[Mac Donald]

Is there any reason -- ANY -- why Apple went with Express Card 34 over Express Card 54 in the MB Pro? This decision was assinine. The two use the same technology and indeed use the same plug (the 54 just is a bigger card), yet the 54 size is more versatile because of its size -- for example, the size of a 34 card makes it so a Compact Flash Card Reader would never work, but it would work with a 54 card. A sizeable portion of MacBook Pro users are also users of digital camers that utilize Compact Flash Cards.

Is this just a typical Apple f--- you to its loyal customer base? Sometimes, they really make me mad. Now, I'm going to have to have a USB card reader instead of a PC-card one. It may not seem like a big deal, but how many little usb devices have you lost? I lose a lot --- yet I have never lost a PC Card in my life. STill have my old USB card for my WallStreet PowerBook (the one without native usb).

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Mac Donald Is there any reason -- ANY -- why Apple went with Express Card 34 over Express Card 54 in the MB Pro?

Yes, lack of space.

[rollercoaster375]

Maybe... They intend on having a *real* Thin & Light Pro notebook, and wanted to have them use the same technology?

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by chucker Yes, lack of space.

There's plenty of space on my MacBook Pro for an extra 20 mm. So that doesn't cut it.

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster375 Maybe... They intend on having a *real* Thin & Light Pro notebook, and wanted to have them use the same technology?

A more plausible explanation. But I understand that 34 mm cards work in 54 mm slots. Both use the same plugs.

[Luca]

I agree, it's very stupid. This is akin to Sony and other companies using 4-pin Firewire instead of 6-pin. It's basically the same, except a little worse. 4-pin Firewire requires an adapter for nearly every device other than DV cameras, and it doesn't provide bus power which further limits its usefulness. ExpressCard/54 is much more versatile than its 34mm cousin, and it's compatible with 34mm ones as well. The MacBook Pro is big enough - there's no reason not to include the 54mm-wide slot.

[chucker]

It is internally currently not big enough; they could have possibly rearranged things, but opted not to. The MBP was designed primarily with being as compact, thin, small, light, call it what you want, in mind, not with "OMG FEATUREZZZ". I agree that the lack of ExpressCard/54 is painful, but to insinuate that Apple is doing it for malicious reasons (e.g. "they want to make ExpressCard look bad") is just equally stupid.

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by chucker I agree that the lack of ExpressCard/54 is painful, but to insinuate that Apple is doing it for malicious reasons (e.g. "they want to make ExpressCard look bad") is just equally stupid.

They could fairly easily have found the space internally. I'm not saying that they are doing it for "malicious reasons" -- just typical Apple reasons, which are not always readily apparent or frankly logical. Luca's analogy to Sony is spot on. Both Apple and Sony have a habit of doing things like this.

[tacvbo83]

What kind/type of cards are available to fit the MBP? (i mean as in what uses are there in cards available)

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by tacvbo83 What kind/type of cards are available to fit the MBP? (i mean as in what uses are there in cards available)

No Express Card 34 cards (or 54 for that matter) are yet commercially available in the United States to my knowledge. There are plenty on the horizon however. EVDO, FireWire 800 and Card Readers will probably appear first, but expect in due course all sorts of things including HDTV tuners and other things not possible with current PC cards. My problem with Apple's decision here has nothing to do with the Express Card standard but with use of the 34 size instead of the 54 size.

[tacvbo83]

sounds promising

[dfiler]

Heheh, this takes me back to the days of bitching about lack of full length PCI slots.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by Mac Donald They could fairly easily have found the space internally.

Exactly how do you know this? It strikes me as unlikely for two reasons: the MacBook is smaller than any competitor's offering (and I'm sure the competitors didn't needlessly make their products large), and why would Apple not have used the 54 mm design if they did have the space? Certainly they could have made the product larger to accommodate this and other features, but they didn't.

You'll note that Sony and Apple are very successful companies and the source of cultural phenomena such as the Walkman, iPod, iMac and PSP. These products were not successful because they had as many options and features packed into them as possible, but because they placed a higher value on design and small size than the competing products at the time. By buying an Apple notebook you are buying into that philosophy, of progress over satisfying every whim of every spec-whore out there.

This is the reason for Apple's success, despite the whining from the geeks every time Apple steps forward and drags the competition along.

[Kickaha]

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/85.1.7.html

Bottom pic. Big silver box with white label is hard drive. Just up and left of that, smaller silver box is EC34 unit. I'm not seeing another 20mm there.

[Matsu]

The pinout for either 34 or 54 is identical. The 54 is an odly shaped piece designed for easier heat dissapation, and possibly port replication. It doesn't really extract the full benefit of it's wider chassis because of the odd shape, but it can swallow CF Cards internally (via adaptor).

Built-in card readers are fast becoming an afterthought, however. It's not that I don't think they're useful, but the days of the microdrive are essentially over. 34 won't swallow a CF card internally, but increasingly it doesn't matter, and it's obvious in the design of the Expresscard spec, but more on that in a sec. USB2 will feature on any pro level camera, at least. With Flash prices continuing to fall rapidly, most consumers will only ever use one flash card, and it won't leave the camera, they'll just sync up via USB2. Some pros will miss CF adaptors, but it's not critical.

I blame the standards group that defined Expresscard. There's no good reason for two variations on the theme, regardless of what the expresscard group may say. 54 can provide more space, and had they wanted it utilized they should have spec'd ONLY 54. Or, if CF was a prime consideration, they could have kept the 43mm width of PCMCIA. It obviously wasn't: a) because manufacturers are anxious to repace CF with the smaller Flash formats, and b) because they didn't care to ensure physical compatibility within the standard. Instead we have two variations on a standard -- you might get it, you might not.

Perhaps Apple should have played it safe and spec'd a 54mm slot. You'd buy a 54 card or 34, and both would work, but if in the fullness of time, 34 became mainstream and 54 disappeared, you might get stuck with an unuseable 54mm card on any subsequent purchase, though I admitt that it's more likely to bring new cards to an older machine than vice versa. If instead the spec'd slot is 34, you may not have the use of 54mm cards (should that be the prevailing format)

I think, however, that 34 will be the prevailing format. Card makers will want their cards to work everywhere. That's easier to do by designing 34mm cards. Where heat and port space are at issue, that is easily overcome by allowing the card to protrude somewhat, and has been the popular solution for PC Card port replication.

This is a good standard, but it's all about future FAST I/O upgrades, expansion chassis and the like, not card readers. What I'd really love to see Apple do is put an expresscard slot on ALL their laptops and consumer desktops so that their customers have a little peace of mind with respect to I/O

[intlplby]

imagine if apple went with 54mm.... and then introduces a 12"/13" macbook /macbook pro.......

more than likely the 54mm will definitely not fit the smaller notebook.....

this means that there will be less options for 34mm cards... but making the entire like use 34mm, apple essentially forces card manufacturers to use the smaller standard

it forces people to keep up with the best available technology....... it also forces the manufacturers to create cards that work in a variety of notebooks.....

[Frank777]

They have to keep something for Revision 2.

[Franz Josef]

Originally Posted by intlplby more than likely the 54mm will definitely not fit the smaller notebook.....

This is absolutely right. Using the smaller variant is entirely consistent with Apple's love of miniturisation and keeness to force the marketplace. The 54 just isn't as nimble and won't fit into smaller mobiles devices. They've (rather forcefully) decided to allow a market for 34mm peripherals to be created.

[rollercoaster375]

Originally Posted by intlplby imagine if apple went with 54mm.... and then introduces a 12"/13" macbook /macbook pro....... more than likely the 54mm will definitely not fit the smaller notebook..... this means that there will be less options for 34mm cards... but making the entire like use 34mm, apple essentially forces card manufacturers to use the smaller standard it forces people to keep up with the best available technology....... it also forces the manufacturers to create cards that work in a variety of notebooks.....

What an original thought...

Originally Posted by Me, Earlier in the thread Maybe... They intend on having a *real* Thin & Light Pro notebook, and wanted to have them use the same technology?

[intlplby]

not original at all... i read it in a post from a macintouch poster

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray You'll note that Sony and Apple are very successful companies and the source of cultural phenomena such as the Walkman, iPod, iMac and PSP. These products were not successful because they had as many options and features packed into them as possible, but because they placed a higher value on design and small size than the competing products at the time. By buying an Apple notebook you are buying into that philosophy, of progress over satisfying every whim of every spec-whore out there. This is the reason for Apple's success, despite the whining from the geeks every time Apple steps forward and drags the competition along.

Somebody call the whambulance. Sorry to insult your favorite companies, but unlike you apparently, I am not under the impression that everything Apple does is for my good and any questioning of their design is improper and insulting. Get back to staring deep at your pic of Jobs. . . .

[Kickaha]

Aaaaaaaand, the insults begin.

Good show!

[Banana]

Driver! Ticket for one, please! Nonstop, too!

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by Mac Donald I am not under the impression that everything Apple does is for my good and any questioning of their design is improper and insulting.

You want them to make the notebook bigger to fit in an ExpressCard/54, while I'd rather they continue on the track they're on, namely, sacrificing features of dubious usefulness for compact packaging. I just reminded you that Apple is successful exactly because they ignore the wishes of people like you who don't appreciate the value of compact size and can't understand Jonathan Ive's 21st century design language.

I thought lawyers were pretty clued up about style, but apparently there's still the odd bearded anorak in their ranks.