[Swing]

Hey, maybe 12" PowerBook fans will not be left in the cold with the new MacBook Pro machines.

Pogue wrote yesterday in the Times that, in regard to the 15" MacBook Pro, "Apple hints that its 12-inch and 17-inch siblings are on the way."

I do not know to what hints Pogue is referring vis-a-vis a 12" MacBook Pro. Though it seems likely he may know more than many people.

Note: I'd provide a link, but the link may eventually require a log-in. For the time being however the article (which is his review of the 15" MacBook Pro) should be easily accessible at www.nytimes.com, should anyone care.

[Brad]

Apple Laptop Has Looks and Brains

REMEMBER the famous five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance? If you're a fan of the Macintosh computer, meet the five stages of switching to Apple's new laptop: lust, anticipation, delight, dismay and waiting. Ordinarily, it's not really news when a computer company introduces a new laptop model. You don't see newspaper headlines blaring, "Gateway's New P32-XC5 Adds Faster Processor, Third U.S.B. Port." But the new Apple MacBook Pro ($2,000 and up) is a different story. Although it looks nearly identical to the company's existing 15-inch PowerBook, something radical is going on under the hood. Apple's high-end laptops are beautiful, thin and light, clad in scuff-hiding aluminum and crammed with features: Wi-Fi wireless networking, Bluetooth wireless, DVD burning, light-up keys for typing in the dark, stereo speakers, batteries with illuminated "fuel gauges" and much more. But the speed of Apple's laptops has only inched forward in recent years, no thanks to the suppliers of its processor chips ( I.B.M. and Freescale). Apple made the eyebrow-raising decision, therefore, to replace that chip family with chips from another company you may have heard of: Intel. Now, changing chip families in a computer isn't as simple as changing a CD in your stereo. The entire operating system and every single software program must be rewritten — recompiled, the geeks would say — to speak the new chip's language. That process can take weeks or months. But Apple deemed the big transition to be worth the effort. In return, it gets the state of the art in laptop horsepower: Intel's new Core Duo chip, which bears two electronic brains instead of one. By the end of this year, every Macintosh model will receive an Intel brain transplant. (The same Core Duo chip, running at the same speeds, is also showing up in new Windows laptops. And no, the Intel chip does not make a Mac vulnerable to Windows viruses. It does, however, mean that in theory, with the help of a conversion kit that someone will surely write, a Mac could run Windows.) Last month, Apple put an Intel chip into the iMac; on Tuesday, it put one into the Mac Mini. And this week, the first Mac laptop containing the Intel processor is reaching customers — a 15-inch PowerBook that's been inexplicably renamed the MacBook Pro. (Why do Mac fans despise the new name so much? Partly because all those harsh consonants — K, K, P — make the name uglier and harder to say.) APPLE calls the MacBook "the finest laptop in the world." In truth, a more accurate description would be "the finest laptop in the world, with a small serving of disappointment on the side." You can see why Apple might be fond of its latest machine. The one-inch-thick MacBook is only 0.1 inch thinner than the PowerBook, but somehow feels worlds sleeker and more futuristic. Fit, finish and quality are spectacular. The wireless antenna has been moved, so Wi-Fi reception is much improved. The guts, from the bus (circuitry) to the graphics card, have been substantially accelerated. Battery life is pretty much the same as on the PowerBooks: 3 to 3.5 hours. The MacBook trumps its predecessor in five substantial areas. First, the gorgeous, 1,440-by-900-pixel screen is much whiter and brighter. It's very, very bright. At half brightness, it matches the brightest setting of other laptops; at full brightness, it could illuminate a runway. It's really bright. Second, a tiny video camera is tucked inconspicuously above the screen. It's ideal for taking Web pictures (640 by 480 pixels), capturing video or creating video blogs to post online. (The laptop's bounteous software collection includes programs for making blogs, Web sites, videos and podcasts.) Better yet, the camera makes the MacBook a perfect companion to the iChat program, which lets you hold smooth, full-screen video conferences with up to three other people over the Internet — free. Other Mac laptops can join such virtual meetings (using an external camera), but the MacBook is the first laptop with the horsepower to start one. (One high-speed Mac must be the "host" of an iChat conference; slower machines connect afterward.) The third enhancement is a slim finger-length remote control. You can use it to operate the MacBook from across the room, summoning slide shows of your photos, concerts of your music collection, playbacks of your movies or playback of a DVD you've inserted. In addition, there's a new power cord. Now, most people probably wouldn't consider a laptop's power cord worth writing home about, let alone taking up precious newspaper space. But this one's a breakthrough. It attaches to the laptop magnetically. If someone trips on the cord — which, in the real world of laptops, is practically an inevitability — your $2,000 computer doesn't crash to the floor. Instead, the cord politely detaches and drops, leaving the laptop sitting exactly where it was, grinning away on battery power. This new connector still lights up helpfully to indicate that it's plugged into a working outlet. On the other hand, the white plastic power brick — in the middle of the cord — is much bigger and bulkier than before. And, of course, the new connector means that you can no longer interchange the cord with that of any other Mac laptop, as Apple fans have been able to do for years. The biggest change of all, though, is in the MacBook's speed. It's nothing like the 4X or 5X speedup measured by Apple's benchmarks. Even so, this machine flies. It starts up fast, programs open fast, iTunes imports CD's fast, iMovie processes high-definition video fast and Web pages blink onto the screen, fully formed. This laptop makes you aware of how many little pauses you've been tolerating on your old computer. Note, though, that all of that speed is available only when you're using programs that have been revised to work with the Intel chip — so-called Universal programs. In that category, you'll find Mac OS X itself; all of the programs that come with the MacBook (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, Web browser, e-mail program, calendar and address book, and so on); over 900 programs from other companies (they're listed at www.apple.com/universal/applications); and, later this month, Apple's professional programs (Final Cut, Aperture and so on). Unfortunately, most of the big-name programs, like Microsoft Office and Adobe everything, won't be released in Universal format for quite some time. These older programs still run acceptably on the MacBook, thanks to the magic of Apple's smooth, invisible translation software. But they run slowly, with pauses here and there. Even Photoshop runs all right, although photo editors won't want MacBooks as their primary Photoshop machines. Now, Apple always giveth and taketh away. This time around, though, Apple hath taken away quite a few PowerBook features. The S-video connector, for high-quality TV playback of movies, is gone — a weird omission, considering the multimedia emphasis implied by the new remote control. (You can restore the S-video jack with a $20 accessory cable.) The FireWire 800 connector, for high-speed hard drives, is also missing. The DVD burner is only half as fast as the previous model (4X instead of 8X) and can no longer burn dual-layer DVD discs. Current PC expansion cards (including high-speed cellular Internet cards) don't work or fit in the new narrow-format ExpressCard slot. Most mystifying of all, Apple has removed the laptop's dial-up modem, so you can no longer send or receive faxes. You can't go online in hotels that don't offer high-speed connections (or that charge way too much for them), either. Apple points out that you can buy its tiny external modem for $50, but that's another piece to pack, track and lose. It's also worth noting that a few programs, here and there, will require updates to iron out problems on the Intel Macs. They include the Now Up-to-Date calendar (the menu-bar list of today's appointments doesn't appear), Microsoft Virtual PC (doesn't run at all) and, at least on my test system, Microsoft Word (jitters like mad when you use the MacBook's "drag on the trackpad with two fingers to scroll" trick). And programs designed for pre-Mac OS X machines, now called Classic programs, don't run on any Intel Macs and never will. Over all, the MacBook Pro is a beautifully engineered machine. If it's not the world's finest, it's darned close. (Apple hints that its 12-inch and 17-inch siblings are on the way.) But in so many ways, it's a forward-thinking laptop. It won't achieve true greatness until the important programs have been rewritten for the Core Duo chip's blazing speed, expansion cards for the new slot are available, and wireless Internet is offered by every hotel, bed-and-breakfast and friend's house. Until then, call it the MacBook Po — for Potential.

There. Now you don't have to worry about expiring links or secret logins.

[Swing]

Wasn't worried. But thanks anyway.

And for those looking for the quote mentioned in my original post, that is in the second to last paragraph of the lengthy article.

[Brad]

Of course, Pogue does not qualify that assertion in any way. He makes no effort to explain how or where Apple "hints" at these new devices.

Should we accept it just because he says so?

[Partial]

I think it's pretty much a given there will be a 1500ish laptop from Apple. I know not Whether it is called the MacBook Pro, iBook, or MacBook. I am really, really, really hoping Apple doesn't skimp on the features like a ridiculously bright display, and a backlit-keyboard.

[Artap99]

What is it with everyone wanting a 12" Macbook Pro? Granted, there could be some smaller rendition of a MBP, but this whole Intel switchover is costing Apple money for every machine they transition due to redesign costs. The 12" was never really a 'pro' machine and always kind of an embarrassment. Don't get me wrong, I own one and I'm quite fond of it, but expect to see a larger version of the MBP before the smaller one.
As for the backlit keyboard...I have it on my MBP and it's always off. I don't find it that hard to find the home keys in the dark. I've used it just about as much as Dashboard. If you want to be more productive at night while typing, just learn how to type without looking at the keys

[Swing]

Originally Posted by Brad Of course, Pogue does not qualify that assertion in any way. He makes no effort to explain how or where Apple "hints" at these new devices. Should we accept it just because he says so?

Certainly not just because he says so. But he is the most reliable source I have read regarding a 12" MacBook Pro.

I was surprised he placed the 12" in context of the MacBook Pro line, and without mention it could instead be replaced by a 13.3". Maybe an editor messed with his original draft, but this is the most positive speculative news on a 12" MacBook Pro I have read to date.

Originally Posted by Artap99 What is it with everyone wanting a 12" Macbook Pro?

What is it? There are a lot of users who require more portability than a 15" for purposes such as audio recording with a lot of other associated equipment, and also for photo and video editing, sometimes associated with the same audio recording. Portability and performance are important factors in this context.

[runner91786]

Well for some of us, the 12" is the ideal form factor for portability, weight, as well as it can still have some power under the hood. A dual-core MacBook Pro 12" would allow me for one to get rid of this iBook(it cant handle my needs) and to move further into video editing, and industrial design. I need a laptop that is powerful because I am always on the go, yet small enough to take notes in class. You may say I ask too much, well its not entirely impossible!

And heres to the HOPE for a 12" MBP in the coming months, hopefully before the end of April. :smokey:

[Artap99]

Okay, good reasons. You have satiated my curiosity

[Rolo]

OK, I found this really old thread so let me sweep away the cobwebs and see if this works.

How about a 12.1" widescreen MBP sub-notebook, ultra-light, ultra-portable (take your pick). Let's say it's something like .75 to .8" thin and weighs 3 lbs., uses the new Intel U1300 ULV chip, a Core Solo. Maybe this chip is a true Core Solo and not a defective Core Duo with one bad core.

The ULV Core Solo U1300 specs should be:

1.06, 1.2 GHz (there could be faster versions up to 1.5 GHz)
2MB L2 cache
533 MHz FSBus (wish it were 667 MHz)

Performance should be good considering it has the full 2MB cache to itself. The Core Duo chips have to share the same sized cache.

Being an ULV chip, cooling needs would be minimal so it may not need a fan. The case design of this thing could be quite thin and very light weight.

ULV chips are not cheap which seems to suggest this would be a candidate for a small version of the MacBook Pro rather than an iBook replacement. I think it'd use the Intel 945 PM chipset which is the same one used in the MBP.

Gateway's E-100M is a 12" widescreen sub-notebook or ultraportable that costs $1598 with 512MB/40GB. The NX100X is for home use and costs $1400.

Here's a link with photos:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/30/g...ultraportable/

Note the lack of a latch. Apple is rumored to have some new notebooks with magnetic non-latch closure. Maybe this MacBook could have the built-in cam and the Apple Remote with Front Row. One assumes Intel integrated graphics.

Information on these things has been removed from the Gateway site as far as I can tell. I did a search on their site and came up with links to products that didn't work.

The U1300 is supposed to be announced by Intel on April 16 but that's a Sunday. One wonders if Apple might announce its verson on Tuesday, April 18, a day before earnings. Could be interesting.

I assume this new MBP would be at the same $1499 price point as the existing 12" PB G4. If so, it should be 1.5 GHz, 512MB, 80GB, SuperDrive, and all the wireless goodies. Let's hope it has a backlit keyboard, too.

[World Leader Pretend]

Would integrated graphics really be that horrible compaired to a graphics card on a 12" screen?

[Rolo]

Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend Would integrated graphics really be that horrible compaired to a graphics card on a 12" screen?

It'd be quite fine for ordinary use. Who wants to play 3D games on a 12" sub-notebook?

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Rolo It'd be quite fine for ordinary use. Who wants to play 3D games on a 12" sub-notebook?

me. you can hook it up to an external monitor. I would hope for an x1600

[halo1982]

Originally Posted by tensdanny38 me. you can hook it up to an external monitor. I would hope for an x1600

X1300 if you're lucky!

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by Brad Of course, Pogue does not qualify that assertion in any way. He makes no effort to explain how or where Apple "hints" at these new devices. Should we accept it just because he says so?

Though it seems a given that Apple will release a 17 inch pro laptop and 12 or 13 inch pro laptop. (And for all the naysayers who say there will be no 12 or 13 inch MB Pro, I say Bullshite. The 12 inch PowerBook was and continues to be a big seller. No way Apple gives that up.)

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by Artap99 The 12" was never really a 'pro' machine and always kind of an embarrassment.

The 12 inch was always an embarassment? When it first came out, the 12 inch G4 PowerBook was no embarassment at all. But even if it were, it was a big seller. And even still, the fact that it was an embarassment (which is not really true) does not mean that it will be an embarssment in the future with intel's new chips.

Sometimes, I really wonder where people come up with the things they say. . ..

[runner91786]

What pro buys a piece of shit slow MacBook Pro? Not realistic people...first off a single core and Ultra Low Voltage at this? This is not a business machine, its a PRO machine, for actually getting work done. It needs to have similar power to its bigger brother and sport atleast a 1.66 core duo, why else would they have magically bumped the macbook pro? Also, integrated graphics is lame. Even for basic stuff, it just sucks. I definitely think a PRO machine would constitute atleast dedicated graphics and core duo, because people still do video editing, just not on the 12" screen, it does have DVI out ya know...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Mac Donald Though it seems a given that Apple will release a 17 inch pro laptop and 12 or 13 inch pro laptop.

I'll ask again, where are these hints that Apple has dropped about them being on their way? Note that this was the whole reason for that post you quoted.

All we have on which to base these predictions is the fact that Apple made 12" and 17" models of the PowerBook.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by halo1982 X1300 if you're lucky!

Depends on what the machine is like.

If we're talking about a true replacement for the 12" PowerBook, I would expect no less than the Radeon X1600. I'm sick of Apple crippling the lower end PowerBook while still charging a premium for it. Following that tradition, though, it seems there's a good chance of it getting an X1300 instead.

If we're instead looking at some hypothetical ultra-light notebook, then I don't think we can expect anything better than shared graphics. I really doubt Apple's going to release a product like that, though.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by runner91786 Also, integrated graphics is lame. Even for basic stuff, it just sucks. I definitely think a PRO machine would constitute atleast dedicated graphics and core duo, because people still do video editing, just not on the 12" screen, it does have DVI out ya know...

I bow to your amazing reasoning.

Maybe you could give some further pointers as to why integrated graphics
1) would make DVI out difficult (hmm, Mac mini…)
2) would impair video editing.

[runner91786]

First off dedicated video memory is much faster than shared ram. It has a much lower latency, and is available right to the chip, rather than some turbocaching bullshit like all the new stuff does. Any video render, is graphics intensive and therefore a lame onboard Intel shared graphics, wouldn't cut the cake. Why the hell do you think high end video editing machines carry high end graphics cards? Most people dont upgrade graphics in their powermac for gaming. Usually a much lower pipeline limit on integrated graphics too.

I pointed out DVI merely because people would argue no one does any serious work on a 12" screen, and DVI allows for another screen such as 20",. 23" to do your editing on. Integrated graphics has nothing to do with the fact that its a digital or analog connection. I simply meant an additional monitor.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by runner91786 First off dedicated video memory is much faster than shared ram.

Integrated graphics does not require shared RAM.

Why the hell do you think high end video editing machines carry high end graphics cards?

Who "the hell" said a 12-inch laptop would be a "high-end video editing machine"? At best, it could be mid-end.

I pointed out DVI merely because people would argue no one does any serious work on a 12" screen, and DVI allows for another screen such as 20",. 23" to do your editing on. Integrated graphics has nothing to do with the fact that its a digital or analog connection. I simply meant an additional monitor.

If you notice, all current Intel Macs have DVI. Even the $599 Mac mini. Or the $1299 iMac, where it is a new feature.

So, that feature can be taken for granted, regardless of whether we're talking integrated or not.

[runner91786]

Your really missing my point chucker.

DVI for external monitor, is not the feature im boasting about here. It is the power to do video editing. Some may argue that no one would edit on a 12", and I justified before an argument began, that since it can connect to an external the editing would probably be done there, as a lot of powerbook users that I have seen, do so. Thats the reason they are dual-link capable on the higher end, for those that want a 30" to edit on from their powerbook.

Even in design applications you need a beefier video card for renders and such. You are acting as though processor is the only factor in video editing or something of the sorts. If that was it, I sure woudl think Apple would cut costs by making all their pro machines Integrated. Couldnt you see a Quad G5 powermac with integrated graphics? Seems to make sense to me right?? errrr...maybe not

My point is I think it is very unlikely Apple will have integrated graphics on ANY of the pro line.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by runner91786 My point is I think it is very unlikely Apple will have integrated graphics on ANY of the pro line.

Considering that the consumer iMacs don't even have integrated graphics should be enough to justify this statement.

[Mac Donald]

Originally Posted by Brad I'll ask again, where are these hints that Apple has dropped about them being on their way? Note that this was the whole reason for that post you quoted. All we have on which to base these predictions is the fact that Apple made 12" and 17" models of the PowerBook.

I agree that there are no express hints. But here's an implied one. When the MBP 15 inch started shipping, guess what disappeared from the Apple store? The 15 inch PowerBook, but what did not disappear? The 17 inch and 12 inch. Thus, there obviously is a replacement for these two laptops or they would be phasing them out with the 15 inch powerbook. What will replace a 12 and 17 inch PowerBook? Why, none other than a 12 (or maybe 13) and 17 inch pro laptop. Seems pretty obvious to me.

[Frank777]

The 'hint' thing is simple. Journalists ask questions when they get a test machine. Apple's PR people, who would like to keep their jobs, smile and 'hint' that new machines may be in the pipeline.

Regarding the MBP, I hadn't realized the S-Video was gone as well. Isn't it an odd time to do this, now that Apple's going into the TV download business?

But the killer for me is the modem. I can foresee times when I'll need a modem, I'm not buying one more thing to add to my briefcase. Worst of all for Apple, my 12" Powerbook has one, so they've actually given me a reason NOT to upgrade.

Who's idea was that?

[Rolo]

Hmm, now that I've read all about the ULV U1300 at speeds of 1.06 and 1.2 GHz, I'm not buying this as a good chip for any sort of MBP. I'd go with a LV chip like the T2300, a Core Duo at 1.5 to 1.66 GHz. The U1300 only has a 533 MHz FSB. It's just too lame. Also, integrated graphics on a Pro MacBook would suck. Use the ATI X1600 or at the very least, the X1400 GPU. Let the 12" MBP be an inch thick and a pound heavier if you're going to end up with a superior product.

ULV chips aren't cheap but can let you build a sleek, thin, light portable like that Gateway E-100M which is .8" thin and weighs just over 3.1 lbs. For the same price, let me have the same thing but .2" thicker and a pound heavier but a whale of a lot more powerful.

[runner91786]

Originally Posted by Mac Donald I agree that there are no express hints. But here's an implied one. When the MBP 15 inch started shipping, guess what disappeared from the Apple store? The 15 inch PowerBook, but what did not disappear? The 17 inch and 12 inch. Thus, there obviously is a replacement for these two laptops or they would be phasing them out with the 15 inch powerbook. What will replace a 12 and 17 inch PowerBook? Why, none other than a 12 (or maybe 13) and 17 inch pro laptop. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Excellent point. I think thats a good base to start off of. They even waited to discontinue until a few weeks after the MBP was released.

I was thinking further about integrated graphics in a 12" MBP, it would not be capable of running aperture, which I have dealt with TONS of photographers who are in love with the 12". It would be ashame to not have a small portable that could handle your work like that.

Personally, the 12/13.3" MBP will be my sole machine with a 20" display connected when its being used as a desktop. So I really would prefer dedicated graphics as I *might* install windows to play counterstrike.

[Luca]

The ONLY way a 12" MBP would get shared graphics (I prefer to call them shared since integrated graphics just means you can't replace them, and that's the case for all notebooks) would be if it were to become some kind of an ultralight subnotebook, and frankly that's not going to happen.

[Mugge]

True. The MBP/PB is not like the x-series Thinkpad. The typical MBP/PB users and (x-series) Thinkpad users, usually have different needs. x-series people mostly just run office & internet applications on their machines, while a significant portion of the MBP/PB users at least use iLife and other creative applications on theirs

It doesn't nessisarily need to be a huge GPU. Just big enough drive an external display with your preferred creative application without any hickups.