[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Roboman Am I the only one who thinks the new Buick look is incredibly...blah? To use a term I read in MT once, it looks Asianonymous. I know that they want to be "America's Lexus" but that doesn't mean they have to make it look so...generic. I mean, the Regal doesn't even have the "sweepspear" character line. If you showed me just the C-pillar, I'd think it was a Nissan. They went from looking ugly to looking just like tons of other cars. Less offensive, but not a huge improvement. But I guess Buick is going to be their "safe and boring" alternative to edgy Cadillac? Why do they need to have a "safe and boring" division? There's plenty of "safe and boring" luxury cars.

Why would they design a Buick trait into the Opel Insignia OPC? From what I hear, the 2.0T may not make it into the GS as it is just a show car. It may be the 2.8T that is in the Insigna OPC that makes 325 HP when/if it makes production.


I still wish this was the Saturn Aura/ Aura Redline instead.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Quagmire I still wish this was the Saturn Aura/ Aura Redline instead.

Me too.

For anyone out there in the market, now is a supergood time to buy a Saturn Astra or somesuch. They're discounting them hugely. The catch is that, technically, the new vehicles are now being sold as "used," since the dealers are now officially the first owners. But if you don't mind that...

I'm still a little sad I'll never be able to get a Sky. Poor Saturn...the American revolution that wasn't. *tear*

[Quagmire]

2011 Chevrolet Aveo RS Concept.










http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...concept-87774/

[Maciej]

Vomit.

[Robo]

Ahaha, I knew you would post that as soon as the embargo broke. Six minutes, not bad...of course, it did leak earlier today...but I wasn't going to spoil your fun.

It looks like an improvement, but I'm still not digging the huge grille. And we need a new Aveo now. The current one dates back to the 2004 model year, and it wasn't even that good then.

Originally Posted by Jalopnik The problem with the current Aveo is its crushing mediocrity. There's nothing outright bad about the car, but nothing very good about it either. GM's planning on upending that mediocrity with the next Aveo, moving the car onto a bigger platform, giving it some aggression and actually styling the interior.

Wait...so it's bigger...but still B-segment? Is that right? Is there really going to be that much space between the Spark (which seems larger than A-segment) and the Cruze (C-segment)? Redundancy FTL.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Roboman Ahaha, I knew you would post that as soon as the embargo broke. Six minutes, not bad...of course, it did leak earlier today...but I wasn't going to spoil your fun. It looks like an improvement, but I'm still not digging the huge grille. And we need a new Aveo now. The current one dates back to the 2004 model year, and it wasn't even super good then.

I can assume the production Aveo will be on sale by the fall as it is a 2011 MY vehicle. This is fairly close to the production vehicle minus some body work and 19" wheels. Oh and that leather wrapped interior most likely as well.

Oh and I did forget to show off the CTS-V Coupe.







http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...v-coupe-87614/

[BuonRotto]

I thought the Cruze was replacing the Aveo? Or the Spark? Is GM splitting hairs with their car model segments or what?! Guh, one of the first things I would have done is simplify the product line. Just because Audi and others are making this mistake and haven't been hurt too much by it... yet, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Iago]

I normally walk or take the underground, but if not, I use my mother's 2008 Range Rover Sport. Did you ever play that N64 racing game Roadsters Trophy? The car shadows were screwed and it looked like you were floating above the track. That's how it feels to drive the Range Rover. I think she had some modifications done because she wanted to one-up one of her idiot friends, but you can't tell. In general I'm an anxious driver, so it's happy chance that I'm also a fitness chappy who can legitimately claim to enjoy walking

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto I thought the Cruze was replacing the Aveo? Or the Spark? Is GM splitting hairs with their car model segments or what?! Guh, one of the first things I would have done is simplify the product line. Just because Audi and others are making this mistake and haven't been hurt too much by it... yet, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Cruze is replacing Cobalt. Aveo is Aveo. Spark is the Smart car competitor.

[Matsu]

I'm routinely surprised by what people think looks good or doesn't in a car. That Lincoln from the previous page is in fact quite interesting. It could look good as a Saab or a new age Citreon DS. Citroen's own new age DSs look hideous, as does that Cadillac Cein mid-engine monstrosity from the previous page. The CTS doesn't quite translate to 2 door form, maybe it's the slab sides and high beltline - it's kinda like a Cadillac GTO, not quite there. That Aveo ain't no Golf/Polo - hotwheels were fun when I was a kid, but they only looked good in actual pocket sized dimensions, not in a full size car, even a small one.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Matsu I'm routinely surprised by what people think looks good or doesn't in a car. That Lincoln from the previous page is in fact quite interesting. It could look good as a Saab or a new age Citreon DS. Citroen's own new age DSs look hideous, as does that Cadillac Cein mid-engine monstrosity from the previous page. The CTS doesn't quite translate to 2 door form, maybe it's the slab sides and high beltline - it's kinda like a Cadillac GTO, not quite there. That Aveo ain't no Golf/Polo - hotwheels were fun when I was a kid, but they only looked good in actual pocket sized dimensions, not in a full size car, even a small one.

Me too. A person on another forum finds the Camry to be amazing and "sporty" looking.

The CTS Coupe looks IMHO pretty good in person. Now this is just the concept when I went to the British Auto Show, but the production CTS Coupe is not that different from it.



On another subject, anyone see the last episode of Top Gear? They couldn't admit the Vauxhall Insignia VXR was a good car. They somewhat did, but they decided to bore the crap out of people with that road sign BS so maybe people wouldn't notice they said the VXR was a good car.

[Maciej]

Originally Posted by Quagmire On another subject, anyone see the last episode of Top Gear? They couldn't admit the Vauxhall Insignia VXR was a good car. They somewhat did, but they decided to bore the crap out of people with that road sign BS so maybe people wouldn't notice they said the VXR was a good car.

I haven't watched it much this season. It felt too scripted, I know a lot of people jav had that complaint. I am planning on catching up as soon as my comp gets back from Apple tho.

[addison]

In the latest installment of the never ending Saab saga...it looks like a private equity firm involving F1 chief Bernie Ecclestone might bid. Maybe he should concentrate on making Formula 1 something more than a cure for insomnia than buying a dead company. GM is smartly moving to liquidate despite these bids which probably can't get financing. It's time for Saab to disappear. They haven't designed their own car since the 99/900. Thirty years of rebadges and reskins have killed the brand. Selling down market cars at luxury car prices was never a good strategy.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/spy...k=MW_news_stmp

[Kickaha]

Downmarket masquerading as luxury? Sounds like Ecclestone all over it.

[Robo]

I like the CTS coupe too, but not as much as I like the sportwagon. I'd take a CTS-V wagon in an instant (I know I'm probably one of the only ones...).

Also, I normally don't like SUVs or crossovers but for some reason I'm loving the new SRX. It's less wagonlike than the old one, so one would think I would like it less, but I'm totally in love with its new stance. I just wish it came in an ER-EV version, like the Provoq concept (or at least a hybrid version, like the Lexus RX). Instead, they make a hybrid Escalade...what's the point?

[PB PM]

Any thoughts on the new KIA/Hyundai hybrids? Looks like they will be the cheapest hybrids on the market, when they become available .

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by Quagmire 2011 Chevrolet Aveo RS Concept.

That's odd, that's the Melbourne skyline. I wonder why it's in Melbourne (or is that a photoshop job?). We don't even have Chevrolet's here, much less left-hand drives... Although it might end up here rebadged as a Holden. We don't even have a GM holden production plant here.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Roboman I like the CTS coupe too, but not as much as I like the sportwagon. I'd take a CTS-V wagon in an instant (I know I'm probably one of the only ones...). Also, I normally don't like SUVs or crossovers but for some reason I'm loving the new SRX. It's less wagonlike than the old one, so one would think I would like it less, but I'm totally in love with its new stance. I just wish it came in an ER-EV version, like the Provoq concept (or at least a hybrid version, like the Lexus RX). Instead, they make a hybrid Escalade...what's the point?

Don't get me started on the SRX.... POS FWD and now as reviews are out, POS 3.0 DI V6. Fix the two problems of the 1st gen, but ruin the reason why the 1st gen won C&D best luxury SUV for 3 years in a row and came in second in a comparison in 2007 only beaten by the MDX.

[addison]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Downmarket masquerading as luxury? Sounds like Ecclestone all over it.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Downmarket masquerading as luxury? Sounds like Ecclestone all over it.

[Quagmire]

GM finally released a picture of the interior of the CTS-V Coupe.

[Robo]

Quag, do you know what the V (in CTS-V, &c.) stands for?

I know there isn't an actual "V Division" within GM, like M-Technik or AMG. It's just a performance sub-brand, like the Lexus F-marque. But I was still wondering if it had any meaning, or if it was just chosen because it sounded/looked edgy and suggested performance.

If not, I'm nominating Viggen. *tear*

[Quagmire]

V doesn't mean a thing.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Quagmire V doesn't mean a thing.

It could mean anything, then. It could mean that a victorious vegetarian viking is vexed. But I say it means Viggen.

[Robo]

Speaking of Cadillac...ATS? Converj? Something else?

I can't wait for either car. But I'm not exactly sure what place the Converj is suppose to hold in the line-up? If it's just "the ER-EV Cadillac," couldn't they just make an ATS-E or something? It seems like they would go for a unique body style, too, since they already have the CTS coupe. To me, the name suggests either one of those "four-door coupes" that are all the rage these days (the convergence of a coupe and sedan) or a hard-top convertible (the convergence of a coupe and a convertible) but the concept was neither. So I guess we'll see.

Of course, the name will probably change to something like "VRJ" by the time it's released (Voltec Racing Jalopy?), so what "Converj" suggests may well be irrelevant. In any case, I hope it stays super-edgy and low-slung and sporty, something that would take the place of the XLR. A Z Series to the CTS coupe's 6 Series.

Either that, or a fastback or shooting brake, something like an electric Scirocco. Ooh.

Am I the only one who's annoyed that the automotive press got to see the ATS (or a styling example, anyway) six months ago and we aren't even going to see it at NAIAS (probably)? Cadillac is sort of taking their time with their turnaround, no? I mean, I know GM has been having financial troubles, but they've delayed the ATS, et al so many times. By the time the ATS and XTS hit (2012?), we'll need a new (or at least mid-cycle-refreshed) CTS to accompany them! Hopefully, that's the plan.

Still not a fan of the XTS moniker. In alphanumeric parlance, X = crossover/SUV. Sure, there was the XLR, but that's obviously a sort of pun ("accelerate"), as well as its own...thing. If it's supposed to stand for "Extended Touring Sedan," why not "ETS"? Makes sense, as the successor to the DTS, and then you'd have a nice ATS/CTS/ETS thing going.

But then again, Cadillac's whole nomenclature is a mess. You have the Catera Touring Sedan...coupe. And you still have the Escalade, which doesn't fit in at all (but of course they'll never change it). I get that "CTS coupe" has more name recognition than "CTC" would, but I still find it irksome

They're miles ahead of Lincoln, though, who went through four different alphanumeric schemes in about as many years. And "CTS" still rolls off the tongue far easier than "MKZ." What were they thinking?

And yes, I know all my posts turn into rants about naming. But if you're going to try and have a cohesive naming scheme, you have to be cohesive, you have to do it right. MKT? WTF is that shit?

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman Quag, do you know what the V (in CTS-V, &c.) stands for?

Originally Posted by Quagmire V doesn't mean a thing.

Originally Posted by Roboman It could mean anything, then.

Larry David: So, this is the GTS model...
Customer: What does GTS stand for?
Larry David: Uh... Guaranteed Tremendous Safety...
Customer: Oh. So what does the GT model stand for? Just Guaranteed Tremendous?
Larry David: Uh... yes...

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Roboman Speaking of Cadillac...ATS? Converj? Something else?

A lot of people are saying its fake. Notice the passenger rear wheel or lack there of.....

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Quagmire A lot of people are saying its fake. Notice the passenger rear wheel or lack there of.....

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted it. Oh well. It doesn't change anything, about me wanting to see the ATS

Originally Posted by Iago Larry David: So, this is the GTS model... Customer: What does GTS stand for? Larry David: Uh... Guaranteed Tremendous Safety... Customer: Oh. So what does the GT model stand for? Just Guaranteed Tremendous? Larry David: Uh... yes...

Some people hate the alphanumeric nomenclature that it seems like every luxury automaker is adopting (except, notably, Buick and Mercury, both of which are intended to be softer antecedents to the more hard-edged Cadillac and Lincoln). I'll be honest -- I don't. In fact, I think "aspirational" car names are kind of silly. Regal? LeSabre? Lucerne? I'm not trying to hate on just Buick here, but there's nothing "regal" about a low-end Buick. Or even a high-end one, for that matter.

I prefer alphanumeric nomenclature...when it makes sense. BMW and M-B have been at it the longest, and have the benefit of owning individual numbers (BMW) or letters (M-B). Everybody else needs to use multiple letters (ES), multiple numbers (9-5), or a combination (A4), but that's okay -- probably a good thing, because it helps each "scheme" be ownable. (In other words, when you hear of a sedan labeled [something]TS, you know it's a Cadillac, without even hearing the make.)

The important thing is that designations A) are consistent, B) are identified with the brand and C) give a clear sense of progression, from lowest-end to highest. BMW, Audi, and Saab are the best at this, as they have the benefit of a progression of numerals paired with, in the case of Audi and Saab, universally reconizable prefixes ("A" and "9-", of course). M-B requires you to know their class designations but it's mostly alphabetical, from worst to best (as is Cadillac).

But then there's Lexus. Quick, arrange these Lexus models in order from lowest-end to highest: ES, GS, HS, IS, LS. That's not it, though that's the alphabetical arrangement. Only people who "know" Lexus are going to get the hierarchy, but everybody knows a 7 Series is better than a 3 Series. Thus, Lexus fails at the third requirement. Acura does too. (They have other problems, which I won't get into here. No, their new corporate grille isn't what I meant ).

Lincoln fails at everything. First of all, they are just now arriving at a scheme that is consistent, and still not completely (Navigator and Town Car still exist). They've used, again, four different schemes in recent memory, and their first attempt at an alphanumeric name was the short-lived Lincoln LS. Yes, they straight-up ripped the name of the flagship Lexus. So they fail at the second requirement, because nobody ever hears "LS" and thinks "Lincoln." After "LS," they had "Mark [something]," which I would have stayed with...and then "MK[something]," pronounced "Mark something," and then "MK[something]," pronounced "Emm-Kay-something." Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't t?

Anyway, I'll shut up now. In short, Japanese automakers are good at lots of things but alphanumeric designations aren't one of them, and Lincoln fails at life. That is all.

[Quagmire]

Woot! Converj has been green lighted.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...00119990/1115#

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Quagmire Woot! Converj has been green lighted. http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...00119990/1115#

I thought it was greenlighted before? Maybe that was just a rumor.

"After 2012," though...I hope he means after the 2012 model year (which, to be fair, is already looking sort of crowded for Cadillac...XTS, maybe ATS?), and not after the year 2012. I'd like to see in released no later than calendar year 2012 (2013 MY).

And I get what he says, about needing to "slot it into" the line-up. It's like what I was just saying -- it'll have to be something unique, not just an electric CTS coupe.

Anyway, NAIAS starts in just a few hours...embargoes might expire at midnight on Monday, so about an hour from now? Exciting. Chrysler has a whole lotta nothin' -- people on Jalopnik are freaking out over all the special editions of dated models, but I'm like...it's going to take time to turn them around. Quick, cheap cash-ins on old models are, well, quick and cheap cash-ins. I hope it keeps them afloat long enough for us to see some new models.

(I would be remiss to not mention that Chrysler Group actually has improved many of their models for 2010, making many options standard and redesigning their often lackluster interiors.)

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who cares to see Chrysler turn around. It's not out of any sort of loyalty, I'd just like, y'know, a thriving American auto industry. And I think it'd be nice to see Chrysler be an actual luxury marque, instead of just a sort-of-upmarket Dodge.