[drewprops]

Okay, if this wasn't so infuriating it would be funny.... except that it wouldn't be.... get this:

So I updated all my Adobe apps to CS3 a few days ago and I'm liking the way everything works. Things turn a bit busy for me so I'm back into production mode in InDesign CS3, slamming along on revisions to a 16 page document. We output this document on tabloid paper (11 inches x 17 inches). It's printed double-sided and is stapled along the spine in "saddle stitch" fashion.

Anyone familiar with saddle stitching knows that the printed pages must be WILDLY out of proper numerical sequence (as compared to the original document) in order to print properly.... each side of a layout making up a double page spread is printed onto a separate sheet of paper which is 'joined' with its mate when the stack of pages are stapled together.

So.... there I am in InDesign CS3 and I go to the "Print Booklet..." choice in the File menu.

Good deal, it's a bit different from CS2... maybe a little clunkier, but it works for printing.... but I realize there's no way to save the re-ordered page sequence to a new, independent InDesign file.... which means that I cannot 'bake' a PDF document.

Yanking up Google I begin clicking around, only to discover that the company that made the free plug-in that Adobe used in InDesign CS2.... the company that had made the process of re-jiggering pages a simple button clicking affair.... that company.....


....had been bought.

By Quark.

And what did Quark do?
They immediately ceased production of the plug-in for Adobe products!!
This apparently happened in the midst of the production of CS3, so some code monkey, somewhere, should be congratulated for being able to generate a working booklet PRINTER in time for the release of the new application.....

...but for those of us who need the ability to create a new InDesign file with the re-ordered pages? It doesn't exist.

Sure, there's a script that somebody out there wrote, but it cheats by building PDFs and placing those into new order, so it isn't a native InDesign file... plus it balks at Section breaks.... so it fairly well sucks.


I'm left with reduced functionality, disdain for Adobe for relying on a 3rd party to supply this ability and ABSOLUTE DISDAIN for Quark for pulling this shit.

[709]

Quark has, does and will always suck the chocolate chute. I pray nightly for their demise.

[psmith2.0]

Oh man, this kind of stuff affects me! I'm double-pissed!



Seriously, that's no good.

Man, that's going to be a bit of manual work and hassle now. Yeow...

Is this function something that Adobe can write into the program, and release in a point update?

[murbot]

That's enough to make a man put his hand through the drywall and slam multiple beers.

I will add them to my nightly "pray for their death" list tonight.

[Frank777]

I use InDesign as well, but it is absolutely retarded to fault Quark for not supporting a competitor's products.

Adobe has killed off Freehand and GoLive, not to mention the abandonment of Premiere on the Mac after Apple bought and finished Final Cut from Macromedia.

Quark has made many mistakes, but this isn't one of them.
They simply bought a Plug-in developer to enhance Xpress in its fight to stay alive.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah. Just throws a wrench into production for some. Adobe could build this into the program, and they probably will.

[Ebby]

Originally Posted by murbot I will add them to my nightly "pray for their death" list tonight.

Got an RSS feed for that? I so need to make a widget.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Yeah. Just throws a wrench into production for some. Adobe could build this into the program, and they probably will.

This will be a new feature of Adobe CS4, to be released in 2010 (or whenever they feel like it).

[Fullthrottledesigns]

Well that sucks, I am a designer and that is how I set up one of the newsletters I design. I am getting ready to send one off to the printers next week, I wonder if they will encounter a problem printing it.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Luca This will be a new feature of Adobe CS4, to be released in 2010 (or whenever they feel like it).

But only in the all-new Ultra Premium Plus Design® Edition™ Extreme! As extra bonuses, comes with ten other apps you'll never use and introduces a crash-on launch bug in Bridge, too. Now with 10% less bizarre icons.

[BuonRotto]

People still use Quark?

(Someone had to ask. )

[drewprops]

This is ABSOLUTELY Adobe's screwup.
How in the heck do you leave one of the MOST PROFESSIONAL COMPONENTS of your application up to a third party developer?

Somebody want to write up a DIGG on this thread (for what good it'll do)? I'll digg it if you do.... too busy MANUALLY going through and doing the imposition of a PDF manually so my admins will be able to print this doc locally when I'm not around.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker But only in the all-new Ultra Premium Plus Design® Edition™ Extreme!

You're not that far off. I went to Adobe and Apple's site, looking at the various CS3 apps and packages. I've never seen such a complicated, "WTF am I supposed to buy?!?" mess in my life. It's about 62 pages of offerings.

I think I kinda liked it better years ago, when the crap just came in a single box and you bought what you knew you needed. I have to do way too much thinking/planning with all their offerings now.

Adobe CS3 Print Professionals with Funky Glasses & Stylish Shoes Limited Edition Extreme...Adobe CS3 Web Motion Media Digital Deluxe HD...Adobe CS3 Rule the World Photoshop Maximum with Video Ballscratcher Plug-Ins: Education Edition

Dear Adobe, Enclosed is my check; just send me $800 worth of whatever you have sitting around. I'll figure it out when I get it. With any luck, Illustrator will be included in there somewhere. Thanks, Paul

[drewprops]

I should mention that I had a beer aat lunch because of this.

[psmith2.0]

I'm betting you had more than one, if you're having trouble spelling "at" correctly.

[Mugge]

If I hadn't just brushed my teeth, then this would be a fine opportunity to mix a White Russian.

[murbot]

Oh god, don't get Paul started about sucking down white russians. I'm still dealing with the mental imagery of him full-onning Daniel Craig.

[Bryson]

I'm still unclear on why Quark shouldn't screw InDesign users? I would have thought it would be directly in line with their business model.

[Mugge]

Really. Last time I held a party we mixed them in an empty (and cleaned) Stay Clean® Heinz™ ketchup bottle. That way you could squirt White Russians into peoples glasses or straight into the appropriate orifice.

Pretty dirty, eh?

[Yonzie]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 You're not that far off. I went to Adobe and Apple's site, looking at the various CS3 apps and packages. I've never seen such a complicated, "WTF am I supposed to buy?!?" mess in my life. It's about 62 pages of offerings.

It gets better.
Here in Europe, we have Education Editions of all the various apps and CS3 packages. They are steeply discounted.
But there's also Student Editions, which are half price compared to the Education Editions. Again, all apps are available as Student Edition, except for the one I want, which is CS3 Web Premium...
(so I just got the Design Standard which does me fine)

[Kohoutek]

I haven't set anything up in printers pairs for years, ever since printers changed from using film to going straight from computer to plate. All the artwork I produce is sent as single pages in running order, it's paginated by the RIP at the press. I do remember what a pain it is to do though, maybe you can find a way around it at the press.

The Adobe bundles are a nightmare, we have CS2 design standard, so we thought we'd save some money and just upgrade InDesign, but apparently you can't do that, you have to upgrade the whole suite or buy the full stand alone version. I'm kind of hoping that Quark does make a comeback the consumer needs the competition.

[kieran]

Originally Posted by Mugge ...orifice...

Seems to be the word of choice around here lately.

haha

[drewprops]

Originally Posted by Bryson I'm still unclear on why Quark shouldn't screw InDesign users? I would have thought it would be directly in line with their business model.

Yeah.... I think we all pretty well agree that Quark was just doing what was necessary for their growth. Adobe is actually the one doing the screwing.... both of itself and its customers.

I figure it drank too many white russians from a ketchup bottle.
This may all be Mugge's fault.


Oh, and for everyone's information, the name of the script that will assemble a PALE SHADOW of an imposed InDesign document is "Booklet CE 3.5". You drop the script into your "Scripts Panel" folder... here's the filepath.

Adobe InDesign CS3 > Scripts > Scripts Panel

You'll need to crank up InDesign after dropping in that script, then you'll need to open your Scripts palette. Look for where you placed that script and try giving it a run on your document.

Again, the problem with that file is that it goes through and cooks PDFs and then places those into the proper sequence in a new InDesign file. The problem is that any section breaks (for numbering porpoises) send that script into a tailspin.....

[Capella]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto People still use Quark? (Someone had to ask. )

Lots of people do. My high school paper, my town's local paper, and Rutgers' Daily Targum (voted one of the best college newspapers ever) all use Quark and make fantastic papers.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Kohoutek I haven't set anything up in printers pairs for years, ever since printers changed from using film to going straight from computer to plate. All the artwork I produce is sent as single pages in running order, it's paginated by the RIP at the press.

Yep. That's how we move here in Toronto as well.

Originally Posted by Kohoutek The Adobe bundles are a nightmare, we have CS2 design standard, so we thought we'd save some money and just upgrade InDesign, but apparently you can't do that, you have to upgrade the whole suite or buy the full stand alone version. I'm kind of hoping that Quark does make a comeback the consumer needs the competition.

Yeah, I never bought into the Creative Suite. I have individual InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator licences. I'm not much of a Photoshop guru or artist, so I keep ID at the latest version and still work with years-old versions of Photoshop and Illustrator.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Bryson I'm still unclear on why Quark shouldn't screw InDesign users? I would have thought it would be directly in line with their business model.

If their business model is lowering their reputation more and more, one step at a time, sure. By your argument, Microsoft should shut down MacBU…

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Capella Rutgers' Daily Targum (voted one of the best college newspapers ever)

Rut-who now?



I can't help but read that as "Daily Tantrum" every time I see it.

[Bryson]

Ummm....no, it doesn't. And you know that.

Choice between applications != choice between platforms.

Quark bought this plug-in maker to get themselves a USP over the rival application. That's a good idea (although too little, too late, probably)

Microsoft's MacBU is a different beast entirely.

[drewprops]

On a scale from 1 to 10 how dumb is Adobe's gaffe?

[admactanium]

Originally Posted by Bryson I'm still unclear on why Quark shouldn't screw InDesign users? I would have thought it would be directly in line with their business model.

why not? for so many years quark was in the business of screwing quark users. might as well expand their target.