[psmith2.0]

Did I miss this? I ask because I'm not seeing it mentioned anywhere (none of the usual Mac news/rumor sites, or here, and goodness knows I'm never "FIRST!" on this sort of thing ).

Anyway, I had restarted my iMac (I'd shut it down and unplugged it completely because of a huge storm system that tore through early this morning and I just didn't want the damn thing connected...you wouldn't either). I docked my iPhone to recharge a bit and got the "new iTunes 8.2.1 available" message.

For the record, here's what the update is all about:

iTunes 8.2 now supports iPhone or iPod touch with the iPhone 3.0 Software Update. iTunes 8.2 also includes many accessibility improvements and bug fixes. iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple devices.

This is funny because just yesterday, on two occasions (for the first time in probably 18 or so months), iTunes could not find or "recognize" my iPhone. Kept giving me an error upon docking.



Funny timing. I got it to work last night, BTW, but through nothing I did. I just stuck it in the dock and iTunes recognized it. Just one of those random, no-rhyme-or-reason "gremlins" that spring up every now and then to remind us we're all human and at the mercy of all this crap.



Weird. Then today's update comes along, dealing with the exact problem I was having not 24 hours ago.

[SpecMode]

I'm fairly sure, and the Apple-following press is trumpeting it rather loudly, that the "verification of Apple devices" line specifically means "verification that you're not using a Palm Pré, or something else pretending to be an iPod or iPhone". The failure to recognize an actual iPod or iPhone probably falls under the bug fixes category.

[psmith2.0]

Ah, okay. I didn't know.

In any case, my stuff is working again. Reliably.

[joveblue]

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._download.html

Apple's iTunes 8.2.1 update kills sync with Palm Pre Apple released an incremental update to its iTunes software Wednesday afternoon, nixing the Palm Pre's ability to sync with the application.

In other news, AppleInsider is currently running an extremely annoying Hannah Montana ad, with audio. They can go fuck themselves.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by joveblue In other news, AppleInsider is currently running an extremely annoying Hannah Montana ad, with audio. They can go fuck themselves.

This is why I love Ad Block Plus so much. Makes me sad when I have to use Safari and get bombarded with ads I never see when using FireFox.

[kieran]

I just wish that the release notes stated something specifically targeted towards Palm.

That would have been awesome.

Palm had to know this was coming though, so I'm sure they're working on something.

[Robo]

First comment about this at Engadget (even before "First!"):

"Nazis!"

Then a bunch of people complained about the Apple fanboys that would inevitably show up to defend the company (but didn't) and then they all said that Apple had a monopoly on music. Yes, how dare Apple make a change to their own software to prevent a third-party device from falsely claiming to be one of their own!

DRM-free songs are still DRM-free, and you can still play them on the Pre. Apple just doesn't anything else Pre-tending to be an iPod.

[tsa]

I installed the new iTunes and now it always quits when I start it up with an 'unknow error (13014)' I searched the web for this error but I am none the wiser. Does anyone have any idea? I'm on a first generation MBP with 10.5.7 on it. My music library is on a network drive, which I mount using SMB. This always worked well, until version 8.2.1 came out.

[FFL]

Originally Posted by kieran I just wish that the release notes stated something specifically targeted towards Palm. That would have been awesome. Palm had to know this was coming though, so I'm sure they're working on something.

Real-world release notes:

Dear Palm,

EAT IT!

Sincerely,
Apple, Inc.

[kieran]

I would have loved that.

Simple and to the point.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend This is why I love Ad Block Plus so much. Makes me sad when I have to use Safari and get bombarded with ads I never see when using FireFox.

Wait, you use an blocker in FF but not Safari? Safari AdBlock uses the same subscription mechanism as ABP. Been using it for ages and it continues to work flawlessly.

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by kieran I just wish that the release notes stated something specifically targeted towards Palm.

Not in the release notes, but:

Originally Posted by Daring Fireball Apple spokeswoman Natalie Kerris, in a statement to BusinessWeek’s Arik Hesseldahl: “iTunes 8.2.1 is a free software update that provides a number of important bug fixes. It also disables devices falsely pretending to be iPods, including the Palm Pre. As we’ve said before, newer versions of Apple’s iTunes software may no longer provide syncing functionality with unsupported digital media players.” You can’t accuse them of being coy about it.

Heheheh.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by tsa I installed the new iTunes and now it always quits when I start it up with an 'unknow error (13014)' I searched the web for this error but I am none the wiser. Does anyone have any idea? I'm on a first generation MBP with 10.5.7 on it. My music library is on a network drive, which I mount using SMB. This always worked well, until version 8.2.1 came out.

I did everything I could find on the Web to remedy my problem, to no avail. I want to return to the older version, but I can't find iTunes 8.2.0 anywhere. Maybe you can provide me with a link to the previous version of iTunes?

[nikstar101]

Clearly i am the only person who is actually a little sad to see this. I don't won a Palm Pre, in fact i own an iPhone, but i would like to see iTunes with in-built to support for syncing to other devices. Or at the very least Apple should have a developer programme to allow licenced devices to sync.

I know that its Apple's software and hardware but with DRM free music it think they should also get rid of the restrictions on syncing.

[Paranoid666au]

Or Palm could make their own music store instead of being lazy.

[nikstar101]

And everyone copuld make there own applications proprietry and everyone would be locked on an investment. I mean what happens if MS went back and said no one could use the .doc format other than in MS porgrammes?? Thats rubbish.

Or maybe emails sent in Apple Mail should only be able to be read by someone who has Apple Mail? In a day and age where Apple is pushing DRM free music but locking down its music (and complaining about greeedy music companies) its a bit sad to see them do the same thing.

What about those people using Macs but have a Pre? Why should they be forced to use a Palm programme instead of iTunes? Just seems stupid. Clearly there is a syncing mechanism, why can't Apple licence it?

[Miko]

There's a fault in that logic. Microsoft's .doc format is designed to work with the Word application on Macs and PCs. Now you can convert it and open it in other formats, but to get the complete features set you need to use Word.

No doubt Apple put a lot of R&D into iTunes and it's synching features. I've said it before anyone who thinks the iPod/Phone + iTunes is not a closed system needs to think again, it's even stated like that on Apple's website.

The two are married to each other by design for apple to provide that level for all portable devices is not gonna happen because they would not be able to assure that the synching will work that same on all devices. It's a triple threat and one that has lead to Apple's dominance in the market they will not change that model anytime soon IMO.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Clearly i am the only person who is actually a little sad to see this. I don't won a Palm Pre, in fact i own an iPhone, but i would like to see iTunes with in-built to support for syncing to other devices. Or at the very least Apple should have a developer programme to allow licenced devices to sync. I know that its Apple's software and hardware but with DRM free music it think they should also get rid of the restrictions on syncing.

No, you aren't the only person sad to see this. You don't see Windows Media Player only working with Zunes, for example. You would think Apple would want to encourage iTunes use. After all, since you're already using the program, maybe you'll buy from their built-in store too.

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by Miko The two are married to each other by design for apple to provide that level for all portable devices is not gonna happen because they would not be able to assure that the synching will work that same on all devices. It's a triple threat and one that has lead to Apple's dominance in the market they will not change that model anytime soon IMO.

But Apple can side step that issue, by having a plugin system that companies like Palm have to use. Therefore the development of the plugin is done by Palm (so they take the risk of it working etc).

[Miko]

Yeah then you would get into licensing the use of the plugin which Apple is not keen on, they will leave that to 3rd party developers.

Apple does what's best for them I think they are still a little sensitive about how the OS battle was won in the 80's so this has led to their very very protective stance on all things Apple.

I'm in agreement that opening syncing up to other devices would be a good thing, just don't see Apple incorporating it anytime soon. good or bad they are enjoying a 60+% market run right now that speaks volumes.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Clearly i am the only person who is actually a little sad to see this. I don't won a Palm Pre, in fact i own an iPhone, but i would like to see iTunes with in-built to support for syncing to other devices. Or at the very least Apple should have a developer programme to allow licenced devices to sync.

Keep in mind that iTunes is subsidized through iPods. It was originally part of Mac OS X (and later of iLife), but, starting with iLife '09, is entirely considered its own thing (and its Windows version always has been). So, realistically, Apple would probably only accept an offer that gets them a part of Pre revenues.

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend No, you aren't the only person sad to see this. You don't see Windows Media Player only working with Zunes, for example. You would think Apple would want to encourage iTunes use. After all, since you're already using the program, maybe you'll buy from their built-in store too.

The Store isn't (primarily) what makes Apple money.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I know the store doesn't net Apple much $$, but it does give Apple power with the record industry.

[Trumpetman]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Clearly i am the only person who is actually a little sad to see this. I don't won a Palm Pre, in fact i own an iPhone, but i would like to see iTunes with in-built to support for syncing to other devices. Or at the very least Apple should have a developer programme to allow licenced devices to sync. I know that its Apple's software and hardware but with DRM free music it think they should also get rid of the restrictions on syncing.

I'm sad to see it as well. Apple should not be evil. iTunes was originally SoundJam which had plug-ins for multiple MP3 devices. If Microsoft were doing this to Apple instead of Apple doing it to Palm everyone in here would be screaming bloody murder.

Originally Posted by Paranoid666au Or Palm could make their own music store instead of being lazy.

Palm has made the Amazon music store available on the Pre. Palm is in no form trying to steal sales. However the point of DRM free music is to use it on any device you choose.

Originally Posted by nikstar101 And everyone copuld make there own applications proprietry and everyone would be locked on an investment. I mean what happens if MS went back and said no one could use the .doc format other than in MS porgrammes?? Thats rubbish. Or maybe emails sent in Apple Mail should only be able to be read by someone who has Apple Mail? In a day and age where Apple is pushing DRM free music but locking down its music (and complaining about greeedy music companies) its a bit sad to see them do the same thing. What about those people using Macs but have a Pre? Why should they be forced to use a Palm programme instead of iTunes? Just seems stupid. Clearly there is a syncing mechanism, why can't Apple licence it?

Also it isn't like the tracks are just there in a form that can easily be grabbed by another program and used. With all the iApps everything is basically shoved into a database type model where it becomes very hard to interact with the original data.

Originally Posted by chucker Keep in mind that iTunes is subsidized through iPods. It was originally part of Mac OS X (and later of iLife), but, starting with iLife '09, is entirely considered its own thing (and its Windows version always has been). So, realistically, Apple would probably only accept an offer that gets them a part of Pre revenues. The Store isn't (primarily) what makes Apple money.

ITunes makes money for Apple and needs no subsidy. If anything the reverse is true because Apple can essentually break even on their store while profiting on iPod whereas everyone else who does a store actually needs to turn a profit on it.

This is not cool on the part of Apple.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Trumpetman I'm sad to see it as well. Apple should not be evil. iTunes was originally SoundJam which had plug-ins for multiple MP3 devices.

That API still exists. Either Apple doesn't hand out licenses any more, or nobody has requested one since about 2001.

If Microsoft were doing this to Apple instead of Apple doing it to Palm everyone in here would be screaming bloody murder.

Can I use a Zune with a Mac? Can I use an iPod with Windows Media Player? Can I use any non-Zune device with the Zune software (which isn't Windows Media Player)?

Palm has made the Amazon music store available on the Pre. Palm is in no form trying to steal sales. However the point of DRM free music is to use it on any device you choose.

There's much more to DRM-free than that, but that's certainly one benefit.

Also it isn't like the tracks are just there in a form that can easily be grabbed by another program and used. With all the iApps everything is basically shoved into a database type model where it becomes very hard to interact with the original data.

Not only are the files all there out in the open in a nicely structured hierarchy; the database also comes with an easy-to-parse (and parsed by many third party apps) XML export next to it. Everything but hard to interact with.

ITunes makes money for Apple and needs no subsidy.

That makes no sense at all. How does something gratis make money without a subsidy?

If anything the reverse is true because Apple can essentually break even on their store while profiting on iPod whereas everyone else who does a store actually needs to turn a profit on it.

So, they don't need a subsidy because their subsidy works well?

[Robo]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend No, you aren't the only person sad to see this. You don't see Windows Media Player only working with Zunes, for example.

No, but you do see Zune software only working with Zunes!

Windows Media Player doesn't have a built-in store, so I'm not sure it's a valid comparison. (And even if it was, just because Microsoft does it one way doesn't mean everybody else should do it the same way.)

The thing is, the iTunes Store isn't locked down to just iPods. The songs are DRM-free and you can put them onto anything. Making the Pre "pretend" to be an iPod didn't really do anything, other than make it a bit easier for Pre owners (and possibly making it look like Apple was endorsing the Pre).

Let's be real - if Palm hadn't tried some crazy work-around to make the Pre sync with iTunes like an iPod, we wouldn't even be discussing how "closed" it was now. Because it's not unusually closed. It's probably more "open" than the Zune software, in that it's at least multiplatform.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Roboman Windows Media Player doesn't have a built-in store, so I'm not sure it's a valid comparison.

I don't know if it still does, but actually, it used to ship with support for multiple stores. Which sounds great ("choices!") but usually causes users to make no choice at all.

Let's be real - if Palm hadn't tried some crazy work-around to make the Pre sync with iTunes like an iPod, we wouldn't even be discussing how "closed" it was now. Because it's not unusually closed. It's probably more "open" than the Zune software, in that it's at least multiplatform.

But if Mac OS X were the dominant operating system, Apple likely wouldn't make iTunes for Windows.

[Miko]

Originally Posted by Roboman The thing is, the iTunes Store isn't locked down to just iPods. The songs are DRM-free and you can put them onto anything. Making the Pre "pretend" to be an iPod didn't really do anything, other than make it a bit easier for Pre owners (and possibly making it look like Apple was endorsing the Pre).

Well put, the syncing is a highlight feature exclusively for the iPod/Phone. iTunes runs on both Macs and PCs the songs are DRM free so play on whatever device you own, so you miss out on syncing oh well 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

I'm sure Palm didn't help their case by using a hack to sync the Pre with iTunes. That is just silly and to be honest I don't see how the execs at Palm could sit at a table and say you know what Apple won't let us sync natively thru iTunes so let's create a hack. I know it will be exposed as a hack, but oh well it will make us look cool to be disguised as an iPod too. Why couldn't they develop their own syncing tool like the 3rd parties and have a somewhat simple way of getting the music from the lib onto the Pre.

Was it really worth it Palm?

[Trumpetman]

Originally Posted by chucker That API still exists. Either Apple doesn't hand out licenses any more, or nobody has requested one since about 2001.

So they were open until they didn't need to be?

Can I use a Zune with a Mac? Can I use an iPod with Windows Media Player? Can I use any non-Zune device with the Zune software (which isn't Windows Media Player)?

Yes and everyone agrees that Microsoft is terrible and should not be emulated. Zune works exclusively with Microsoft products and Apple is declaring their intent to do the same.

There's much more to DRM-free than that, but that's certainly one benefit.

A benefit you can't claim isn't much of a benefit.

Not only are the files all there out in the open in a nicely structured hierarchy; the database also comes with an easy-to-parse (and parsed by many third party apps) XML export next to it. Everything but hard to interact with.

Yes and you are talking about a country where we needed three extra months to make sure people could hook a box between their television and their antenna to get programming on top of already having 10 years of delays. You are talking about a the majority of people who cannot program their universal remote and operate technology on only the most basic level. Apple is supposed to be the solution to this, not the cause. I fully understand that guys like US can get around it. Most of the people we've recommended Apple products to for ease of use likely cannot.

That makes no sense at all. How does something gratis make money without a subsidy? So, they don't need a subsidy because their subsidy works well?

They make a percentage of sales on music, media and iPhone apps. It mostly covers just the infrastructure and data costs, and quarterly reports often note a very small profit, something like $100-150 million on sales. The last article I read on it put it at something like $600 million in profit for the year and it was on $2 billion in revenue. So the profit margin is very small, especially compared to the 30% they rake in on hardware but the point is iTunes does not operate at a loss.

People complain that Palm is doing something wrong here but in my view they are acting right. iTunes has evolved over time and Palm is not trying to take revenue nor making available other forms of data beyond music. iTunes was first and foremost about being able to organize your music for your MP3 player. Lots of music resides in these libraries from before Apple or Palm thought of their respective phones. Most laypersons are not going to be savvy enough to get it out for use in other devices. Palm offers alernatives for going forward, but people shouldn't be deprived for the past.

This was compared to someone hacking the doc format from Microsoft. We know Apple created Pages as an example an included Word compatibility. This is no different. If Microsoft released a "bug fix" that specifically looked at documents created in Pages but saved in doc format and made them impossible to open in Word, you know every single person in here would be lambasting them. People sell add on's for Mac, Windows, Office, you name it. If Apple were to go forward and broke compatibility due to improvements in iTunes, that would be on Palm to fix, just as it would be on Apple to fix with Pages and doc compatibility. However this is much different. This is targeting a competitor maliciously and that is anti-competitive which exactly what Microsoft does.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by chucker I don't know if it still does, but actually, it used to ship with support for multiple stores. Which sounds great ("choices!") but usually causes users to make no choice at all.

I'm just going by what I see in WMP on my netbook (which, incidentally, I just opened for the first time ). I knew that there were stores that gave you WMP files (that MTV "Urge" thing?) but I didn't know that there was actually, like, a WMP store inside of WMP. If there is, I can't find it. (Oh, and guess what popped up while I was browsing the "Windows Media Guide"? A weird, cryptic error message! It's like we were just talking about that or something. )

Originally Posted by chucker But if Mac OS X were the dominant operating system, Apple likely wouldn't make iTunes for Windows.

That's probably true. But if OS X were the dominant operating system, everything would be so totally different - there might not even be iTunes - so nyah.

[PKIDelirium]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 What about those people using Macs but have a Pre? Why should they be forced to use a Palm programme instead of iTunes? Just seems stupid. Clearly there is a syncing mechanism, why can't Apple licence it?

Palm didn't try to license it, they just hacked it.

Originally Posted by Trumpetman This is targeting a competitor maliciously and that is anti-competitive which exactly what Microsoft does.

It's malicious to shut down syncing with an unauthorized device, that basically hacked its way in by spoofing as an iPod? Palm was in the wrong here, not Apple.