[apple007]

Last year, Jobs flatly said 3G wouldn't be coming to the iPhone until battery performance for 3G-enabled devices improved significantly. Now, less than a year later, a 3G-enabled iPhone appears headed to the market, perhaps as soon as May or June of this year.

Since I don't follow technical specs/advancements too much -- okay, not at all -- have there been advancements in battery life under 3G, or is Apple backpedaling on Jobs' 2007 pronouncement because so many markets (and/or U.S. buyers) are apparently holding out for a 3G model?

Based on the current state of affairs, should a 3G iPhone yield the same, better or worse battery life as the current model?

On a related note, I've read that the touch screen on the next-gen iPhone is slimmer and could allow for an overall slimmer iPhone. But instead of shipping a slimmer iPhone, does anyone think Apple might simply reuse the space savings for a bigger battery to compensate for any additional battery drain caused by 3G (or to simply yield more battery life, period)? (I wouldn't mind a slimmer iPhone, but I don't consider the current model to be too big or thick, etc. I'd prefer longer battery life to a slimmer form factor.)

[zippy]

Originally Posted by apple007 Last year, Jobs flatly said 3G wouldn't be coming to the iPhone until battery performance for 3G-enabled devices improved significantly. Now, less than a year later, a 3G-enabled iPhone appears headed to the market, perhaps as soon as May or June of this year. Since I don't follow technical specs/advancements too much -- okay, not at all -- have there been advancements in battery life under 3G, or is Apple backpedaling on Jobs' 2007 pronouncement because so many markets (and/or U.S. buyers) are apparently holding out for a 3G model? Based on the current state of affairs, should a 3G iPhone yield the same, better or worse battery life as the current model? On a related note, I've read that the touch screen on the next-gen iPhone is slimmer and could allow for an overall slimmer iPhone. But instead of shipping a slimmer iPhone, does anyone think Apple might simply reuse the space savings for a bigger battery to compensate for any additional battery drain caused by 3G (or to simply yield more battery life, period)? (I wouldn't mind a slimmer iPhone, but I don't consider the current model to be too big or thick, etc. I'd prefer longer battery life to a slimmer form factor.)

The new display is rumored to be OLED, which is where the thought that thinner iPhones are capable comes from. Of course, OLED should also consume less battery than the existing units. I don't know what the actual differentials will be, but it's possible that they could achieve current battery timeframes and still make it thinner. Of course, they could also stick with the current size specs, make the battery larger, and get more battery life.

Then again, they could use that space to do something along the lines of GPS, so who knows.

I'd put my money on same size, but longer battery life.

[psmith2.0]

I put my money on slightly thinner, same (or more) battery life (via advances in tech and magic fairy iDust).

[scratt]

When the 3G thing was being discussed (way back at the iPhone launch) wasn't one of the 3G chip manufacturers trialing a new chip (with much lower power consumption) which was predicted to be the chip that Apple / SJ was waiting for?

WIth the addition of OLED I think that will effectively give Apple some wiggle room on battery life, and the ability to go ahead with the new 3G iPhones.

I kind of hope they don't go thinner still. The iPhone is a nice form factor, and could do with as much power as possible. Right now power management is the main reason that we have certain limitations on what 3rd Party Apps can do.. It would be nice to see this relaxed a little.

Then again, I don't know why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist over 3G anyway.. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Really. Most real world implementations globally still have some bandwidth issues and are certainly not as fast as they are 'supposed' to be.

[psmith2.0]

It's not even here, where I live (as far as I know). At some point, I guess, it will be and it'll be nice to have. I can understand why some people are craving it.

A new article at MacRumors about it all.

[Gizzer]

I've never understood Jobs initial statement about 3G battery life in the first place. All the major manufacturers have been making small, slim 3G phones for a couple of years now with no real battery performance issues to speak of. A couple even have large touch screens (the main battery drain).

I'm guessing it's more just a case of Apple getting into new tech (ie phones) and not wanting to try 2 new hard things at once: Creating groundbreaking phone as your first attempt = Hard. Creating 3G groundbreaking phone at your first attempt = Freaking impossible

[scratt]

Not really. When the iPhone was in development 3G chips were a lot more power hungry... couple that with the amount of other wireless things on the iPhone and battery life was a real issue.. Still is today.

You can zap an iPhone really quick if you write a program which repetitively checks the phones location. It's all about power management and 3G would have been the straw that broke the camels back..

It's also not a widely adopted system.. Not any where as widely as GPRS, EDGE or 2.5G (whatever you want to call it).

Very sound reasons for not going 3G at launch.

The difference in adding 3G into the mix with what they did for the first iPhone. Just a different set of firmware, and slightly different silicon. Not really that taxing.

[julesstoop]

Originally Posted by Gizzer I've never understood Jobs initial statement about 3G battery life in the first place. All the major manufacturers have been making small, slim 3G phones for a couple of years now with no real battery performance issues to speak of.

But iPhone users actually (want to) use their device to go online and browse the internet and/or watch youtube clips. I think Steve Jobs took that effect into account as well.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by julesstoop But iPhone users actually (want to) use their device to go online and browse the internet and/or watch youtube clips. I think Steve Jobs took that effect into account as well.

That is a very valid point IMO.

[WrestleEwe]

Originally Posted by apple007 Last year, Jobs flatly said...

And that's where you went wrong.

Steve (and Apple) say a lot of things (including my .sig for instance). But the things they say are meant only to be remembered until something else is said.

3G battery life has always sucked, and will suck forever. Until the iPhone3G is released, then 3G will always have been the future. Oceania has always been at war with east-asia. Steve warned us about that with his very first big commercial.

[nikstar101]

I still believe that WIFI is far more useful that 3G. But Apple does have to move with the times and now half of all phones in stores (in the UK) are 3G. Therefore it has to update. But the battery life on 3G is still not good. Most phones you see with 3G show standby or talk time but they don't mention battery life when using 3G.

The problem is that the iPhone has such great internet capabilities that people would use the 3G all the time and kill the battery.

[jcoley2]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I still believe that WIFI is far more useful that 3G.

I was just at my local AT&T store and asked him the speed difference from what ew get now versus the 3G network. He told me 70kb vs 200kb. If that's all the improvement, I would be seriously disappointed.

[Partial]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I still believe that WIFI is far more useful that 3G. But Apple does have to move with the times and now half of all phones in stores (in the UK) are 3G. Therefore it has to update. But the battery life on 3G is still not good. Most phones you see with 3G show standby or talk time but they don't mention battery life when using 3G. The problem is that the iPhone has such great internet capabilities that people would use the 3G all the time and kill the battery.

Maybe they could make the batt user replaceable then... NAHHHH

[julesstoop]

Don't forget they're still trying to sell the current model, so there's no incentive to exaggerate 3G's capabilities.

[apple007]

Originally Posted by scratt I kind of hope they don't go thinner still. The iPhone is a nice form factor, and could do with as much power as possible. Right now power management is the main reason that we have certain limitations on what 3rd Party Apps can do.. It would be nice to see this relaxed a little.

Agreed, even without considering the third-party apps angle.

Originally Posted by scratt You can zap an iPhone really quick if you write a program which repetitively checks the phones location. It's all about power management and 3G would have been the straw that broke the camels back..

Almost assuredly true. I was still using POP email when I got my iPhone last July, and just checking/downloading email could drain the battery relatively quickly, as could using Safari. (The battery seems very good, though; I just got a week of standby in Airplane mode (I'm in Mexico) with over 10 hours of usage (mostly iPod) before I had to recharge, and the battery is now almost 9 months old.)

Originally Posted by scratt It's also not a widely adopted system.. Not any where as widely as GPRS, EDGE or 2.5G (whatever you want to call it).

Speaking of EDGE, it's safe to say that if 3G isn't available in a certain area, a 3G iPhone will still connect to EDGE, correct?

Originally Posted by WrestleEwe And that's where you went wrong. Steve (and Apple) say a lot of things (including my .sig for instance). But the things they say are meant only to be remembered until something else is said.

I know about Steve's RDF, etc., but this didn't seem like his usual M.O. of bad-mouthing something and then reinventing it. It seemed to be a genuine disclaimer that he and Apple simply weren't happy with 3G battery life in 2007 and that people shouldn't expect a 3G iPhone unless/until it would get around the same battery life as the first-gen model. (As it was, battery life was one of the main gripes when iPhone launched last year, so adding a capability that could drain the battery even faster seemed unlikely unless progress was made.)

[turtle]

Originally Posted by jcoley2 I was just at my local AT&T store and asked him the speed difference from what ew get now versus the 3G network. He told me 70kb vs 200kb. If that's all the improvement, I would be seriously disappointed.

Oh, this isn't accurate in my area at all. I went from about 50-100k to normally 300-1000k with peaks at 1400k.

[apple007]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 Oh, this isn't accurate in my area at all. I went from about 50-100k to normally 300-1000k with peaks at 1400k.

Damn, how'd you get a 3G iPhone already?

[scratt]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 Oh, this isn't accurate in my area at all. I went from about 50-100k to normally 300-1000k with peaks at 1400k.

The 1400k was when you were the only 3G user in the area (and you were standing next to the tower), and when it went to 300K two other people were using 3G in your area!

[turtle]

Originally Posted by apple007 Damn, how'd you get a 3G iPhone already?

I'm special.

Originally Posted by scratt The 1400k was when you were the only 3G user in the area (and you were standing next to the tower), and when it went to 300K two other people were using 3G in your area!

You're probably really close to right on. I live about 1/4 mile from the tower if what I hear is right and just for giggles I decided to test my speed (knowing it's still high usage time) at I managed to get a whopping 273k. I am on the more expensive plan though that uses AT&T's ISP AP rather than the common WAP AP.

[Partial]

EV-DO would look really good right now.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 EV-DO would look really good right now.

I don't see that happening. Apple will likely move to HSDPA.

Still waiting for an iPhone-like 3G cellphone without laughable performance, though.

[veryamusing]

I have just been informed by a friend of mine, a Mac Specialist, that the store he works at has been out of iPhones for a week. He said this may mean an update is imminent. Here's hoping!

[Robo]

It is CTIA Wireless, here in Vegas. (That's one of the big wireless trade shows.) But Apple usually isn't one to time their updates to coincide with existing events; certainly a new iPhone would be cause enough for Apple to host one of their own. So I don't see a new iPhone this week, sorry.

But wouldn't that be the best if Apple announced a 3G iPhone on the first day of CTIA? Everyone would think it was an April Fool's joke at first, like Gmail. And April 1 is an extra special day to Apple fans, so it would be double-sweet. Too bad it didn't happen.

[scratt]

Don't expect much until June.. RIght now it's just a genuine stock shortage.

[noleli2]

I was going to start a new thread, but since this one has turned into general 3G iPhone discussion....

What are the chances of the upcoming release having 32 GB? I really want to get an iPhone, but I won't until it can hold my entire 15+ GB library with plenty of room to spare. Thanks.

[psmith2.0]

I'm not sure, but that's definitely my "sweet spot" as well (the 32GB iPhone). On my next go-around (2009 or 2010?), I'm sure those will be common. I've got just under 16GB music and currently, with my 4GB iPhone, I do the custom playlist thing, just throwing my absolute favorites into it (and swapping chunks out every once in a while to keep it fresh).

But the day that the iPhone has, minimum, 32GB, then it's truly an iPod replacement for me, and I'll just put every single song, photograph and video I own on the thing.

That'll be neat.

I'm not sure if it'll reach that high this next time around; I'm not sure on the cost or supply of those things, and how that plays into it all. But I would think that with all the third-party software that will be coming out in the latter half of 2008 (and beyond), that 8GB, eventually, is going to either go away or be used for some "lower cost" iPhone variant, and things like 16 and 32GB will be on the main models.

Then again, Apple is already using 32GB for the iPod touch, and if they're looking to make a big splash with a 3G, iPhone 2.0, they may very well do that on this upcoming release, offering a 32GB model.

[Taskiss]

Originally Posted by jcoley2 I was just at my local AT&T store and asked him the speed difference from what ew get now versus the 3G network. He told me 70kb vs 200kb. If that's all the improvement, I would be seriously disappointed.

FYI -

Characteristics of 3G phones were spelled out by the International Telecommunication Union's (ITU's) IMT2000 guidelines announced last year. In general, a 3G phone should permit global roaming and have packet-based rather than circuit-switched data-transmission capability. The data rate should be at least 144 kbits/s from a moving vehicle, 384 kbits/s at pedestrian speed, and 2 Mbits/s from a fixed location. This makes such applications as e-mail, Internet access, and even video transmissions possible.

http://electronicdesign.com/Articles...ArticleID=4204

[psmith2.0]

What do you guys make of this?



Those ColorWare phones, I think, cover the Apple logo and text ("iPhone (8GB)", etc.), and there is a bit of a line between the back and the bottom part with the black antenna housing.

Of course, both of those things are extremely easy to fake in Photoshop, aren't they? The line could easily be cloned out and the type could be re-set and angled/skewed to make this pic.

Chances are, some smartass with a glossy black ColorWare iPhone just did a little work in Photoshop.

But if not...

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 Maybe they could make the batt user replaceable then... NAHHHH

That would be the ultimate solution wouldn't it? People couldn't complain, but they still would. This time about how quickly their battery had worn down.

But it would certainly be a key differentiator from the first gen iPhone. This may very well spur current owners to pass their iPhones to someone else to purchase a new 3G one for themselves. But this makes so much sense that you're right....Nahhhh ;-)