[Matsu]

If you can restrict carbs, personally I think you’re going to lose more weight lifting weights, especially if you can spend the majority of your effort on the major muscle groups in the legs and back. Lots of squats, deadlifts, pull downs and rows. But everyone is different, and everything gets boring after a while, so it’s nice to have something to pivot to when you’re feeling less enthusiastic about your workout.

[kscherer]

I think that is very true, but if you are trying to add muscle mass then restricting carbs too much is a bad idea. Your body will wind up burning protein to fuel itself, and muscle growth will be retarded as a result. There is a fine balance. The important thing is to find the right carbs. Cauliflower and soda pop are both loaded with carbs, but they are not the same thing.

[Matsu]

Yeah, and going too far with it can be dangerous too. It's different for everyone, and even for the same person it changes over time. If you got enough of a fat store, you can sustain a more aggressive start and keep it burning for a couple of months, but if you don't come into balance you either give up eventually or risk damage to organs. Get enough water, get enough potassium, eat a lot of vegetables. If I'm going to try to see about burning off about 5lbs a week for the next couple of months, and then work out the fine tuning after that...

[Ryan]

Oof. The cardio fitness rating showed up when I updated to iOS 14.3. I have a shockingly low score.

Is it okay to tell myself it’s because I live a mile above sea level?

[drewprops]

Leaping Ludovico Einaudi... I have turned into a fat gob.

The finest super dark chocolates, crazy afternoon Coke Zeros, hot and cold running potato chips, fancy Starbucks holiday drinks, and precious little exercise because I'm in self-imposed Covid lockdown jail.

And I know that I need an Apple Watch to help keep me alive, but I just HAVE to wait until this fall when the new one comes out.

...

[Matsu]

This guy inspired me to attempt a variation on the theme whilst I am on work from home for another 6 months or so, but only during waking/working hours. Maybe a km every hour for 10 hours, and working my way up to a mile. Seems interesting

A Different kind of Marathon

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Matsu Yeah, and going too far with it can be dangerous too. It's different for everyone, and even for the same person it changes over time. If you got enough of a fat store, you can sustain a more aggressive start and keep it burning for a couple of months, but if you don't come into balance you either give up eventually or risk damage to organs. Get enough water, get enough potassium, eat a lot of vegetables. If I'm going to try to see about burning off about 5lbs a week for the next couple of months, and then work out the fine tuning after that...

Yeah, getting the veggies and enough protein into the mix aren't as easy as it sounds, especially when you also need a bunch of carbs and yada yada yada.

Turns out, there are lots of veggies that are loaded with carbs. Again, I've been using Lose It, and there's just no way my stupid brain would be able to figure a lot of this stuff without that kind of help. Just yesterday I was trying to figure out how to get more carbs into my diet without drinking Coke, and realized through the app that cauliflower and broccoli are both carb-heavy. Yay me!

But, you have to cook that stuff in advance or it's like gnawing your way through a wood fence.

[turtle]

I'm still planning to do my core strength routine three times a week while doing the cardio the other 4 days.

Incline flies, pull downs, lunges, curls, wall sit (2 minutes) are my normal strength loop and I do three sets of 15 reps other than the wall sit. I start off with crunches and plank for 2 minutes.

[Bryson]

I noticed a little logo on our treadmill yesterday, for "iFit.com". I looked it up and they have an app that lets you match incline changes to maps, do workouts created by a trainer and so on. So I tried to connect it. Turns out, our treadmill is so old that I have the previous version of this technology that relies on....a 3.5mm jack to a CD-i machine, with a special disk. Needless to say, I've gone back to manual...

[Ryan]

I found a local personal chef who started a home meal delivery business. My first delivery appeared on my doorstep at 7am this morning.

12 paleo meals a week. My biggest enemy is my own laziness (and delivery services) so this is an experiment to remove that excuse.

[turtle]

Heh, my treadmill has a "Passport" that you can plug into a TV and then follow along on paths and trails and such. We haven't bought it because the sales guy was railing about how bad the connection and experience was.

I don't really want to talk about my meals yet. I know it is why I've not progressed in my weight loss like I think I should. I don't eat much refined sugars at all. I can't say none, just not much at all. It is all those other carbs that get me though. Way more carbs than protein. I'm working my way back to where I need to be, paleo is amazing but not cheap either.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by turtle I don't really want to talk about my meals yet. I know it is why I've not progressed in my weight loss like I think I should. I don't eat much refined sugars at all. I can't say none, just not much at all. It is all those other carbs that get me though. Way more carbs than protein. I'm working my way back to where I need to be, paleo is amazing but not cheap either.

Menus are hard if you can't get the entire family on board. I've tried, with no success. I'm sad about that. When you've lived 25 years on a high-carb/fat diet, it's really difficult to get away from it. Whether it's addiction or comfort, I don't know, but I cannot get my family to swing. They just won't.

I will continue to eat what I eat, and will continue to fight against the urges.

It sucks, and that last ten pounds of belly fat is harder because of it.

[Yontsey]

I just weighed myself Wednesday and I dropped 5lbs between Thanksgiving and then. That was with drinking beer, eating pizza, tacos, chipotle, pasta, and a lot of bourbon. If you put in the work, you can eat whatever you want. I am about 4.5lbs away from my High School Senior year Football weight and since January 2015, I'm down 57lbs.

I am conscious about what I eat and try and eat pretty healthy during the week and cut corners where I can but what I'm saying is just put in the work and eat watch what you eat and you don't have to worry about diets and fads.

[turtle]

I can lose 47lbs on the Krispy Kreme diet! YAY!

Ok, I know I know. I will say it is true though. My weight it slowly going down and I'm not really eating all that great. Not horrible, just nothing a trainer would be happy about. My biggest thing is getting the portion sizes right. I'm not even talking diet portioned, just not half the pizza when we have one kind of thing.

I don't portion my protein at all, If I could put down a 16oz steak then all the better. It is more limiting the carbs/starches. Snacks being limited to an actual serving size or less. It is those little foxes that are making it take longer for me.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Yontsey I just weighed myself Wednesday and I dropped 5lbs between Thanksgiving and then. That was with drinking beer, eating pizza, tacos, chipotle, pasta, and a lot of bourbon. If you put in the work, you can eat whatever you want. I am about 4.5lbs away from my High School Senior year Football weight and since January 2015, I'm down 57lbs. I am conscious about what I eat and try and eat pretty healthy during the week and cut corners where I can but what I'm saying is just put in the work and eat watch what you eat and you don't have to worry about diets and fads.

This is absolutely true. Losing weight is all about calorie deficit. If you are burning more calories than you are taking in, then your weight will drop regardless your dietary choices.

I am pretty certain that the best weight-loss plan is to determine your ideal BMI, figure out the best caloric intake for that BMI, and then just eat that while performing moderate exercise. Eventually, you will reach that BMI (although it may take a while to get there). At first, you will lose weight very rapidly, but then the losses will begin to taper off. But, you will certainly get where you are going.

If you want to move it along faster, then you just eat less and/or exercise more.

However, one must be careful to balance their diet. You can still lose weight on the pizza and calzone diet if you exercise enough to put yourself into a calorie deficit. However, you may find yourself in an unhealthy state as a result.

I know that the last ten pounds I need to take off is all dependent on that deficit, but it's hard to add muscle and burn fat at the same time while maintaining a deficit. The balance is crazy hard to find. I don't want to burn protein for fuel (which can include burning off muscle). I want to add muscle, which requires tons of protein and carbs, with a moderate amount of fat. But then that fat intake wants to go right back to the gut. It's frustrating as hell!

[kscherer]

There is a comedian named Brian Regan who did a skit on underwear flaps (Nunchucks and Flamethrowers, 2017, Netflix) and I laughed my overweight ass off at the way he described a man's overhanging belly causing his underwear elastic flap to snap over. I thought it was so funny, and then I realized the truth of it as I watched my underwear constantly flapping over!

Anyway, not long before I started my weight-loss project I weighed in at 198 pounds and, yes, my underwear flapped over!

This past Monday—January 25—I weighed in just like I do every Monday, and I tipped the scales at 173. So, I'm down 25 pounds! My target is 165 (which I aim to hit before I really start pressing for muscle growth). The past three weeks I've cut out the weight lifting and am just walking and eating almost enough to sustain 3 grasshoppers and a small mouse. I'm hungry as hell, but I've knocked off 7 pounds in two weeks, and I really want that last 8!

I absolutely cannot wait for 165, because in order to build muscle you have to have a calorie surplus and that means I get to start eating again*.

Yay, food!

* Healthy, of course. Are donuts healthy?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by kscherer * Healthy, of course. Are donuts healthy?

For the mind? Quite!

[Yontsey]

Originally Posted by kscherer There is a comedian named Brian Regan who did a skit on underwear flaps (Nunchucks and Flamethrowers, 2017, Netflix) and I laughed my overweight ass off at the way he described a man's overhanging belly causing his underwear elastic flap to snap over. I thought it was so funny, and then I realized the truth of it as I watched my underwear constantly flapping over! Anyway, not long before I started my weight-loss project I weighed in at 198 pounds and, yes, my underwear flapped over! This past Monday—January 25—I weighed in just like I do every Monday, and I tipped the scales at 173. So, I'm down 25 pounds! My target is 165 (which I aim to hit before I really start pressing for muscle growth). The past three weeks I've cut out the weight lifting and am just walking and eating almost enough to sustain 3 grasshoppers and a small mouse. I'm hungry as hell, but I've knocked off 7 pounds in two weeks, and I really want that last 8! I absolutely cannot wait for 165, because in order to build muscle you have to have a calorie surplus and that means I get to start eating again*. Yay, food! * Healthy, of course. Are donuts healthy?

Congrats dude!!! Go get some damn donuts!!!

[Bryson]

It's not "Xxx-treme weight loss!!!111!!!1xxx!!!" but I'm down 15lb since the beginning of December, so that's good. I feel like it's more likely to stick if it happens at a bit more of a leisurely pace. All I'm doing is eating about 1500 calories a day Mon-Thurs, not eating anything 8pm to 12 noon and trying to keep under 2400 on the weekend. I'm also trying to reduce bread/potatoes and pasta, but that's harder to do without making entirely different meals just for me, which I don't really have time for.

Oh, and making sure I actually hit my steps target for the day, every damn day. (Harder than it looks given the amount of ice outside! I just got a TV installed in front of the treadmill so my routine is now one episode of bad 90's/00's sci-fi while jogging.)

Got busted at the docs as they did a CT scan (for something else entirely) and looking at it the doc said: "That's a big ol' liver you got there, son."

[turtle]

Amazing work Ken! Good job!

I have finally stated staying under 190. I've gone as low as 187 but hover at 188 right now. I still haven't heavily modified my diet. I am doing a legit 30 minute workout a day though. Most of the time it is body weight/cardio but I still do weights three times a week. I would like to get down to 170 or so.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Yontsey Congrats dude!!! Go get some damn donuts!!!

Originally Posted by turtle Amazing work Ken! Good job!

Thanks, guys.

Originally Posted by turtle I would like to get down to 170 or so.

Keep working at it. It's not easy.

The last two weeks I have been pushing 1000 calories/day M, W, Th, F. I've been trying to skip breakfast and lunch on Tuesdays because Tuesday is date night and I tend to splurge. Friday evening has been the hardest. After the work week I like to binge on the beerskies, but I've been limiting to 2. Saturday I skip lunch, and Sunday I eat when I'm hungry since I'm generally laboring about the house with chores and can get quite tired.

I really want to make my 165 goal, so I've been pushing hard through the week to keep my calorie deficit as low as I [un]comfortably can. I've decided to take Yontsey's advice and get me a donut, but not until I hit that 165 goal. Then I'm gonna have a celebration donut (or three ) and figure out how to get in a small one once per week as I work on gaining 10 pounds of muscle, which will require a calorie surplus. Looking forward to that stretch, because as long as I eat healthy I can pretty much fill my belly.

Still trying to figure out how to get 130 grams of protein/day for that bit, though.

Protein drink pre-workout = 22 grams
Ground beef/eggs post-workout = 20 grams
Salmon for lunch = 30 grams
Protein drink for snack = 22 grams
Chicken breast with dinner = 15 grams

Total = 109 grams.

Other random stuff in there might add 10-20 grams.

I used a muscle weight gain calculator and it says that I need 89 carbs, 124 protein, and 63 fat for a muscle-building stretch. Obviously it doesn't have to be exact, but getting anywhere close to those numbers means lots and lots of food!

[turtle]

I think my real goal is getting my body fat between 10-15%. I was closer to 10% in my "prime" while in the Navy. For now that starts with weight loss, but I'm also trying to make sure that I work something that is consistent and sustainable. If I eat Atkins/Paleo I end up dropping fat like a mad man... until I even look at a starch.

I will say, working out every day had me tired of being sore. I am sure I'll be better conditioned to it over time, but I really have been sore consistently.

[kscherer]

The latest thing that I learned is that you need to either pick bulking or cutting. That is to say, you need to decide whether to lose weight or gain muscle. Doing both at the same time is quite hard, and I wish I had learned it a lot sooner. That's actually why I have been losing more the past few weeks.

When bulking, you need to eat at a calorie surplus to sustain muscle growth and conditioning. When cutting, you need to "cut" dietary intake and hold a sustainable calorie deficit to shed more fat. This is why I've recently changed my goals. I want to cut off the fat and make 165, then build back up to 175 while eating healthy and working out to build muscle mass.

If you attempt to both cut and bulk at the same time, it requires a lot of dietary supplementation and doesn't work for most people.

My advice would be to cut out the weight lifting, drop your calories to 1500/day or less, and suffer for a few weeks until you reach your target. Then, you get to eat well while you shift back to weights and strength training.

I hit that stupid 180lb barrier and couldn't get below it for months until I shifted strategies, and then I dropped 7 pounds in 2 weeks! It's quite uncomfortable, but I have seen more progress in a shorter period because of that switch.

Also, some things to consider:

1) For the average person, 2000 calories is the equivalent of 1 pound of body weight. So, to lose a pound in a week you need to have a weekly calorie deficit of 2000, or about 285 calories/day.

2) As I understand it, if you're drastically overweight and don't want to wind up with loose skin bags hanging from your body, you need to take this stuff quite slow. Like, 1-2 pounds per week. That gives your body time to absorb excess tissues. That means losing 100-200 pounds of fat in a healthy manner could take 1-2 years or longer! Patience is a virtue.

[turtle]

Interesting. I hate being hungry. I was a starving junior sailor once but they even fed me on the ship so I always ate something. I get "hangry" even. That wouldn't be uncomfortable for just me but my whole family too.

I'll consider something like that. I know if I just do cardio (running, fast walking, rowing, etc.) if tend to slim up quickly. I could be willing to cut out weights for a couple of weeks and replace with cardio.

[kscherer]

Well, you can work out all you want so long as you maintain that deficit. Every calorie you take in over your maintenance level (which varies from person) must be burnt off or it's converted to fat. So, if you need 2000 calories for maintenance, and you take in 2500, then you have to find a way to burn off 500 calories to avoid gaining roughly .25 pounds of fat.

Interesting tidbit: The reason the recommended number of daily steps is 10,000 is that 10,000 steps burns roughly 400-500 calories, and the average American eats about 500 calories more than they need each day.

So, those 10,000 steps are what we need just to maintain weight, not to lose it! If you want to lose weight in America, then you need to eat less or exercise more while still getting those 10,000 steps.

[turtle]

This makes sense to me. My only concern is the supposed "starvation mode" your body goes into when you cut calories too far for any length of time where it then holds onto what it gets when you start to eat again. I have never personally looked it up, but always avoided drastic calorie cuts because of this concept that might be an old wives' tale.

I mean, I could do the Twinkies and Dorito diet right?

He supplemented his diet with a multivitamin, a serving of vegetables and a protein shake, and stayed away from meats to keep his caloric intake below 1800 per day (he was consuming over 2600 per day before the experiment.) Haub began his junk food diet with little expectations but kept it up as he saw that the pounds were falling off. The weird thing is that eating foods that are believed to be "bad" for you actually improved his health.

I will say, we have almost identical physical measurements (other than you've lost more weight than I have so far) so I could theoretically go right off of your numbers.

Oh, and I have to say that while my weight hasn't dropped drastically at all, my pants are loose and my Watch band has to be tightened by one notch! I haven't worn a collared shirt in a year I think so I have no idea what my neck comparison is to my heavy days.

[kscherer]

"Starvation mode" is different than "eating less".

I've read that in certain circumstances your body will burn muscle and store fat, but I think that is only if you don't get enough protein and carbs in your diet. A high-fat diet without enough support from carbs and protein will result in your body burning protein for energy. Or something like that.

As far as the clothes size thing, I went through the same period where I didn't seem to be losing much weight but my clothes were getting too big. I bought new pants due to a size reduction for the first time in my life, and my work shirts are all like curtains on me now. My face, chest, waist, gut and arms all show the loss of fat. I used to be a cyclist so my legs are like tree stumps and have very little fat on them.

I feel like I'm almost down another inch on my waist, but I don't want to buy new clothes again, especially as I plan to work on muscle gain and that could size me back up a bit.

But, yeah, it's a weird cycle.

[Mac+]

Really impressed with your weight loss and fitness routines Ken, Tony, and Yontsey! Congratulations! 👏💪

I’m gradually returning to exercise and am watching what I eat now, too, so this is timely for me. 🙂

[Brad]

Originally Posted by kscherer The latest thing that I learned is that you need to either pick bulking or cutting. That is to say, you need to decide whether to lose weight or gain muscle. Doing both at the same time is quite hard, and I wish I had learned it a lot sooner. That's actually why I have been losing more the past few weeks. When bulking, you need to eat at a calorie surplus to sustain muscle growth and conditioning. When cutting, you need to "cut" dietary intake and hold a sustainable calorie deficit to shed more fat. This is why I've recently changed my goals. I want to cut off the fat and make 165, then build back up to 175 while eating healthy and working out to build muscle mass. If you attempt to both cut and bulk at the same time, it requires a lot of dietary supplementation and doesn't work for most people.

What you're talking about at the end here is what people call "recomp", short for "body recomposition", which yes is really hard to pull off and not a realistic path for most people. It is technically possible to gain muscle while losing fat on a calorie deficit, and I've seen a few success stories, but the overwhelming majority of what I've read says that you have to have a very disciplined workout regimen and genetics and hormones (and age ) still play a big factor in it. Unfortunately, the old tried and true "bulking and cutting cycle" is the best solution in the long term for most people trying to change their bodies.

Originally Posted by kscherer 1) For the average person, 2000 calories is the equivalent of 1 pound of body weight. So, to lose a pound in a week you need to have a weekly calorie deficit of 2000, or about 285 calories/day.

Strictly speaking, one pound of fat equals 3500 calories (plus or minus about a hundred). This is where the common recommendation of a 500 cal/day deficit to achieve a healthy and sustainable 1 lb/week fat loss comes from. Of course, as you lose fat, there is also water weight/retention that fluctuates along the way, making the science of tracking a little fuzzier if you're only looking at your scale. Folks who are really into the numbers go out for DEXA scans and O2/CO2 measurements to get precise data for their fat/muscle/etc. density over time.

[kscherer]

A video I watched yesterday confirmed a thought I had almost a year ago when I started this: Don't look at your weight every day! It can fluctuate a pound or two from day to day just from water retention alone. Check it once per week (I check every Monday first thing, before I eat or start any routine, and always wearing the same getup—my workout clothes add about 2 pounds to the scale, but I prefer the consistency and don't want my daughter catching me in my skivvies ).

Brad, thanks for the clarification on the calories/pound thing. I got my numbers from a Men's Journal article I read last year when I first started out, but IIRC it was a "sort-of/averages may vary" article. But, it was still the focus of my first efforts. Where I fell down was in trying to put on a bunch of new muscle while trying to lose weight. The two are not synonymous with each other. In fact, muscle is denser and heavier than fat, so a person can get caught in a vicious cycle trying to do both. Again, this is why I have recently changed strategies: Get rid of the fat; grow muscle (which will also grow some fat); get rid of the fat; grow more muscle; wash, rinse, repeat.