I shot the sherrif.
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https://www.recode.net/2017/4/14/153...nia-dmv-permit
(well, real as in they're permitted for testing in CA now) thoughts? has this project been why Apple seems like they're dropping the ball in traditional computing markets? Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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This does not prove the "car" is real. Since the permits are for existing Lexus SUV's, it only proves that there is some real "software testing". Said testing could be for Apple Maps data, it could be for the new iTaxi service, and it could be for a software platform Apple wants to sell to existing auto makers. It could also be for Apple buses designed to deliver employees to Apple's new campus, an automated Apple computer delivery service, or any number of other things.
But, it's probably for the Apple Car. As for Apple "dropping the ball in traditional computer markets", I think that has more to do with complacency, pride, arrogance, or some combination of the three rather than other projects. Mac Pro engineers were not likely yanked off the job to go and design cars or car software, since the two have almost no similarities in design, use, or functionality. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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I shot the sherrif.
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I almost hope that the lack of luster out of the traditional Apple computing projects is related to them working on something totally great in a new market. Otherwise the lack of hardware updates and improvements are pretty embarrassing at this point. Not sure what the rolleyes are about chucker, Apple's entire computing line with the exception of the MBP has been totally neglected, and even the MBP line saw marginal improvements. Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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Sneaky Punk
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While we all agree that Macs have been ignored for the past number of years it's not all Apple's fault. They should be using the latest hardware across the line, charging top dollar for 3-6 year old hardware is just insulting. At the same time, Intel hasn't done much either, they are way more interested to the mobile space as they continue to loose hardware sales to ARM chipsets.
As for the Apple Car, meh, whatever. Would I like to see 95% of the morons on the road in self driving cars? Hell yeah, they are morons, but they are also the 95% of people who will least be able to afford a self driving car, so... |
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I shot the sherrif.
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If the Model 3 really comes in at the $30k range, that might not be true any more.
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Sneaky Punk
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There are two groups of morons on the road, luxury car owners (BMW/Audi/Lexus etc) who are too busy mucking around with phones or their hair, and people driving older sports cars and Civics from the 80-90's, early 2000's (aka self proclaimed "car guys") that treat the road as if it's their personal race track.
Group 1, gets self driving cars quickly, because social status. Group 2, not very likely, unless they are forced to. People in between will transition normally. |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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Everyone mucks around on their phones. It's more likely for lower-income people to be using their handsets than affluent car owners with hands-free integration or at least something like CarPlay or iDrive.
Let's not get into dumb stereotypes. |
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Sneaky Punk
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But it's fun to poke the bear...
Yes I know everyone messes with their phones, sadly. It's kind of a Vancouver thing, due to the extremely high percentage of people with luxury cars (even in the far reaching suburbs). I still see plenty of people messing with their phones in high end, new model cars though. I bet half of them couldn't be bothered to setup the Bluetooth, considering how many people know how to use the silence switch on their smartphones. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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With initial availability of the Model 3 as early as July, Apple is likely going to have to show their cards this fall if they plan to enter this market.
It seems to me like Apple tried very hard to enter this market, spent a ton of money, hired some of the world's best talent, and found out the hard way that designing and building a car is not an easy task, especially for a computer company. |
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I shot the sherrif.
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I was hoping it might be something cross promotional, Apple's UI in Tesla's upcoming models, but IIRC, there's been bad blood between the two companies for a while now regarding poaching auto talent.
Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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I'm still not convinced that Apple is actually working on a car. Software and AI? Yes. But, a car? I just don't think so.
If Apple wants to play with cars, they would be far better off buying Tesla or Faraday Futures and then implementing their software over time. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I'm more convinced they are trying to figure out how to sell engine upgrades from the App Store. I also don't think of them as building a physical car but rather brains for it. Think the CarPlay but on steroids. While I'm slightly joking about engine upgrades, I'm not thinking about all the other features. Like you drive into your driveway and your door unlocks and lights turn on without you telling it to do anything.
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. Last edited by turtle : 2017-04-18 at 13:17. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Which is all software-driven, and has nothing to do with wheels and engines. I suspect they are working on a "platform" to market to the auto industry. Kind of like HomeKit, HealthKit, etc. This one will be called CarKit.
- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Here's the original assertion: "Apple seems like they're dropping the ball in traditional computing markets" Yeah, OK, I get it. A dogwhistle for "ha-ha, iPhones aren't real computers". Generally speaking, as far as computers go, they're doing pretty damn good. They've been developing one of the best new programming languages, and evolving it rapidly. They, in March, shipped an entirely new file system, to hundreds of millions of devices, converting in-place, with little fanfare, and zero known cases of data loss. They have arguably the best mobile CPU, and it's looking like they're about to follow up on that in the GPU space as well. And, yes, they've gotten pretty unreliable about shipping new Macs. But as others have already pointed out, there's really two aspects to that. One is that they need to do better. (And they seem to have started acknowledging that internally and externally; cf. Mac Pro.) Beyond Jony Ive being bored because nobody will let him thinnovate the Mac Pro any more, there's little explanation for why we haven't seen more frequent updates especially in the desktop space. Mac mini, Mac Pro (obviously). Even the MacBook, for no apparent reason. The other, however, is that "traditional computing markets" have, in fact, gotten more boring. That's not all on Apple. Maybe we'll see some rejuvenation with AMD Ryzen, but I don't really see it. The 90s' days are over — the big leaps in hardware performance, the big experiments in UI paradigms? Those are taking place in mobile, and this generation's "real men don't need a GUI" greybeards need to start accepting that. |
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I shot the sherrif.
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Apple has completely dropped the ball on the Mac, Mac Mini, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro, and iMacs. Every single one is listed as "don't buy" or "wait" with the exception of the MBP which is Apple's leader at 'neutral'. The MacPro hasn't been updated in 4 YEARS. Mac mini, 2.5 YEARS. Macbook Air, 2+ YEARS etc. Quote:
Generally speaking they're doing jack shit. Specifically, outside of the mobile market and a TouchBar they haven't done a damn thing on the hardware side of the equation in years. That's inexcusable as the sole provider of hardware for your entire market. Quote:
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Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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Here's the thing, their "Traditional Computer" sales have not suffered at all in those years. There's only been a slight taper in sales since last year.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/11...id-pc-decline/ And no, the desktop/laptop market is tapped. The majority of office productivity can be done on phone/tablets. The majority of "pro" work can be done on laptops. It's been a trickle down effect. Desktop computers are like the workstations of the not so distant past, which are like the servers/HPCs of an earlier era. Deal with it. e: Think of it like this. Even if you have a use for large screen sitting on top of a desk, in 10 years what do you think will be connected (probably wirelessly) to that display? It'll probably be your phone . Last edited by Eugene : 2017-04-18 at 18:17. |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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Okay, I'll bite. CarKit would arrest too much control from the automaker while still requiring bespoke programming/design collaboration between Apple and the automaker. Also nobody really chooses a car based on who developed its autopilot...it's going to be part of a package deal. I love Apple, but I have no intention of limiting my choices to CarPlay enabled cars. The same goes for autopilot or "CarKit." Tesla is ahead of Mercedes and almost nobody else matter right now, especially Apple.
I wish we knew more about their car project...all we know is they have a less ambitious vision than before. |
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They more or less acknowledge this themselves. The Mac Pro for a while had the weird, misleading "Buy Now, Price Drop" status, which they've now changed to "Caution, Price Drop Only". The MacBook Air says "DON'T BUY" at the top, but the more detailed version says, less misleadingly, "Don't Buy Old, But Updates Unlikely". The MacBook Air is dead. It's only still around as a low-end Mac laptop option. Not a current or particularly interesting one. The iMac is arguably overdue, though there's really not that much to change about it other than upgrading to Thunderbolt 3. There's little to do about the CPUs, and they're not going to go to higher-end GPUs. The Mac mini and Mac Pro are definitely overdue. Quote:
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I realize this is terrible when you run an IT department and want to plan your next hardware purchase. Other than that, it's largely irrelevant. Quote:
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Meh. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Plus, you have to show your concept if you want to get people interested in your car. Auto design is very important to the consumer. This is why Tesla showed its Model 3 two years before even attempting delivery. Had the Model 3 been ugly as sin, sales would flop no matter what kind of super-powers it had. People like to look good in their cars! If Apple's car looks like a globe on four wheels, only Google-glass-wearing tech-nerds are going to buy one, and that's not a big enough market to justify the multi-billion dollar investment that is single-model car development. "Noises coming from a factory", engineer-poaching, and Appleinsider-says-so is not proof of car development. Hell, even Chevy can't keep the cat in the bag regarding their super-top-secret ZR-1 project, nor their even-more-top-secret c8 Corvette, or anything else for that matter. Cars must be road-tested, safety-tested, crash-tested, reliability-tested, and happy-eye-candy-consumer-tested. Established automotive manufacturers utilize top-secret test tracks (not so top secret anymore with the invention of the drone), auto-body disguises, and night testing to hide their work, and even then the secret is out long before the car is. Basically, while you can design the car in secret, build a clay model in secret, wind tunnel test it, etc., all in secret, the car must eventually go out onto some track and prove to the engineers (and the Uncle-Sam) that it can handle 70mph over smooth-ass-pavement that transitions to frost-heave-induced-pothole-crap at speed, and then slow to a screeching halt within a couple hundred feet, all while keeping its passengers tightly constrained inside their little, aluminum and glass bubble. There have been words that Apple has purchased (or leased) space for an assembling line, but that line is not going to be built in secret. Too much big-ass equipment like robots and overhead conveyor systems that at least one person is likely to photograph and/or report having seen. If they are, and they pull it off without little more than a whisper escaping the project, then they will set a new standard of secrecy within the industry that has so far been entirely unattainable. I'm not sold this is the direction Apple is headed. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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Also the taper in Mac shipments I mentioned? The rest of the industry saw even bigger declines, so clamoring for Apple to behave more like those companies is incredibly silly. Admit to yourself that desktop computing requirements haven't changed much over the past 6 years, and nor has much progress been made by chipmakers.
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I shot the sherrif.
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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/pc-ma...-2013-idc.html Chucker, not sure what your dog is in this fight, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around your defending Apple's not updating their entire computer line for multiple years. They're charging the same prices today for 2 to 4 year old hardware from two generations ago. Has Apple made any significant changes to their desktop/notebook lines in the last two years? The Touchbar is the *one* thing Apple has brought to the table that's unique in 5+ years? They haven't bothered with any new designs, or new hardware. I can't think of another period in Apple's history when things were so lackluster outside of the dark times when everyone was waiting for them to go under, and the stock was $15 a share. Where is Apple doing well these days in your mind? Because everywhere I look, they're falling on their face. (Hardware, software, design, price) Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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From the press release your article refers to:
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Overall consumers will continue to ditch the "PC" and commercial markets will eventually swap as well. |
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The other day, I listened to a tech podcast. Somewhere in, they lamented the bad shape tech journalism is in. Then, a few minutes later, they complained how boring the iPhone 7 is, and that they better come up with a massive update for the iPhone 8, OR ELSE. Or else what? My "dog in this fight" is that we're still too focused on whiz-bang features, spec-whoring and cheating on each other's benchmarks. Nobody is putting forward actual, long-term improvements to the computer experience, and other companies continue to rest in their comfy couches, knowing full well they don't actually have to innovative, because eventually Apple will do it for them, and they'll just copy the idea. (It's worked that way for two decades now, so why change?) What has changed is that Apple is less focused on making those leaps on the Mac, and more on iOS. As someone who spends an awful lot of time on a Mac, that's unfortunate. But I also understand it. Quote:
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I don't think it was a case of lackluster offerings, but rather poor curation/editing. So, if anything, it's that there was too much going on, leading to needless customer confusion. (Should I buy a Power Macintosh 7654? Or the nearly identical Performance 7653CD? Which, for no apparent reason, only ships to certain markets?) Jobs narrowed down, cut down, simplified, and eventually it became much clearer what Apple was offering, and (importantly) what they weren't offering. They're now once again on a path of becoming broader. And there's a real risk that they're spreading themselves too thin. And as someone who doesn't even have a license, the car project (if it is a thing) seems like quite an example of a silly endeavor. I'd rather they think of making their existing platforms better. I assume you're doing this "I'm going to pretend the Mac is the only platform or the only important platform" thing again, because I've already listed things like Swift, the A-series CPUs and APFS as examples of Apple doing well. |
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For the A-series, aren't a variety of hardware manufacturers using arm processors in mobile devices? I know Apple has their own special implementation, but that's another 'difference' that basically doesn't register for 95 out of 100 people. APFS is another improvement that carries little to no weight with the general public. Yay, but what does it matter in a day to day, practical how I use my device sense? It doesn't. Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me Last edited by alcimedes : 2017-04-20 at 11:14. |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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What leap in laptop or iMac design are you looking for? Touch isn't it. Nobody knows how to get touch working in the Windows or macOS desktop environments.
You keep going on and on about the general public and what they care about, but you seem the furthest removed from their actual opinions. The general public has spoken and they don't care about PCs/Macs. They're just appliances you buy when your old one fails. |
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That's like saying the Titanium PowerBook G4 increased the processor speed and dropped expansion bays. Quote:
Outside of nerd circles, your demands are meaningless. Quote:
What Eugene said. |
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I shot the sherrif.
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I'm not hoping for the general public to tell Apple what they should be working on next.
I'm waiting for the Apple of years past that would show up and wow us with what their tech can be used for. Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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