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The Pope's condition - reflections on life


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The Pope's condition - reflections on life
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Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2005-04-02, 06:10

I hope this isn't just self-indulgence. I'm not a Catholic and have never had any particular closeness with the Church in Rome. I've been following the Pope's declining health though - via the BBC (news.bbc.co.uk) , Vatican (vatican.va) and Spiegel (spiegel.de) websites.

I'm overwhelmed by the courage and dignity he's shown as he moves towards (what is probably) his death. I guess this is what Caholics mean by dying well. I'm touched - and it struck me that I wanted to die well too, when my time comes. I think he's had more of an impression on me in death than in life.
 
scratt
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
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2005-04-02, 06:48

No disrespect but if I was supremely confident that I was the "direct conduit of God's will on Earth for all mankind" and I had spent my entire life believing that I would go to heaven and live forever in paradise I would look a bit stupid if I was scared of dieing.

To a devout religeous person, even more so to a leader of an entire religion the thought of death should be no more frightening than going for an operation which might be a bit painful.. When you wake up you are going to be fine..

If an F1 driver started moaning about how scary it was to go fast and how he didn't want to die we would all call him a bit of a "scardy cat", wouldn't we?

To me a religious icon that doesn't deal with death well is not worth much at all!!

My only regret is that there isn't a five second period of grace after death where someone can tell people who are relegeous that they are now dead and they spent their entire life believing in a false and rediculous fiction invented by an inbult flaw in human-kind.. NOw that would be a punch line!

Sorry.. BUt I am a 100% not for turning when you are dead you are dead athiest and I think the best thing the Catholic Church could do, and all churches for that matter is to sell off their property and give it back to the poor.

*Don's flame retardant suit* *Goes into bomb shelter* *Locks door*

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
 
Powerdoc
Cat's Dreamlands
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-04-02, 07:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt

I think the best thing the Catholic Church could do, and all churches for that matter is to sell off their property and give it back to the poor.
I am not a catholic, and an agnostic my self, but The catholic church give a lot for the poors, via a lot of institutions, even if those instutitions are not directly ruled by the Vatican.

And religion has more to do than giving to the poors, it deal with mysticism, something that you totally lack (like me BTW).
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-04-02, 07:20

I'll say this: every since yesterday morning, his situation has "been dire". I didn't think he'd last through the afternoon. He did. I went to dinner and shopping last night, got home and expected the worst. Still alive. Went to bed, woke up and hit my cnn.com bookmark, thinking "the poor man probably didn't survive the night...". Well, he did.

Either he's tough as can be, OR the media is really playing up "just any time now..." angle.



Roe Conn (Chicago radio host) commented yesterday that this is the first Pope to die in the age of 24/7 cable news, so to expect a bit of a breathless, non-stop zoo and circus atmosphere, even in moments and situations when the breathless overstatement, dramatics and bustle aren't really justified or warranted.

I have to say I agree.

These puddingheads have to talk about something, 24/7. And if it means getting some old fart doctor or theologian on the air to bore everyone to tears, or for Larry King to have James Caviezel on and ask him stupid questions and interrupt every one of his answers with ANOTHER stupid question (which he did...it's Larry, after all), then that's what they do.

The Pope himself may be steeped in quiet, powerful dignity. Not sure I can say the same about the news media through all this.
 
scratt
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2005-04-02, 07:23

Good points.. But they could do a lot more.
If both the Protestant and Catholic churches were liquidated and the money given to the poor of the World, the World would be a better place.

Also you don't need religion for mysticism. In a lot of ways the institution of the Church has been McDonalds for mysticism.... Real and individualised mysticism has been rooted out and banished by the Church whilst it preaches not practising idolitary and "heathen" worship! At the same time everyone prays to Christ on a cross, infront of great gold and silver idols and drinks the blood of Christ, whilst also eating his flesh...

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
 
scratt
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2005-04-02, 07:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
or for Larry King to have James Caviezel on and ask him stupid questions and interrupt every one of his answers with ANOTHER stupid question (which he did...it's Larry, after all), then that's what they do.
Doesn't he get more and more annoying!!

He doesn't listen. He is rude. He is stupid and opinionated. (Perhaps I am laying myself open with that critisism!) Christ I want to smack his face in sometimes and I am mostly a pacifist.. But I get mental images of him being tortured and gain great solice from it somehow!

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
 
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-04-02, 07:38

Larry King is just one of those "mysteries of the universe" types. Somehow he has this rep as "the interviewer's interviewer!"...and he's the worst at it that I've ever seen.



My two-year-old niece is a better listener - and asks smarter questions - than King.



I don't get it.

Anyway, back to the Pope...
 
HOM
The Elder™
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Rostra
 
2005-04-02, 10:02

According to FoxNews the Pope is dead!

 
_Ω_
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-04-02, 10:08

Where I live the pope is a non-entity who has long since had any relevance on the way we lead our lives - nothing that has come out of his mouth recently has been of any great importance.

Angels bleed from the tainted touch of my caress
 
Powerdoc
Cat's Dreamlands
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-04-02, 11:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
Where I live the pope is a non-entity who has long since had any relevance on the way we lead our lives - nothing that has come out of his mouth recently has been of any great importance.
Of course if you are not a catholic or you are not living in poland, the pope is a non entity.
There is one billion catholic all over the world, and millions of people living in poland. He is very popular here, and according to Walesa, the President of Poland, and many citizens he play a very important role, in the end of communism here.
And BTW you are right to mention that nothing coming from his mouth recently has been of any great importance : normal when you can't speak with your throat open.
 
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2005-04-02, 12:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt
Good points.. But they could do a lot more.
If both the Protestant and Catholic churches were liquidated and the money given to the poor of the World, the World would be a better place.
Yeah. And then they wouldn't be able to give any more because they'd be dissolved. I realize that there is a history of corruption and greed in the Catholic church, and they should probably be cracking down on it rather than trying to hide it... hell, they should be making a big fire and brimstone show of cracking down on corruption and excommunicating the collection-stealing, alter boy humping priests. Instead of trying to fucking hide it. That would probably reduce the number of incidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt
Also you don't need religion for mysticism. In a lot of ways the institution of the Church has been McDonalds for mysticism.... Real and individualised mysticism has been rooted out and banished by the Church whilst it preaches not practising idolitary and "heathen" worship! At the same time everyone prays to Christ on a cross, infront of great gold and silver idols and drinks the blood of Christ, whilst also eating his flesh...
I agree with you here, somewhat. I am fundamentally opposed to organized religion because it tries to tell you what to believe, rather than presenting you with the facts and letting you make your own decision. There is no room for free thought. Searching for evidence for your beliefs is discouraged. When you get in an argument over the existence of God with a devout Christian, the best they can really come up with is that the Bible proves God's existence and that true proof contradicts faith, as if in order to be a "good" religious person you must accept things without question. That doesn't sit well with me. Imagine if "church" didn't consist of listening to a man in robes lecturing you on what to think, but instead had all the people discussing their own personal relationship with God and what their personal take on all of it was. The priest could serve as a moderator but everyone would be on equal footing and allowed to openly discuss religion instead of being spoon-fed.
 
scratt
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-04-02, 12:29

*pokes head out of bomb shelter* *scratches at itchy bit of flame retardant suit*

Thinks to self "Doesn't look too scary out here... But hey I'll just pop back in, lock the door and have another spliff before I actually venture out.."


'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
 
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2005-04-02, 15:02

He's gone to meet his God.
 
Powerdoc
Cat's Dreamlands
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-04-02, 15:11

Yes he passed away 30 minutes ago.
 
FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2005-04-02, 15:15

wow, no disrespect to His Holiness intended, but there goes my Final Four coverage....
 
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2005-04-02, 15:21

Let's close the thread Admins
 
FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2005-04-02, 15:52

As you wish, Franz.

Reflections on the Pope's passing can go elsewhere.
 
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