[turtle]

Originally Posted by joveblue Even if it wasn't unlocked, why would they have to choose a network? Couldn't they be on both?

Locked by nature is to be tied to a specific network. If it wasn't unlocked, i.e. it was locked, then they would have to be tired to a network. Then if you want the phone you would have to buy it from eBay or for full retail from the network that has the phone and unlock it yourself.

Now as your question posses, they could do contracts with both companies here in the in US, but then what about the global market? How many companies are out there for them to market the phones through. Apple is a big company that can no doubt handle negotiating a few contracts for phone sales, but this doesn't seem their style.

While their Mac's have resellers/retailers who are third party, Apple doesn't really give them a whole lot of profit margin. It's not Apple way of doing things. However if you look at the iPod, it isn't much different. Notice the prices are always the same (+ or - a few dollars) and almost never on sale? Why would the iPhone be any different? Seems they would be better off to have an unlocked GSM phone for sale on Apple.com and other Apple Authorized agents.

Sure this could be Cingular, T-Mobile, Orange, etc. but this would match Apples past as I know it. (caveat - I spent most of my life bashing Mac OS and Apple until 2005 so I'm not exactly in the know, just my observations.)

[joveblue]

Right, but this isn't how people are used to buying phones (speaking from an Australian perspective at least). People buy phones through the networks because they can get them low cost and pay it out through their contract, and usually get a substantial discount (ie the phone company sacrifices their profit to get the customer). I don't really see this changing, and I think Apple could be sacrificing a huge amount of sales by not taking this route. Although I don't really know the particular economics of it all...

[jbizza773]

I think its important for us to think about this topic like Apple would rather than the what the consumer thinks. Because what the consumer thinks can always be changed with innovation...hence the Nintendo Wii (for a recent example). If you woulda told people about a wireless motion sensored remote to play games they would have laughed at you 2 year ago. So...

Apple, in my mind, is all about simplicity and seamless integration, the way things are supposed to work. Apple also likes to sell their products and sofware so that people own it instead of renting it. I dont think that Apple this time around will get into the whole contract/no contract, unlocked vs. locked argument. Apple has no problem charging people $300 for a product that they know works perfectly with its software and other hardware. I thinnk a smartphone that's seamlessly integrated with its software that is unlocked GSM makes the most sense for them over the life of the product. Palm has no problem selling Treos at 300 even with a contract. And they have sold millions of them. And there is a perfect $299 slot in between the two iPod 5G configurations that is just about perfect for a phone with seamless integration in Apple's lineup.

A smartphone with seamless integration with Adress Book, iCal, iTunes, Mail and iPhoto, (maybe even "iwork to go" or vice versa) is the perfect companion to a Machead like myself. I was just thinking the other day that I have a Cingular Go Phone and I have addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdays, etc in my ddress book, that are not in my phone. That is THE seamless niche that Apple will expoit, and do it well.

OS X Mobile, or whatever they choose to call it, would be perfect and the web browser would be perfectly optimized for the screen on the phone. Your favorits from safari are automatically updated on your phone for easy browsing. D.U.N. for business people on the go through a firewire connection. An internal rechargeable battery for the iPod/iTunes mobile features, and a removable/rechargeable battery for the smartphone features.

A 2 MP camera that automatically syncs any photos you take in iPhoto, and any video you record into iMovie. The possibilities are there if we think about what we all want in a phone. I am more concerned about (a) the user interface b/c most phoes suck at the moment u pick them up and try to figure out how to work the darn thing; and (b) the durability of it b/c people rop their phones all the time. It seems that Apple is fond of the aluminum housing for their iPods, and i am sure the 6G iPod will be in an aluminum housing.

We know it will be sexy, and sleek, and have the wow factor for being a new product that has finally come out of the Apple closet of products that people have asked for for years. All that those of us who would buy such a product want, is for it to work seamlessly with our Mac(s), work right out of the box, and be a great alternative to the way that people have gotten used to using cellphones, and the companies that provide their services in this country. Thats jut my 2 cents.

[dfiler]

Apple just might be the only company with enough pull to demand things from the telecoms...

#1 missing mobile phone feature:
A real phone book.

It is absolutely astounding that our phones don't have access to an online phone book. We all carry around phones connected to a world wide digital network but yet can't look up phone numbers. People pay hundreds of dollars for the latest and greatest phones, but yet, not even the top of the line phones offer this basic feature.

The reason? A strange consumer myopia. We have let the telecoms take advantage of us. Like they couldn't make money without charging for 411? They've got the database. Our phones have the bandwidth, display, and processing power needed to make use of the data.

It almost seems stupid even from a business standpoint. A non-insignificant percentage of people would pay a monthly service charge for a phone book.

That one feature alone, a real phone book, would differentiate apple immensely. Screw music functionality, we don't even have basic phone functionality yet.

Mass myopia i tells you. Mark my words. Someday, someone will release a phone with an integrated phone book and people will go ape-shit. It'll be the best thing since sliced bread.

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by dfiler Apple just might be the only company with enough pull to demand things from the telecoms... #1 missing mobile phone feature: A real phone book. It is absolutely astounding that our phones don't have access to an online phone book. We all carry around phones connected to a world wide digital network but yet can't look up phone numbers. People pay hundreds of dollars for the latest and greatest phones, but yet, not even the top of the line phones offer this basic feature.

Ack. I hope not.

If I want somebody to have my number, I give it to them. Part of the joy of a cell phone is that your number is automatically unlisted.

[jbizza773]

Originally Posted by Anthem Ack. I hope not. If I want somebody to have my number, I give it to them. Part of the joy of a cell phone is that your number is automatically unlisted.

I am assuming that dfiler is talking about a yellow pages rather than a white pages. Hell, i think about that all the time, and dont think that i should have to pay for a data package to stand on the corner to wait for a page to download so that i can search for something that could be integrated into the phone anyway.

Apple already ships macs with a phone book widget. If they could incorporate that into the phone, and have it so that you could update the info on the fly just by changing the zip code it would be perfect.

dflier u r right about that one. never having to pay each time u call 411. And half the time u just want the damn address not the number. If i am looking for a Popeye's chicken i dont care what their number is, i want their address when the craving for some dope fried chicken hits me when I am on the L train.

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by Anthem Ack. I hope not. If I want somebody to have my number, I give it to them. Part of the joy of a cell phone is that your number is automatically unlisted.

Making the phone book easily accessible has nothing to do with whether or not your number is listed.

[halo1982]

Originally Posted by Anthem Ack. I hope not. If I want somebody to have my number, I give it to them. Part of the joy of a cell phone is that your number is automatically unlisted.

Originally Posted by dfiler Apple just might be the only company with enough pull to demand things from the telecoms... #1 missing mobile phone feature: A real phone book. It is absolutely astounding that our phones don't have access to an online phone book. We all carry around phones connected to a world wide digital network but yet can't look up phone numbers. People pay hundreds of dollars for the latest and greatest phones, but yet, not even the top of the line phones offer this basic feature.

Both my Treo 700p and Treo 700wx have this feature, but it's a Sprint-specific app from Handmark which costs $4.99 a month to use. Still, it comes integrated with the phone and a month free trial, so you really get hooked on it. Granted these are $700 phones (including tax) so it would be nice if an app like this came on phones for mere mortals..
*goes back to whoring myself out to pay for a pair of treos*

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by jbizza773 ...hence the Nintendo Wii (for a recent example). If you woulda told people about a wireless motion sensored remote to play games they would have laughed at you 2 year ago.

I still am

Originally Posted by dfiler #1 missing mobile phone feature: A real phone book. It is absolutely astounding that our phones don't have access to an online phone book.

Really? You can't just log onto the internet service and go to yellowpages.com or whitepages.com or whatever? I would've thought the directory companies would be jumping at the chance to provide this service supported by ads.

Anyway, I really don't think too many people would get their knickers in a knot over this... most of the numbers people need are in their phone's address book, and otherwise it can probably wait till they get home.

[kidtwist]

Now there's this article that says it's going to be a candy-bar shaped phone.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...0_US-APPLE.xml

I want a flip phone. Please. If the price is right I'd definitely buy an Apple flip phone, but I'm very unlikely to go for the candy-bar variety.

[Yonzie]

That's just analyst speculation, although I couldn't see Apple making a clamshell (even though I much prefer clamshells myself).

Candybar is the most likely because:
* Similar to iPod family (also Moto ROKR).
* Simple and open.
* Less prone to breakage.
* Europe prefers candybars.
---* Europe is ALL gsm ALL the time.
---* The cell phone market in Europe is much more developed than the US one. ==> More sales.

[rasmits]

Maybe Apple will come up with a whole new form factor: The clam-dy bar...

[Robo]

I figured that Apple would go for a candybar phone, or perhaps a slider - but definitely not a flip phone. A candybar phone just seems the most simple and Apple-like. A slider phone would allow them room for both an iPod clickwheel and a keypad (if the iPhone is really more of an iPod phone.) Flip phones, while fun to open and close, really are the least Apple-like of all the options.

My local news just reported on the "iPhone." They basically quoted that Rueters article word-for-word. Keep in mind that this was mere moments after they proclaimed the Acura A6 to be the safest car on the road. (At least their on-screen list got it right - the A6 is an Audi.)

[gjas15]

Originally Posted by joveblue Really? You can't just log onto the internet service and go to yellowpages.com or whitepages.com or whatever? I would've thought the directory companies would be jumping at the chance to provide this service supported by ads. Anyway, I really don't think too many people would get their knickers in a knot over this... most of the numbers people need are in their phone's address book, and otherwise it can probably wait till they get home.

With my TZones service from T-Mobile I have a phonebook I believe its under the get around menu. But I usually just use wap.google.com and the local search feature

There is even Google maps for series 60 smartphones. Sadly it doesn't seem to work through a proxy server so its a nogo with TZones.

edit.....
I take that back it seems to work now. and OMG it is so cool! its like Google Earth on your phone! Driving directions, business lookup, address lookup, TRAFFIC CONDITIONS!? and even satellite imagery. I think I found my new favorite time waster on my phone!

[ixocean]

Doesn't TMO have an online phone book that a user can access, add/change a phonebook entry and then the update shows up on the phone? Thought I read about that somewhere, anyone a TMO sub that can confirm or deny?

[Robo]

I have T-Mobile, but I don't know. I don't have all the options or anything. I don't even have T-Zones (beyond the downloading page they let everyone have).

[jbizza773]

just saw this on CNET RSS. wondered you guys thoughts...

http://news.com.com/2010-1041_3-6137...-0-5&subj=news

there are some pretty interesting ideas but maybe too progressive.

but then again, what do I know.

Jb

[TednDi]

ipod and the auto industry already there.

Add iphone to the car and you have a seamless handsfree device that can make a phone call and play your stored music.

Remember, Apple likes to have all of the pieces in place so that when they release a product it just works.

What other pieces would be out there sitting apparently unused but nevertheless there.

.mac?

iphoto?

Leopard secret features???

MWSF will indeed be an interesting show.

[Baron Munchausen]

TednDi, you've hit it!

The .mac part is the lynchpin, IMHO, as it removes the need for ones Mac to be up all the time.

[TednDi]

Originally Posted by Baron Munchausen TednDi, you've hit it! The iMac part is the lynchpin, IMHO, as it removes the need for ones Mac to be up all the time.

iMac?

or .mac?

[Baron Munchausen]

repaired - .mac

[TednDi]

I think also the concept of home on ipod might be used in the iphone.

This way you can connect to any mac and boom! all of your stuff is there and you can surf/work/whatever with all of the cookies, settings, etc on the phone and not stored on the host computer.

Perhaps the new look of .mac mail is a harbinger of things to come. Perhaps the phone will work with pc's and allow you to have your mac experience via the web if you can't find a mac to connect your phone to.

we shall see!

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by TednDi I think also the concept of home on ipod might be used in the iphone.

No chance. That requires way more storage than we're going to see in a phone right now. They could use flash memory for it, but that would be prohibitively expensive. It would end up having a small hard drive, and that would be terrible for battery life. Plus, the phone would be pretty bulky. I don't see this happening at all.

[TednDi]

But with .mac you can synch your bookmarks and also with idisk you can keep some stuff. Why not a stripped down home on your iphone.

Currently you can synch your contacts, notes and bookmarks on your ipod. Why not make that really functional?

[rasmits]

Originally Posted by TednDi But with .mac you can synch your bookmarks and also with idisk you can keep some stuff. Why not a stripped down home on your iphone. Currently you can synch your contacts, notes and bookmarks on your ipod. Why not make that really functional?

Your Home folder is not just your contacts and bookmarks, it's all of your documents, music, and movies.

Home on iPod was an old patent originally designed for Panther. It was scrapped because the iPod hard drives aren't meant to be booted from. They'll overheat.

[TednDi]

ok, so eventually we will have it when solid state memory gets large enough.

Strip it down to a manageable disk size however and you might have a small home on ipod. Kind of like a cottage on ipod.

[turtle]

Alright, Apple better come out with a Smartphone with UMTS or I'm gonna have to jump on the latest from HTC. The TyTN or Cingular 8525 here in the USA.

They seem to have fixed some of the dislikes form the 8125 and it is true 3G.

I would rather have the iPhone though. .Mac syncing would be perfect as I wouldn't have multiple contacts and other data bases. So you would have to buy a data plan to use those features, it would be worth it. Please Apple, don't let me down! I don't want to succumb to WM5 AGAIN!!!

[Robo]

I sorta doubt the iPhone will be a "smartphone," per se. The iPod never evolved into a do-everything PDA, did it? The iPhone will have many nifty features, to be sure, but will you be able to edit Word documents on it? Maybe not.

[scratt]

I agree... Apple excel at producing very functional but somewhat limited products, and then building on that foundation.

I think we will see basically what you have on an iPod today, coupled with a phone. i.e. iCal, but not iMovie, and so on..

[turtle]

For me I really don't need document editing, though viewing would be important though not show stopping; something like a compact Preview but with .doc and .xls support. Integrated iTunes or audio and video. Full messaging/email capabilities with IMAP/.Mac support. Basic games for killing time like Zuma on my 80GB iPod . Web browsing is also a must. I actually won an eBay auction from a Cold Stone Creamery on my phone. While that isn't the "norm" for me, it is that kind of functionality I need regularly. No limits on my ability to change my ring tones. MP3's, AAC's or other common audio support is a must.

After really thinking about it, a beefed up iPod would do the trick. But they will have to support viewing of documents, images, video and playing audio. WiFi is a must to go with cell service. Web browsing can't be left out either. While USB tethering will be nice, BT support would be better at full speeds. Lastly, a removable media card for easier transferring and sharing or data would be expected, though again not a show stopper.

If something like this isn't released in January then I'm going to be stuck with WM5 again until Apple makes something like I need. (No I don't care for Symbian or the Palm OS options either.) I ask a lot don't I?

Edit: I didn't mention Address Book or iCal/tasks because those are assumed.