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WTC: Finally some sense (from Trump of all people)


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WTC: Finally some sense (from Trump of all people)
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-18, 10:57

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/stor...p-265717c.html
http://www.triroc.com/wtc/

So, Donald Trump has decided to back and push for a design from a different architect and engineer. The design mirrors the old twin towers but is modernized and larger.

I have to say, I like this plan and design better than the freedom tower. Especially since Freedom Tower is a retarded name. The whole concept of the freedom tower and accompanying complex seemed weak to me. The design has trump says seemed like a skeleton. It also seemed pushed through simply so Pataki and Bloomberg would leave their mark on it.

Before today I was never much of a supporter of the idea to simply rebuild them, but after seeing the mockups and models of this new design I have to say its the first one that really made me feel good and that I truly liked and would feel comfortable seeing everyday when I look out my window and see the twin tower's replacement. Everyone is of course different, but this design would get my vote.
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thuh Freak
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2005-05-18, 11:11

meh. i wasn't a big fan of the other plans, but i do think the towers should look different than before.
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BuonRotto
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2005-05-18, 11:14

It's horrendous, and so was the original.
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-18, 11:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto
It's horrendous, and so was the original.


I knew you would say something along those lines.

The fortunate thing that I think can come from this and from Trump putting some money and publicitity behind it is that it may open up the process to some more ideas. I have a feeling, the public of NY will get behind this design quite a bit more than the Freedom Tower design.

This idea lacks imagination and doesn't do architectural justice to NY but the Freedom Tower idea sucks more at this point.
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rageous
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2005-05-18, 11:52

I KNEW in the back of my head that when the freedom tower got scrapped that Trump and his combover were going to weasel in on the redesign. The guy amazes me. How many businesses does he have to have go bankrupt before people realize he's a hack?
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WBG4
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2005-05-18, 12:38

Don't worry they'll probably never build anything there cause of all the BS that goes with getting these plans approved. I have always supported rebuilding the towers more or less as they were because i don't know i think that shows how strong you are

Comic sans sucks.
That is all
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Mister Black
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2005-05-18, 14:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by WBG4
I have always supported rebuilding the towers more or less as they were because i don't know i think that shows how strong you are
This makes sense. To rebuild the towers exactly as they were, like a wound healing cleanly with no scarring, would be a strong statement to the world saying, "We're still here, unfazed, ready for business as usual."

Unfortunately instead of healing our wounds, making our peace with the governments of the world, and apologizing (yes, apologizing) where appropriate, the US government used the events of september 11 to remove freedom under the guise of security, scare the crap out of the citizenry, and proceeded to delare war on everyone we haven't bought yet. I think the Freedom Tower is the perfect replacement for the twin towers because, like the patriot act, it represents not what america aspires for, but what it has become. Like Trump says, "Why are we building this monstrous 'skeleton' known as Freedom Tower? If Freedom Tower is built, the terrorists win." The terrorists won already! We're terrorized! That's why The Dept Of Homeland Security exists. Thats why we'll continue to elect racist white men with bankrolls and tunnel vision to run the country. And that's why we don't deserve another twin towers.
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thuh Freak
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2005-05-18, 17:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Black
Unfortunately instead of healing our wounds, making our peace with the governments of the world, and apologizing (yes, apologizing) where appropriate, the US government used the events of september 11 to remove freedom under the guise of security, scare the crap out of the citizenry, and proceeded to delare war on everyone we haven't bought yet. I think the Freedom Tower is the perfect replacement for the twin towers because, like the patriot act, it represents not what america aspires for, but what it has become. Like Trump says, "Why are we building this monstrous 'skeleton' known as Freedom Tower? If Freedom Tower is built, the terrorists win." The terrorists won already! We're terrorized! That's why The Dept Of Homeland Security exists. Thats why we'll continue to elect racist white men with bankrolls and tunnel vision to run the country. And that's why we don't deserve another twin towers.
uhm

the old ones were pretty drab. besides: its ~4years later, and we've yet to approve of plans to build (WTF). do we want to finish rebuilding babble and years years later and saying, "yea, you knocked us down for a decade there. but look {licking wounds} we're almost just like before." real estate takes a hgue amount of time to construct. i think we have to put somethign different there, or the old ones should have been re-up'ed already. also, i think the image of the old towers is too emotional for a lot of people still; particularly new yorkers.
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johnq
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2005-05-18, 18:11

I originally wanted the towers to be redone, but it's already so late (cooler heads prevailing, and all), I don't want them anymore.

But I despise Lebskind "anything". Let him shit elsewhere.
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Quagmire
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2005-05-18, 18:35

I support Trump for once! Actually, I never supported the Freedom Towers. Ugly design, not as strong as originals( I mean the majority of the building is glass over steel by the looks of it), and these towers would never be as symbolic as the original twin towers. What if the Washington Monument collapsed? Would we redesign it? I would think not. I think if any symbol to this country, was attacked and collapsed or been destroyed, that we should rebuild them like they were before, but with major improvements to make it more resistant to future attacks. There was nothing wrong with the originals, the only thing is that the designers cut corners to save money. The dry wall protecting the core, the fireproofing was not the best, and more.

Quote:
The skin, core, and flooring could be completed within two years, fully, and truly restoring the skyline.
If you follow to the site of the design that is linked by the article you get their plan. This is part of their plan. I don't think they could rebuild 2 towers, taller then the predecessors in 2 years. This is just the buildings though. Not the electrical, plumbing etc.

giggity
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Amadeus
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2005-05-18, 19:33

I not necessarily behind one plan or the other. Do think that the WTC should be rebuilt. Just not the original design, it should be a modern design.
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Robo
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2005-05-18, 20:05

I think that, if the ground could possibly support it, the new WTC should be the tallest buildings in the world.
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Quagmire
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2005-05-18, 20:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
I think that, if the ground could possibly support it, the new WTC should be the tallest buildings in the world.

Both the Freedom towers and this newly redesigned Twin towers would be the tallest in the world. When/if completed.
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Banana
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2005-05-18, 21:30

Ahhhh..... Nothing like a little compensating....

[Clint Eastwood] think you can stop me, ya dirty rat? Well, here's a piece of action for ya! [/Clint Eastwood]
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Moogs
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2005-05-18, 21:46

Trump is latin for douche bag. Good thing Daley got the last word on his building in Chicago... heheheh... toupe bitch.
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-19, 01:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto
It's horrendous, and so was the original.
you know. NYers disagree with you. Americans disagree with you. By overwhelming majority, this is exactly what people want. I have to admit, this is the first time I have been moved by a design. It brought back memories, reading about the plans and ideas triggered my emotions and brought back the tears. Reading the emails sent into MSNBC in regards to this plan and the anecdotes that people shared was powerful. People who were effected by this, people who live in NY, people who had a connection with the WTC, like this plan and agree with it.

It is simply your opinion that they were horrendous. I always thought they had an understated beauty and power to themselves. They certainly defined the NY skyline and anything else simply would not be the same. Maybe things shouldn't be the same, who knows, but if you are going to rebuild and you are going to claim to have an open design process with the public's opinion taken into account then you better listen to the public.

The first politician that jumps behind this plan and Trump is going to gain great public respect and most important votes. Pataki is in a very tough position right now. Trump just screwed him. For Pataki to go forward with the terrible Freedom Tower plan would mean he would have a hard time winning any future election. It's simply not what people want, it's plagued with problems and its clear its beaucracy that is pushing the plan through, problems and all.
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Moogs
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2005-05-19, 08:32

Trump has about as much design sense as a wild boar. I don't believe a majority of the American people would want this "re-design". I don't really know about New Yorkers. Ultimately it's your city and our symbol but... the WTC is gone. It died that day.

This to me smacks of trying to "bring it back". I don't like it at all. You start with a blank slate and you make a new beginning (whether it's the freedom tower or something else). You don't make a larger carbon copy of the old towers. Yah maybe it's a more direct way to give terrorists the finger but WhoTF cares what they think of our new design? I did two weeks after 9/11, but after a few years to let it settle, I couldn't give a shit whether they are upset by it or not.

There needs to be something new, something fresh. A new legacy. Not a reminder of the old legacy. Trump and this designer have it completely wrong.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Eugene
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2005-05-19, 08:33

I liked the original WTC towers. They weren't pretty, but they were impressive to look upon. They were like a pair of freakin' giant monoliths soaring out of a part of the Manhattan skyline that has relatively few really tall office buildings around it...

Rectangular as they were, they certainly weren't boring to look at. The Freedom Tower was boring and typical of conventional architecture. As if lattices and odd angles made beautiful architecture...gah... I miss the old twin towers.
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Moogs
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2005-05-19, 08:45

I didn't say the original towers weren't impressive. I liked their design and simple lines. What I don't want is a lame attempt to resurrect them. They are GONE. This whole notion of rebuilding things to "be like it was" is arrogant and almost childish in a way. The idea is to make a new beginning and a new symbol for ourselves, not to build a reminder, which is all these new towers would be. "Look, just like the old ones".

It's the wrong approach. If the White House or the Supreme Court or Capitol Hill had been destroyed, yes maybe I can see why we'd want it to be the same on the outside. But those are the only three structures I can think of where I'd prefer to see the new structure be a carbon copy rather than a new symbol that stands upon the ground of the old ones.

The WTC are gone; to try and bring them back is bordering on disrespect, and the fact that Trump is behind it solidifies my opinion all the more, as that guy's motives are always suspect. And I mean always.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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BuonRotto
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2005-05-19, 08:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut
you know. NYers disagree with you. Americans disagree with you. By overwhelming majority, this is exactly what people want.
I don't care about popular opinion if it's wrong. A popular majority voted for W. A popular majority supported going into Iraq. A popular majority thinks that Extreme Makeover: Home Edition is a display of good design. The majority think wish to believe they live in the 19th century but a more convenient and hygenic one.

Rebuilding the trade towers is pointless. Oh, excuse me, they're not just rebuilding because this time they go to 111! It's a joke. Laughable. Dumb. It's architectural Spinal Tap. Bigger isn't better if bigger is just more of the old ugly, pointless crap that was there before. What' more, even if it were a beautiful design before, you're just ignoring history -- thousands died there. Life changed for me and a lot of other people, and no amount of erasure will really make that go away, and it won't remember and respect the dead like it really should. Sorry if reality isn't something people want to deal with, but this design is an axe to the forehead, which is not the message I think we want to say about ourselves let alone what we want to say to others. Rebuilding the towers says that 1. we really are simply preoccupied with money and material worth more than human life and it really was an appropriate target, and 2. that we can't do anything better, that that we're so ossified and recalcitrant as a people that our monuments and culture are stagnant and devoid of anything new to express beyond what we already had. Did 9/11 not make a difference to anyone? Shouldn't that be expressed? Oh, I forgot, it goes to 111!

It's an ignorant and disrespectful conceit.

That's my opinion, and I don't care if I'm the only person to believes that because I know I'm right.
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Moogs
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2005-05-19, 10:31

Quote:
I don't care about popular opinion if it's wrong. A popular majority voted for W. A popular majority supported going into Iraq. A popular majority thinks that Extreme Makeover: Home Edition is a display of good design. The majority think wish to believe they live in the 19th century but a more convenient and hygenic one.
Quote of the new millennium ™.


While I think it's very important to get some popular consensus on whatever new design goes up (you don't want to make these decisions in a vacuum), the whole notion that some concept must be valid because a popular majority of Americans said it was OK, is often more than a little misguided.

Another point is that the original WTC were built and designed in another time with different aesthetic values. People back then were into the "bigger and blocky is better" thing. Look at many of the airplanes and automobiles and houses of the same generation...

...I would like to delude myself into believing the people in this country who really pay attention and value such debates as this, would have a more well-rounded appreciation of different types of architectural aesthetics than their predecessors in the 60s and 70s (and even 80s).

It's time to redefine the skyline there with something that is not only commercially viable and functional, but something that has an element of subtle beauty to it also. I agree with Buon and will reiterate I think rebuilding WTC-like towers is arrogant. Such a plan would presume to replace the irreplaceable. Just like all the victims inside, the towers are gone. Let them stay gone as a part of that memory. To remake them is just... ugh. It's so Trump, isn't it? So devoid of [balanced thinking and open-minded ideas].

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-05-19 at 10:37.
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Quagmire
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2005-05-19, 14:08

I repeat, what if the Washington Monument was attacked and collapsed? Will we redesign it? I hope not. It may not be a beautiful building, but the Twin Towers was a symbol of this country. The freedom towers is just another normal building that is being built on legendary land. The Twin towers was a symbol ever since the attacks in '92. I don't support when a symbol is attacked and collapsed, it gets a redesign, just build it the same way with enhancements.

giggity
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Moogs
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2005-05-19, 15:13

Except that it's not really a symbol in the same sense as the Washington Monument (or White House or Supreme Court as I mentioned). It's more a financial symbol than anything. I don't want to get bogged down in semantics but to me there are precious few structures in this country which have such strong meaning to us (visually) that they should absolutely be "cloned", should something ever befall them.

The WTC are not among them IMO. While they were definitely symbolic of our financial might and a certain period in our history, I don't think they were symbolic in the way the White House or Washington Monument or Mt. Rushmore are. Also, because of the shear number of people that died inside... I just don't feel it's right to try and rebuild it. Let the victims and the towers rest so to speak. Gone but not forgotten.

There are better ideas than Trump's, and you can rest assured he has a vested financial or political interest or he wouldn't be running his mouth like he is. The asshole is using a tragedy for his own gain most likely. As soon as he used the toxic "If we do ____, the terrorists win!", [you can pretty well figure] he is not being driven by any sort of altruism here. He's out for #1, as usual.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-19, 15:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
There are better ideas than Trump's, and you can rest assured he has a vested financial or political interest or he wouldn't be running his mouth like he is. The asshole is using a tragedy for his own gain most likely. As soon as he used the toxic "If we do ____, the terrorists win!", [you can pretty well figure] he is not being driven by any sort of altruism here. He's out for #1, as usual.
Trump has no financial play in this. In fact, he has no role at all. Perhaps he is simply a New Yorker who has grown tired of the bullshit surrounding the "Freedom Tower" and he has the money and publicity to make it known. The idea of having a design competition between a bunch of "world leading architects" chosen by politicians was ridiculous, the plan that was decided upon was ridiculous. Every public official and official from the Lower Manhattan Redevelopment group that defends the Freedom Tower by saying it was an open process is a liar. The Freedom Tower is nothing more than Bloomberg, pataki and the other officials involved wanting to be the ones responsible for a new skyline, for replacing the twin towers with something grandiose.

Quote:
Trump has about as much design sense as a wild boar. I don't believe a majority of the American people would want this "re-design". I don't really know about New Yorkers. Ultimately it's your city and our symbol but... the WTC is gone. It died that day.
Every poll I have ever seen has suggested otherwise.

Quote:
The WTC are gone; to try and bring them back is bordering on disrespect, and the fact that Trump is behind it solidifies my opinion all the more, as that guy's motives are always suspect. And I mean always.
I think building the "freedom tower" would be borderline disrespect.

Quote:
I don't care about popular opinion if it's wrong. A popular majority voted for W. A popular majority supported going into Iraq. A popular majority thinks that Extreme Makeover: Home Edition is a display of good design. The majority think wish to believe they live in the 19th century but a more convenient and hygenic one.
stick to the topic and try not to go off the deep end and turn this into an argument its not, in fact, it isnt even an argument, its a discussion

Quote:
Rebuilding the trade towers is pointless. Oh, excuse me, they're not just rebuilding because this time they go to 111! It's a joke. Laughable. Dumb. It's architectural Spinal Tap. Bigger isn't better if bigger is just more of the old ugly, pointless crap that was there before.
as opposed to the crap architecture that the freedom tower will be? Certainly seems to be uglier, and more pointless than what was there before.

Quote:
Rebuilding the towers says that 1. we really are simply preoccupied with money and material worth more than human life and it really was an appropriate target, and 2. that we can't do anything better, that that we're so ossified and recalcitrant as a people that our monuments and culture are stagnant and devoid of anything new to express beyond what we already had. Did 9/11 not make a difference to anyone? Shouldn't that be expressed? Oh, I forgot, it goes to 111!
1. any design will do that.
2. it's not that we can't do better. bigger, better, stronger. it's what people want, heck, it's the american way. maybe you don't want to think that but it's true. Two similar towers that are better designed and built stronger would do more justice to the site and disaster than anything else I have seen yet. How does the freedom tower do it justice? If anything it just promotes forgetting what happened by completing neglecting any architectural elements from the twin towers.

Quote:
It's an ignorant and disrespectful conceit.

That's my opinion, and I don't care if I'm the only person to believes that because I know I'm right.
there is no right or wrong here. I'm glad you speak for everyone though.

Quote:
Another point is that the original WTC were built and designed in another time with different aesthetic values. People back then were into the "bigger and blocky is better" thing. Look at many of the airplanes and automobiles and houses of the same generation...
and what will the freedom tower be? an ugly design from an era when people thought strange angles and midjoints and empty skeleton floors were cool?
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-19, 15:32

Quote:
Trump to spearhead Twin Tower effort (David Shuster)


I would hate to be New York Governor George Pataki. As I write this blog, the press release from Donald Trump is on the way. Every major political leader and news organization in New York is about to learn that Trump is planning to hold a blockbuster news conference Wednesday morning. Trump will announce he is going to spearhead a group of developers to rebuild the Twin Towers stronger, safer, and taller than they were before 9/11.

At his Wednesday morning press conference, Trump will stand next to the 9-foot tall model featured on MSNBC last week that was built by Ken Gardner of the group makeNYNYagain.com. I'm told that Trump has now inspected the detailed model, will stand next to it Wednesday morning... and will announce something along the lines of, "Here is the proposal, it's ready to go, and it's time for the greatest city in the world to put the Twin Towers back up."

Governor Pataki, who still seems to be clinging to his embattled and publicly despised Freedom Tower, now has 24 hours to make the biggest decision of his political life. He can join the Twin Tower bandwagon, turn his poll numbers around, and launch a presidential campaign based on the spirit that will be on display Wednesday morning. Or, Governor Pataki can continue to stand for what Trump calls "a 60-story building with a skeleton on top." If Pataki chooses the latter, he will see his legacy permanently exiled to the dustbin of New York political history.


FREE VIDEO


• Trump says rebuild
May 12: Real estate mogul Donald Trump wants the Twin Towers rebuilt, only higher and better. He minces no words as he speaks with MSNBC's Chris Matthews.
MSNBC

New York Senators Schumer and Clinton also face a critical decision. They may not pay an immediate price if they don't join Trump Wednesday morning. But they will soon be asked about the blueprints, the models, and the ideas about what New York should and should not stand for. And I would hate to be a 2008 presidential candidate from New York and have to explain why my position on the Twin Towers came after statements issued by John McCain or John Kerry. Likewise, I would hate to be a John McCain or John Kerry and see a rival like Hillary Rodham Clinton grab this issue first.

Leadership, of course, is about taking a position. Donald Trump has been asked before about the Twin Towers being a "target again" and a "tough rent." But he plans to talk about transforming Ground Zero from a symbol of death, as it is now, to a place that honors life and the American spirit. The White House, the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon, and buildings in New York may all be potential targets. But in America, as Trump plans to articulate, we don't let terrorists dictate our skylines, our opinions, our speech, or our future. Trump believes, as other developers do, that once the Twin Towers are built, they will both be fully occupied, despite fears of another attack. Why? It's as simple as this: Never mind the advanced technology that would make these buildings the safest in the world... If you live anywhere in this great nation of ours and are trying to decide which company to give your personal business to, are you going to choose the company based in Hoboken, New Jersey... or the company that has the office in the new World Trade Twin Towers? Not all of us will have an opportunity to rent an office on the 115th floor of one of the new Twin Towers. But every American will be with those who do.

And now, it's only a matter of time before our nation recognizes the powerful American spirit reawakening in New York... and tells any politician who tries to stand in the way, "You're fired.
MSNBC
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-05-19, 15:32

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Rebuild them! (Keith Olbermann)

SECAUCUS - They were just a few feet tall and not even as solidly constructed as the old architectural models my father would sometimes bring home from the office for me when I was a kid - but they affected me in a way I never would have imagined.

The towers of The World Trade Center.

They were in our studios yesterday, plastic recreations of the originals, dragged in by groups who are taking advantage of the security concerns about the planned “Freedom Tower” to push the simple idea that the best way to memorialize the victims and restore the community is to re-build the towers exactly as they stood until three and a half years ago.

They're absolutely right - with one minor caveat. One of the towers should be exactly 229 feet, four inches shorter than the other. I'll explain why in a bit.


FREE VIDEO


• Rebuilding WTC
May 13: The governor of New York plans on revising the design of the so-called "Freedom Tower" where the World Trade Center once stood. Is this the best way to memorialize the victims and restore the community?
MSNBC

Before that, I have a confession to make. My first job in television was in the lobby of WTC #1 (as they used to call it; I never heard “North Tower” or “South Tower” until the day of the attacks). That's where CNN's New York bureau was located until 1984 - behind a two-story thick glass wall that, when we put the studio lights on, made us look like a very cheap high school science experiment.

I hated the place. I mean, if you work in the city's tallest building and you're stuck in the lobby, you develop a mean streak about it. The place was comically understaffed (the first two years, we didn't have a receptionist - whoever was closest to the front door opened it, for staffers, visitors, and bag ladies alike). The commute - from almost anywhere else in the city - was wearying. The mall beneath the towers was a desert, and the neighborhood a wasteland (the dilapidated old West Side Highway still stood - kinda - out the doors to West Street, and the only amusements were those days when big hunks of it would crash to the roadway below). Worst of all, the air conditioning used to go out on an almost regular basis. You've never known heat until you've worked in a television studio without ventilation. Suits pressed while you wear them.

As I hinted above, my father's an architect, so I had inherited the typical aesthetic condescension of his profession. What the heck was this Trade Center design supposed to be? The world's largest salute to Oblong, perhaps - with the faux-gothic grillwork on the outside tacked on in a fruitless attempt to class up the joint.

I went in there to clean out my desk on the afternoon of Saturday, March 31, 1984. I would not return until September 11, 2001.

Suddenly, of course, the sense of drudgery that only a disliked workplace can represent had been transformed into the terrible meaning we all now intuit. And that gaudy grillwork - the only remains standing - stuck out against the smoking pyre of the place with the starkness, and the sudden antiquity, of the Roman Colloseum. The feelings, I needn't tell you. 40 days as a street reporter in and around the scene of the catastrophe managed to reshape even my memories of the buildings I once dismissed as merely a great deal of weight sitting on top of the place I did my sportscasts.

And as the searing pain of those first few weeks gradually gave way to sadness and thoughts of what, if anything, should be placed on this most hallowed ground, the only thing, the only thing that seemed to make sense, was the towers recreated, as originally designed, oblong boxiness and all - with that one minor caveat about the 229 feet and four inches. I wasn't among the voices insisting that only rebuilding it as it was would show we hadn't been “beaten” - merely that all other forms of construction there would offend the sensibility, and diminish, not enhance, the remembrance.

I hadn't thought much of it lately. The process of healing is a regretful one in a way. We're designed to forget - not forget the whole, but merely the sharp edges. I hadn't forgotten the Trade Center, nor my three years in it. Nor had I forgotten the fact that some creatures had managed to use two planes that each contained a friend of mine (Ace Bailey, the former hockey player and executive, was on one, and Tom Pecorelli, who had been one of the studio cameramen for my shows at Fox Sports, was on the other), to kill so many innocents in the buildings, including two college classmates of mine (Mike Tanner and Eamon McEneaney, who happened also to have been the quarterback and the receiver for Cornell University in the first sporting event I ever actually got paid to cover).

Those things hadn't passed, and they won't. Nor will the simple reality that it all happened - a reality that will still of a morning unexpectedly punch me in the stomach, or make me wonder for a moment if something so horrible could've actually occurred, or if I must have imagined it in a consummate moment in a dream from an endless night.

But I'd forgotten about the rightness of putting the Trade Center back where it stood. Forgotten it, until I saw that model yesterday, and it all came back to me.

The “Freedom Tower” design wasn't somebody trying to be disrespectful; it was just the unavoidable project of an architectural trend in which everything must look like somebody just built it with a kid's erector set. The Hearst/Conde Nast building is just getting finished not far from my home, and it's that same style: Attach Beam A to Side Support B, Tap Support B with a pen to make sure it sounds as tinny as it looks.

But it was wrong.

The best way - the only way - to further soothe the pain is, as the proponents including Donald Trump are suggesting, to rebuild it as it was. Which brings me to my caveat.

I'd use the original blueprints and design the “new” Trade Center exactly as it had been. But I'd insist that one of the towers be exactly 229 feet, four inches shorter than the other. It's an uncomplicated gimmick to guarantee remembrance. Because, as long as these new towers would stand, someone unaware would ask, “why is one of them shorter than the other?” Whereupon an old-timer could explain, solemnly, that the difference between the heights of the towers is intentional - it's exactly 2,752 inches.

One inch for each of the victims.

It's all the memorial we really need.
MSNBC
  quote
The Return of the 'nut
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
 
2005-05-19, 15:33

Quote:
Sue Cohen: "I lost my twin brother John G. Chipura, a NYC Firefighter, on September 11, 2001 -- the day "most of the world cried." He was only 39 and six weeks from getting married. My sisters Eileen Cella and Nancy Chipura as well as my brother FDNY Lieutenant Gerard Chipura miss him so much, and think about him every day... (Governor Pataki) how could you put up that (Freedom Tower) and say this is in memory of those lost that day? They would want the towers back...

Elaine Eames: "We lost our son-in-law on Feb. 17, 2005 in Tal Afar Iraq. His name was Sgt. Frank B. Hernandez, Jr. and he was 21 years old. He died in that damn war for this country and all the people who died in the towers and the Pentagon. After 9/11 he gave up a college scholarship to go to war, he was on his second tour.... The only thing that should go in the gaping heart of America is the Twin Towers. I would build them exactly as they were, just one floor higher. It's the only way to get our country back to where we need to be. That Freedom Tower is just plain ugly and does not represent anything except someone's ego...it would be refreshing to have the people's wishes heard for once."

Sandra Bach: "I don't live in New York, I live in Chicago, but I would expect that the Twin Towers hold the same meaning for New Yorkers as the Hancock Building or the Sears Tower holds for Chicagoans. I know I wouldn't want some memorial skeleton to be built where my beloved Hancock Bldg. or Sears Tower once proudly stood - I would want them back. I feel for the people of New York and hope that their governor will see the way to what's right. We need to rebuild and it needs to start now. If we wait, they have won and all those people who died in the towers and in the war we currently fight, have died for nothing."

Philip Katz: "If we rebuild smaller it would only give the terrorists who wrought this destruction something to hold up as a trophy, the ability to say "look what we've done, altered for the worse one of the most recognizable skylines in the world." It would be a constant reminder of our failure to take this opportunity to make a statement of our own. The American people and especially New Yorkers, must take this opportunity to tell the terrorists of the world that although we've suffered a loss, we will not stand aside in fear."

J.Y. Brattan: "I can't believe that politicians aren't jumping at the idea of rebuilding the towers!! With one quick change of thought Governor Pataki could ensure his next re-election, or even use the successful rebuilding of the towers in a run for president!! Mayor Bloomberg could become a hero to the people of New York! The first one to publicly declare and fight for the towers would become a local hero to many. In a world with limited interest in the politicians that govern them, doesn't that sound like a political dream? Or am I missing something?"

Jack Purcell: "Every time I see a movie or pick up a picture of New York- there are the Twin Towers- a symbol of our nation, our pride, our engineering prowess. What has happened to this great nation? I say put the Twin Towers back up... This is America… the place where we're supposed to be able to take a punch, and then get right back up and come back stronger. The Twin Towers should go right back up where they were. Let's quit the crying and pick up a shovel."

Scott Schuckman: "We just can't let the terrorists succeed, and if we don't rebuild the towers that's exactly what they have accomplished, and those that perished on the fateful day will have died in vain. Just seeing the towers again in our lives would remind us daily of those we lost. I can not think of a greater way to honor someone than to never forget them."

Sam Ransom: "Twin Towers should be rebuilt. This would be the most fitting memorial to those that were lost on that tragic day, and a statement to the world of our resolve not to be intimidated by terrorists. I was born in Brooklyn, and was there when the original towers were built. The Pataki/Libeskind design should be tossed into the East River. To build that 'Freedom Tower' would be a colossal mistake."
Viewers emails to MSNBC
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2005-05-19, 16:59

Well, I suspect most of the polls you've stored away in the memory banks were taken from New Yorkers, but that's perfectly valid. Maybe Trump has no vested interest behind this. Maybe he stands not to gain one penny, but I would be amazed if that were the case. This guy can get plain old attention anytime he wants, so to me it seems suspect he's getting so close to this whole thing.

I want to reiterate something here too: I am not necessarily a proponent of the Freedom Tower per se. I do like some of the ground and below-ground-level memorials planned. I think there was a glass waterfall with names engraved on it. I really liked that. I think there needs to be a significant part of this that is more than just "big buildings", whatever those buildings may come to look like.

The empty skeleton thing seems to me to be a name used only by those who openly admit hating the existing plan. Now if you want to bash the principles behind all angular and translucent architectural techniques, OK. But let's be fair about it. Don't just say it sucks because it's not the design you want. Do I think there's better designs for the main tower? Yes, probably. But I like the concept of the rising spires as you look from the top of each new building to the next. And every floor doesn't have to be "people space" necessarily. Look at the Petronas towers.

As for Chicago, if they knocked the Sears Tower down, I can see how I would "want it back" as many in NY seem to want the WTC back... but I don't think I'd want it to be a replica. I really don't. Similar maybe, but not the same. You show respect for the old structure by not trying to duplicate it. At least by trying to improve on the visual design of it, you're adding something new to the mix something that will give the place its own character and history and not just "these look exactly like the originals". Because they'll never be the originals.

You can't go back....

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
.Hack
Valiant Vicks Vizier
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2005-05-19, 17:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by WBG4
Don't worry they'll probably never build anything there cause of all the BS that goes with getting these plans approved. I have always supported rebuilding the towers more or less as they were because i don't know i think that shows how strong you are
Well our President will probably ask for a multi-billion dollar grant to build the towers out of anti-terrorism materials to go along with our brand spanking new anti-terrorism equipment that he just bought. (I left out quotation marks for ya 'Nut, so you won't interpret me making a farce of something again. )
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2005-05-19, 20:22

Let's leave the President out of it. This is about New York first and foremost. Does anyone have the linkage to the competing proposals from before the Freedom Tower was selected?

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
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