[Wrao]

Last night my computer decided that it was going to play some prank on me, and I spent about 2 hours, force quitting, force rebooting, and waiting. I did back-up all my important files, just in case, and although my computer seems to be operating fine. Safari has completely broken. Yes. Safari will not open at all anymore, after it froze my computer 2 or 3 times. So I defaulted back to Firefox, which I never use, and Firefox crashed while trying to auto-update. Eventually, I managed to get firefox working, and tried to download Safari from Apple.com, then my internet connection dropped, mid download, and firefox crashed again. Regained my composure, tried again, got the file, unpacked it, and it says it cannot install on my Hard Drive because it needs 10.5.5 and the latest security updates. Of course, I am running 10.5.5 with the latest security updates, so I have no idea what the fuck it wants from me. But, since 10.5.6 just came out, I figure, now is a good time to update(I usually don't update immediately, like to see other users experiences, since there have been bugs in the past) So I check out software update, and it scans for new software, and the 10.5.6 update pops up. I check it and hit download. The download begins, then freezes, force quit... then firefox crashes. Try it one more time, after resetting both the router and the DSL modem. Again it craps out. At this point, I just say, fuck it, I will handle it tomorrow.

So, now it is tomorrow. I checked my computer, Safari is still broken, but Firefox is working. I connect to my router, full bars... no internet. Okay... I connect to the neighbors router that I can sometimes access. Gives me a couple of bars, but that's enough to get this message out, and hopefully, if it stays up, to download that software update.

I'm not exactly asking for input, I'm really just whining, because this has been an absolutely absurd sequence of events. My computer freezing left and right, Safari breaking, internet connection getting dropped all the time. Feh. Very annoying. Tentatively, though, I seem to be back on course, once this software update is installed, maybe I can get Safari working again, and it won't be junk.

[Wrao]

Cute. I downloaded and installed the system update, which enabled me to reinstall Safari. I clicked on the install package, it installed it, asked me to restart(why does it always ask you to restart now?) I restart the computer and.... Safari is nowhere to be found. The only copy of Safari on my machine is the broken copy, which, curiously, has decided to, instead of loading and then freezing, now it just bounces in the dock forever. This whole experience is perfectly windowsian. I am thoroughly fed up with my computer right now.

[curiousuburb]

Didn't you do the update voodoo dance first? (Did Brad remove it from our Genius Bar Sticky list?)

Always, always, always... wave the magic mojo backup stick, recite the RDF incantations, and genuflect in the direction of Cupertino before you begin.

Now go do the voodoo that you do so well. </HedlyLamaar>

[Dave]

Wow... Good luck fixing it. I'm stumped.

[Wrao]

Wonderful. Reinstalled Safari, this time the Application actually decided to show up, I click on it, bounce...bounce...bounce...bounce...pinwheel...bou nce...freeze...force quit....freeze....freeze....freeze.... finally quits.

If I have to reinstall the fucking operating system over this shit...

It is official. Leopard is a piece of shit. Not since the first versions of OS X have I had so many completely out of the blue, unexplained, slow-downs, freezes, hang-ups, reboots, force quits, and crashes as I have had with Leopard. I'm not even a power user. I barely do anything on this macbook. I only visit about 6 sites with any regularity, I don't download warez or anything like that, I don't download hacks or cracks or add-ons for anything, I regularly perform disk checks, it's all very run of the mill in this machine, except the mill is actually a pinwheel, and it hates me.

[Bryson]

Archive and install, baby. It's probably well overdue...

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Bryson Archive and install, baby. It's probably well overdue...

I reinstalled Leopard(thanks to a hard drive failure) about 4 months ago. How the fuck is that well overdue? What kind of operating system craps itself to shit after 4 months of light usage?

[Bryson]

Oh really? Well, then, you're right, Apple hates you...

You know - I had weirdness a while back and at the height of the weirdness, my HD crapped out. Diskwarrior was able to pull it back from the dead, but I had all sorts of odd slowdowns etc before it went horribly wrong. Worth checking before you reinstall again?

[Wrao]

Lovely. Computer just crashed while running disk utility. This Macbook has been simultaneously the best Apple computer I've owned and the worst. It's got amazing design, performance and the features are solid, but, for whatever reasons, I have been plagued with nearly every single conceivable problem that can possibly happen to a computer short of completely dying. I've had bad RAM, bad HD, broken iSight, broken dvd drive, cracked case, the OS has tanked before, the mouse clicker and hinge have started to go(this computer is less than 2 years old btw). I grew up using macs and outside of one other HD failure, have never experienced anything like this before. It's as if they made the computer out of polycarbonate and fail. It's a bummer, I only wish I had gotten the 3-year extended care warranty. See, I didn't even think to get it, because historically for me, Apple computers have never broken down, not like this. How was I supposed to know the MacBook(2nd revision even!) would trash out every few months it seems. Annoying and a bummer. Apple has one last chance in my book. If Snow Leopard doesn't seriously overhaul the performance and stability of OS X, I may very well get a PC notebook, at least then there'll be a support community for all this shit.

[Banana]

Ever considered the possibility that this may be a lemon? If it's under Applecare, I would get it checked out.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Banana Ever considered the possibility that this may be a lemon? If it's under Applecare, I would get it checked out.

It's not under applecare, I already shelled out $200 getting the HD replaced a few months ago. As I mentioned in my above post, the thought of getting Applecare didn't even really occur to me, because, of all of the macs I have owned and been around(Dozens) this type of shit has never happened. I am used to Apple computers Just Working™, so the 'investment' of Applecare just seemed like a waste of money. Honestly, I think the whole macbook line was a lemon in some way. Every single Macbook I know has had at least a cracked case. HD failures have been more common than I can remember with any other Apple model, broken iSights are not uncommon. A couple Logic boards fired. Clickers broke....etc.

[Wrao]

Disk Utility crashed again. This time not taking the computer with it. That makes me very nervous that the HD might be about to fail. I backed up all my important files last night. Will back up some more right now. If the HD does fail, that would be two HD failures within the span of 4 months. Which is, as they say. SOME OL BULLSHIT!

Also Firefox sucks.

[Maciej]

I'm sorry.

[MBHockey]

It does indeed sound like your HD is failing, Wrao. What is its SMART status?

Have you tried rebooting from your install disc and running a disk repair?

[Wrao]

SMART status is "verified". I will try running some more maintenance stuff in a little bit. For now, I just want to sit here and be glum.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Wrao What kind of operating system craps itself to shit after 4 months of light usage?

Is this multiple choice? Can we name more than one OS from Redmond?



Do you live on ley lines or do any high-energy research next to the MB?

[Wrao]

What's a Ley line? The only conceivable issue on that end is that, I have long suspected the power in this house to be... pretty crummy. I have most of my shit plugged into surge protectors, not the computer though(being a battery operated device, it didn't seem to be necessary) But again, a big reason why I use Apple is because I can't be buggered to know this stuff.

[Banana]

Um, for your information, I toasted two power supplies on my iMac and ruined many of Dell laptop AC adaptor before I realized that the house's wiring was teh suck and got a UPS which not only protect against surges but also against brownout (e.g. drop in current) that can be just as bad for any electronics.

[Wrao]

Good to know. I will keep the macbook plugged into the surge protector then. I have thought about getting a UPS before, might be worth it.

[Wrao]

Reinstalled OS X, Safari is working again. grumble.

[thegeriatric]

Wow. I can only offer tea, and sympathy.

[scratt]

Bryson makes a very good point.. Oh, and fsck the SMART status. I may ruffle some feathers here but SMART is crap in a bucket.

I have had it both completely pass an HD that is borked beyond belief, and also fail to report an HD as failing until the thing was basically a metal sandwich of platter dust. It certainly is not an early warning system. It's at best, a "confirmation that you are in the shitter" system. That is all.

The only occasion I have had problems similar to those you are describing was when my HD was failing.. and I can confirm that SMART *did not* pick it up...

If you start to get weird problems again in a rather short period of time.. Toss the HD, and go from there.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by scratt Bryson makes a very good point.. Oh, and fsck the SMART status. I may ruffle some feathers here but SMART is crap in a bucket.

Depends on which SMART you're talking about - the one in Disk Utility? Yeah, it's about as useful as tits on a boar.

There are other SMART-aware utilities that provide much more detailed info, which can be useful.

[scratt]

Actually I was referring to SMART period.

Having had an average amount of HD failures in a reasonably long career of computer use I can honestly say that SMART has not saved me once, and has in some cases even prolonged my agony by not reporting anything..... until it was so obvious the HD had failed I would need to be of an amoeba's average intellect to miss it.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by scratt Actually I was referring to SMART period. Having had an average amount of HD failures in a reasonably long career of computer use I can honestly say that SMART has not saved me once, and has in some cases even prolonged my agony by not reporting anything..... until it was so obvious the HD had failed I would need to be of an amoeba's average intellect to miss it.

So how long did it take you?

I keed, I keed...

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Kickaha So how long did it take you?

*sigh*

It's a very good point actually.. On one occasion I actually re-installed OS X twice before finally giving up and buying a new HD... I still have the old HD, and for kicks* I power it up from time to time.. and even now SMART will often report that everything is fine and dandy!


* Actually because I sometimes wonder if the odd lost file is on it, or has been put back by fairies!

[solstace]

I'd suggest OS and Application-level freezes look uncannily like a bad HD. My iMac G4 has gone the same way after having flawlessly run Leopard (and all its updates) for the last year or so.

Wow, has Leopard been out that long?

And yes, I think SMART is rubbish as a pre-warning system, unless you know what to look for. Even then it's kinda like a BBC weather forecast. You can see what it's doing right now and use that to make some predictions... but don't rely on them without making some backup plans!

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Wrao It is official. Leopard is a piece of shit. Not since the first versions of OS X have I had so many completely out of the blue, unexplained, slow-downs, freezes, hang-ups, reboots, force quits, and crashes as I have had with Leopard.

That's basically what drove me to Windows. I haven't had to reinstall since I got my PC almost a year ago. In fact, I haven't had a single major problem with this computer at all.

I can't speak for others, but for me, Vista has been a lot faster and more stable than OS X. Especially so for Leopard. Obviously, it helps that I'm running hugely faster hardware than I had with my Mac, but it's also a homebrew PC so you wouldn't expect it to be more reliable. Yet it has been. The only BSODs I've gotten were when I overclocked too much.

[Kickaha]

How... odd. I have Leopard on three machines spanning a good length of time (PowerBook G4 2002, MacBook (Intel) 2006, MacBook Pro 2007), and all have been rock-solid and spiffy.

The only KPs I've seen at all have been with a buggy 3rd party VPN driver that got ditched as soon as I could.

Safari has been the biggest crasher, and even there it's maybe twice a month.

Slow-downs? Uh, no? When RAM is tight on the MacBook (1GB baby!), I quit Safari, then restart it, and that usually opens up a good 25% of it, and I'm back to Teh Snappy(tm).

What do you guys *do* to your poor machines??

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Kickaha How... odd. I have Leopard on three machines spanning a good length of time (PowerBook G4 2002, MacBook (Intel) 2006, MacBook Pro 2007), and all have been rock-solid and spiffy. [..] What do you guys *do* to your poor machines??

Yeah, I have three machines running Leopard (one PPC, two Intel) with no trouble at all. I have several coworkers running Leopard that, to the best of my knowledge, are also running well.

With every release of Mac OS X, different people go shouting "worse release ever!" and somehow my machines all manage to keep running smoothly.



I don't think I'm doing anything out of the ordinary to keep my systems running sanely.