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ATTN Fitness Junkies: General Exercise Tips?
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2008-12-02, 21:01

Preface: (skip to the fifth paragraph if you don't care) I've been 195±5 pounds for at least five years, since I was 15. (Basically, since I stopped growing.) I'm 5'7". In other words, I was thirty-five pounds overweight, calculated with the assumption that I have a "large" frame. Even before I stopped getting taller, I was overweight. I remember being notably overweight in junior high school. Lack of exercise and high carb/sugar diet was the culprit. But the larger problem was, there was nothing I could do to change my weight. A few months ago my friend explained to me that if you stay at the same weight for long enough, it becomes very difficult to break away from that weight, so I'm assuming that's what was going on. When I was sixteen, I spent a summer dieting and saw a personal trainer three times a week. I lost maybe five pounds, and given what a waste of time the whole experience felt like, I didn't continue with exercise or the diet. The bottom line is, I haven't been below 190 in a very, very long time, and had more or less accepted the fact that I was destined to be overweight.

About two months ago, my doctor put me on new medication, the side effects of which include increased metabolism and suppressed appetite. I didn't really pay attention to the fact that I was eating a lot less for three or four days after I started the medication, and when I stepped on my friends scale it read 184. I was completely shocked. I wasn't feeling any weaker despite eating next to nothing so I kept going with it, not really thinking about the long term effects on my body. I hadn't cracked 190 in five years, and suddenly I had done it in four days.

Basically, before the medication, I would eat half-again what I would consider a "normal" amount of food for one day. For the month following starting the medication, I estimate I was typically eating a "normal" amount of food for one day over the span of three days. My weight dropped to 172. When you drop twenty pounds, people notice, and I was so enamored by the newfound attention that I didn't really care about the fact that I was obviously damaging my body.

A couple weeks ago, I took a few too many (legal) drugs in one day. (Red Bull, Nicotine, Caffeinated Soda, and Ibuprofen, if you were curious) By the end of the day I could feel my heart racing my chest... my resting heart rate was above 120. My doctor suggested I cut out all stimulants, so I stopped drinking coffee, soda, and energy drinks. I also quit smoking to cut out nicotine. (Which, as far as unintended side effects go, is actually really awesome ) The racing heart stopped once I dropped stimulants, but then I realized that my body was caught in this weird state where, despite having plenty of energy, I constantly felt weak. I did manage to pick up five pounds (177, for those keeping track) over Thanksgiving which made me feel better. But I don't want to feel good at 177, I want to feel good at 155. I've decided that it isn't safe to let my weight drop below 170 simply through starving myself, tempting as it may be.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the next step is: exercise. I've increased the amount of food I'm eating (although, admittedly, it's still a little on the low side, but it's not nearly as bad as I let it get when I started this new drug) and shifted away from sugar and empty carbs to whole grains and protein. So I'm eating better, and I quit smoking, and I have a bunch of extra energy from the increased metabolism.

My friend mentioned that he typically works out MWF at 6. That time worked real well for me so I went with him on Monday. It felt great! I had a whole bunch of extra energy for the rest of the day, and despite only catching five hours of sleep last night, I sprung out of bed this morning, not sore at all, wide awake, ready to take on the day. Exercising is a lot more fun when you can feel the benefits. Going with a friend really helps as well.

I went to the gym again today and probably went a little too hard. Among other things, my abs are in some pain (gotta kill that beer belly ) and I'm sure they'll be sore tomorrow.

Which brings me around to the reason I started this thread: how can I keep from getting injured when I work out? I am fully aware that there are all sorts of bad things you can do to your body if you exercise incorrectly, and unfortunately, in the four years since I've seen my trainer, I've forgotten most of what he taught me.

In a broader sense, does anyone have general exercise advice? We have a very nice gym here at school, and I want to make the best of it. I'm not asking for someone to give me a serious and detailed exercise regimen. (Unless you really feel like suggesting one) I'm visiting my family for Christmas and my uncle has both a small gym in his house and a personal trainer... who is very good, I know that he also works with many professional athletes. I'll hit up my uncle and his trainer for a detailed regimen in a few weeks; however, it would be ideal if I didn't hurt myself between now and then.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2008-12-02 at 21:19. Reason: for the admittedly nitpicky reason that I didn't want to use the same smiley twice
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-02, 22:22

It is as complicated as you make it. Changing how you look and feel is a result of progressively moving beyond what you are comfortable doing. You will never make real progress if you stay within your comfort zone. I'm not gonna tell you how to do it, because we're all different. Not just genetically, but also our personal histories can affect how we respond to different types of training. But, information is free. It is my theory that the fitness industry has no qualms with giving away excellent and useful advice, because they know that the overwhelming majority of people will not actually do The Work™.

But just as well as you can scour the net and find thousands and thousands of excellent, knowledgeable, well researched and supported methods, programs and philosophies. Consistency is almost always more important, sometimes it might take you 6 weeks or more before you see any real progress, sometimes people get fed up after 2 weeks and try something else. Don't fall victim to over-analyzing what you are doing. Unless your program completely sucks(like, pink dumbbells are involved), consistency pays a much higher dividend than The Best Program Evar™

Personally, I am wary of most personal trainers, I see far too many of them doing remarkably pathetic workout routines with their puppy-eyed, hopeful clients, and far too few of them who actually look the part. That being said, some lifts require very particular technique to perform properly, and that can be very difficult to train yourself. When I first started lifting I consulted with a few PTs to help coach me on how to perform certain movements, which was invaluable.

The other thing I would say is. Don't judge your success to anyone but yourself. It can be intimidating if you are small and weak(or big and weak) and you enter the gym and everyone there seems to be bigger, stronger and faster than you are. Maybe you will feel like they are all watching you and chuckling, judging your every move. Just focus on your own game and leave them to theirs.

Lastly(which is really firstly imo). KEEP A JOURNAL. Write down every lift you perform, how many sets and how many reps, and every week, make those numbers bigger. Btw, I am the only person at my gym who keeps a journal, which ties into the point I made above. Sometimes I get funny looks for keeping a journal.

Last edited by Wrao : 2008-12-02 at 22:36.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2008-12-02, 22:26

What medicine are you on?

Anyway, you can lose weight quickly through controller diet and exercise, but do it too quickly and you'll kill your metabolism. Then you're F'd.

Take a look here:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/s...ad.php?t=19229

I also second keeping a journal if you're serious about it.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...

Last edited by Partial : 2008-12-03 at 02:39.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2008-12-02, 23:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Btw, I am the only person at my gym who keeps a journal, which ties into the point I made above. Sometimes I get funny looks for keeping a journal.
That is so bizarre. Not only is there lots of people in my gym walking around with clipboards writing numbers down, but my gym has 3 enormous filing cabinets full of this people's gym journals. It's great! I also believe a journal is an important step, no matter if its a diet you're working on (keeping track of your calories) or your lifts. I like to use the bikes, and swim, if that makes a difference. I think its important to keep a good balance between lifting and cardio.

User formally known as Sh0eWax
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Argento
I puked at work.
Because I'm a pussy.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Head in a trash can.
 
2008-12-02, 23:49

Whatever you do take it SLOW. So many people (myself included) get this new found zeal one day for working out, they hit it extremely hard for a week and then burn out and stop for 6 months. Taking it easy early will help build up your core, and let you experience the gym, weights, treadmills, atmosphere etc., and what you need to do to feel challenged and get a lot out of your work out.

The other main thing is to listen to your body. Its pretty good at knowing how far you can push yourself, and when you've gone too far.

And All That Could Have Been

Last edited by Argento : 2008-12-03 at 00:14.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-03, 00:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argento View Post
The other main thing is to listen to your body. Its pretty good at knowing how far you can push yourself, and when you've gone too far.
For an untrained individual, this is not entirely correct. People who have barely ever worked out before generally have very poor understanding of what their body actually is capable of, and are very quick to mistake a little bit of stress/discomfort for a whole host of conditions and ailments. Likewise, the fear of 'doing too much', is often grossly overstated.

We are all trying to learn how to listen to our bodies, but, just as well, we are trying to talk to our bodies, also.

Professional bodybuilders are athletes who train specifically to learn how to understand what their body wants. That is their job, and something that they dedicate all of their time to. Average folk(even average athletes) not so much.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2008-12-03, 03:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
It is as complicated as you make it. Changing how you look and feel is a result of progressively moving beyond what you are comfortable doing. You will never make real progress if you stay within your comfort zone. I'm not gonna tell you how to do it, because we're all different. Not just genetically, but also our personal histories can affect how we respond to different types of training. But, information is free. It is my theory that the fitness industry has no qualms with giving away excellent and useful advice, because they know that the overwhelming majority of people will not actually do The Work™.
Good advice. You'll have to pardon my ignorance, but where can I find this information?

Quote:
But just as well as you can scour the net and find thousands and thousands of excellent, knowledgeable, well researched and supported methods, programs and philosophies. Consistency is almost always more important, sometimes it might take you 6 weeks or more before you see any real progress, sometimes people get fed up after 2 weeks and try something else. Don't fall victim to over-analyzing what you are doing. Unless your program completely sucks(like, pink dumbbells are involved), consistency pays a much higher dividend than The Best Program Evar™
Good deal. I fully intend to stick with this. Even though I haven't necessarily built any muscle yet, I still feel a lot better after two days of working out. Perhaps it merely psychological, but I'll take it.

I mean, I typically spend 20 minutes on the elliptical, lift for a while, and I intend to rotate which muscles I work each day (the machines in the gym have little diagrams that show which muscles each machine works... convenient for n00bs) and then do a couple minutes on the treadmill to cool down. Nothing ridiculously elaborate.

Quote:
Personally, I am wary of most personal trainers, I see far too many of them doing remarkably pathetic workout routines with their puppy-eyed, hopeful clients, and far too few of them who actually look the part. That being said, some lifts require very particular technique to perform properly, and that can be very difficult to train yourself. When I first started lifting I consulted with a few PTs to help coach me on how to perform certain movements, which was invaluable.
I agree, however, I've seen first hand how much my uncles trainer has helped both him and my aunt. I'm pretty confident he knows what he's doing.

Quote:
The other thing I would say is. Don't judge your success to anyone but yourself. It can be intimidating if you are small and weak(or big and weak) and you enter the gym and everyone there seems to be bigger, stronger and faster than you are. Maybe you will feel like they are all watching you and chuckling, judging your every move. Just focus on your own game and leave them to theirs.
Agree! I don't feel intimidated at all by the school gym, since my school is so lopsided towards women to begin with that it's mostly ladies in the gym As for the guys, they are either fellow students so I feel comfortable with them, or total meatheads, so I don't really care what they think about me.

Honestly, given the weight I've lost and my frame (I have very wide shoulders compared to the proportions of the rest of my body - it looks like I have muscle in my chest even if I don't) I look really good right now. I've noticed more girls checking me out than I've noticed anyone giving me dirty looks

Quote:
Lastly(which is really firstly imo). KEEP A JOURNAL. Write down every lift you perform, how many sets and how many reps, and every week, make those numbers bigger. Btw, I am the only person at my gym who keeps a journal, which ties into the point I made above. Sometimes I get funny looks for keeping a journal.
I'm not sure if I want to try that out, but I will keep it in mind. Thanks for the advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
What medicine are you on?
Actually, I would rather not say, for several reasons. First, the medication itself isn't relevant to this discussion. Second, this drug is very new and therefore obscure... if I named it everyone would scurry to Wikipedia to become instant internet experts. There's only one person here I can think of that might be familiar with this drug. Third, given the side effects I've mentioned, I don't think its very hard to guess the active ingredient. Finally, it is a controlled substance, and this is the internet. Providing context for my workout motivations is one thing; broadcasting the names of my controlled medications is another.

I strongly considered leaving out the preface to the situation, but I believe that the context is important in this case. Leaving the specifics of the medication out is the compromise I decided on.

Quote:
Anyway, you can lose weight quickly through controller diet and exercise, but do it too quickly and you'll kill your metabolism. Then you're F'd.
Given that I've lost 20 pounds in a month and my metabolism has only increased, I'm not really worried about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argento View Post
Whatever you do take it SLOW. So many people (myself included) get this new found zeal one day for working out, they hit it extremely hard for a week and then burn out and stop for 6 months. Taking it easy early will help build up your core, and let you experience the gym, weights, treadmills, atmosphere etc., and what you need to do to feel challenged and get a lot out of your work out.
Given that I'm on day two, this is good advice. Still, I don't see myself burning out. I have so much extra energy I need to do something with it, and I've never before been this serious about getting in shape, mostly because I've already broken the weight loss barrier that was holding me back.

Quote:
The other main thing is to listen to your body. Its pretty good at knowing how far you can push yourself, and when you've gone too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
For an untrained individual, this is not entirely correct. People who have barely ever worked out before generally have very poor understanding of what their body actually is capable of, and are very quick to mistake a little bit of stress/discomfort for a whole host of conditions and ailments. Likewise, the fear of 'doing too much', is often grossly overstated.
Well that sounds good. Is there anything I should know about identifying actual injuries?

Quote:
We are all trying to learn how to listen to our bodies, but, just as well, we are trying to talk to our bodies, also.

Professional bodybuilders are athletes who train specifically to learn how to understand what their body wants. That is their job, and something that they dedicate all of their time to. Average folk(even average athletes) not so much.
I've actually been playing close attention to things my body is trying to tell me recently. Given the changes my body has been going through, I've found this to be very prudent advice.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-03, 03:36

Again, it is nice to say "I'm listening to my body", but if you are really as untrained as you say you are, how do you know that what you are hearing has any relevance whatsoever? Our bodies generally seek the path of least resistance, why do you think we store fat so easily, and gain muscle so slowly? Generally speaking, the body doesn't really like holding onto active tissue(muscle) that requires extra maintenance, if you are not providing the reason to have that tissue, the body will just as soon get rid of it.

As for injuries. Well, that is a tough subject because I am in no way qualified to give you advice or diagnosis really, I'm just a hobbyist. The only injuries that I have dealt with are overuse injuries, but even then I've found that, when they heal, my definition of 'overuse' widens. This is an area that a well-qualified personal trainer can help you with, it is also an area that you should consult a physician on.
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AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2008-12-03, 03:37

Here's a specific idea to add to the general tips:

Buy a nice pair of running shoes (important) and set your mind to running a marathon next Fall. Almost anyone can do it (check out some of the images on websites of marathons) - it just takes time and consistency. There are plenty of online resources regarding training, and decent bookstores should have a good selection of real books (which I prefer because I'm old). If you combine this training with a decent diet, you WILL lose the weight, you will gain core fitness (especially cardio) and you will likely have a lot less stress in your busy life.

After the the marathon you will always be able to say, yeah, I ran the http://www.hawaiiforvisitors.com/events/marathons.htm last month - itsucked/wasgreat/followedababethelast10k/beautifulday/neveragain/nextyear
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scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
Send a message via Skype™ to scratt 
2008-12-03, 20:57

Buy, and learn how to use, one of the Polar exercise watches.

It's all well and good running and so on, but if you are working too hard or not hard enough then you'll be doing nothing, or all sorts of damage, potentially.

Me personally I swear by 35 - 45 minutes on an elliptical trainer 2 days on, one day off.
That in itself keeps me at a level of fitness which means I can then go and do other stuff, like motor racing, falling out of planes... And as most of you know I still smoke, eat crap and party my ass off, and I am 40 next year!!

But for me the real key is regular exercise each and every week and doing it in the correct heart rate range. Oh, and eating well.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
  quote
colivigan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
 
2008-12-03, 22:19

So is eating well the same as eating crap? It doesn't make a lot of sense, but hey, count me in.

I'm ready to sign up for the scratt program.
  quote
scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
Send a message via Skype™ to scratt 
2008-12-03, 22:59

Good point! Not very clear..

What I mean is I chow down on chocolate, junk food and all sorts of bad crap, but I do balance it with proper "meat and two veg" type eating at meal times the majority of the time... oh, and lots of vino!

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2008-12-04, 03:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Again, it is nice to say "I'm listening to my body", but if you are really as untrained as you say you are, how do you know that what you are hearing has any relevance whatsoever?
Because some things are obvious. If my resting heart rate is too high, it probably means I'm taking in too much caffeine. If I constantly feel weak despite getting enough sleep, it obviously means I'm not eating enough. If my lung capacity undergoes a noticeable drop, it means I'm smoking too much.

WRT exercise, if a muscle is sore, it probably means it got a good workout. But if a muscle is giving me sharp pains, it probably means I fucked something up.

You're right, I'm no expert. But the basics of "listening to your body" is really just common sense. More importantly, until recently, I was mostly completely ignoring whatever my body was trying to tell me, even when it was blatantly obvious. (e.g. drinking too much, feeling sick, and then continuing to drink/smoke.)

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
  quote
AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2008-12-04, 03:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post

It's all well and good running and so on, but if you are working too hard or not hard enough then you'll be doing nothing, or all sorts of damage, potentially.
I have a Polar and love it. I use it during about half of my runs and, as you say, it let's one know if he's running too hard or not hard enough (depending on the jog/run scheduled). I think it's especially useful for someone fine-tuning their levels, especially if they are running 5 times a week (or more).

But I wouldn't call it essential. People have been running and obtaining super fitness without this useful tool for a grillion years. 99.9% of the damage someone in Kre's position might endure from a jogging/running regime won't come from not being hooked up to a Polar. 90.7% will come from leg joints and muscles, and a lot of that can be avoided by easy easy first k/mile, a nice easy stretch after the run, and good shoes.

Not that I disagree with the concept but if we're talking about getting started (and even training for a marathon), the HRM is an optional if not useful gadget. Just getting out there consistently and running hard when you feel good, and not hard when you are tired (and varying distances and speeds) is enough.

Last edited by AWR : 2008-12-04 at 04:15. Reason: Clean-up!
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scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
Send a message via Skype™ to scratt 
2008-12-04, 03:57

Good points.. But the most common "starters" mistake in exercise is to push too hard, especially too early in the session, which can lead to strains and injuries which then go on to make future exercise unpleasant... It's a vicious circle, which can make people give up simply due to lack of knowledge / guidance. It also puts strains on organs and muscles for little or no relative gain.

People looking for cardiovascular fitness, or simply weight loss, all too often miss the target heart ranges for this, again negating the point of the exercise, and as I have already said simply putting wear and tear on their body.

Yeah, they'll be more healthy than they were before, probably.

But it's amazing what wasted effort those simple mistakes can mean.

A Polar is not essential, but proper warm up as you say, and a proper regime planned by somebody or *something* is, I think, very important.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
  quote
AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2008-12-04, 04:14

Agree. (I just had it in my mind that pushing it too hard early on wasn't going to be his issue.)

(Just kidding, Kraetos! )

Sticking to a good plan devised by someone who knows what they're talking about is sound advice. Plenty of good books out there; and finding out which ones are good is easier now with the internet thing.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2008-12-04, 22:05

If your metabolism has increased and your heart is pounding, i'd say theres some sort of ephedra/ephedrine in the pills. Be careful.

Do not at any given time exceed 200mg of caffeine, 30mg of ephedra/ephedrine, or 320mg of aspirin or any sort of blood thinner at a time.

It's very dangerous. Seriously, if your heart is pumping hard, that is some serious shit and you're taking YEARS off of your life.

Metabolism: Many people have lost 50 pounds only to put back on 100 because eventually their metabolism adjusted because they lost a lot of muscle to go with the fat. Be careful.

I suggest ditching the pills unless they're absolutely critical. The healthiest way to live is free of any sort of medication. I'm taking a leap of faith and assuming its some sort of depression/happy pill sort of dealy from the way you discuss it. That's not a healthy way to tackle your demons imo, and as long as you're becoming physically fit, might as well work on becoming mentally as well.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
  quote
scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
Send a message via Skype™ to scratt 
2008-12-04, 22:08

Does the same apply when I snort cocaine?
  quote
MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2008-12-05, 07:04

I'll read through this more thoroughly later to see if I can offer you any advice that hasn't been covered yet...but one thing I'd like to say is:

Stay away from protein supplements.

They are all, 100%, bullshit. There's no agency that regulates these things. That means that there really is nobody checking to make sure that what the companies print on the label is actually in the bottle. Companies can hide whatever ingredients they don't want to expressly list by calling it a "Proprietary Blend". On top of that, you don't need extra protein (IF that's even what's in the powder).

A well balanced diet will give you all the protein you need, and prolonged high-protein diets are known to be detrimental to kidney function. So the next time you see some dude in the gym choking down a lumpy brown protein shake right after a workout, just smile and keep walking.

The absolute best protein is egg whites. It is the standard used when determining the level of purity in all other proteins. Salmon is also really good, along with chicken.

It shouldn't be a surprise that the only real way to get in shape is regulating your caloric intake and increasing your level of physical activity. Cut out the crap that your body gets nothing out off (stuff like Soda). Drink water...your body LOVES water, even more than food.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2008-12-05, 09:52

Moogs' Helpful Exercise and Diet for Healthy Living Plan for All:

Avoid fried foods, eat fewer processed sweets, have more sex. Lots more.
  quote
Argento
I puked at work.
Because I'm a pussy.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Head in a trash can.
 
2008-12-05, 10:27

I think the overall problem with weight loss/working out is apparent in this thread. The problem I have with it is that people put working out on this pedestal where you have all these factors you have to consider when it can be very easily broken down (much like Moogs has) to very easy to follow points. Eat a well balanced diet of the food groups. Work out at a good pace that won't over exert yourself. If you do those things you'll be healthy, and avoid injury.

You don't need different devices, you don't need to follow a strict rule of dos and don'ts. I stand by my statement that your body will let you know if you're hurting yourself, even if you don't work out often, you'll know. If you don't know, error on the side of caution and slow down. You might not get the most out of your work out, but you'll learn. Losing weight is not something that happens fast. It NEVER does, so not giving 100% every time won't kill you.

And All That Could Have Been
  quote
Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2008-12-05, 10:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post
I'll read through this more thoroughly later to see if I can offer you any advice that hasn't been covered yet...but one thing I'd like to say is:

Stay away from protein supplements.

They are all, 100%, bullshit. There's no agency that regulates these things. That means that there really is nobody checking to make sure that what the companies print on the label is actually in the bottle. Companies can hide whatever ingredients they don't want to expressly list by calling it a "Proprietary Blend". On top of that, you don't need extra protein (IF that's even what's in the powder).

A well balanced diet will give you all the protein you need, and prolonged high-protein diets are known to be detrimental to kidney function. So the next time you see some dude in the gym choking down a lumpy brown protein shake right after a workout, just smile and keep walking.

The absolute best protein is egg whites. It is the standard used when determining the level of purity in all other proteins. Salmon is also really good, along with chicken.

It shouldn't be a surprise that the only real way to get in shape is regulating your caloric intake and increasing your level of physical activity. Cut out the crap that your body gets nothing out off (stuff like Soda). Drink water...your body LOVES water, even more than food.
Egg whites are the best protein? Best at what? Whey protein is absorbed far better, and casein is absorbed far slower for overnight usage.

I've taken a lot of protein powder, and I don't really see a problem with it. If you're trying to drop weight and preserve muscle, getting plenty of protein is key. Unless he's putting down 20% of his calories from protein sources, that is probably not adequate.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-05, 12:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post
A well balanced diet will give you all the protein you need, and prolonged high-protein diets are known to be detrimental to kidney function. So the next time you see some dude in the gym choking down a lumpy brown protein shake right after a workout, just smile and keep walking.
This is not exactly true. There have been studies that have suggested that a lower protein diet can help someone who already has damaged kidneys, but there has been no evidence suggesting a healthy individual(i.e. with no kidney disorders) will be adversely effected by unrestricted protein intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779


As for protein supplements in general. You are forgetting that many of the people who makes these products, use them as well. I am not about to defend the supplement industry, because it is indefensible, you are absolutely right when you say that companies can get away with just about anything. But, you are wrong to say that all (protein) supplements are trash. The majority of products out there are BS in some way or another, but just as well there are products that are quite simply, what they say they are, for better or worse. With the case of Protein supplements. It is just food. Nothing magical about it.

The bigger issue is when people look at supplements as being the source of their success(or lack thereof). Most supplements really don't make much of a difference for the overwhelming majority of people, even if they are 100% pure-pharmaceutical grade ingredients. Then, even if they would provide a difference, it is generally only applicable to the 1% that actually trains hard enough to need extra this or that.

That being said, if you're not taking fish oil regularly, god will kill a kitten.

Last edited by Wrao : 2008-12-05 at 15:52.
  quote
MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2008-12-05, 16:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
Egg whites are the best protein? Best at what? Whey protein is absorbed far better, and casein is absorbed far slower for overnight usage.

I've taken a lot of protein powder, and I don't really see a problem with it. If you're trying to drop weight and preserve muscle, getting plenty of protein is key. Unless he's putting down 20% of his calories from protein sources, that is probably not adequate.
The "best" in terms of getting the most out of it per mass. I don't have medical studies to back this up, but I was told this on two separate occasions. Once by a cardiologist at Columbia Presbyterian when I was talking to him about protein consumption and once by a professor of Genetics. I mean, do you really believe your body is better at processing dehydrated protein powder once mixed with water/milk than something natural like egg whites or salmon?

But yeah, if Joe the Gym Rat takes 150 grams of protein via supplements a day, then clearly it must be good!

You are right that current research shows that even body builders gain nothing out of having > 20% of their caloric intake come from protein-rich sources. So my question to you is: why bother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
This is not exactly true. There have been studies that have suggested that a lower protein diet can help someone who already has damaged kidneys, but there has been no evidence suggesting a healthy individual(i.e. with no kidney disorders) will be adversely effected by unrestricted protein intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779
You are absolutely right Wrao, but it is worth noting that research also shows that people who already have kidney problems see their issues exacerbated by high protein diets. I do acknowledge that there has been no proof to link kidney disorder (in previously healthy people) with high protein diets and should have stated earlier that this was merely my personal belief (IMO, it seems kind of obvious -- not an excuse for my terribly worded post on this point though).

I am a big believer that anything in excess is not good and I'd rather use common sense in not loading up on protein (especially in the form of questionable supplements) because, regardless of how good your kidney function is, the excess protein must be processed by your kidneys anyway.

Last edited by MBHockey : 2008-12-05 at 16:30.
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2008-12-05, 16:50

Here's what I do:

Like already said here, take it slow. It's the long haul that counts, and the first priority is to remain capable of exercise.

I never go to the gym because it bores me. I prefer to run and swim. It's very practical to know how to swim as you are bound to fall in the water sometime in your life. Especially if the weather is nice and the beer is plenty. And running is the most cost effective exercise.

Diet-wise I'd suggest whole-grain (probably hard to come by in the US), vegetables, and fatty fish. Also tap water is much better than soft drinks.

Works for me.

  quote
MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2008-12-05, 18:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
Diet-wise I'd suggest whole-grain (probably hard to come by in the US), vegetables, and fatty fish. Also tap water is much better than soft drinks.
Couldn't agree more.
  quote
Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2008-12-05, 19:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post
The "best" in terms of getting the most out of it per mass. I don't have medical studies to back this up, but I was told this on two separate occasions. Once by a cardiologist at Columbia Presbyterian when I was talking to him about protein consumption and once by a professor of Genetics. I mean, do you really believe your body is better at processing dehydrated protein powder once mixed with water/milk than something natural like egg whites or salmon?
No, I don't. But do most people eat egg whites and salmon every day? No. Protein powder is an easy way to get protein. It's also a clean food, and low calorie. What isn't to like about that?

Quote:
But yeah, if Joe the Gym Rat takes 150 grams of protein via supplements a day, then clearly it must be good!
Who cares how you get it? Of course it's better to have it come from natural sources like poultry or meat. They have far more BCAAs.

The point is saying its garbage and loaded with a bunch of crap and doesn't work is nonsense. What exactly is it supposed to be doing that it isn't? The goal of protein powder is to give your body added protein. It accomplishes this with great efficiency. Not everyone has the time to grill up chicken breasts twice a day, and thats not even factoring the pennies a scoop of protein costs compared to the big bucks for quality poultry/meat.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-05, 22:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post
The "best" in terms of getting the most out of it per mass. I don't have medical studies to back this up, but I was told this on two separate occasions. Once by a cardiologist at Columbia Presbyterian when I was talking to him about protein consumption and once by a professor of Genetics. I mean, do you really believe your body is better at processing dehydrated protein powder once mixed with water/milk than something natural like egg whites or salmon?

But yeah, if Joe the Gym Rat takes 150 grams of protein via supplements a day, then clearly it must be good!
If Joe Gym Rat is gaining muscle that way, then who am I to tell him what he is doing is wrong/doesn't work? Additionally, Whey protein powder is just that... dehydrated milk protein, it is 1 step away from being food. Now I am not going to argue that a processed food product is = to real food, but, it sounds as if your impression of what protein powders actually are is tainted by your perceptions about whether or not they are functional.

All things being equal, I am more inclined to listen to someone who is making progress consistently in the gym, and has demonstrated solid growth and development versus someone who has not and keeps telling me that what I am doing is wrong.

Quote:

You are absolutely right Wrao, but it is worth noting that research also shows that people who already have kidney problems see their issues exacerbated by high protein diets. I do acknowledge that there has been no proof to link kidney disorder (in previously healthy people) with high protein diets and should have stated earlier that this was merely my personal belief (IMO, it seems kind of obvious -- not an excuse for my terribly worded post on this point though).

I am a big believer that anything in excess is not good and I'd rather use common sense in not loading up on protein (especially in the form of questionable supplements) because, regardless of how good your kidney function is, the excess protein must be processed by your kidneys anyway.
Well that is kind of what it comes down to really. Look at it this way. If I am a lean 200 pounds and I want to be a lean 230 pounds, why would I stay with doing everything that keeps me 200 pounds? being, everything that is 100% 'safe' and 'moderate' and 'not in excess'. This is really the whole game, at least, the crux of the issue, progressively working to push yourself beyond what is baseline, that doesn't mean moar is bettar, but it does mean that you have to be willing to stand toe to toe with what you think is 'too much'. Because, at a lean 230 pounds, my body's needs are going to be significantly different than at a lean 200 pounds. Just as my body's needs are going to be progressively changing between now and then.

With all of the ways we can hurt our kidneys, I would imagine protein supplementation is pretty low on the list. Though I cannot back this up, I would also predict that if you were to ingest 400 grams of protein from whole food sources you'd be doing a lot more stress on your system than ingesting 400 grams of protein, where 50% comes from a protein supplement. Again, this is the game, it is a give and a get.
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-12-05, 22:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
Diet-wise I'd suggest whole-grain (probably hard to come by in the US), vegetables, and fatty fish. Also tap water is much better than soft drinks.
whole grain products in the US are pretty shady, by and large. It is remarkably easy for a company to get their product listed as 'whole grain', but even then, often times they are just as loaded with preservatives, sugars, coloring...etc. as anything else. Similar weirdness with the 'organic' label.
  quote
colivigan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
 
2008-12-05, 22:41

Isn't anyone going to answer scratt's snorting question?
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