-12-22, 11:58

Here's a strange one.

The only thing stopping me pulling the trigger on a couple of M1 Macs (Mini and Air) is my seemingly antiquated Adobe software. I own (outright, who'd a thunk it) the last non-rental Creative Suite. It doesn't work on Catalina, let alone Big Sur, so I'm currently stranded on Mojave.

I will one day no doubt be wrestled in to taking a CS plan for Photoshop, but I also use Illustrator and In Design a few times a year - not a lot, but vital - but not going to rent the full CS suite no matter what. Stubborn see.

Long winded introduction, to a very short question...
With the new M1 Macs only running 64bit, my CS is toast, would I be able to run a Windows version of old CS Illustrator and in Design in Parallels or something, on the M1 Macs?

And of course, Is the old licence valid for Windows as well as OS X?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-12-22, 12:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graculus View Post
With the new M1 Macs only running 64bit, my CS is toast, would I be able to run a Windows version of old CS Illustrator and in Design in Parallels or something, on the M1 Macs?
Yeah, you can probably do that in Parallels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graculus View Post
And of course, Is the old licence valid for Windows as well as OS X?
No idea.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-22, 12:20

Parallels in beta only runs ARM versions of the OS. So far no x86 emulation support for M1 Macs.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-22, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graculus View Post
With the new M1 Macs only running 64bit, my CS is toast, would I be able to run a Windows version of old CS Illustrator and in Design in Parallels or something, on the M1 Macs?
Windows is currently not supported on M1 Macs, even through virtualization. Because Windows is X86, and the M1 is ARM, "virtualization" goes back to the old Virtual PC days where the entire X86 architecture must be virtualized, and Parallels does not do this (at least not on the Mac).

There have been rumblings that Windows for ARM could solve the problem, but Microsoft has not yet licensed it so it is a non-starter.

Basically, the answer is "no". At least not yet. If Microsoft is smart, Windows for ARM will be license-able (is that a word?) by the end of 2021.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-22, 12:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graculus View Post
Here's a strange one.

The only thing stopping me pulling the trigger on a couple of M1 Macs (Mini and Air) is my seemingly antiquated Adobe software. I own (outright, who'd a thunk it) the last non-rental Creative Suite. It doesn't work on Catalina, let alone Big Sur, so I'm currently stranded on Mojave.

I will one day no doubt be wrestled in to taking a CS plan for Photoshop, but I also use Illustrator and In Design a few times a year - not a lot, but vital - but not going to rent the full CS suite no matter what. Stubborn see.

Long winded introduction, to a very short question...
With the new M1 Macs only running 64bit, my CS is toast, would I be able to run a Windows version of old CS Illustrator and in Design in Parallels or something, on the M1 Macs?

And of course, Is the old licence valid for Windows as well as OS X?
Pixelmator Pro for Photoshop, Affinity Publisher for InDesign, Vectorstyler for Illustrator.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-22, 12:51

Graculus, I don't know your specific needs and compatibility concerns, but I can expand on Frank777's suggestions a bit. I ditched Adobe nearly two years ago and I bought both Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo 12-18 months ago and I've yet to run into anything that I couldn't do before with the Adobe versions.

Off-topic (click to toggle):
You buy them outright - I got both for $25 because Affinity put them on sale, half off, a year or so ago and I jumped on it like a rabbit. But you own them, they're very nimble and load fast. Yes, you have to re-learn some things, but I'm finding that I prefer a lot of those changes to what I was used to in the Adobe stuff for two decades. After a year or so, I find I'm just as comfortable and speedy and have "re-trained" myself (well before now, BTW) to "unlearn" all I knew before and embrace the new.

For the record, I mostly do standalone artwork that I hand off to others, so my collaboration/compatibility concerns are near-zero...but it's yet to have raised any issues, me no longer being on the "industry standard" titles. Naturally, they export to all the formats you'd expect. I do realize I may be in a rare (lucky) situation where I can make such a move. But if you're in a similar boat, give them a shot. I don't know the current situation, but I do know that the Affinity titles all had 30-day trial downloads (which is what convinced me to make the jump a year or so ago).

EDIT: the free trials are still available...go to the "buy now" button and you get the option to download/install a free trial there.

Affinity does offer a publishing/layout title called Publisher, so they're kinda covering that Illustrator/Photoshop/InDesign suite from Adobe. I can speak for Publisher (I'll own it eventually, just because I'm so happy with the other two and I occasionally have to do a simple four-page newsletter or brochure).

And before I discovered the Affinity stuff, I spent a solid 4-6 years using, and liking, Pixelmator (I ditched Photoshop years before I did Illustrator).

Also, the Affinity stuff is all Big Sure and M1 ready/compatible.

You own them, and they have iPad versions of these titles as well.

If I can step away from my beloved Illustrator after 25 years of exclusive, full-time use, I imagine many others can too (if their situations allow; mine did).

Here's their site...give it a look. You might like what you see.


Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into an Affinity infomercial. But I'll do the "off-topic" tags so folks don't have to look at it if they don't want.
  quote
Graculus
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
 
2020-12-22, 12:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Pixelmator Pro for Photoshop, Affinity Publisher for InDesign, Vectorstyler for Illustrator.
Yep, all fine software for new projects, but tweaking bits of large decade old projects for annual updates ain't likely to fly sadly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Windows is currently not supported on M1 Macs, even through virtualization. Because Windows is X86, and the M1 is ARM, "virtualization" goes back to the old Virtual PC days where the entire X86 architecture must be virtualized, and Parallels does not do this (at least not on the Mac).

There have been rumblings that Windows for ARM could solve the problem, but Microsoft has not yet licensed it so it is a non-starter.

Basically, the answer is "no". At least not yet. If Microsoft is smart, Windows for ARM will be license-able (is that a word?) by the end of 2021.

And as the Creative Suites in question have the same issues in Windows 10 as they do in Catalina, looks like it is indeed a non-starter. M$ won't be porting Vista or ME over to ARM will they!


Oh well, thanks for the clarifications. Merry Christmas everybody!
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-22, 12:56

Yeah, I know Affinity offers a full suite.

But I like Pixelmator a bit more than Photo, and I don't want to be held captive to another software behemoth ever again.
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Graculus
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sheffield, UK
 
2020-12-22, 13:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I ditched Adobe nearly two years ago and I bought both Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo 12-18 months ago and I've yet to run into anything that I couldn't do before with the Adobe versions.
I too have those two (and not publisher), I don't use them in anger, though may do when I move to apple silicon.

But it's the legacy and collaboration issues mean I have to have Adobe stuffs somewhere, sometimes. To be fair, I use Photoshop a great deal, and will likely plumb for that at some point, but the yearly need for Illustrator and In Design won't be handled by other software without a great deal of transitional work at my end - and frankly - I'm too lazy, and it's not financially worthy of it :-)
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-22, 13:01

Pixelmator is nice. I still have the non-pro version. I don't really use it anymore, but it was my go-to app of that type for years. It's a good, solid choice too. That was my first experience with new, modern (designed from the ground-up for OS X/Macs) "Adobe killer" titles and it's really good! Probably even better now than when I was using it a lot, a few years ago.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-22, 13:03

I don't use them in anger either. I just like them, and at this point I'm just not looking/needing to spend Adobe-level money to do what I do. I'm lucky. Many aren't, I realize. But, so far, I've been able to do just fine!
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-12-22, 13:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graculus View Post
Yep, all fine software for new projects, but tweaking bits of large decade old projects for annual updates ain't likely to fly sadly.
Gotcha. Although Pixelmator's on sale on the App Store for $27.99, Publisher is $69.99 and VectorStyler is currently in Beta.
(All figures in Canadian Dollars.)

So you could test them all out for a little over the cost of one month on Creative Cloud.



Edit: Okay, I see you already have the Affinity suite and still need the legacy stuff.
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