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Language learning service/app advice.


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Language learning service/app advice.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-07-22, 13:16

Thinking about learning another language in the in-between times while I'm working and not having to pay attention to on-screen audio. Something to fill the time while in Illustrator or Photoshop or whatever.

I looked at the Dummies series, and that looked alright. The 6-in-1 product seemed decent, what with the audio bits and a bunch of reading material. I can do that. Then I looked at Rosetta Stone and DuoLingo and Babbel and got a little overwhelmed with the options.

So here I am.

Anyone here have any first or secondhand experience with any of these services? Preferably something I can just stick in my ears and go, but I don't mind if some of it's written, I read in bed for at least a couple hours every night and I'm good at tests.

Thanks in advance!


(I'm really looking to be somewhat conversationally literate, and just textually fluent enough to read menus and shop signs.)

So it goes.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-07-22, 20:09

DuoLingo seems popular these days.

As someone who’s not a native English speaker, my advice is that practice is the cherry on top. Talk to native speakers, travel to their country, watch their TV… this adds a whole level to your command.

As for the basics, I can’t really help. I learnt two foreign languages (compulsory) in school.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-22, 22:57

I haven't used any of these services myself, but several years ago my wife went through the Japanese version of Rosetta Stone. It seemed to be a pretty good introduction, and it's method of teaching was unexpected (to me, at least): total immersion with only pictures and spoken audio of the foreign language. English was used sparingly in the UI, hidden away until necessary.

We also paid for her to take classes at the local university for several semesters, and she's continued lots of self-driven study on her own.

The best advice I could give as a bystander watching her go from nothing to having excellent conversational and written skills is exactly what chucker said: find many other ways to immerse yourself in the language. Aside from the study materials and apps themselves, seek out music in that language, TV shows, movies, comics — just about anything you can get put in your ears and eyes. Netflix has a surprising (again, to a filthy gaijin like me) amount of content in non-English languages both as their primary source and as alternate audio tracks for English-origin content. As you pick up the basics, your local public library system may also be indispensable. Don't be shy to browse and pick up children's books, picture dictionaries, and other light reading materials intended for young audiences. Think Dr. Seuss-level material. Learn like a child because, for all intents and purposes, you are a child in this space.

Finding social groups for language-learners or led by native speakers can keep things interesting and provide new perspectives and challenges too. MeetUp.com is a good place to start for that, but beware that many of these groups are littered with slackers who just want to hang out and talk about the language/culture without actually doing the work of learning and practicing it.

Another good (and free!) option is going total-immersion on your computer and/or phone. All this software we have is filled with written language, and although much of it is very technical and context-specific, it's an excellent resource nonetheless. Flip the settings for a few minutes or hours, maybe look up the definitions of some frequently-used commands, and try to use things or just expose yourself to the new vocabulary. If you've never done it in macOS, it's super easy. Go to System Preferences: Language & Region: Preferred Languages. You can add to the list and arrange languages in your priority order (highest at top). macOS will automatically keep going down the list until it finds a language that works. Say you put "French" at the top but some third-party app doesn't support French? That app's presentation will automatically fall back to English or whatever is next in line. You might be surprised how many apps you use every day are already localized for lots of languages.

If you have nearby family, friends, or roommates, try to get them to play along with some common household phrases. Even though my wife is the one doing all the real studying, it's been impossible for me not to pick up some words and phrases and use them myself. I'll say "tadaima!" when I return home, "itadakimasu!" before having a meal, "kanpai!" when clinking glasses, and a few more. I know a bunch of animal names from a couple kids poems/songs. That's probably about it.

As for my own foreign language background, I learned a lot of conversational Spanish in primary school (also compulsory), but I haven't seriously tried to retain that knowledge for the last 20 years. I can still pick out phrases, words, and roots I hear from Spanish radio or TV, and I can still string together a few sentences that make me sound a lot more fluent than I really am, but the vast majority of my knowledge has been lost to time.

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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-07-23, 07:28

These are great suggestions – thank you! I had thought about he Netflix/TV thing, it would be perfect to just have playing in a window or on the iPad as I'm chopping veggies. Probably ease in with the subtitles on for a while.

The mingling with native speakers thing may be more of a problem time-wise, but if it's a night class or something I could swing it. And the kid's books idea is brilliant! Could be a lot of fun too.

Kinda excited about stretching my brain in a new area... I've been feeling in somewhat of a rut lately and this just might be the bump I need. Thanks for the tips guys!

So it goes.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-23, 12:34

The class my wife was taking was a night class, and they met either once every week or every two weeks. I would bet there are options like that nearby.

If you don't mind sharing, what language is it that you're interested in learning?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-07-23, 12:43

I'm going to start with Spanish since I have a little working knowledge already and figured it would be the easiest. I'm hoping I have an aptitude for learning this sort of thing because I'd like to be at least travel-comfortable with a few.

So it goes.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-23, 13:29

Nice! Spanish should indeed be one of the easier (relatively) languages to pick up, and there are tons of material for listening/reading. It's very regular compared to English, both in grammar and pronunciation, and since it's a romance language, a lot of the roots and etymologies will probably be at least somewhat familiar or may occasionally spark these glorious "aha!" moments when you figure out how things are related.

¡Buena suerte!

Oh yeah! It's also super easy on a mac keyboard to type the common diacritical marks and the "flipped" punctuation often used in Spanish. ¡ and ¿ are just option-1 and option-shift-/. Need to stack an ´ (acute) or ˜ (tilde) onto a letter? Option-e or option-n followed by the letter that needs it.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-07-23, 15:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
It's very regular compared to English, both in grammar and pronunciation, and since it's a romance language, a lot of the roots and etymologies will probably be at least somewhat familiar ...
Yeah, I figure if I get the hang of it and feel comfortable then maybe I can ease on into Portuguese and Italian, maybe French since I have a bit of groundwork laid there too (well, Parisian, which may not be helpful at all ).

So it goes.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2019-07-24, 09:07

Dora the Explorer will teach you all the Spanish you need to know.

I will say that if you travel you'll be amazed at how little of the foreign language you need. You really do pick up things while you're there and some gestures and body language it universal. I'd normally only get about 2 days in a foreign port and still manage to be able to really navigate the place. Need a bathroom, ask someone if they speak English. If they say know but seem nice, say "bathroom" and act like you're pulling your pants down. They will point you the way.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-24, 10:10

TIL that turtle likes to get schwifty when he travels the world.

  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-07-24, 10:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
If they say know but seem nice, say "bathroom" and act like you're pulling your pants down. They will point you the way.
This went places I didn't expect.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2019-07-24, 12:13



I meant like you're taking a dump. Everyone all over the world knows that motion. Even in places that literally only have a hole in the floor as the "toilet" with a garden hose on the wall for you to rinse when you're done. (Also, always take your own toilet paper. )

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-24, 13:26

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...get%20schwifty

Quote:
get schwifty

The name of a song performed by Rick Sanchez and Morty Smith in attempt to show "what earth has got," to please the Giant head (Cromulons native to the Signus-5 expanse), so that it can stop climate change and go away.

Getting Schwifty appears to be made up by Rick Sanchez but is believed to involve taking off your paints or panties and shitting on the floor.

"Aww yea, it's time to get Schwifty!"
"Take of your paints and your panties, shit on the floor, its time to get Schwifty in here."
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2019-07-24, 13:26



I should have looked that up!
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-24, 13:52

Sheesh. Just when we were trying to clean the joint up, someone takes a dump on the floor!

But, to keep things on topic,

Sheesh ¡Justo cuando estábamos tratando de limpiar la junta, alguien tira un basurero en el piso!


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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-24, 14:47

Quote:
tira un basurero
My conversational Spanish is only a couple decades rusty, especially with idiomatic phrases, but this feels too literal. Would plain old "cagó" work here?
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-24, 15:19

Hell if I know. I just dumped the phrase into Google Translate. I speak exactly 1 language.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-07-24, 16:33

Das kann ja jeder sagen.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-24, 17:34

Auf Deutsch? Zer güt!

I didn't have to look that one up. I took 2 years of German in high school. Which was, like, a million years ago. So it may not even be correct.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-07-24, 17:34

Merde.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-07-24, 23:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Auf Deutsch? Zer güt!

I didn't have to look that one up. I took 2 years of German in high school. Which was, like, a million years ago. So it may not even be correct.
It’s… it’s not.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-24, 23:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
It’s… it’s not.


No surprise there. It's only been 32 years ago.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2019-07-25, 09:15

MacHeist has a deal for Rosetta Stone right now, Spanish even!
  quote
PKIDelirium
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2019-07-26, 01:23

That's still hella expensive, typical for anything on Rosetta Stone.
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