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is God dark matter...or is dark matter God?


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is God dark matter...or is dark matter God?
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thegelding
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2007-02-16, 12:06

mmm, haven't seen that...will take a look...

this isn't about monetary gain...DMG knows I have very little chance of making anything off of this...

but i will add to my pledge of not getting rich or abusing my power sexually and other ways...i pledge never to have more than one house, and that one house will not be more than 3000 square feet big (with my current house becoming an empty nest house this year, heck the 2000 square feet we have seems too big)...

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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thegelding
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2007-02-16, 14:00

mmm, wrote my sister in law who is a paid web monkey for some help:

her reply...hope she doesn't mind me posting her email to me

On Friday, February 16, 2007, at 11:28AM, <s.....net> wrote:
>too much....quickest, free-est way to get a "place" might be to go to Blogger or Typepad or somesuch...you could get darkmattergod.[blogplace].com and then start a-writing.
>
>For shopping cart, guest book, forum type stuff you can go to Fatcow -- for like $99 you can get a site, register domain, and set up all that other stuff. That's where ----.com is -- if you really want to build something real...
>
>metaphysical...
>
>S

my reply back to her:

something real?

heck i'm thinking of starting a whole freakin religion...just hoping not to be crucified...

will need to find out tax exempt stuff, look for a church etc etc...

will need somebody who can write grants or "money begs"...what rich person or group might be interested in backing an effort to combine science and religion into a blend that helps all of mankind?? how do we sell it, promote it, get it out to the people??

g

(edit...sell sounds bad...how do we grow it would be better...not that "sell" is wrong...all religion "sells" itself...it has to get the people to want it)

so my question is the same to all of you...thoughts on how to get this rolling? best sites to use, etc.

don't need a ton of money to get this started, but i would need quite a bit more to get it really out in the world and to also have a physical church...

this won't happen in a day...but over a couple of years i can see it growing (if done well)...if i could find somebody like SJ or Gates to back me it would grow much much quicker...maybe if i can get Bono to wear a DMG tshirt the next time he makes a speech at the United Nations or something....

mmmm, this is gonna tear into my wii time...

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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Doxxic
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2007-03-08, 09:00

Found a great article about how some try to explain the existence of belief in God as a natural phenomenon.

It's very much how I look at it. Especially because it's neither written from a religious, an atheist or even a skeptical point of view.
The basic premise is that religion is there and so is natural selection and the question is how religion can be there if it's so irrational.

From all the theories mentioned in the article, my prefered one is this.
Humans, and probably mammals in some cases, make some innate assumptions about the world we live in, which increase our chances to survive - even while those assumptions often lead to wrong perceptions of the world. The reason they still exist is that they lead to right perceptions in situations where that's vital.
* When something happens, a being might be nearby. We think so because that saves lives, even if we're wrong.
* Important events follow from specific situations. The reason we think so is that prejudice usually doesn't kill you, while being incautious may. It's healthy to assume causality by default.
* We assume beings have intentions. Cats have theories about what their prey is going to do, humans have theories about how other people think. The belief that we have souls is innate, and supported by us "hearing" ourselves think.
These three mechanisms are already visible in my 2.5 year old daughter. And she doesn't seperate them. When a bike lies on the ground, she knows this has been caused by the wind. She thinks the wind does that intentionally. When she has the telephone, she wants to talk with the wind.

Thus, humans are biologically inclined to see spirits in ourselves, eachother, and nature, behaving according to their own assumed psychology.

Add to this our innate reality-exceeding optimism, which causes us to gamble, discover continents and fly to the moon (somehow I found myself thinking of rather specifically American examples ) et voila, nature is created and inhabited by a spirit you can trust, our souls live on when we die, and good souls even have a particularly nice afterlife.

In the first agricultural societies, there was a needing to centralize power and that's where we find the first sun cults.
From there it's just a small step to monotheism.

If one thing makes me believe in god it is how inevitable he made it for us to do so.

But still, dark matter seems to have very little to do with him.
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thegelding
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2007-03-08, 10:59

tell her that dark matter told the wind to blow over her bike.

dark matter is the godfather, sitting back and getting others to do his dirty work

if she thinks dark matter told the wind to blow the bike over, it would be interesting to see if she would rather talk on the phone to the wind or dark matter about it...

probably still the wind...when i have a problem with my mac i talk to tech support, not steve jobs...steve jobs is too big and too removed and too intimidating








perhaps steve jobs is god??


nah, still put my money on dark matter...got the church's motto:

Does God MATTER?

would also make for a good bumper sticker...along with

DMG is Universal

and

My God is Huge

or

My God is bigger than your god.


g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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billybobsky
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2007-03-08, 11:21

I don't believe that religion is adaptive.

I believe the human mind is inclined towards spirituality just based upon the simple rules it must follow to learn at a young age. To build up contexts for other new ideas, a young child must assume identity -- that is, that everything is the same, and not just the same, but like self -- everything acts with intention, can get hurt, etc. This type of early learning is conducive to the god abstraction -- when the rest of the world begins to reveal itself as different, god serves the role of the great equalizer...

And dark matter can't equalize jack and jill...

Last edited by billybobsky : 2007-03-08 at 11:21. Reason: Posts merged
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Moogs
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2007-03-08, 11:32

And thusly did the thread become more interesting...

Gelding, you've done some serious thinking and questioning on this and it's to be commended. You may well be right that the thing we now call Dark Matter (because we don't know what else to call it or what it is, only that it seems to have a physical effect on the behavior of the larger universe), is God or some manifestation of what we've come to think of as God.

Below are some things that crossed my mind as I read your posts. And don't take them as critical: my way of trying to understand things is first to see if there are any logical ways I can pick them apart, and if I can't then I gain a little more confidence with each passing discussion (internal or otherwise)...


A) Do we really know enough about Dark Matter and any of its properties, to assert with any certainty that it exists? From a purely cosmological (even mathematical) point of view, our best scientists seem to routinely disagree about what it is or how it might work within the large scheme of the universe. So you'd have to have not just some but *a lot* of faith to hang your religious hat on it.

It's analogous to the basic laws of physics and how they came to be understood. Before Einstein there was Newton, before Newton, Copernicus, before Copernicus, the Egyptians, and so on. If I applied a "timeline of understanding" to what we now call Dark Matter, I would suggest our understanding of it is pre-Copernicus, maybe even pre-Egyptian. We can't even agree on how to conceptualize it yet, really. Can we?

I guess my point is, often times in new realms of science -and science is clearly the chief component of your religion right now, even if some of it requires faith in the unknown- we get it all wrong at first, even when we're pretty sure we're right. And by "at first", I mean the first 300 years. We're at about year 50 with respect to modern Cosmology, and probably year 25 or 30 with respect to the concept of Dark Matter. (I think... my dates may be off a little, but you get the point). So ultimately the question is, is it too early to put forth an idea of a DMG?

When I look at the whole picure, I see a science that only in the last 30 years, has been able to produce instruments (HST, x-ray and gamma ray telescopes and detectors, etc) that give us accurate enough data to even surmise what the questions are, let alone have the answers. Until very recently, we haven't even had the tools to look out there and know where to begin. That to me, means right now, most likely we've got some things wrong, with respect to the specific properties of the big bang, dark matter, etc.


B) I question whether what you really want is religion. Religions are created to simplify people's understanding of a complex world and their place in it. To be brutally honest, even though millions of religious people are not simpletons, religion serves the simpleton mind find and foremost. It is a way for people who cannot -on their own- make sense of the world around them, to feel safe that there is a simple explanation. The world scares them. These are people who need to be lead through trying times, instead of lead themselves.

Note to religious folk: PLEASE do not take that the wrong way: I know there are many critical thinking, self-leading people who nonetheless benefit from traditional religious beliefs. I'm just saying their historical purpose and usage has not been to cater to the strong thinkers of the world. The shepherd and flock analogy is both ironic and perfect when you take the big picture into account. BUT I DIGRESS...

...ANYWAY, Gelding, your quest seems to me to be the opposite of religion. Yes, it's something different to believe and have a certain amount of faith in, and even a different reason for believing... but to me it's not religion. It's something else. A new philosophical pillar maybe. Call it Inquirism, from the word Inquiry.

C) If in 100 years we find the DMG to have some form of consciousness or active purpose, do we worship it or merely try to understand it and [maybe even communicate with it in some manner]? My guess is you'll answer the latter, which again points away from religion and towards something else. Religious Gods must be worshipped and served....

...into the light of a dark black night.
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billybobsky
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2007-03-08, 11:39

oh dear... me thinks moogs has taken this a bit too far...

dark matter is limited, as i said earlier it appears to be affected by and effects gravity. it is a new unknown, but it like all other unknowns are manifestations of god only in that god takes the place of the unknown since we are too feeble minded to step aside and say we don't know and that that is ok.

do we worship sentient life on earth?
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thegelding
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2007-03-08, 12:47

a) a marriage of faith and science seems not so at odds...at least having science affect my faith is preferible to having faith affect my science

b) yes this would be different than any current religion...this would not have an interventional god

c) i fear that, in the thousands of years it would take to get to the DMG, that if we get to it and find it inteligent yet different than us, that we would try to kill it

how would we crucify a DMG?


g


WWDMGD

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Moogs
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2007-03-08, 13:05

I dunno... you lost me there. I was just trying to look at your new belief system from a different angle or three.
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thegelding
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2007-03-08, 13:27

sorry...thought i was doing a quick answer to your a,b,c questions upabove....but i did it very quick and dirty...

g
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Moogs
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2007-03-08, 13:57

No I meant you lost me with respect to the crucify question. Seems a little out there / putting the cart before the horse. We would have to actually establish what it is and how it works in relation to everything else, THEN establish some sort of inherent purpose or being, THEN do your new model of religion thing, etc.

Let's stick to the basics before fast-forwarding 1000 years.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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billybobsky
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2007-03-08, 15:24

isn't it odd that a not insignificant part of the world worships an entity that was killed?
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thegelding
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2007-03-08, 16:05

ha, that is interesting...

we take it for granted that we can kill our gods...keeps us powerful

which is why i mentioned the crucify question...would we kill god if we met god? the whole, "if you met buddha on the road, kill him" thing

but you're right, that is a whole other kettle of fish

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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thuh Freak
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2007-03-08, 16:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
b) ...this would not have an interventional god...
ah, but the DMG does intervene. she/he/it (shall we name it "shit?") binds and manipulates all known matter, all planets, and every butterfly in an isolated field. DMG interacts acts with everything, and intervenes, via gravity. And gravity, as a math/physics formula, has infinite range (newtonian: G = k * (m1*m2)/(r^2)). Shit's just not a personable dood, like Jebus. But, shit's strong enough and powerful enough to spin planets and to fling galaxies. I would say shit's uber-interventional.

Shit really did knock over that bike. Shit pulled and pushed the atoms around the milky way, and allowed the right configuration of higher order matter to exist around our planet, just enough to cause our notion of air pressure and thus wind. Shit kicked that bike over, with his proverbial foot.

This allows us a closer, deeper relationship with the DMG. Because each of us is matter and energy, and we possess smaller strengths of his awesome gravitational powers. Our bodies, and our movements, and our actions all incur their own gravitational toll on everything else in the universe. In each of us is the essence of the DMG, and yet we concede to his ultimate power. We're butterflies in a very chaotic math equation; and that equation is only yet understandable by his shittiness, the DMG.
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thegelding
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2007-03-08, 16:42

thou art god...

i grok that


still i will have you burned at the stake for blasmphy for calling him "his shittiness"

DMG ain't a he, or a she...not even a shemale

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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Moogs
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2007-03-08, 17:07

However, DMG does not approve of political correctness for its own sake. I heard it on the hotline recording.
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Schnauzer
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2007-03-08, 18:14

thegelding, what on earth are you talking about?

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Doxxic
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2007-03-09, 08:38

Naaaaw dark matter isn't God. Even to me, a skeptical with a basic feeling of cosmic goodness (today, at least), God is light.

Dark matter is gravity. So if anything, it's the id. It's the antichrist. It's the church. The flesh. Nature. The inevitable. Yin.

I mean, look at it!

Last edited by Doxxic : 2007-03-09 at 09:03.
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thuh Freak
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2007-03-09, 16:55

A little blasphemy never hurt anyone.
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thegelding
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2007-03-09, 17:02

mmmmm, guess we don't remember the spanish inquisition....




g
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crazychester
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2007-03-09, 20:52

I go with the story Bono (of U2 fame) tells of the night he and Mikhail Gorbachev got pissed as newts on vodka together.

At one point, Bono asked Gorby if he believed in god. To which Mikhail replied, "I believe in the universe." Me too, Gorby.

Oh and the words of The Chink from "Even Cowgirls Get The Blues":

I believe in nothing, everything is sacred.
I believe in everything, nothing is sacred.
Be your own Messiah. Save yourself.



If you can.
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Doxxic
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2007-03-12, 05:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by thuh Freak View Post
A little blasphemy never hurt anyone.
Sorry, I was essentially making fun and I don't want to hurt anyone. I tried to remove it, but couldn't (?)

However, the serious part of my post was that even to a non-religious person like me, "God" means the opposite of darkness and matter, as opposed to many other 'concepts' considered sacred on this planet.
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thuh Freak
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2007-05-10, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxxic View Post
Sorry...
no apologies necessary. i was referring to my own blasphemy, above, where the g man pointed out that i referred to DMG as "his shittiness."


but i resurrect this thread because we have some great news. We have moved forward. Man has come one step closer to seeing the face of DMG. Very exciting stuff, but extremely short on details. More to come May 15.
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thegelding
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2007-05-10, 20:50

yeah, i saw the story also and thought of this thread...actually just this weekend somebody brought up my DMG and i had to explain it again to a new person...they said i sounded very "preaching the gossip" and forceful and "spirited"...perhaps i should get serious with it

g

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everything is food if you chew hard enough
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