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The Mandalorian *SPOILERS*


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The Mandalorian *SPOILERS*
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-04, 05:58

Oh. My. Gosh.

***THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW...DO NOT PROCEED UNLESS/UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE NEW EPISODE!!!***

YOU HAVE BEEN PROPERLY, SUFFICIENTLY WARNED/ALERTED.

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It was not my plan to say much, at 4:35am, but that was quite a ride! I simply must share some thoughts, while they're fresh (and I'm still wide awake).

- To my shock/surprise, the destination planet, as with last week’s episode, was reached, right at the beginning. As was the specific location Ahsoka spoke about. Nice to see those immediate payoffs sometimes. I was sure he'd get sidetracked into some unrelated adventure along the way! Nope...we got right to it.

- At 33 minutes, it was a bit shorter than others. DO NOT let that fool you, or mean anything. It’s as action/info/plot-packed as any other. Maybe even more, in a few ways?

- Directed by Robert Rodriguez, which makes total sense when you consider the level of cool, hard-case action, gunplay/explosions and bad guy body count throughout.

- Redeemed!! If a certain character was depicted as this level of bad-ass in 1980 and 1983, his popularity would be a) fully earned/justified/understandable, and b) 10x that what it already is. The amount of stormtrooper ass he beat without his armor was amazing. And once he had it back on, it was even more so.

People are gonna talk about this, trust me. The resurgence in this character’s popularity just got kickstarted. We truly see what all the fuss was about, and why Vader felt the need to directly address him on that Star Destroyer bridge 40 years ago.

Favreau, in less than 30 minutes, appears to have redeemed/reset this character’s arc and fate. I just don’t see this version accidentally “going out like a punk” anytime soon. I see him making a bunch of others go out that way, however. He was a killing machine, pre- and post-armor. There's something satisfying about seeing stormtrooper armor shatter/fly apart. We never really got this in any of the movies.

And no, he has not retired to a “monk-like”, peaceful existence (as a way to atone for a life of violence or whatever) as I wondered about upthread. He’s been “on the job” all along. And, yes...he is mentioned by name, as is his father, leaving zero doubt/wiggle room. It’s him, for real. And I like how the episode went out of its way, no fewer than three occasions by my count (verbally, visually, prequel backstory/callback, etc.), to assure viewers "no, we're not being coy or cute, or setting up a 'gotcha!' or twist...this is really him, so enjoy!"

PS - He still has his ship, and it looks/sounds exactly as we remember! The saucer-eyes/smile that hit me when I saw his ship soaring across the sky was huge. If anything, as with most others, I was on the lookout/waiting for Imperial craft to show up, so imagine my delight at seeing a flying “elephant head” fly by, and land.

- I’m glad he’s not an enemy of Mando. In fact, for now, he’s squarely an ally and in Mando's debt. The man simply wanted his armor back. Can’t blame him. These two will be unstoppable, along with the help they’ll have.

- Someone else has “returned from the dead”, and she will be a strong ally as well. And we now realize we indeed saw the above character way back in season 1's "The Gunslinger" episode, although we didn’t know it was him at the time.

- Except for the opening and closing minutes, the entire episode - in a departure from most every other one this season - took place in a single location, a barren, outdoor site (real + digital?), with no buildings/structures or elaborate sets to speak of. Which, to me, gave it a bit of a "fan film" vibe in places. And I don't mean that as a slam/dig in any way, it just looked like it was made by a small, guerrilla crew with no permits on someone's grandparent's property out in the middle of nowhere. You know...a fan film. But the action sequences and payoffs totally made up for any shortcoming on the visual/set design front. I did like the Indiana Jones nod with the boulder, and the scrubby, rocky setting did give it an Old West/cowboy movie shootout feel.

- Grogu is a little hard-ass too, Force-choking and all. Let’s just say that stormtroopers, as a whole, didn’t fare well in this episode. They had their hands full throughout. Mandalorians, bounty hunters, sharpshooters, gaffi sticks, boulders, pissed-off babies exploring their powers. You almost kinda started feeling sorry for them, about halfway in. "Whatever this job pays, it ain't enough!"

- RIP Razor Crest. That was unexpected, and a little sad. But the two items that survived/were salvaged from it are the only two needed...his little friend's favorite toy, and an Beskar ass-beating stick (which surely gets put to some good use 7-14 days from now).

- Another character from last season is set to return, from "The Prisoner" episode. So we are getting a “men (and women) on a mission” setup, and the five people (so far) it’s looking to be is...glorious. I wouldn't want to go up against any one of them, never mind all five. There’s certainly room for another few as well, of the female persuasion, both Mandalorian and Jedi? If those two wind up throwing in on this mission, holy smokes...what a team that will be!!

- Well hello, Cara...how you doin’? And I love how her “I’ve gone straight now; there are rules” stance immediately fell away when she learned the stakes and who she’d be helping. You see her face change when Mando tells her why he needs help/info. She already hated the Empire. She really does now.

- Grogu’s “message” from the Seeing Stone clearly made its way out into the galaxy. I fully expect a Jedi, somewhere, has sensed it and will appear in some form before the credits roll on episode 8. That shot/sequence, BTW, was beautiful. You knew everything you needed to know about what was taking place. He “reached out”, loud and clear. And I’m sure it was felt/sensed somewhere, by someone, or they wouldn’t have taken the time/effort to show it as they did. I do believe there were plenty of bars and that call went through.

- The opening five or so minutes were adorable, the bond between Mando and Grogu. Have we ever heard a Mandalorian laugh? We have now.

- Mando referring to Ahsoka as “the nice lady” made me smile.

- Why does the Empire have baby-sized handcuffs/shackles?!

- We see Moff Gideon briefly ignite his saber, the one Bo Katan is after. Such a weird look after decades of seeing a white glow surrounded by color. The black “blade” with white glow/edge is so different. And he’s gonna screw around and pull it on the wrong person, guaranteed: Mando, Bo Katan, Ahsoka...?

- Beskar is strong stuff! I can see why someone in that line of work would want to wear it as protective gear. Blaster fire has no effect/impact. He just stands there, taking shots to the body with no harm. Cool stuff. To have a spear made of it means somebody’s gonna get messed up.

- This episode was no filler at all, and, as I speculated above, it definitely tees up the final two installments of the season in a delicious way. Episodes 7 and 8 should be quite the showdown, even if the “team” is just the five it’s currently looking to be. Should another 1-2 throw in, there’s gonna be a lot of dead stormtroopers and wrecked Imperial hardware. You don’t take a man’s cute little baby without some consequences and repercussions.

- Dark troopers, by name. They didn’t do much, but they sure look scary/menacing. I’m sure we’ll see them fully in action in these upcoming final two episodes. But I already hate them for snatching, and flying away with, our cute little Force frog baby.

- Two weeks in a row of supreme bad-ass character introductions. Filoni and Favreau know exactly what they're doing. I do believe Ahsoka and Mr. Dented Helmet could take on half the Empire themselves. Here’s hoping maybe we get a small taste of that soon?


***PREDICTION RE: THE FINAL TWO EPISODES***

Spoiler (click to toggle):
In light of Mando losing the Razor Crest - it's gone, there's no "maybe it's just a scratch and can be buffed out..." - and what I spoke about over a month ago, upthread (which I'm even more convinced of now):

In the same way he made this character's life/reputation suddenly "make sense" and appear in full force on screen, I also think Favreau will give the character an honorable, warrior's death. The character showed in this episode that he's no villain, has integrity when it comes to honoring codes, etc. As I said well over a month ago, after this season's premiere episode, I do believe this character will go out in a final, heroic and supremely bad-ass act. After this episode and seeing how he decimates/holds his own against multiple stormtroopers, I believe this even more. He'll wind up being the reason our hero and Grogu live, I'm betting.

In an act of self-sacrifice tied to all these things guys like him and Mando would understand and adhere to, he'll do what it takes to make sure Mando, and Grogu, survive and are safe. He just strikes me as that type.

Which, cut to the chase, means Mando ends up with a suitable ship to replace the one he lost. Whether it's actively "willed"/granted to him in a dying moment, or there's nobody else around left to vie for it, I think Mando will have a new, cool ride for the third season.

Goodbye, Razor Crest...hello Slave I.

And, honestly...who else but such a character should be at the controls of that ship? To quote George..."it's like poetry, it rhymes". If it can't be papa clone, or his unaltered son, then it may as well be our guy.


We'll see.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-04 at 20:21.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-04, 12:33

Not looking! Nothing to see here.

BLAH BLAH BLAH Lah-T-Dah-dah!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-04, 12:56

Yeah, don’t. Not until you’ve seen it. I cover things above. And when I get back home, I’m gonna add a thing or two that just dawned on me about an hour ago.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-04, 14:05

The kid and I will catch it tomorrow night. Still, I always check each post for Spam-bots. I hate even seeing the **spoilers* alert, because I know I need to shut my eyes!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-04, 18:47

BTW, I just learned that Ming-Na Wen (Fennec Shand) is 57 years old.

I had her at 38-40, tops. Damn.

She’s living right.

Kinda cheeky...I saw online a couple b of weeks ago where she was urging fans to start a petition to bring her character back. This episode was already in the can, long ago, so she was just trying to throw people off and make it sound like she was no longer involved with the show. Brat!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-04, 20:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
- Except for the opening and closing minutes, the entire episode - in a departure from most every other one this season - took place in a single location, a barren, outdoor site (real + digital?), with no buildings/structures or elaborate sets to speak of. Which, to me, gave it a bit of a "fan film" vibe in places. And I don't mean that as a slam/dig in any way, it just looked like it was made by a small, guerrilla crew with no permits on someone's grandparent's property out in the middle of nowhere. You know...a fan film. But the action sequences and payoffs totally made up for any shortcoming on the visual/set design front. I did like the Indiana Jones nod with the boulder, and the scrubby, rocky setting did give it an Old West/cowboy movie shootout feel.
I was curious about this filming location (curious about how much of it was real/existed, or if was a big digital/CGI creation), so I started doing some Googling and digging. It's Rocky Peak Park in Los Angeles (well, outside of L.A.). I'm sure augmented with CGI as needed (those structures where Grogu sat and reached out with the Force).

One article I read about it caught my eye...

Quote:
Rocky Peak has been prominently featured in many classic Hollywood films, being next to three major Movie ranches; the Iverson, Spahn, and Corriganville Ranches; and its evocative 'Old-West Frontier' landscape scenery.
So I knew what I knew, before I really knew I knew it.

It just had that look, the minute I saw it (and as the action unfolded and we spent more time in that terrain). As I was watching this episode earlier this morning I kept having 3:10 to Yuma and other "wait, is that...?" flashbacks.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-06, 03:23

Okay. As with the last episode, I am making this post without having read any post prior, so that my thoughts are my own and not influenced by you jerkwads.

1) The first scene—where Mando is toying with Baby Yoda—is just darling! What a ham he is becoming. I LOVE this guy!

2) The next scene, where Mando is circling the seeing temple thing is just brilliantly well done. The whole fly-by from the cockpit view is incredible, and really made me feel like I was right there, especially when it was shown from Baby Yoda's perspective. Awesome to the Double-D BAM!

3) Holy crap, Slave 1!

4) Double Holy Crap, Boba Fett!

5) Triple Holy Crap, Boba Fett is kicking ass and taking names!

Side note: Where were these writers/directors for episodes 7-9? Seriously, these guys **GET** Star Wars. None of that "Luke is a worn out, little-old-man-whiny-like-Anakin-bitch of a lost Jedi" crap. Ahsoka rocked, and Boba rocked! THANK YOU!!!!

6) Oh, wow, Boba Fett! A little armor-splaining and some backstory and a little "I miss my daddy, who gave me this frickin' armor thankyouverymuch!" and there's a scarred head and it's the same dude and it fits perfectly and he's got attitudebutloyaltyandhiswordishislife and hot DAMN I love this show!

7) Baby Yoda is a pain in the ass, all hiding behind that crazy Force shield thingy.

8) Who the hell saw this episode coming? This was supposed to be filler, and thanks a lot Paul for leading me down this road!

9) They got Baby Yoda and I'm mad about it, even though we knew it was coming … eventually!

10) Mando's ship is dust, and I don't know what makes me more sad, that or The Kid-napping! But, Slave 1, so who cares.

11) Baby Yoda force-kicking-the-crap-outta-storm-troopers is

12) I don't like Gustavo Fring!



This was the best episode yet. Super well done on every front. Like I said, these guys **GET** Star Wars, and this show is hitting on all cylinders, consistently. From the opening scenes to the storm troopers *cough* storming the hill, to the dark troopers, Slave 1's engine sounds and the way it maneuvered, Boba Fett's snappy, vengeful-get-me-my-armor attitude, the interactions and humor and scenery and camera angles. Just, all of it! Boba's bad-assery and his weapons and the armor and the walk and … !

There is a sloppy neck-beard mess to be cleaned up in every basement and attic in the country right now. While we need some "how did Boba get out of there" answers, his intro was brilliant, well conceived, and just down-right fun! Very engaging, edge-of-the-seat-loved-it-from-start-to-finish amazeballs!

And, finally this: What Jedi did Baby Yoda contact? Who is around in this timeline? Luke? Ahsoka? Other than the younglings we know Luke was training, the only other "known" Jedi is Leia. Judging from the CG wizardry they pulled off in The Last Skywalker, Luke and Leia are not out of the question, and I'm all for it. I really need to see those two doing something *not* ruined by that last mess. Perhaps CGI Skywalkers are on the near horizon? Something tells me 2/8 is going to answer that question. The season-ending, bomb-dropping, edge-of-the-seat finalé might just reveal that answer.

And I cannot wait. Two thumbs way up!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-12-06 at 03:36.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-06, 09:22

So did you like it?

One on the things I enjoy is watching YouTube reaction videos after a new episode hits. So many of them said this was their favorite episode, and how surprised they were at the 1-2 punch of Ahsoka’s live-action debut followed by, a week later, the return of Boba Fett. And I agree. Two of the property’s most popular characters just appeared on this same show...and none of it felt idiotic, forced, etc. It had all been set up/laid out in such a way that you just go with it.

Mind you, this was one of the shorter (33 minutes?) installments, mostly set in a single location and with no pre-release buzz/hype as we had with last week’s episode.

Think about that. The Little Show That Could, indeed! A good 10-15 minutes shorter than most installments, no elaborate sets or multiple locations/traveling. Nothing “sprawling” or “epic”; it was just a cowboy shootout on a scrubby, rocky hill with characters we like. Sometimes that’s all it takes, or is needed.

Yes, it had a fan-film vibe about it at times, but guess what? Who is it that's making fan films?

Exactly...people who love Star Wars, who want to play in that sandbox and make it look, sound and feel like the movies they enjoy. That's the very definition of the term, and that's what we're getting with this show. People can frame it however they want - to the good or the bad - but it's what it is, and, frankly, after some underwhelming, less-than large-scale efforts, it's exactly what the property - and its devoted fans - need. Because we certainly don't need another rushed, thrown-together and disjointed trilogy headed up by people who don't seem to really grasp or appreciate the property. That's not going to help, or fix, anything. This show is doing all the heavy lifting and post-sequel repair work right now, and, in the bang-for-the-buck department ($15M an episode -$120M for an eight-episode season - compared to the $200M+ spent on each of the trilogy releases, with both totaling roughly six hours, give or take, of viewable, on-screen content), I'd say they're succeeding more than a lot of people - myself included - would've ever imagined.

It just goes to show, it isn't extravagant budgets or A-list "star power" that makes for entertaining, satisfying fare. Never has been, but those two carts often seem to be placed before the horse on so many Hollywood/showbiz projects. And shows like this, and others, will pop up occasionally to demonstrate the opposite. That it's good writing, characters you want to throw in with/follow and story-telling that grabs people, Star Wars or otherwise.

As for Favreau/Filoni “getting it”, absolutely. It’s clear to me that J.J. Abrams, and especially Rian Johnson, were hell-bent on going the “let’s not do the expected, let’s ‘challenge’ the fans/viewers, let’s undo or ignore the past and all that was accomplished by these characters...” route. And it didn’t sit well with most.

Joyless, divisive and point-missing noise isn’t what people want from this property.

By contrast, everyone on this show acts the way you’d expect/hope, especially these recent two big introductions.

So yes, whatever one may think about this show, it does clearly demonstrate, in sharp contrast to the sequel trilogy, the value of having the right folks in charge and calling the creative shots. And whose egos aren’t compelling them to try and deviate from established lore and tropes, which nobody is asking for. These two guys - and the team they’ve assembled - like Star Wars, and aren’t looking to change/“fix” it.

Huge difference.

Oddly, I’ve seen behind-the-scenes docs and round table discussions amongst the creative team on this show, and there’s Kathleen Kennedy, right in the middle of it all. So then I get to thinking “okay, so what’s different?”, and I can’t help but wonder/think “are J.J. and Rian just ball-less suck-ups, with no vision of their own and dutifully performed everything she mandated without question? Or were they all three just on the exact wavelength? Have Favreau and Filoni somehow made it known to her ‘hands off...you had your shot, with three big theatrical outings. We’re doing this the way we envision, and how we think things should play out and be presented”?

Because somebody, somewhere seems to have told Kennedy to back off and leave the showrunners alone, because her (heavy-handed) fingerprints don’t appear to be all over this show.

I find that interesting, and I can’t help but wonder what happened behind the scenes...how that chat went, and who initiated it? Bob Iger? Favreau and Filoni themselves? Did George Lucas pick up the phone?

“Hey, Kathy...you got a minute? Have a seat...”.



PS - Lest anyone think this show is somehow coming up short in a certain department compared to the sequel trilogy...I’ve seen nothing but strong, smart, brave, independent, capable, interesting, assertive, savvy, in control, thoughtful and well-written female characters, for 14 episodes now.

So if it’s between Rey Skywalker, Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo or Cara Dune, Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano, I sure as hell know which group I’d prefer my daughter look up to/admire (and dress like for Halloween). There's a way to go about things, and a way not to. And this show appears to have grasped the former (and is doing a much better job on that front than three movies ever seemed to).

People know/recognize/appreciate strong female characters when they see them, and don't need to be lectured to/beaten over the head about it.

Show, don't tell. That's filmmaking 101.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-06 at 11:03.
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-12-06, 10:30

The show is brilliant all over, up and down and upside down.

While I agree wholeheartedly on how the show seems to be super inclusive, I would caution you that our impression of the show's progressive bonafides does not count, and that's okay. Our perspective on the experience is well known. I'm in listening mode these days.


...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-06, 11:15

I'm not.

I get to say/talk about whatever I want. And people are free to disagree, ignore, clutch their pearls, etc. That's how it works.

And IDGAF about a show’s “progressive bonafides” at any level. I don’t watch stuff based on that sort of thing. All I expect from entertainment is to be...entertained.

EDIT: That’s all that needs saying...

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-07 at 03:36.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-06, 23:02

Well, the female characters in this show are all just bad-ass! Even the appears-once-in-a-while lady-pilot lady on Gustavo Fring's Star Cruiser has more gusto than Rose Tico, and so far has only had about three lines. She's far more "real" and "believable" because she's not trying to check any boxes, or exist without any place in the plot.

She's nobody, and she plays nobody quite well!

Plus, she's hot, and I love her.

And that's a big part of what has made The Mandalorian so Star Warsy good! Everyone has a role to play, and they play their roles without getting in the way or making you cross your eyes and try to figure out why the hell they're around.

In 1977, I remembered every major character from A New Hope after just one viewing. After three 2-hour+ movies the only sequel characters whose names I can shout with just a peek are Rey and all the characters from the original New Hope. Absolutely no one else stood out enough that I can just toss their names down right here thinking about it. Seriously! There was a black storm trooper, a pilot, some random women whose roles included Checkbox A, Checkbox B, Checkbox C, etc., and I still have no clue what they were supposed to be doing. But Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, the bots, the badies, I know all of them because they were written in such a way that their names stuck!

In The Mandalorian, Baby Yoda has become an internet sensation because he is A) Cute; B) Serves a purpose; and C) Says all the right things in all the right places.

That's story-telling.

And I'm already salivating for 2/7. Bring that shizzle on!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-07, 03:50

This show has the heavy task of making fans forget about - or be okay with - three underwhelming, less-than movies that could’ve, and should’ve, been so much more.

By stepping back, re-focusing and jettisoning some of the elements that made those movies such a joyless, focus-grouped slog to sit through, it’s doing a nice job of simply being something fun to watch. And in 2020, that’s a notable accomplishment all by itself.

If there is any messaging or statement-making taking place, it’s being done subtly and doesn’t appear to be a priority over other aspects. All the talk that accompanied/swirled around those movies doesn’t seem to be present with this show. And that’s refreshing, because I truly believe most viewers don’t give a shit. They’re not tuning into a SW show to feel validated, for marching orders or as a cultural rallying point about this or that heavy issue. They have other outlets/sources for that and to expect such things from light entertainment fare is a bit foolish, and expecting way too much, IMO.

So, yes...I think lessons were learned and approaches tweaked a bit at the creative/production level because something accounts for the difference in tone/feel between this show and those sequel entries.

I wouldn’t be tuning in every week if this show wasn’t, above all else, entertaining and fun to watch. I enjoy those ~45 minutes each week. That’s all I expect from such a thing.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-07 at 11:50.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-07, 14:16

If I were Disney, I'd delete the entire prequel trilogy from the library, stop showing it, kill it off, wait a few years, and then let these guys remake it.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-07, 15:29

I see where there's a push by some to do just that, or, at the very least, "de-canonize" the sequels. Maybe Chewie ate some bad space tacos and he had an awful, food poisoning-induced crazy dream, like Tony Soprano did in that one episode?

Honestly, I have zero problem with that.

But I know it would never happen because that's a bit too on-the-nose and a slap to everyone involved (and not just the hack puds who loused it all up, who actually deserve said slap). But I think it would be an insult to all the talented crew and artists who worked hard on it. It's not their fault nobody could write a coherent, engaging story (or that Disney inexplicably gave Rian Johnson $200M+ to make his little "expectation-subverting", hunk-of-shit student film). Plus, it's a bit disrespectful to Carrie Fisher who agreed to come back to play in that sandbox once again, only to die right in the middle of it all. They wouldn't want to undermine her involvement and demean her efforts.

So, unfortunately, we're well past that. Those movies are canon, and about all you can do now is maybe try to come up with something (a Disney+ series?) that somehow tries to make sense of all the pointless, unhinged nonsense we saw in the sequels? Because goodness knows if I've got about two-dozen questions/issues, your average viewer or casual fan probably has hundreds. Maybe 8-10 episodes of a well-written show could somehow help things make a bit more sense?

I kinda wondered if that's what they were getting at on The Mandalorian a few weeks ago, implying that Grogu's Force-rich, high M-count blood played some role in the creation of Snoke (or the return of Palpatine), but who knows. Seeing that body in the tank, that was the first thing my mind went to. But I could be way off.

PS - I'm so glad he has a name, because a) I hated writing "Baby Yoda", b) The Child always sounded a bit pretentious and c) Force Frog Baby is a bit unwieldy. I love Grogu...five letters, two syllables and appropriately cute. Grogu! I love that he responds to it anytime Mando says it. It's like my kitty, any time I say "Jasper".

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-07 at 16:02.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-07, 15:37

I've seen 7 about three times, but 8 and 9 only once each. With 8, that was one time too many. With 9, I'm waiting until I get the urge, which hasn't happened a full year on.

Fortunately, The Mandalorian has totally erased any interest in the sequel trilogy that may have been harboring in my SciFi rerun center. But, with only 2 episodes left, I'll have to dive further into Rebels as I patiently await the Obi Wan series, and whatever else falls out of Disney's efforts at righting a ship that was clearly sinking. I'm hoping for an Ahsoka Tano series, and would even be game for some other totally new offshoot stuff involving characters we don't yet know.

Well, I can do without The Adventures of C-3PO and the Acquirement of the Red Arm. That idea can be filed away with Holy Cow I Can't Believe Scates Called Han Solo's Appearance In TLJ!

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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-07, 16:23

I truly believe the future of Star Wars is in episodic TV. It certainly didn't hurt those animated shows. Same deal here, only it's live action.

As I talked about upthread, they're getting a lot of bang-for-the-buck with this show (and I assume others would be in that ballpark). $15M or so an episode, $120M an eight-episode seasons (vs. the $200-300M needed to put out a single big-screen movie.

You can tell a lot of story in a six-hour, eight-episode season for well under $200M. More time to tell a story, even if they're broken up into weekly ~45 minute chunks. People would rather throw in with something for eight weeks, vs. waiting 2-3 years every two hours. And then knowing a new season is only 10 months away.

And now that this show has proven that fans will follow and throw in on it, you know they'll do more. That immersive LED soundstage tech is already in place/up and running, and looks great, so they'll use it for Kenobi and everything else, meaning they're going to get all kinds of use out of it. They'll have it paid off in no time!

As long as this virus hangs on and movie theaters aren't up and running, SW will thrive on the small screen. This one show has already proven it can, and will likely serve as the template for others to come. Keep them fun, don't get stupid, be smart/clever with the nostalgia and callbacks, open up and explore things we've not seen before (and open up and explore things only hinted at in the movies), fill in the blanks, bring characters who previously only existed in animated/novel/comic book/video game form to real life, etc.

To me it's a wide-open canvas! It should be a dream gig for any fan who also happens to be a writer and/or director.

Put the right people in charge, sign on talented directors and others and Star Wars becomes a thing again, at levels not seen in decades. People are stuck at home, worried sick about damn near everything, and are hungry for the warm blanket of stuff that has brought them joy and comfort over the years, even going back to their childhood. The timing is working in their favor, IMO. It's just a shame another series isn't teeing up to debut after the holidays. But maybe next year (Kenobi or something)?

But it is not rocket science. It's damn near impossible to screw up Star Wars if you have a genuine love for it, a functioning brain and a bit of talent/vision.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-07 at 16:49.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-07, 21:42

Some of you may enjoy this...a brief interview with Robert Rodriguez, who directed this latest episode.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 09:24

So I had the same reactions as you all did going through the show with my kids late Friday night. The one thing that I didn't see either of you mention is how Grogu force choking the troopers seemed more of a dark side move. I don't recall any of the Jedi doing that along the way. Not that they couldn't, but that always struck me as a Sith specific move.

Oh, I also have to say I completely loved the episode. As we were watching it I yelled out "That's Boba's ship!" My kids have watched the full Skywalker series but didn't recognize his ship.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-08, 10:16

Re: Force-choking being a dark side thing, remember in the beginning of ROTJ robed Luke briefly choking those Gamorrean(?) guards upon entering Jabba’s palace. But I considered that more of a defensive, "back off or else" move vs. outright malice (he didn't kill them, and easily could have).

I don’t think the move itself is the issue, but how it’s used? Luke was trying to rescue his friends from a known villain/gangster (who, by the way, declined multiple attempts to bargain/negotiate; Luke only got down to business after all attempts at diplomacy failed, and his life, and those of his friends, was in immediate danger...he gave Jabba every chance to cut a deal). Vader did it to those, on his team, who simply pissed him off or back-talked him. I consider one more dark/evil than the other. Luke wasn't going around choking Wedge or other fellow Rebels if he was upset at something.

As for Grogu, he’s young and scared and still figuring things out. He's in that cell, surrounded by people he doesn't know (but he knows they're not his friends, so he might've thought he was "fighting" in the only way he knew how). But I do agree that, without guidance, he might be walking down the easy path. Ahsoka said she sensed fear in him, and all the things that opens up/leads to. With all he’s been through, and the lack of impulse control the show has repeatedly established for the character (shifter knobs, cookies, frogs, etc.), someone does indeed need to step in soon to make sure he doesn’t become the galaxy’s first 12” tall Sith.

Re: Boba’s ship, what I found interesting, some of the YouTube reaction videos I’ve watched, just how many people didn’t seem to recognize it. I fully understand how younger, casual and/or newcomer fans might not (I know I couldn’t tell various Star Trek or Battlestar: Galactica ships apart, not being a fan/viewer of either). But when you’re watching some of these channels and it’s just Neckbeard Central, with all the SW toys and merch on the wall behind them, the SW T-shirts, they’re holding little Grogu dolls, etc. you kinda can’t help but think “poser”. Because anyone flying their fan colors to that degree - and I saw 5-6 do this, SW shit all over the place - and failing to recognize one of the more distinctive ships in the saga...something’s a bit off/weird.

Come on, guys...really? You've got $13,000 worth of Star Wars crap on the wall behind you, and you sit there and go "uh oh...that must be Gideon!" or "ooh, who the hell is this?!" Something doesn't compute.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-08 at 10:49.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-08, 10:32

Yeah, that makes sense. I had forgotten about the scene in front of the palace. Intent clearly is the difference... but given the warning Ahsoka gave it just really made me question Grogu's path. Clearly he communicated with a Jedi on that temple so he is bound to get some proper guidance.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 13:28

Because this show always zigs when I zag, and they've surprised/delighted everyone for two weeks in a row with "straight to the action" and "major live-action reveals/returns of popular characters", I'm betting this week's episode is a snag/side-mission one.

We're left to think the final two installments will be one long Grogu rescue mission. That's too easy.

I'm betting, while going to spring Bill Burr from the can, Mando gets roped into helping some put-upon villagers defeat a warlord and nothing in this Friday's episode ties to Grogu, Boba Fett, Moff Gideon, etc. He springs Burr in the final minutes and then that sets up/leads to next Friday's episode 8 season finale.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit! We've just had it too good these past several weeks to maintain that pace.


Mind you, I've never wanted to be more wrong about something in my life. I hope we get two 50-minutes-each "rescue Grogu" episodes for 7 and 8 (chapters 15 and 16)...and while I know the show will likely have to end on some sort of "ohmigosh"/cliffhanger type of thing (Thrawn reveal, a Jedi arriving, etc.), I hope the rescue has a solid, definitive start, middle and ending...and we're not left to go 10+ months to find out what happens on that front. I won't mind a cool/upbeat cliffhanger or reveal (Gideon climbing out of a wrecked TIE fighter with the dark saber fits under that category), but I DO NOT want some played-out "did Grogu, Cara and Boba all just die in that explosion?!" nonsense. I hate those kinds of season-enders...The Walking Dead and so many other shows have absolutely beaten that trope to death! They're not exciting, they're annoying. And manipulative.

I want a Grogu resolution, one way or the other, and for any deaths/losses (good guys or villains) to be made known before the credits role. Then if they want to show a robed figure from the back saying "Grogu has chosen his path, and I'm here for him" with Mark Hamill's voice, go for it!

But none of that other nonsense, please.

PS - $10 says Gideon loses an eye. That's just too much of a tease. Whether it's via Grogu manipulating the dark saber, as Gideon already alluded to, or via Mando's spear in a darksaber/Beskar duel (or a punch from a pissed-off Boba Fett ), one of his eyes isn't long for this world, I'm betting. They're kinda serving that one up on a silver platter, IMO.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-09 at 13:50.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-09, 15:25

I'm really enjoying the fact that the Skywalkers and their saga aren't really at play in this series. Sure there are characters from it, but it isn't really about the Skywalkers. While it would be neat to pull Hamill into it, I'd almost rather not at all.

Maybe it will be McGregor instead? He is about to do a show so it might cross over somehow.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 16:26

The only Hamill involvement I'd be okay with is about like I cited above...seen only from the back, but you hear his voice and you know exactly who it is. Boom, gone. A nice bone to throw to folks.

I do not want him as any sort of regularly appearing character (first, it makes no sense; secondly, it's too much of a burden, technologically/filming-wise), or for anything longer than a voice cameo over about 8-10 seconds. Because, yeah...he's had six movies (and sucked in three of them), so his thing is played out, his story has been told. But if he wants to show up and gather little Grogu and all we hear is his voice, some words of insight/wisdom and a brief snippet of that "staring at the twin suns" theme play in the background, sure...I'd be okay with that.

Or, as I mentioned upthread, if they want to do a brief hologram (or obscured in shadow by a hooded robe) type of thing with CGI/deep fake tech to de-age him for about 10-12 seconds of screen time, fine. But he doesn't need to appear in the flesh, fully lit and close up, because there's no way that will look believable. It never does (Leia at the end of Rogue One was so odd; that scene would've worked just as well, if not better, had we never seen her face...we saw that white gown/hood from the back and we all knew who it was; a beautiful moment was undermined by a face that didn't look like Carrie Fisher). And hopefully they've learned also that recasting such an iconic character doesn't fly either (Solo, anyone?). All this talk about Sebastian Stan from The Avengers is just...weird. I don't see the resemblance at all (what pics I have seen have been proven to be tweaked/doctored and shitty, drug-induced Photoshop abuse). So people have absolutely lost their minds on that front.

Just do one of the two above, for no more than 15-20 seconds, and there's your "ohmigosh it's Luke!!!" treat for the fans. There's no risk of "bad CGI" memes and nobody has to get upset over someone playing Luke other than Mark Hamill. And then we never hear from him again (and we all eventually enter therapy because it dawns on us what likely happened to Grogu a few years later, due to Han and Leia's emo son).

But this show doesn't need to wade into those waters any more than it already does, via just fun, nice verbal or visual callbacks/references. It needs to be about a Mandalorian bounty hunter, and his stories/adventures, first and foremost. That's how it was sold, that's what people expect. The last thing I want at this point, after 2015-2019, is more Skywalker bullcrap.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-12-09 at 16:57.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-09, 17:08

Well said, Paul, and I'm on board 100%.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-09, 17:57

Yeah, I could go for that too. I guess I'm just ready to move away from the Skywakers overall. Blame it on the last three movies if you want...

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 18:51

I do.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-09, 18:56

Fair enough.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-09, 19:44

Well, it is wrapped up. Whether it was satisfying or not is up for eternal debate, but nine movies is plenty of time to spend on any one family.

I've long hoped to see other stories, characters, etc. explored and followed. We're getting that now, but there are still familiar, fun and comforting ties to the things we love and remember. They're threading that needle nicely, and appealing to a wide range of fans...dug-in old farts like me who live and die by the OT, those who loved the prequels, fans of the animated shows, etc.

Build a big enough tent, and everyone can fit comfortably inside and get along.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-10, 18:16

Yay, here we are again (well, later on, overnight). I've set my alarm for 3:30am so I can get up, watch it, share a few thoughts (if I have any), then get another 3-4 hours of sleep before I have to get up for real. I'm helping someone re-tread/trim out their small, triangular deck tomorrow, so I'll be busy on that from the morning until ??, so I want to get episode 7/chapter 15 seen ASAP before I have to spend the day making noise and sawdust.

Looking forward to my 3:30 alarm going off...there's something fun about lying in bed with my earbuds on early Friday morning, watching a new episode on my iPhone, as my kitty snoozes curled up beside me. That's always a nice way to start off a Friday. And then I get to have fun with the measuring, sawing, nailing stuff tomorrow (I love that kind of work). I'll be a happy clam tomorrow...sunny skies and temps in the mid-60's, which is a pretty nice/mild for mid-December in this area. Great day for some outdoor work. New miter saw blade, drills charging as I speak and the lumber arrives by 9am tomorrow.

A few times a year, I have to at least make the effort to do something remotely manly/useful.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-10, 19:08

Well, on a Disney+ Star Wars streaming note, I see where this just hit (less than 45 minutes ago):

First peak at the Cassian Andor series coming from Disney+ in 2022, and currently in production.

"12 episodes...", so four longer per season than The Mandalorian. I'm hoping The Mandalorian moves to that as well. Eight just zooms by so quickly...two months? At least make it three, a quarter of a year.

The only thing, and it's kinda obvious...how excited/invested are viewers going to get over a character they know is gonna die?

I know some would say the same about an Obi-Wan series, but a) Ewan McGregor, and b) Obi-Wan never truly "dies", does he?

But I was wrong about The Mandalorian, so I need to be open-minded and optimistic about this show. If they've figured out a way to make it fun and all, I guess that whole "ending of Rogue One" angle might not loom over the proceedings.

Just seems an odd character to base a show around. Nobody in that movie really stood out to me, other than Felicity Jones and her little bunny rabbit face. But she died too, so...

Who knows.

In any case, Disney+ seems to be going all in on the streaming Star Wars stuff. If the Kenobi talk is legit - and McGregor himself all but confirmed production starting in early 2021 - that's three shows in the works. If they were smart/clever about timelines, there are opportunities for crossover appearances or shared episodes (Andor was doing his stuff in the time leading up to the original Star Wars 1977 release, when Kenobi was living on Tatooine and keeping an eye on young Luke. But I don't know exactly when they're going to set either show, so the timelines might not work out to allow for that.
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