Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
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Unions at big box retailers or online distributors just might. The idea being that this will force the companies to pay just compensation and fair working conditions for their employees. The price differential will get passed to customers, nullifying some amount of the advantages they have price-wise.
There's a reason city centres crumbled when unions started to die... |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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No single local union, sure, but more union adoption across the board? Since you mentioned Amazon, consider that a fair portion of their price advantage comes from abusing its workers. If Amazon had decent union representation for its massive warehouse and distribution and delivery staffs — many of which have absurd working conditions and no benefits like health care — then not only would those people have a more livable wage, but also the general commerce playing field would become more fair since the money to pay a proper wage has to come from somewhere (I assume exec comps aren't likely to budge).
edit: I didn't see bobsky's post on the new page. Basically that. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Amazon is a company that nobody really wants to work for, but does because they need work. A union would be helpful, but they need to fight for company wide, no just one warehouse at a time like they are now.
Amazon is quickly becoming a last resort shopping place for me now,. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I believe that this story in Inc. Magazine is relevant to this discussion.
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/dol...ial-media.html ... |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Even as you move to upper management (still a grunt just paid "a little more" with MORE responsibility) you are still always on the chopping block compared to the higher producing staff. In all of the horrible treatment I never once thought I should unionize so I could get a better working environment. In fact, I never though it would be a permanent job. It was always a stepping stone to something better. I've never thought of retail (hospitality or merchandise) as a full on career. The revolving employment of lower level employees makes the concept of a union generally laughable. In the early 2000's when I worked retail, as a manager, I was getting ~$13 an hour. There is no way any of that was going to a union "tax" knowing it was a temporary job anyway. Based on the conversations I had with other employees, especially subordinates, that was the general mindset. Even at the assistant manager spot leaving was always in the back of their mind. Most were way more entrenched by the time they became a store manager though. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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The stepping stone mindset is the worst mindset to have. Not saying one should make retail manager their career goal, but just because it is a stepping stone, doesn't mean it has to suck.
It is what led to new airline first officers to being paid $20,000 a year pre-tax. It was just a stepping stone to get to a place like United, Delta, American, etc so why bother fighting for more. Making less than the person flipping burgers at McDonalds, but with far more responsibility, time and money invested to get your ratings, etc. All because that regional airline job is just temporary and meant to be used to spring you to the better gigs. Until it doesn't due to 9/11, Age 65, 2008, etc causing you to be stuck as an FO at that regional airline because there was no movement since no one was hiring. I know you're going to shoot back turtle, that is a unionized shop and they didn't help. But it's hard to fight for something when your members don't care to fight for it. They are not unified behind fighting for better pay and conditions because their mindset is get in and get out, don't try to improve things while they are there. Regional airline unions are all weak due to that. Add to it the airline is likely their first exposure of a union and thus don't understand how a union functions especially with the decline of unions over the past few decades, it's hard to strengthen them. Member apathy is among the biggest problems. At my former regional airline, only about 20% of eligible members voted on anything. That's pathetic and management sees that. It weakens any position the union has. giggity |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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To be realistic though, not all job will be "nice" jobs. Many suck and that is where there is high turnover and generally unskilled workers employed in those positions. Sure it sucks, but the reality is some jobs just do suck. That is why gas stations in my area are offering $20 and hour full time! That seems to be huge compared to what I was getting as a "manager" in retail. No one wants to work a gas station (even nice ones like QT/Wawa/etc... because it sucks as a job. Really though, it is just retail and in the end most don't grow up dreaming of working retails.
Going back to Starbucks and Apple Store unionizing, I'm still scratching my head on that one. Now that I think more about it, my mindset and personal experience in retail helps shape my views on this. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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giggity |
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Sneaky Punk
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Any public company is run by shareholders at the end of the day, and they pick bean counters to maximize their returns. They care nothing for employees (at any level) or customers.
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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This thread improves instantly if we can discuss what is the value of an onion.
Now that, I've got some opinions/thoughts on. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Take it to the recipe thread, Ringo
I see that the Amazon Labor Union failed to get enough votes to organize, from the workers in question. That's actually surprising, considering that New York is a "closed shop" state (versus "right to work" (RTW) states like those in the south). Unions can still be very effective in right to work states because there is (and always will be) a race to the bottom, without established pay minimums. A percentage of project-by-project union workers in RTW states join unions grudgingly, against their own political ideals. They bite the bullet in order to get hired on big projects. Some come to understand the benefit of membership, over time. They may not be enthusiastic about it, but it is a useful tool. In time, with experience and reputation, they will be able to ask more than the scale rate in the collective bargaining agreement. In the meantime, the wage stability provided by the CBA assures a stable framework that allows for a professional workforce to develop. One man shows, like my anti-union electrician cousin, are left with the smaller jobs. They charge less, and have a different class of clientele. They are happy to operate independently, and may be excellent at their work, but they are in eternal competition with their fellows and must be prepared to accept less in order to continue receiving an income. Some of these independent operators are true entrepreneurs, and can excel in the market. However, some workers lack business acumen. They rely on the stability that union contracts provide. ... |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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You know, one day I should look up right to work and closed shop. I've pretty much always lived in the south (though outside the DC beltway is hardly "the south") and yet I have never been aware of how one way over the other could effect me. I guess I've just never crossed a path where it was a good of bad thing for me, at least not and know it.
BTW, Drew, you keep making reference to political views in previous responses so it has me wondering, why conservatives tend to lean away from union where liberals tend to embrace them. Please believe me when I'm asking these questions that I really don't know. I'm not playing ignorant/naive, I really am and it is why I'm asking. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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In a "right to work" state, employers can fire you for any* or no reason at all with no advance notice. If a union exists as an option, you may choose to join one and should be protected by its rules, but membership is not compulsory. "Closed shop" means you are required to join and maintain membership of the union for that particular employment if it exists, and the employer has to abide to union rules which may forbid termination without just cause. * "Wrongful termination" technically exists in "right to work" states, protecting against retaliation and some forms of discrimination, but good luck enforcing that or fighting in court if you don't have something like a union to back you up. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Thank you. That is why I've always been confused by it and just kinda ignored it. "Right to work" seems like a misnomer. I'm sure there is something back 200 years ago where it fit but not it seems like it is a better description for closed shop based on what you wrote.
I've always had the mindset I had to work hard and prove my worth to keep my job. As opposed to the federal employees I was around while active duty in the Navy. Of course, while active duty there was no specific concern about losing my job, just my rank and pay. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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Conservatism (in the US at least) = strong support of Laissez-faire free market, individualism, privatization, and deregulation = Unions are bad because they try to counter some of those core principles. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Sneaky Punk
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I always assumed conservatives saw unions as being an evil communist type thing. Then again some of the most conservative (economically and politically) people I know work in union environments and think they are wonderful.
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