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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2011-06-07, 23:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
How are you going to look down at the controller and look up at the screen at the same time? Maybe I'm not getting it.

Same basic way that you do it with the DS I'd imagine. Most of the time you are completely focused on one screen, but the secondary screen contains some pertinent game information, a minimap, your inventory, contextual menus...etc. A lot of DS games really don't 'use' the second screen for anything interesting at all, and the majority of the action takes place entirely on one screen, but having that second screen there does give you some flexibility with the types of things you can do.
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dmegatool
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home
 
2011-06-08, 00:08

Skyrim new footage : http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=C9mW-9VnbDU

My social life ends 11-11-11
  quote
dmegatool
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home
 
2011-06-08, 00:11

The DS focus on one screen at the time mostly due to it's limitating hardware too. I think you can't display 3D object on both screen at the same time. Wii U seems more flexible in the utilisation of 2 screens...
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-08, 16:31

LIke, here:



That. That is what I want.

And that is probably the least exciting of the possibilities, haha.
  quote
Xaqtly
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-06-08, 16:41

Hmm. I don't know yet. Whatever else the wiimote was, it sure as hell made Zelda a lot of fun to play because it felt like you were swinging Link's sword. This is going back to the more standard control scheme, but with a 6" inventory palette built in.

Part of the attraction of the wiimote + nunchuck was that they were independent of each other, within the limitations of the cable that attached them. So you could kind of position your hands and forearms in whichever way was most comfortable to you. This is back to locking you into fixed hand positions. But hey, I don't have a problem with it on the PS3 so it's not really as big deal I guess. Just an observation.

I will need a lot more info before deciding whether to get this or not.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-06-08, 17:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
That. That is what I want.


That. That is what I want.

No, not the controller. The controller scheme is retarded. I mean taking out Reggie from the next building.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-08, 17:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
Whatever else the wiimote was, it sure as hell made Zelda a lot of fun to play because it felt like you were swinging Link's sword.
I guess I never really felt that way. It will probably be that way in Skyward Sword, because that game was actually designed for the Wiimote and uses the MotionPlus and everything, but in Twilight Princess it felt sort of tacked on to me. Like, swinging the Wiimote was basically a gesture-activated button-press.

But I'm pretty picky.

In any case, I'm still more excited for the touchscreen. I mean, look at how much junk Skyward Sword has onscreen at all times, holy crap. I can't imagine playing that game in not-widescreen. You wouldn't be able to see anything!

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-08, 17:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
The controller scheme is retarded.
Seriously, am I the only person who likes this? It's like a Gamecube controller (<3) without having to bring up a menu to switch equipment every two seconds. That alone sells me on the concept.

And you know just know that there will be lots of crazy ideas that use the two-screen pairing that we aren't even thinking of yet. Probably a lot of garbage that doesn't really take advantage of it, too, but hey, it's still got buttons.

I mean, I'd play Minecraft with it, which is more than I can say about Kinect (or any other console controller, tbh).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2011-06-08, 17:40

Give me MineCraft for the Wii (or PS3) and I'm in there!
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-06-08, 18:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Seriously, am I the only person who likes this? It's like a Gamecube controller (<3) without having to bring up a menu to switch equipment every two seconds. That alone sells me on the concept.
I absolutely love the idea. I'm iffy on the execution and may to need be "sold" on it in person.

edit: I started to enumerate all my concerns here, but really it all boils down to ergonomic issues (lots of those) and technical capabilities/limitations (not as many of those).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
but hey, it's still got buttons.
That's one thing that puts the Wii U controller light years ahead of any iPad for gaming, at least!
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-06-08, 19:50

I'd hate to die because I was looking down at the inventory on my controller. D'oh!
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2011-06-08, 23:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Seriously, am I the only person who likes this? It's like a Gamecube controller (<3) without having to bring up a menu to switch equipment every two seconds. That alone sells me on the concept.
Big difference between the Screenmote and the GC controller(which itself is spiritually similar to the Xbox controller). It is the analog stick arrangement. Having both analog sticks on the same horizontal plane is kind of weird. It makes more sense to have them offset with buttons above the right analog stick as it is with the GC and the Xbox. I mean, I know the PS3 does it that way, and the PS2 did as well. But I never really liked it there either, but at least reaching up towards the buttons felt pretty comfortable.

I mean, maybe it could work, but I just really don't like the idea of reaching down for buttons.

I also don't like how small all of those buttons look, and the analog sticks themselves look kind of like 'slider' sticks, like what you'd see on a PSP or 3DS, also kind of a weird compromise.

Don't get me wrong here, I think the controller is great for the most part and combined with a ~PS3 caliber system should produce some really top notch games. But, the way the controller is designed does make it look like the buttons were kind of tacked on, and the touchscreen is what they want you to focus on/care about.
  quote
dmegatool
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home
 
2011-06-09, 08:28

The joystick seems indeed the worst of all. Everybody loves the dualshock but I think Microsoft wins hands down when it comes to joystick.

Wonder what's the weight of that huge controller... And how does it feel in hand. I mean, people complained about the first Xbox controller to be too big. This one is like 3x bigger.
  quote
torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2011-06-09, 08:29

The dual screen handhelds work, IMHO, because of the proximity of the screens to one another. You don't have to move your eyes to see the other screen, only shift your attention. Your head doesn't need to move, etc. It's all right there but you're not attending to it. This thing? You'll have to move your head/eyes, orient yourself, do what you're wanting to do then move your head/eyes, orient yourself again on the larger screen. It's the definition of breaking the mood of a game.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
  quote
macinations
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
 
2011-06-09, 10:53

that looks ridiculously amazing
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-09, 10:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmegatool View Post
Wonder what's the weight of that huge controller... And how does it feel in hand.
According to Thisismynext, "It’s very comfortable to hold, with nice contours on the back that seem made for our hands, and it’s lighter than it looks."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmegatool
I mean, people complained about the first Xbox controller to be too big. This one is like 3x bigger.
The problem with the Xbox controller wasn't its width as much as the wide spread of the buttons across the face of the device, requiring players with smaller hands to sort of palm it like a basketball and make uncomfortably wide thumb movements to reach everything.* I mean, the PSP is wider than the original Xbox controller, but no one complains about that feeling uncomfortably wide (if anything, the PSP has the exact opposite problem, forcing the player to cradle it in their fingertips rather than grip it). So I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that the "Wii Pad" will fall victim to the same ergonomic issues as the Xbox controller simply because of its width. The buttons don't seem too spread out.

I mean, look down at your hands the next time you're playing a game with the Wii Remote and Nunchuck. You're almost certainly holding them further apart than the two sides of the Xbox controller, but nobody complains about that feeling huge because the buttons are still right there (holding them closer together while still holding them straight ahead would actually require uncomfortable wrist angles). Put a screen between that Wii Remote and Nunchuck. There you go! That's this.

You'd have a point if Nintendo expected all players to be able to reach the center of their touchscreen with their thumbs, for example, but every PR photo I've seen shows the player gripping the controller with one hand while touching the screen with an index finger on (or a stylus held in) the other. Any "thumbable" options will almost certainly be at the edges of the screen; pressing those looks like it would require only about as much travel as pressing Select or Start on a DualShock. (The Wii U's Select/Start/Home buttons are obviously further out of the way, but I don't see that as being a huge issue.)

This isn't the first time Nintendo's made a wide controller; there was a Gamecube controller with an integrated keyboard as well. It was wider than the original Xbox controller but it was just as comfortable as the regular Gamecube controller because the buttons were still in their same position under your thumbs; the two sides were just further apart. That's what this reminds me of.

*) An equally large but less well-remembered problem with the original Xbox controller was the small, hard, oval, and uncomfortably domed action buttons, but that's neither here nor there.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-09, 11:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
I absolutely love the idea. I'm iffy on the execution and may to need be "sold" on it in person.
I'm not saying I don't have reservations. I mean, we don't really know how the whole thing works, do we? I would like to think that the "Wii Pad" is essentially a low-power standalone tablet, but that doesn't seem to be the case; it's sounding more and more like the Wii U console does all the rendering and pushes the graphics out to the tablet using something akin to WiDi (which is why it seems like...there can only be one ). I can understand the desire to keep the tablet(s) from having to wirelessly "load" the game program from the Wii U console, but I think they're missing a pretty huge opportunity there. (What is it with Nintendo and crippling their hardware because of their fear of load times?) And let's be real, they really could include an actual low-power standalone tablet with the console for $250-300 in late 2012; the new Nook has a higher-resolution 6" display using more expensive E Ink display technology and more expensive IR touch technology and that's $139 now. They just want to make gobs of money on it, just like they're making gobs of money by selling the 3DS for the same price as the freaking PS Vita.

So yes, I do fear that — just as with the Wii Remote — they're going to touch upon (ho-ho!) a great idea, but they'll shoot themselves in the foot by doing it on the cheap and doing it sort of backwards, making it not quite as cool as everyone thought it would be and leaving it for their competitors to do it right.

But I still think it'll be better than the Wii, just because I'm not sure there's a touchscreen equivalent for "shipping with only an accelerometer while selling people on the concept of slick gyro-based 1:1 control, thus disappointing everyone by delivering only loose waggle gestures."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
That's one thing that puts the Wii U controller light years ahead of any iPad for gaming, at least!
You'll laugh at me, but even though I love my iPad and think the 9.7"/4:3 form factor is better for general use tablets, I would love a 7" widescreen "game tablet" with buttons for games. Basically like a Nook Color only instead of being "The Reader's Tablet™" it would be the gamers' tablet. In fact, while I generally think getting even remotely close to competing with Apple is business suicide, if I "Had Money" I would develop and market just such a device, when I wasn't building electric trucks and simpler set top boxes, that is. I think there's room in the market for tablets that target specific segments at sizes and price points that Apple will never hit. And Apple will certainly never make a tablet with buttons.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2011-06-09, 11:39

The U controller reminds me of the Dreamcast, too.
  quote
dmegatool
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home
 
2011-06-09, 11:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
According to Thisismynext, "It’s very comfortable to hold, with nice contours on the back that seem made for our hands, and it’s lighter than it looks."

The problem with the Xbox controller wasn't its width as much as the wide spread of the buttons across the face of the device, requiring players with smaller hands to sort of palm it like a basketball and make uncomfortably wide thumb movements to reach everything.*
Good point. I never got the complains about the xBox controller. In fact, I liked it better the the revised model (minus the black and white buttons). I guess I have some big hands I didn't think people complained about the buttons being hard to reach. I thought the size/weight was mostly the problem.

Dave Mustaine :"God created whammy bars for people who don't know how to solo."
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-06-09, 12:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
According to Thisismynext, "It’s very comfortable to hold, with nice contours on the back that seem made for our hands, and it’s lighter than it looks."
Which review are you reading? I just checked thisismynext.com, and not being a regular reader, it looks like they are less enthusiastic:

"As light as the hardware is, the size (10.5 x 6.8 inches) feels overly cumbersome."

Also,

"the lack of multi-touch is pretty disappointing"
"the top triggers are awkward to reach"
"The controller still feels beta to me"

And one item that really bothered me when I saw video and pictures of the controller:

"the right joystick, which itself is more of a multi-direction slider with a smooth top. I didn’t feel like I was battling drones in Ghost Recon Online — more so, I felt like my thumb was fighting the controller to aim where I wanted it to. I’m not sure why these were chosen over other joystick options — the Vita has great sticks, and they don’t stick out obnoxiously at all."

"Paul didn't have as much of a problem as I did, but I found it really hard to grip my thumb on it. Especially irksome during the Ghost Recon demo, trying to aim and fighting by proxy with the multi-directional slider."

"The dual analog sticks aren't the best" (Paul)

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-09, 12:37

This one! I quoted from the first paragraph in the "Hardware" section.

Paul Miller seems to like it. Ross Miller (no relation) doesn't. So far nobody seems to be in love with the dual "circle pads" though.

As for the rest, anyone expecting capacitive multitouch on a controller from Nintendo is crazy. The $250 3DS doesn't even have it on its tiny 3" screen! And the Wii Pad is beta hardware, so.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2011-06-09, 13:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
The dual screen handhelds work, IMHO, because of the proximity of the screens to one another. You don't have to move your eyes to see the other screen, only shift your attention. Your head doesn't need to move, etc. It's all right there but you're not attending to it. This thing? You'll have to move your head/eyes, orient yourself, do what you're wanting to do then move your head/eyes, orient yourself again on the larger screen. It's the definition of breaking the mood of a game.

Still though, when I play DS games, my focus is so completely dominated by one screen or the other, the second screen might as well not be there most of the time(save for, of course, the games that actively use both screens in tandem). Also, I really don't think in terms of field of vision that if you are reclining with the screenmote perched in front of you, that it will feel like a major distance/space leap to put your eyes up and focus on the main screen. In terms of forced perspective, the two will be right on top of each other.

The other thing to consider about the validity of this method of input is the fact that high-end home theater systems have used controllers like this for ages. Large, touchscreen enabled + buttons, outside of their usually having piss poor interfaces and sharp learning curves, the whole 'trying to look at two screens at once' problem just doesn't really come up, at least, not in my experience.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-06-09, 13:44

The biggest problem I have with the screenmote so far is that it doesn't have analog sticks, it has analog nubs. I hate nubs. I guess they're acceptable on portable hardware but for a console controller? No sticks is a dealbreaker.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-10, 00:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
The biggest problem I have with the screenmote so far is that it doesn't have analog sticks, it has analog nubs. I hate nubs. I guess they're acceptable on portable hardware but for a console controller? No sticks is a dealbreaker.
The "circle pads" certainly seem to be the least popular aspect of the controller. I haven't had a chance to use a 3DS yet; from what I've heard its circle pad is tighter and more comfortable than the PSP's analog nub, but it's still no analog stick. Why they wouldn't just use analog sticks is admittedly a little puzzling.

But the hardware is still over a year out yet, so there's potential for changes. The Wii Remote that hit stores in 2006 had some changes from the version that was unveiled at TGS 2005, so...there's hope.

Nintendo's stock has taken a tumble. I don't think that's because investors just hate the Wii U; I think they're probably disappointed Nintendo did not more directly address the threat from Cupertino. I mean, let's be real, the Wii U is probably no different than it would have been if Apple's massively successful iOS products had never happened.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2011-06-10, 04:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
let's be real, the Wii U is probably no different than it would have been if Apple's massively successful iOS products had never happened.

Which is an interesting observation that further peddles the idea that Nintendo is the Apple of video games. Sure, Apple is liable to respond directly to competition and add features/specs to match their rivals from time to time, but their default behavior is decidedly marching to their own beat. Nintendo is much the same way. They have a 'vision' or an ideal of what gaming should be that they have arguably held for going on 30 years now(acknowledging that Nintendo is technically an extremely old company), the technology has not always been there to accommodate, but as the pieces fall into place, I think the presentation of what the Wii U can be, in conjunction with what the DS became, paints a pretty strong picture of what they have been gearing towards for a while.

But, as you pointed out. This could potentially be a failing/undoing, since video games are just inherently more niche than consumer electronics/phones/computers. Apple can get away with doing their own thing, becoming ludicrously successful and not have to really face the risk of the bottom falling out because their dominant sectors are so much more inclusive. Nintendo(And Sony and MS as well to a lesser degree) are constantly vying for attention against so many other potent modern distraction devices, some of which didn't even really try at first to be game systems but end up sort of effortlessly becoming serious contenders(such as the iPod Touch and iPhone).
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-11, 17:23

The dumbest thing ever.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-14, 17:17



The Wii U looks longer than the Wii, no?



Wooo HDMI.

Also, Level-5's White Knight Chronicles 2, which just came out in Europe, is coming to America on August 2. It includes the original White Knight Chronicles, for free! Level-5 is all about the unbeatable value, like Target.

No word yet on if the US release of Level-5's Professor Layton and the Last Specter will come with the 100-hour London Life RPG that the Japanese release came with for free. It better!

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-14, 17:53

Biggest E3 disappointments, anyone?

Still no word on an English release for the Level-5/Studio Ghibli masterpiece Ni no Kuni (The Another World). It got 38/40 from Famitsu! It was the most pre-ordered Level-5 game ever! It really needs to see a wider release.

No word on a North American release for White Knight Chronicles: Origins, even though it's already out in Europe.

No word on an English release for Hironobu Sakaguchi's The Last Story, which also received a 38/40 from Famitsu.

Also, the North American release of Xenoblade Chronicles appears to be cancelled.

WTH, Nintendo? The Wii U doesn't come out until (likely late) next year. You're going to need some Wii games to ship in the 18 months until then. I mean, last holiday season wasn't that great, for the Wii, and this holiday has Zelda and that's pretty much it, as far as AAA titles go. And the new console is a year away!

Successful consoles aren't supposed to lose steam like that. The PS1 didn't. The PS2 didn't. And you have the games, Nintendo. They're done. Just released them stateside, FFS.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2011-06-14, 18:21

Biggest disappointment: Not enough (good) TOR news. Where are the in-depths on the Force-using classes? Like I get that shooting is other peoples' thing but I want to hear about the Sith Warrior because I want to fuck shit up with a lightsaber, where is my news?! Where's the beta announcements, nevermind the goddamned release date? If they're really aiming for Q2/Q3 shit should be announced man. Also, SYSREQS NOW.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-06-14, 22:44

May 2011 was the worst month for console sales since October 2006, which was, of course, the month before the both Wii and PlayStation 3 came out.

So sales were really dreadful, in other words.

What's disconcerting about this is that the Kinect just turned six months old in early June. But we haven't really seen much additional software for it, past that launch rush, have we? We'll see another big push this holiday, too, but big holiday pushes do not a sustainable platform make.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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