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PayPal a secure system?
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Windswept
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
 
2006-12-24, 15:29

I know we've had discussions about PayPal before, but not lately, iirc.

Do I remember correctly that someone hacked into the PayPal system sometime back?

Does anyone know if there were reports of stolen personal information and/or fraudulent use of people's PayPal accounts after that incident?

I ask because my brother just told me that he had a PayPal account that had been just lying around unused for the last year or so. He received an email a few days ago about some sort of PayPal payment that was scheduled to be made from his account.

He checked, and someone had attempted to charge a $450 cell phone to his PayPal account. He called his bank, and they are sending him yet *another* new bank card with a brand new account number. He had tried to access his PayPal account before contacting his bank, but was unable to do so.

He called someone at PayPal, who didn't speak English very well ( ), and they just kept telling him to access his account online, though he tried to explain that he was unable to do so.

I dread all this, because I too have an unused PayPal account lying around, which I had used only *one* time two years ago. When I have tried to access it online, I haven't been able to; and whenever I call to speak with a 'person', I seem to miss their office hours, or something.

Anyway, what is your latest impression about the security of PayPal accounts? Is PayPal an insecure system subject to rampant attempts at hacking from all over the globe?

Or is it a well-run, reliable system that is helpful in making purchases?


I have never bought or sold anything on eBay? Is buying and selling on eBay the main reason people have PayPal accounts?

Should I try to close out my PayPal account completely? Will I actually be able to close it, or will my account, and my personal information/credit card number always lurk in their system?

I am always SO careful with all my personal information in everything I do. I am just SO annoyed that I signed up with PayPal - for a stupid reason - and now have fears about the safety of my information in their system.

I welcome your personal impressions of PayPal. Lots of you have used eBay a ton of times. I hope you can allay my fears, but if not, I welcome your advice.

Thanks. And sorry to post this today, but tomorrow would be worse. And I'm anxious to get some feedback.
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PB PM
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2006-12-24, 15:33

I've had no trouble with Paypal in the three years that I have been using it. I change my password every few months to help curb possible hackers.
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Windowsrookie
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2006-12-24, 15:39

I've never had a problem. But I've heard they enjoy freezing your account for no reason.
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Fahrenheit
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2006-12-24, 15:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by windowsrookie View Post
I've never had a problem. But I've heard they enjoy freezing your account for no reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paypal.com
You must be at least 18 years of age to register for an account and use the Service.
Maybe thats why they freeze it?
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Windowsrookie
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2006-12-24, 15:46

Did I say I owned the account?
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PB PM
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2006-12-24, 16:04

So thats how you were able to get a new iMac.
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chucker
 
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2006-12-24, 16:11

No problems at all with PayPal in many years of owning an account. I never bought into the horror stories. I'm either lucky, or simply more considerate and cautious. *shrug*
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Windswept
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Join Date: May 2004
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2006-12-24, 16:47

Well, thanks for your comments, guys.

I certainly feel a sense of relief to hear that no one has really had problems.

That's great news. Maybe I'll keep my account open after all.

It's weird, cuz several months back I bought some herbal products (herbal tea, etc.) from an herb farm in Hawaii. I typed in my Visa number for the purchase, and after I clicked 'submit order', got a note saying "We see that you have a PayPal account, yadda yadda", and the upshot was that they sent my purchase through the PayPal account, though I hadn't authorized that. Hmm.

Doesn't seem like a merchant should be able to do such a thing though, does it???
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Fahrenheit
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2006-12-24, 16:53

The main thing is, Windswept, that there are millions of accounts and theres bound to be one or two problems, but there are millions of successful transactions.
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NosferaDrew
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2006-12-24, 16:57

I received an email from some spammer a couple of weeks ago indicating something to the effect of "the Sony camera that you ordered has shipped and that payment (over $4000) has been charged to your PayPal account."

It was simply a phishing attempt, I'm guessing, and there was no such activity when I checked my PayPal account.
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Windswept
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2006-12-24, 17:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by NosferaDrew View Post
I received an email from some spammer a couple of weeks ago indicating something to the effect of "the Sony camera that you ordered has shipped and that payment (over $4000) has been charged to your PayPal account."

It was simply a phishing attempt, I'm guessing, and there was no such activity when I checked my PayPal account.
Yeah, my brother got something like that.

I really think there should be consequences for companies sending out such lies to people. Grrrr.
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Windswept
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2006-12-24, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Dobbs View Post
The main thing is, Windswept, that there are millions of accounts and theres bound to be one or two problems, but there are millions of successful transactions.
Well, the feedback people are giving is the reason I started this thread.

What I actually expected was that some would say PayPal was a mess and that they'd never have another PayPal account after XYZ horrible things happened to them.

But no one has said anything like that, so I feel lots better.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-12-24, 18:20

I seem to recall Torifile saying something about using credit card for your paypal account, not a bank card as you get liablity protection whereas cash or bank card could be stolen with a "Oh, sorry" from Paypal...

But you'll have to ask Torifile for specifics as I don't have a paypal myself (never found a compelling reason to have one) and this is entirely secondhand.
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2006-12-24, 19:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept View Post
Yeah, my brother got something like that.
I really think there should be consequences for companies sending out such lies to people. Grrrr.
Just to make sure Carol, you realize that PayPal is not behind the email? And that the spammer is hardly a company, more a loose confederation of bad guys who have no physical presence in the real world of business. PayPal would have no connection whatsoever with the email or the resulting fake website that the email points toward. The fake website would look exactly like the PayPal website but would have no connection whatsoever, just like the email that led the victim out to the phishing website. There are no consequences PayPal should face other than annoyance that they're such an easy site design to mimic and that there are so many people who still don't undertand how the internets work.

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
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Shades of Blue
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2006-12-25, 00:44

I also have been using PayPal for a bunch of years, and I've never had any problems at all.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2006-12-25, 18:04

I've used PayPal for year as a buyer and seller on eBay and only recently have been run through by PayPal and a lying international buyer who caused my account to be locked up and have PayPal tell me I owe them $185.00. Needless to say I'm not giving it to them. I opened another account to allow me to complete a transaction with a few people and I am not sure I'm going to keep it open once everything is done.

They have too much access to your accounts as far as I'm concerned. My advice would be to limit the bank and credit card account info you give them. Best would be to have those accounts only be used for PayPal to limit the impact if they choose to lock up your account.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.

Last edited by turtle : 2006-12-25 at 22:38.
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drewprops
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2006-12-25, 18:18

Seems to me that there remains a gaping hole in the online sales/trade business for a really "with it" escrow company.
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Windswept
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2006-12-25, 18:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
...and only recently have be run through my PayPal
Turtle, sorry, but I'm a little unclear about ^ this part ^ of your comment.

I wouldn't bother you about it, but it sounds like something significant happened with your account that I'd like to be clear about.

Thanks in advance for any clarification you might give.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2006-12-25, 21:28

No problem. It isn't really a sore spot for me other than with PayPal. I meant "by" though when I typed it.

Here's the story:
I wanted a 80GB iPod to replace a Creative Zen 40GB Jukebox. I bought the iPod and listed the Zen on eBay allowing international bidders. A Turkish man won the auction with only 1 feedback.

So he never contacted me for international shipping rates and ended up winning the bid. I got his shipping address and sent it out US Mail with insurance and all.

Mr. Turkey claimed to not receive the package and files a dispute with PayPal. In our comments back and forth through the dispute resolution center in PayPal he admitted to doing the process wrong and accepts responsibility for the issue and asked the claim be dropped.

The Dispute Resolution Specialist sided with the Turk and gave him a refund locking my account up by causing a negative balance on my account for $185.

The only way I can use this PayPal account is to give PayPal this money to return my account to a zero balance. I will likely never see my Zen again and so now I'm out my Zen and $185 if I were to pay it back.

So now I have opened another account and only have one bank account connected to it with the check card connected for my "credit card". See, once the account is locked they prevent you from removing accounts listed under it. So the three checking accounts I had linked to it are still linked. I'm in the process of shutting down those accounts and migrating to new ones because of this.

Suckish way to learn. Now I'll only sell internationally if I know the recipient.


Edit: I was on my cell phone for those last few so I have fixed them.

Last edited by turtle : 2006-12-25 at 22:39.
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Windswept
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2006-12-25, 21:40

Wow.

Thanks very much for explaining.
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Windowsrookie
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2006-12-25, 22:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by windowsrookie View Post
I've never had a problem. But I've heard they enjoy freezing your account for no reason.
See. It's pretty common I guess.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2006-12-25, 22:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept View Post
Wow.

Thanks very much for explaining.
You're welcome. Seems to be a easy scam for the international market. All they have to do is say they never got the package and then they don't have to pay. They get their money back and get to keep the product. PayPal seems to always side with them.

I guess you could send it UPS, DHL, or FedEx with package tracking, no one wants to pay that price though.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-12-26, 00:17

Turtle,

Would sending it certified with return receipt (which only would cost $5 more) have prevented the hassle? I seem to recall that insured mail isn't necessarily the surefire way to protect your delivery...

Just wondering.
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World Leader Pretend
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2006-12-26, 01:11

The only trouble I've seen first hand was when my friend accidently logged into his ebay account through a phishing page. He noticed some strange messages about his items and noticed that "he" had sent some emails that he didn't. He withdrew all his PayPal $$ and was alright, but it could've been gone pretty quickly.

Just don't log into your ebay account if there are Russian ads at the bottom of the page
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Windswept
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2006-12-26, 04:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend View Post
Just don't log into your ebay account if there are Russian ads at the bottom of the page
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2006-12-26, 05:19

I use PayPal all the time for eBay selling/buying, occasionally retail purchases, giving people I know money (to pay for a Ventrilo server and website,) etc.

I would never keep a large positive balance in my account. That's what a checking account is for.
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Eugene
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2006-12-26, 05:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend View Post
Just don't log into your ebay account if there are Russian ads at the bottom of the page
For stuff like etailers, ebay, paypal, etc. I always type out the URL. I never even bookmark those sites so I force myself into the habit.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2006-12-26, 17:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
Turtle,

Would sending it certified with return receipt (which only would cost $5 more) have prevented the hassle? I seem to recall that insured mail isn't necessarily the surefire way to protect your delivery...

Just wondering.
That still doesn't allow for package location. While I could prove it was delivered, assuming the local country actually sends me back the card signed, it wouldn't allow the package location to be known. It's just not worth it to me.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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ironlung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "Chambana", IL
 
2006-12-26, 19:07

Turtle I had a similar experience with paypal, and ill never EVER send to an international ebayer again. This was a few years ago, and I had listed my iriver mp3 cd player so that I could end up buying an ipod (1st gen).

Anyway a russian ended up winning the auction and transferred the requried amount into my account. I shipped the stuff out, but did NOT transfer the money from my paypal account to my bank account. A couple of days later paypal removes the amount because the russian had used some one elses credit card illegaly. So here I was out of $150ish. I tried everything but nothing worked. So I ended up contacting the Russian and scaring him into transferring the amount using his own credit card (into a new paypal account). I told him that I had contacted the FBI and they were going to come after him etc. Apparently he had watched enough american movies to completely believe me.

But my original paypal account was (and still is) frozen. I told paypal what had happened, they were sympathetic but wanted some information like a copy of a utility bill, another form of ID etc. So I fax them that information hoping that I would get my account unfrozen. Turns out it was not enough. They wanted a copy of my social security card and my passport. Way too much private information. So I stuck with my new paypal account. Havent had a problem since but I NEVER EVER pay with my bank account. I have this bank account primarily for paypal and withdraw everthing out of it as soon as possible.

Carol I have heard quite a few bad stories in regards to paypal. Ebay sellers with 100% over 400 feedback getting their accounts suspended for the smallest things. Google checkout on the other hand is awesome. They do not transfer your information to the seller if you dont want them to (not even your email address!). Now only if ebay will finally start using google checkout (never going to happen) or if google will come out with a ebay killer.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2007-02-06, 01:23

Update: PayPal sent me to collections for that bastard in Turkey. Now do I fight it and spend more than $185 fighting it or just give them the money? They are already getting the finger!

I'm going to figure out a way to use Google Checkout with eBay sales, or anything other than PayPal that is. I hate PayPal.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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