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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-10-13, 10:55

Is a plug-in hybrid a vehicle that has a gas motor to drive or generate electricity where the vehicle can run only on electricity if it gets plugged in and charged?

This seems like a great way to extend milage if you can run a generator on gas for times when electricity is hard. I've been watching Long Way Up and seeing those guys struggle to charge motorcycles is what really got me thinking about that. Sure an all electric car is great if you have a charger at home and don't go far from there.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-13, 11:44

Subaru released a plug-in hybrid variant of the Crosstrek last year but oddly has not released a 2021 update. They also never sold it in Colorado for some reason.

Plus the place I rent doesn't have any way for me to plug it in anyways.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-13, 11:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Is a plug-in hybrid a vehicle that has a gas motor to drive or generate electricity where the vehicle can run only on electricity if it gets plugged in and charged?

This seems like a great way to extend milage if you can run a generator on gas for times when electricity is hard. I've been watching Long Way Up and seeing those guys struggle to charge motorcycles is what really got me thinking about that. Sure an all electric car is great if you have a charger at home and don't go far from there.
We’re not talking about remote parts of central and South America. I’ve driven 33,000 miles in an electric vehicle so far and spend nearly every weekend driving through the mountains and camping, even towing a camp trailer.



Subaru had a hybrid of the cross trek a few years ago as well, it was neon green and it was a fake hybrid, basically improved MPG by 5-10%.

Toyota and Subaru have been riding their success of the 2000s for several years now and going for short term gains. Love Subaru, still own an outback, but they are seemingly way behind on the EV transition, even more so than every other manufacturer.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-13, 12:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
We’re not talking about remote parts of central and South America. I’ve driven 33,000 miles in an electric vehicle so far and spend nearly every weekend driving through the mountains and camping, even towing a camp trailer.



Subaru had a hybrid of the cross trek a few years ago as well, it was neon green and it was a fake hybrid, basically improved MPG by 5-10%.

Toyota and Subaru have been riding their success of the 2000s for several years now and going for short term gains. Love Subaru, still own an outback, but they are seemingly way behind on the EV transition, even more so than every other manufacturer.


https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/crosstrek/hybrid.html

It comes in blue and gets 90MPG.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-10-13, 13:08

You know, that isn't the kind of hybrid I would want. I want an electric car with a gasoline generator. It shouldn't power the wheels at all. I'm guessing that isn't an option though. Maybe the generator would have to be too large to actually power the drive train.

Ryan, I have to say that looks like a cool car for you though. Reading your other threads about getting out there in the real world, this is a great vehicle to do that and drive around town too.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-15, 10:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Ryan, I have to say that looks like a cool car for you though. Reading your other threads about getting out there in the real world, this is a great vehicle to do that and drive around town too.
Thanks! I've got Monday off so I'm gonna take it up into the mountains for a long weekend and see how it does on some off-road trails.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-15, 23:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post

for "up to 17 miles"......


I was referring to the 2014 Crosstrek Hybrid anyway.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-17, 17:02

I have Monday off so I'm up in Breckenridge for a long weekend of photography and taking this new car up some mountain roads. Took it up Boreas Pass over the continental divide this morning then out to McCullough Gulch south of Breck—the first was an easy road, the second required 4wd/clearance. Very excited about the possibilities this car opens up for me.

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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-18, 23:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I have Monday off so I'm up in Breckenridge for a long weekend of photography and taking this new car up some mountain roads. Took it up Boreas Pass over the continental divide this morning then out to McCullough Gulch south of Breck—the first was an easy road, the second required 4wd/clearance. Very excited about the possibilities this car opens up for me.

Nice shot. I keep meaning to drive Boreas Pass... just drove past the turn off on 285 again for it yesterday when I did a day trip to Crested Butte for a day from Denver.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-19, 00:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Nice shot. I keep meaning to drive Boreas Pass... just drove past the turn off on 285 again for it yesterday when I did a day trip to Crested Butte for a day from Denver.
It would've been better two weeks ago during the fall colors.

I wish autumn in Colorado lasted longer than 72 hours.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-19, 01:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
It would've been better two weeks ago during the fall colors.

I wish autumn in Colorado lasted longer than 72 hours.
ha, it can definitely be impacted by the freak wind and snow storms that are common but I feel like this fall was about as long as ever.





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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2020-10-19, 18:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
You know, that isn't the kind of hybrid I would want. I want an electric car with a gasoline generator. It shouldn't power the wheels at all. I'm guessing that isn't an option though. Maybe the generator would have to be too large to actually power the drive train.
Turt, you're looking for a serial hybrid. A parallel hybrid has the gasoline engine and the electric motor both drive the wheels, and IMO they're a horribly over-engineered solution looking for a problem. Problem being "how do we keep our ICE engineers employed?".

A flat out electric vehicle with a cogenerator is a serial hybrid. Generator charges battery, battery drives car. Simpler. Also, because you can have the ICE run at a fixed RPM optimized for its efficiency and longevity, it ends up being vastly simplified, and more robust. The ICE never drives the car, so it doesn't have to have a lot of oomph, it just has to create juice, constantly, regardless of what the EV is doing, until the battery is full. If you're draining the battery faster than it can charge *who cares*? It's extending your range as you go. If it's charging faster than you're using, yay, you're getting towards 100%. There's no downside.

Dream setup:

An EV with a drop-in/removable cogenerator package. Small motor, fuel tank, in one more or less sealed unit that can dropped into place (electrical connections, cooling, and air/exhaust vents mate up on insertion), or removed to save weight and gain cargo space. Make it under 200#, packaged with proper handles, and it's liftable by two adults. Open the frunk, slide it in, and voila. Range extension for long trips. Running around town and need more groceries space, or just want your car to use less juice? Open frunk, pull it out. A rotary engine is actually well suited for this application - fixed RPM, simple design.

Sell the base car for less, cogenerator as an add-on for folks who want it.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-10-19, 19:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
You know, that isn't the kind of hybrid I would want. I want an electric car with a gasoline generator. It shouldn't power the wheels at all. I'm guessing that isn't an option though. Maybe the generator would have to be too large to actually power the drive train.
The Chevy Volt was the vehicle for you before GM killed it last year......

It would have a 50 mile electric only range and then once that was used up, a gas generator would turn on to operate in the serial hybrid config kick described above for another 300 miles or so with its 9 gallons gas tank. So if you never drove more than 50 miles a day, you could never need the gas generator as you would be plugging back in every day. But have it in case you want to do a road trip.

I am always surprised GM never made a crossover with the Volt's technology, but guess they decided to go straight to the Bolt and chose against serial hybrids.

giggity
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-10-20, 10:07

Thanks for the explanation on this. I don't get why it isn't a more prevalent option. It just makes more sense if you want gas as a backup for a plugin electric car.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-20, 12:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Thanks for the explanation on this. I don't get why it isn't a more prevalent option. It just makes more sense if you want gas as a backup for a plugin electric car.
Because the use cases for that are diminishing rapidly. With ranges over 300 miles, and high speed charging network rapidly expanding, it's not worth it.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-10-20, 12:53

You know, I used to think like that when I lived in Virginia Beach. Now that I'm in the sticks I have to disagree with you. Sure we aren't going to be mass market just based on population density, but I can assure you there is a need for this kind of option. I'm guessing the bean counters will never let it happen though.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-20, 14:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
You know, I used to think like that when I lived in Virginia Beach. Now that I'm in the sticks I have to disagree with you. Sure we aren't going to be mass market just based on population density, but I can assure you there is a need for this kind of option. I'm guessing the bean counters will never let it happen though.
I think you would be surprised. While I dont live in the sticks, I live in the mountain west with vast distances between cities and many significantly rural areas. It's really not an issue. And even more so, you dont really pump gas at the garage of your rural home, but you can easily charge, and wake up every morning with a "full tank".
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tomoe
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2020-10-21, 00:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I have Monday off so I'm up in Breckenridge for a long weekend of photography and taking this new car up some mountain roads. Took it up Boreas Pass over the continental divide this morning then out to McCullough Gulch south of Breck—the first was an easy road, the second required 4wd/clearance. Very excited about the possibilities this car opens up for me.

Nice! My wife and I recently also joined the car club--first car I've had since August 2000! We considered getting a Subaru too, but ended up getting a RAV4, which coincidentally has a blue color similar to yours. We've been scheming on a month-ish long road trip because we're both doing remote work, but haven't finalized where. Was thinking _maybe_ somewhere near Zion National Park.

Seen a man standin' over a dead dog lyin' by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin' down kinda puzzled pokin' that dog with a stick
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-10-21, 11:52

GMC Hummer EV.

Now that's an off-road truck! None of that stupid Tesla wedge nonsense!
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-10-21, 14:43

You’d run out of batteries before you made it off road.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-10-21, 14:44

350+ mile range. 200Kw batter. Which is a whole pile of holy cow!

Still not sold on these things for any kind of off-road/trailer-pulling use, but it at least looks like a truck!

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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-10-21, 14:48

As long as it’s not driven by the dumb guys that hang metal genitals off the tow hitch (like the gas version), I guess it’s okay.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-21, 18:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
GMC Hummer EV.

Now that's an off-road truck! None of that stupid Tesla wedge nonsense!
to each their own. That looks hideous.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-21, 18:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
350+ mile range. 200Kw batter. Which is a whole pile of holy cow!

Still not sold on these things for any kind of off-road/trailer-pulling use, but it at least looks like a truck!
Very poor efficiency if it can only do that range with a 200 Kwh battery.

I'm not sure I understand how they plan to hit their price points with a battery that large with such small economies of scale on their battery production versus Tesla.


At this point, it's just promises. They have to deliver.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-10-21, 18:33

Oh, it's not efficient. No one said it was. I mean, it's a freakin' Hummer!
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-10-21, 20:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
I'm not sure I understand how they plan to hit their price points with a battery that large with such small economies of scale on their battery production versus Tesla.
Isn't the list price $112k? Doubt they'll have too much trouble.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-10-21, 20:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Isn't the list price $112k? Doubt they'll have too much trouble.
Do you have any idea what a 200 kWh battery costs?

Tesla tops out at 100 kWh, even on models that cost $150k and with their enormous economies of scale and manufacturing experience for battery production
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-10-21, 21:03

So is this thread EV only or can we discuss the sexy new Bronco?


...
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-10-21, 21:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoe View Post
Nice! My wife and I recently also joined the car club--first car I've had since August 2000! We considered getting a Subaru too, but ended up getting a RAV4, which coincidentally has a blue color similar to yours. We've been scheming on a month-ish long road trip because we're both doing remote work, but haven't finalized where. Was thinking _maybe_ somewhere near Zion National Park.
I've been considering St. George as a base for a few weeks in spring. Aside from Zion there are some excellent state parks nearby, plus on the Kanab side some awesome sights on BLM land. Plus Cedar Breaks, north rim of the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-10-21, 21:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Do you have any idea what a 200 kWh battery costs?

Tesla tops out at 100 kWh, even on models that cost $150k and with their enormous economies of scale and manufacturing experience for battery production
No clue what a 200 kWh battery costs, but I doubt it's more than $50k.

Not knowing what Tesla views a healthy profit margin, it's hard to say if it matters or not. Tesla is likely also more concerned about weight, than GM is with the Hummer EV.
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