User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Speculation and Rumors »

Apple's Two Year Odyssey


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Apple's Two Year Odyssey
Page 1 of 5 [1] 2 3 4 5  Next Thread Tools
Snoopy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2005-06-11, 10:23

During the next two years, Apple will depend on PPC hardware to provide a large share of it's revenue. If enough folks put off buying Macs and wait for Intel models to arrive, Apple could be in for a rough journey. From what I've been reading, some are unwilling to buy because they see PPC Macs as already obsolete, losing its usefulness and value too quickly. Others are willing to buy a PPC Mac now, but expect bargain basement prices before they part with their cash. If you want examples of such opinions, here is a link.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...e_sales_chill/

There are debates on just how many feel too uneasy to buy a PPC Mac just now, but there are at least a few of us around. What would be very interesting is to hear from those of you who have concerns about getting a PPC Mac. The question is, "what would it take to get you to feel okay about buying now?" Is there anything Apple could do to convince you? It's not a pole, so there is no need for those who don't need convincing to reply.

I'll prime the pump by giving my view. Apple just needs to give me a long enough commitment on supporting today's PPC Macs with new versions of OS X and other Apple software.
  quote
sunrain
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portlandia
 
2005-06-11, 10:34

I'd have no problem buying anything PPC right now if I needed it. At the *absolute* least Apple would have to support the very last PPC computer they sold for three years (because of AppleCare). So, if the transition ends in 2007 from PPC to Intel chips then anyone could reasonably expect that the very minimum we'll have *active* PPC support would be into 2010. Even after 2010, the universal binaries will be, um, universal by then, and should carry any PPC Mac into a ripe old age.

If you need to buy a Mac, do it.

"What a computer is to me is it's the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with, and it's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds."
- Steve Jobs

Last edited by sunrain : 2005-06-11 at 10:47. Reason: clarification
  quote
Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-11, 10:34

Well, they did that. Jobs specifically stated that they will be supporting PPC for the next few years.

So I guess you're all comfy with buying a PPC Mac now?

Honestly, I don't get why people are freaking out. It makes not one bit of difference to the average consumer, but they're getting their panties in a bunch due to ignorance, and spouting all sorts of inane proclamations. Annoying.
  quote
dviant
Lord of the Spoiler
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lost
 
2005-06-11, 10:41

People are overreacting about it. PPC is not "obsolete" in any real sense of the word. PPC machines will not self-destruct once the transition to Intel is complete. Intel-based Macs will be the minority for quite some time after the transition. Therefore it's not in Apples or developers best intrest to discontinue support for PPC for a good long time. Apple has PPC and Intel versions of OS X in parity secretely for the last 5 years (maybe longer) when there wasn't even a consumer Intel model out there. With the millions of PPC machines in the market (i.e. everyone at this point) why in the world would they quit now or anytime soon. Universal binaries will be a defacto standard for apps so they'll "just work".

As for the current machines sucking, that's a matter of opinion. They don't suck any more since the Intel announcment. People cancelling purchases because of this are giving in to silly illogical knee jerk reactions. The current line is still as good/adequate (depending on your standards) as always... Apples concern wasn't so much with todays tech as the roadmap a few years from now.

Even with the Powerbook arguably being the weak link in their lineup currently I am STILL going to buy a new one sometime this year. Then a couple years from now when I can afford a faster one with "Intel Inside" I'll buy that. OS X will still be OS X whether I'm using PPC or Intel.

Shhhh, I can't see!
  quote
DrGruv
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-06-11, 10:42

here is post i did on osxaudio

you know...

maybe the next rev. of ppc is best for the audio people. that way your good for a few years, until intel mac gets the bugs worked out and the plugs ported over - what? about two years? meanwhile your cookin' on the ppc with little or no issues, then three years or so out make the switch.

- Michael Droste Itunes Link Stop By: TrumpetStudio.com or SaveThePlanetSong.org Some Main Gear: AT4050, Dual 1.8 G4, Logic, Waves Plat, Waves SSL, Tritone, URS, PSP, Zebra, BFD, RND, Sony Oxford, Altiverb...
  quote
Snoopy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2005-06-11, 10:55

Well, I guess I would need a commitment to at least 2012. I keep my Macs a long time. I still have a beige G3 in the office here. I am now holding off my purchase of a Mac mini to replace it.
  quote
Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-11, 11:09

And I still have a B/W G3 that does daily service as a server, but haven't had any reason to upgrade it to 10.4 yet. Not yet seeing your point... I mean, are you running 10.4.2 on that beige G3?

If you're running anything higher than 10.0, you realize you're already into unsupported land, and this is all a moot argument you're making, *right*?

Yes, I'm slightly snarky about this - being nice and polyanna while explaining in various forums just got me flamed for drinking the kool-aid, so I'm trying the snarly approach. :P
  quote
Snoopy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2005-06-11, 11:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
And I still have a B/W G3 that does daily service as a server, but haven't had any reason to upgrade it to 10.4 yet. Not yet seeing your point... I mean, are you running 10.4.2 on that beige G3?

If you're running anything higher than 10.0, you realize you're already into unsupported land, and this is all a moot argument you're making, *right*?

Yes, I'm slightly snarky about this - being nice and polyanna while explaining in various forums just got me flamed for drinking the kool-aid, so I'm trying the snarly approach. :P
That's okay. Snarl away.

I'm running 10.2, which is supported, but thinking of going to 10.3 soon because some software will not run on 10.2. There is no assurance that we will luck out and be able to go beyond what Apple supports in the future.
  quote
Chris Keele
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Boston
 
2005-06-11, 11:53

Someone please tell me that when Apple switches to Intel, there WON'T be any of those GD "Intel *" stickers on the computers (especially ibook/powerbook). One thing I love about Macs is that they are not advertisements for each little component (like when you buy a non-Apple laptop and they have 4 stickers on them that you can't take off).
Apple please keep your cleanliness!
  quote
JK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2005-06-11, 12:18

I think people are looking at this the wrong way.....
YES, there is a group of people that will hold off their purchases to wait for the Intel models, however there is also a group of people that has been waiting until the WWDC passed to either upgrade or switch to a new machine. I know I am one, the night of June 6th I placed my order for a 15 inch Powerbook which should be delivered by next week.....
  quote
Noel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
 
2005-06-11, 12:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Keele
Someone please tell me that when Apple switches to Intel, there WON'T be any of those GD "Intel *" stickers on the computers (especially ibook/powerbook). One thing I love about Macs is that they are not advertisements for each little component (like when you buy a non-Apple laptop and they have 4 stickers on them that you can't take off).
Apple please keep your cleanliness!
Get real. You think Steve "Aesthetic Control Freak" Jobs would ever allow those god-awful things near his machines?
  quote
sith_lord
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2005-06-11, 13:31

Just as long as the developers produce a hybrid of their programs I'm fine with it and it will make my inevitable switch to an Intel mac more of a customer discretion rather than a technical liabilty to stick with a PPC.

I didn't read the posting guidelines.
  quote
thegelding
feeling my oats
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: there are nice people here...that makes me happy
Send a message via AIM to thegelding  
2005-06-11, 13:40

eh, just got my iMac G5 rev b not too long ago...by the time i need a new machine apple will probably be back to using powerpc chips again when they bounce ahead of intel at getting to a 26 sized chip and have 8 of them on each board (16 for the PM)

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
  quote
Whaley
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota
 
2005-06-11, 14:06

It seems we have been through a CPU manufacturer change before. Didn't Motorola make all the CPUs at one point? Then IBM and Freescale. I am not so worried about the maker of the chips.

I wonder if writing system software for three different processors (G4, G5 and G-intel) will slow things down for all three. But that is happening already too (G3, G4, G5)
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2005-06-11, 14:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley
It seems we have been through a CPU manufacturer change before. Didn't Motorola make all the CPUs at one point? Then IBM and Freescale. I am not so worried about the maker of the chips.
Yes, but they were the same family of processors with the same ISA and Freescale essentially is Motorola's chip division.

What you mention is more like a PC manufacturer switching between Intel and AMD. That's not such a big deal. However, this is almost nothing like what Apple is doing now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley
I wonder if writing system software for three different processors (G4, G5 and G-intel) will slow things down for all three. But that is happening already too (G3, G4, G5)
Again, the G3, G4, and G5 are of the same family of processors with the same ISA. It takes almost zero effort to make software run on all of them. Low-level assembly instructions work on all three as long as it's not AltiVec, and AltiVec instructions work the same on the G4 and G5.

Switching to x86, however, means throwing away all low-level code like that and starting over again.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
CoreMac
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-06-11, 15:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
Honestly, I don't get why people are freaking out. It makes not one bit of difference to the average consumer, but they're getting their panties in a bunch due to ignorance, and spouting all sorts of inane proclamations. Annoying.
These misguided perceptions are potentially a big problem. Steve should have seen this coming and handled things differently. I still think the best way to handle it was to say that the future is the new universal format for Intel and PPC, at least at this point. They revealed too much too soon. Let's hope he can pull it out of the tail spin some way.

Guess who I wasn't. ;)
  quote
dusanyu
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-06-11, 17:27

I only have one Gripe Many of the more tech "switchers" went to apple to get away from the mess that is the x86 not that apple is going intel he only way we who dislike the x86 can get our desktop RISC fix is with IBM.

the intel move just feels premature to me apple has always has been a leader not a follower and kept that tradition alive by going to the CELL Processor.
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2005-06-11, 17:45

I thought it was already discussed that CELL wouldn't be appropriate for desktop usage. No?
  quote
BlueRabbit
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
2005-06-11, 18:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by ast3r3x
I thought it was already discussed that CELL wouldn't be appropriate for desktop usage. No?
Well, according to this article, Sony approached Apple about using the Cell processor rather than Intel, but Steve Jobs believed that the Cell would be less effective than the PowerPC.
  quote
Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-11, 19:40

And I believe he was correct.

Look, I have a good friend who did some of the basic design work for Cell, and when the rumors first started swirling about Mac/Cell, his response was basically "Are you nuts? That'd be horrible, it's not what it was designed for."
  quote
SilentEchoes
Unique Like Everyone Else
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Send a message via AIM to SilentEchoes  
2005-06-11, 20:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusanyu
I only have one Gripe Many of the more tech "switchers" went to apple to get away from the mess that is the x86 not that apple is going intel he only way we who dislike the x86 can get our desktop RISC fix is with IBM.
I would be willing to wager a bet that most people did not switch to the Mac to get away form the x86 ISA. Most people switched from Windows. Not the instruction set.

WARNING: Do not let Dr. Mario touch your genitals. He is not a real doctor.
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2005-06-11, 21:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEchoes
I would be willing to wager a bet that most people did not switch to the Mac to get away form the x86 ISA. Most people switched from Windows. Not the instruction set.
Psh, shows how much you know. People LOVE windows, but hate x86. It all comes down to marketing. People love to have power in the name of their chip architecture
  quote
Capt. Obvious
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: in the ragged heart of Ol' Dixie...
 
2005-06-11, 23:11

None of this means what most seem to think it means (it's been a rough week in the forae...).

people forget that Intel != x86.

word I get is that Intel has been trying to move beyond legacy x86 limitations for a while (iTanium), only to receive no support from Redmond & the Backward Compatibility Zombies. this is why they've pursued Apple so ardently: Apple's new business will be a chance for Intel to showcase their latest & greatest (and maybe give Bill a shot in the ribs) - and if, with Apple's help, they can incorporate some basic PPC tech going forward, then so much the better.

give me my cowdog-shaped camera,
give me my PDA in 6 Barbie-licious colors,
give me my iPod-powered flying postage-stamp made of Krell metal!!!!!11 YUO F00lZ
  quote
Capt. Obvious
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: in the ragged heart of Ol' Dixie...
 
2005-06-11, 23:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by ast3r3x
Psh, shows how much you know. People LOVE windows, but hate x86.
...and what planet is that?
  quote
Logic1701
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Akron, OH
Send a message via AIM to Logic1701  
2005-06-11, 23:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusanyu
I only have one Gripe Many of the more tech "switchers" went to apple to get away from the mess that is the x86 not that apple is going intel he only way we who dislike the x86 can get our desktop RISC fix is with IBM.
As a life-long Windows user, my decision to switch (hopefully in the next month or so) has nothing to do with processor dissatisfaction. My frustration has always been with the poor performance of Windows. OSX simply blew me away the first time I played with it. With 10.3 I was hooked, and 10.4 seems even better. As long as Apple keeps the producing a superior operating system and the great iLife software, I don't think anyone is going to care about which processor is used.
  quote
nassau
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-06-11, 23:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha

....

Honestly, I don't get why people are freaking out. It makes not one bit of difference to the average consumer, but they're getting their panties in a bunch due to ignorance, and spouting all sorts of inane proclamations. Annoying.

i does make sense. i would consider not getting a PPC now. why? because, whenever i buy a computer, i sell my old one to pay in part for the new one.

let's say i buy a PPC mac tomorrow, 3-4 years from now i will want to sell it and buy a new comp. by that time, PPC will be obsolete on the market. they will not be very atractive as second hand items.


that's what i'm thinking of...
  quote
iDaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
 
2005-06-12, 01:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by nassau
let's say i buy a PPC mac tomorrow, 3-4 years from now i will want to sell it and buy a new comp. by that time, PPC will be obsolete on the market. they will not be very atractive as second hand items.
That's a good point. PPC Mac resale value will suffer in a few years. Just one more reason to be concerned about obsolescence.

I hope Apple will come out with some very compelling upgrades over the next six or eight months to keep Macs moving. It won't cost them that much to put more memory, big hard drives and fast GPUs in them; the things most people are craving.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2005-06-12, 02:02

I think expecting PPC resale value to diminish in 2-3 years from now any more rapidly than older ones is pretty foolish. If anything, I expect the current and upcoming Macs will hold the resale value better because of the fact that they have a PPC chip in them, making them compatible with more software and making them not Intel-powered.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
iDaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
 
2005-06-12, 02:30

Brad, no offense but you sound like one who is still holding on to OS 9. Like it or not, it sounds like Intel and x86 is Apple's future. I think it's doubtful that PPC Macs will become collector's items, except for a specializing few.
  quote
staph
Microbial member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to staph  
2005-06-12, 02:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by iDaver
Brad, no offense but you sound like one who is still holding on to OS 9. Like it or not, it sounds like Intel and x86 is Apple's future. I think it's doubtful that PPC Macs will become collector's items, except for a specializing few.
I think the basis for Brad's reasoning is twofold:

(1) there is a vast amount of software which has been substantially optimised for PPC; it will take some time for the same level of optimisation to be applied to x86 Mac software; and,

(2) there is a vast amount of software which will never be actively ported to, or even run on x86 Macs. For example, it's looking increasingly unlikely that Classic will run on Intel, which obviously means that anyone hoping to hang on to their legacy software must needs stick with PPC.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure Brad is not one of the OS-9-or-death camp. His statement was perhaps a little hyperbolic, but certainly does describe a possible reality.
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 5 [1] 2 3 4 5  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What a year this is going to turn out to be for me. Quagmire AppleOutsider 11 2005-06-06 23:22
Applescipt to import song year for iTunes? The Return of the 'nut Third-Party Products 2 2005-02-24 14:10
Apple's progress in 2005 Messiahtosh Speculation and Rumors 37 2005-02-03 08:48
Apple's X11 - How i uninstall? hype.it Genius Bar 3 2004-08-26 13:30


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:41.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2024, AppleNova