[psmith2.0]

Yeah, the "Baby Yoda" thing has thrown off several people. I don't even watch the show and I've had to explain/clarify to a few who do because they were confused in the same way, re: the timeline/show's setting, why "Yoda" is now a baby, etc. Do they call him The Child in the show? Did I read that somewhere? The Internet needs to come up with a better name, even if the show doesn't. Would save a lot of confusion.

I've been using "Baby Force Frog" (BFF) or NoReYo (Not Really Yoda) in some of my real-life discussions.

Regarding the return of a certain bounty hunter, I'm actually on board with/expect this. I think that's going to be a big reveal at some point, I truly do. Not sure how I feel about it, big picture, but, then again, I've never really fully understood/grasped his popularity/legend anyway, other than simply "looking cool" in a handful of scenes. If Disney/Lucasfilm want to resurrect the character to flesh him out a bit more and give him screen time to justify (or maintain) his popularity, that could be something interesting. It would instantly overshadow the Mandalorian character on this show, so I don't know how smart that would be on that front. If it's just a 1-2 episode "one and done" type of thing, maybe that can work. But if he's back for real, and back on the job, then I would think more people would rather watch a show about him than this other guy in a similar outfit. Being Disney, they'll probably bring him back just to kill him. That seems to be their go-to approach so far, so that's not out of the question. He survived that pit, but then gets permanently offed on a streaming TV show, 36 years later. Sounds about right... For anyone insisting that he's still being digested in that pit, and that he's "dead", then I only need to refer you to both Darth Maul and Palpatine...two characters we saw "killed" and falling into really deep holes. Hell, Maul was even cut in two (almost always fatal). But now he's back, popping up on some TV shows with robot legs, but, even more importantly, in the Disney canon/timeline via his appearance at the end of Solo. And while he wasn't cut in half, we all saw Palpatine fall down that shaft and "explode"/vaporize...yet, here he is again (in some form, maybe not full-on "alive" as we're assuming) in The Rise of Skywalker. So if those two characters survived what looked to be a pretty sealed fate/doom, then I would assume a backpack-wearing, weapon-possessing hard-case can fight/fly(?) his way out of some hole in the sand. They're asking a lot more of us to buy the return of Maul and Palpatine than that of this other character, right? He wasn't cut in half or vaporized, and the fall likely wasn't hundreds/thousands of feet either. Plus, he still had all his gear/weapons when he went in. I doubt he intended to go quietly, and I'm sure he proceeded to kill the shit out of whatever he encountered down there. If you're that much of a "galactic bad-ass", then that's what you'd do. He survived in original (Legends?) canon, so even though Disney is systematically lifting its leg over so much of that, they can pick and choose the things they want to use for their new, established canon...and I'm thinking Ol' Scratch 'n' Dent is probably one of those things they've opted to bring over. It's Disney...if they believe they can print money via bringing back a fan favorite, they're gonna.

[709]

'The Child' was the name of one of the episodes so I just used that. In the show there's no reverence towards the creature or anything like that; it's been called a child, but mostly just referred to as 'it'.

[psmith2.0]

It truly is about the cutest thing I've ever seen. I saw an article online last week that talked about how, psychologically and design-wise, it hits all the ideal, centuries-ingrained "cute triggers" for people, and that's why it's captivating so many (the big eyes, small mouth, ears, cheeks, the sounds, its size, how it moves, the naive innocence and vulnerability, etc.). Just a perfect storm of "awwwwwwwwwww" factors. They couldn't have done a better job on that front.

Because, in theory, a Yoda baby should be horrifying and one of the ugliest things ever. But somehow they found a way to make it the complete opposite.

[709]

What's most amazing to me is that I still can't figure out if it's a practical Frank Oz style puppet or if it's CG. If it's CG the animators have done an incredible job mimicking the movements of the original granola-bar-stealing goblin we met on Dagobah all those years ago. The head-turns, the ears, the little grabby hands... amazing.

I don't really want to know either way, honestly. It's part of the charm.

[kscherer]

Indeed. Haven't sorted that part out either.

But, yeah, they also got the grabby bit—as 709 said. Little thing is always grabbing at weird stuff, and I absolutely love that the Mandalorian dude (who is also nameless) had a twisty-ball thingy on his "stick shift" that baby Yoda-thing keeps swiping.

Good stuff, and demonstrates just how much of a hassle suddenly coming into a squeaky child can truly be. Suddenly your perfectly organized, sanitary little world is turned on its head by this annoying, needy little brat! Imagine owning a yacht or a plane and you're cruising along on autopilot and some brat kid keeps punching buttons and alarms are going off and waking you out of a cat-nap. Yikes!

Still haven't seen episode 5, but I'm not a spoiler worry-wort. The kid and I will tackle it as soon as she is done stressing over her finals.

—

As far as Boba Fett is concerned, there was a lot of early rumor about this show that it was a Boba Fett series. Obviously, someone got wind of the uniform and connected it with Fett without recognizing the old "canon" that had the Mandalorians all dressing in the same sort of thing, as well as Fett's dad (dad? Was Jango really "dad" ). Anyway, I could see it happen and wouldn't be surprised. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen. I do agree that it would take a lot away from the current lead character, unless they plan on truly, deeply off-ing Mr. Fett once and for all. We'll call it "getting Solo'ed"

"Hey, whatever happened to Boba Fett?"

"Yeah, he got Solo'ed. "

[psmith2.0]

There is a way that you-know-who can be brought into the proceedings that makes a bit of sense...

Once the Mandalorian saw that some shady people might be up to something less-than-honorable with the little baby frog, didn't he snatch him, kill a bunch of people and flee to safety with his former bounty? That's kinda where things are now, correct? He didn't honor his contract, he's on the run, etc.?

What if the people who hired the Mando character to find/retrieve the baby to begin with know that the only way to go after a rogue, code-breaking bounty-hunter is to put another Mandalorian bounty hunter (with a hellacious reputation of his own) on his tail? The only person they could hire who'd remotely stand a chance of succeeding?

Just a thought.

That would solve/address three things in one move:

1) Allows this show's Mando to square off against the more known, famous one (huge, talked-about scene(s), for sure, two equally-skilled guys going at it for much of the episode; major audience satisfaction).

2) Allows this Mando to best (kill) the more known, famous one, thus removing the famous one from the mix altogether (which Disney has already shown across two feature films they have no problem doing with characters much larger/more important than some helmeted bounty hunter who barely said or did anything across two movies), thereby positioning this show's lead character as the ultimate, reigning supreme bad-ass Mandalorian ("OMG, he totally killed..."). That's how you both reintroduce, and bid farewell to, such a character...use him to make your current, new one look even better to viewers

...but...

3) You soften/make him likable because he did all this in the service of protecting/saving The Cutest Thing Ever, which just adds lots of points to the "you gotta like this guy, and follow him on further adventures" column; it's a lot easier to order up new seasons when your lead character isn't a complete, irredeemable a-hole.

You can be a tough-guy hard-case, but you don't have to be a heartless prick about it. That seems to be the best way to appeal to a wide audience.

[709]

I don't know that he could be hired without being a part of the Guild, except for underground machinations, and of course there's the notion that he's dead. If he was up-and-about I feel like we'd have heard something from the cantina droid, at least. There's also a possibility that maybe he did the bounty hunter strapped to the dewback, in order to get Agent May out in the open somehow. That's just me spitballing, but I feel like they have unfinished business together.

I'm betting they don't let him go out easily. In fact, I predict a last-episode cliffhanger in which he/May absconds with The Child.

[kscherer]

I really like Paul's thought, and I think it could work out well. I mean, Boba Fett was a jackass. After all, he claimed Han Solo's body and was always all menacing and such. No one really "likes" Boba Fett, they just like his cool suit. It makes the nifty crafty types look good at those convention things.

*winks at Brad.

[709]

I respectfully disagree. The second that the Falcon unlocked from the back of the Star Destroyer to float along with the trash, and we saw his ship light up and follow, we all knew he was the best bounty hunter. As a kid at the theater, I remember thinking "Oh no". I knew bad times would follow.

I wonder where Slave I is now...

[psmith2.0]

...about to appear in The Rise of Skywalker in an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink cameo/fan-service orgy. Mark my words.

In-story, I have no idea. But I'd wager a hefty sum it's among all those ships seen behind the Falcon in that second trailer.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by 709 I respectfully disagree. The second that the Falcon unlocked from the back of the Star Destroyer to float along with the trash, and we saw his ship light up and follow, we all knew he was the best bounty hunter. As a kid at the theater, I remember thinking "Oh no". I knew bad times would follow. I wonder where Slave I is now...

So, was he the guy you loved to hate, or hated to love?

[709]

As the great poet D. Summer opined, I love to love him, baby.

[kscherer]

Yeah, you're right. There are a lot of fans who wanted to know more about him (myself included). He was one of the characters that I loved to hate. As little screen time as he got, he was still the next baddest of the bad guys when I was growing up. There was Vader, and there was Fett. And they were badass!

Rogue One brought the Bad Ass™ back to Vader (after many long, agonizing years of not-so-bad-assy-ness) and I wouldn't mind at all seeing Fett in a similar manner. And if that happens to drive The Mandalorian forward, then so be it. But, if he shows up in TROS I'm not gonna be happy about it.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 among all those ships seen behind the Falcon in that second trailer.

I bet every rebel ship in the history of Star Wars is in that mess.

Kennedy: "JJ, we're gonna have a shot with a lot of ships in it. I want it to be better than that shot in The Revenge of the Jedi."

JJ: "Uh, it's Return of the Jedi …"

Kennedy: "Yeah, whatever. Just make sure there are lots of ships. Like, maybe a million. Is that a big number?"

JJ: "Sure Kathy. We could …"

Kennedy: "No, don't design any new ships. That would cut into my take. Just use old ones."

JJ: "Which old ones?"

Kennedy: "Oh, I don't know. Just use all of them."

JJ: "All of them? Like … all of them?"

Kennedy: "Yes. From everything we've ever done. I even want that Jawa ship in there."

JJ: "um … Okay!? "

—

So, Paul, the Mandalorian saves Baby Yoda from IG-88 and goes on the run. They have many adventures along the way. At some point, Boba Fett is dispatched to deal with his kinsman in a less than friendly manner. Boba Fett and the Mandalorian dude fight, and Mandalorian dude wins, but receives mortal injuries. Baby Yoda uses the Force to … something … and that leads to … something … in The Rise of Skywalker?

Is that the gist of your thought?

[psmith2.0]

No, I just think those scientists or whatever (that Werner Herzog gang) are wanting to poke and prod the poor little guy to extract some sort of extra-special midichlorian juice that somehow - Force ghost communing, healing, etc. - accounts for the falling, vaporizing Palpatine showing up 30+ years after-the-fact (the real-life reason is that Rian screwed everything up and J.J. is desperate). But I'm talking the in-story reason.

I'm thinking he's not in "real body" form, but a glowing Sith ghost (or some twisted, Sith-y perversion of that). And something extracted from the little baby frog decades earlier has helped bring that about. Some Sith/Jedi DNA or midichlorian manipulation.

I think the little baby somehow factors into Palpatine's re-emergence...there's roughly 25-30 years that takes place between The Mandalorian and the sequel trilogy, so that's a lot of time for Imperial (or Sith) scientists and alchemists to play with their chemistry sets and Palpatine's body/aura/mojo or whatever and conjure up some space Frankenstein/ghost abomination.

How else are they going to explain that he's back? The entire world saw him get zapped, thrown down a thousand foot hole and then explode in 1983. It isn't like he landed on a net and slid out a side door to an escape craft, unnoticed. And surely they're not going to expect us to believe he survived that destruction and has just been hanging out in the wreckage for decades? So something has happened...his "spirit" survived but damaged/weakened, etc. Or his body was recovered and experiments and/or rituals were undertaken by surviving Imperial scientists or Sith devotees, etc. But I think it's spiritual because I don't think any body would've survived that second Death Star explosion. Besides, he seemed to have evaporated/disappeared anyway in that blue flash/storm.

I do think we're going to learn - and possibly in the final episode of The Mandalorian, which airs one week after The Rise of Skywalker opens - that there's something special in that Yoda species regarding the Force (higher concentrations, untapped abilities, healing/live-giving, etc.). Otherwise, why would a bunch of villainous types be interested in a 12" tall baby green frog? His singing voice? Because he knows neat magic tricks? They hired the Mando guy to bring him to them for some reason, and you know it isn't above-board or ethical. The Mando guy obviously had misgivings and second thoughts and rescued the little guy before he could be experimented on or hurt/mistreated.

That's just my hunch. I'm probably way off, but I guarantee you that whatever they actually go with will be twice as stupid.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm probably way off, but I guarantee you that whatever they actually go with will be twice as stupid.

Seriously, this forum should be writing the next Star Wars movie. At least we know what we're doing.

—

FYI, this thread now has a poll.

[kscherer]

Aaaaaand we just finished Episode 5.

I have this take:

1) The Mandalorian is still a dude trying to survive in the galaxy. He has to work, eat money, feed the kids …

2) Tatooine!

3) When he walked into the cantina, I think I might have cried a tear or three.

4) Things seem to have slowed down a bit in that once bustling spaceport.

5) I loved all the throwback stuff. The droids, the hanger, the cantina, the little sand-rat things, the raiders, the speeder bikes, the impaled Storm Troopers …

6) Not sure I agree with Brad about it being filler. I think this episode was done specifically to set up the cliffhanger, which

7) HOLY CRAP ZONES IT'S BOBA FETT! I mean, the cape, the jingling spurs, the boots. Who the hell else is that gonna be*? Clearly this is supposed to allude to someone big within the universe or they would have just showed his face and we all would have said, yeah, that sounds right. I mean, there is no character in 5 episodes that has given us any kind of "aha" moment of thinking they might show up all "suuuuu-prize!" No, that's Boba Fett. And the internet is gonna go all batty this coming Friday. I mean, there is time for one more episode before the big Episode IX launch at midnight of the 19th/20th, and there has to be some crazy trigger to get all us Star Wars nerds all psyched up for what may be the biggest disappointment in movie history—no, no that was Episode VIII—the second biggest disappointment in movie history. Yes, that is Boba Fett or I'll eat my keyboard some chocolate ice cream (hey, I'm not eating my keyboard, and if I'm gonna make a promise it may as well taste good! )

Damn. I won't be able to watch #6 until Sunday or Monday. This no-binging-for-you thing for us early adopters is getting annoying!

P.S. I do believe it's time for us to begin referring to these things as #1, #2, #3, etc. "Episode X" is starting to get a bit confusing, what with the rebellion and all.

*Or it could be Indiana Jones.

[psmith2.0]

The little TV show that could!

Nice to see the property handled in a way that nearly everyone seems to enjoy and appreciate. I was honestly beginning to wonder if that was even possible at this point, but it seems it is.

Get the right folks involved, trust them to do their job and nicely thread that needle between the old and the new, the familiar and the strange. Fill in some gaps, tell some new stories...it shouldn’t be that hard.

In theory, it should be just about impossible to screw up Star Wars if the right people are brought in and left alone.

[kscherer]

As a side note, the "bad guy" in #5 referred to our new "hero" as "Mando". So, I think that's his "name".

Mando it is!

[709]

I remember Carl Weathers' character (the bounty hunter Guild guy giving out jobs) calling him Mando as well.

[psmith2.0]

Mando & the Frog, Wednesdays on ABC...check your local listings.

[psmith2.0]

The actor who plays him, Pedro Pascal*, is in the upcoming Wonder Woman sequel, in the trailer released a day or two ago. Man, the 80's are back in a big way, huh? This, It, Stranger Things, American Horror Story, The Goldbergs, Halt and Catch Fire and I'm sure there are many others I'm not aware of.

That Gal Gadot sure is pretty. And her smile and voice/accent don't hurt. I like her. By far the best thing out of that entire WB/DC universe, both the actress and the character she plays.


*Back to the Mando, has he been shown unhelmeted at all so far? In other words, like Captain Phasma, could anyone be playing that role and it ultimately doesn't really matter? Or does he take the helmet off during quiet times or while hanging out with the baby frog? Has the actor been shown yet?

[kieran]

Nope.

There is a scene in which he's asked when he last took the helmet off and he says "Yesterday," but he hasn't taken it off in front of anyone since he was a child.

If he takes it off in from tof someone, that's the end of him doing what he does apparently.

[kscherer]

He said if he takes it off in front of someone, he can never put it back on. That doesn't mean he can't do what he does, he just wouldn't be a "Mandalorian". It says nothing about his armor and other such business.

Which makes me wonder about Jango Fett. Dude was seen without his helmet so much that A) Lucas never intended for the Mandalorians to be that way; B) Lucas never cared about the continuity of things; or C) Disney could give a rip about anything Lucas said or did.

I'm leaning heavily on C, and I think it's better this way. It gives mystery to the character.

[709]

Jango (and his clone Boba) weren't real Mandalorians though, they just wore the armor.

[psmith2.0]

That’s probably key, with a looming payoff (the “no helmet” thing).

It’ll come off at some point, by his own choice or otherwise. Beyond that, the rule probably doesn’t apply to alone, quiet time. At some point he can be shown flying his ship or whatever, sans helmet.

They’re not going to have a TV show, with possible multiple seasons, where the lead actor is never shown. Just doesn’t happen. All these comic book movies do all they can to destroy masks/helmets so you can see Downey, Keaton, McGuire, etc. The helmet/mask ialways comes off by the third act. Plus, that’s good shorthand - show, don’t tell - that he’s softening/comfortable in the presence of baby frog...making the little guy’s eventual demise that much more heartbreaking.

The helmet probably goes back on, for good, at that point. And God help anyone who looks at him wrong.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by 709 Jango (and his clone Boba) weren't real Mandalorians though, they just wore the armor.

Do we know that? I've never looked into it so I don't know. Was Boba Fett a true Mandalorian, then?

I agree that his face will eventually be seen, but I'm also not sure this show is intended to run on for more than a single season. It seems to be leading up to the death of the hero as he tries to protect [yet to be named] green thing. That being said, I don't think we see his face until he has been mortally wounded and it doesn't matter any more and, even then, I suspect he will either A) ask for the helmet to be removed so he can "look upon you with my own eyes", or B) ask for his helmet to be put back on so that he can die with honor. Honestly, I like choice B because choice A is too Vader-worshippy.

I think this guy takes his position seriously and not removing his helmet through the duration of the show will help to reinforce that with the audience. The audience (myself included) seeing his face might feel a bit cheap, as though Mando isn't really that serious about his loyalty. You can't spend too much time behind the helmet with all its secrecy and then suddenly drop the helmet. I know I felt the same way about Master Chief from Halo. As much as I wanted to "see his face" the mystery would be gone and thus the mystique would be gone forever, and the mystique—once lost—can never be replaced!

I have to say that I hope he is never unmasked, even if he dies.

[psmith2.0]

Nothing popular and well-received lasts for only one season. Not anymore. That may have been the original plan, months and months ago, but surely Disney/Lucasfilm is noting the positive reaction and reviews and signing everyone on to another go-around. Studios - businesses in general - don't leave money on the table. Especially ones named Disney/Lucasfilm.

I do think the show will finish this particular storyline - the little Force frog, etc. - in a few weeks, but the very nature of this guy's job means that many more things can lie ahead...new bounties, new adversaries or partnerships, double-crosses, crisis of conscience, opportunities to kill and pursue those needing it, new planets to visit, etc. And when you factor in the time in which it's set - in that span between ROTJ and TFA - then they could even start to touch on the rise of the First Order (even if just by reference or seeing the aftermath of their growing oppression/brutality) and things like that, as seasons unfold? And since the character is masked/helmeted for the most part, there's no reason it can't time-jump ahead to better tell certain stories? Maybe season two is set 4-5 years after this one? To me, the future of such a show/character is wide open. Whether they want to center an entire season around just one bounty/pursuit, or break it up to where each job is wrapped up in 2-3 episodes (or even one) - or a mixture of all the above - is up to them.

Not that it means anything official, but there is a placeholder "season 2" header at the show's IMDb page (but that may be something they do for everything, I honestly don't know...but it's there).

But my point still stands...there will surely be a season two. When out-of-ideas, brain-dead and manipulative cheap-stunt shows like The Walking Dead can go this long (when they should've hung it up 5-6 seasons ago), then The Mandalorian surely winds up with at least 2-3 full seasons (especially at just 30 minutes each and eight or so per "season"). That's a comparatively light load considering how many shows out there are 12 (or more) episodes and 45-60 minutes (the aforementioned zombie show and many others).

The secret/trick - and so many shows seem to fail at this - is going out while leaving audiences wanting more. Don't stick around for 6-9 seasons when the entire planet knows you shot your creative/watchability wad in 2-4. Go out big, on top, whatever that may be. Stranger Things might wanna re-think their five-season master plan...that show is getting worse with each installment. I absolutely loved season one (enjoyable, novel, out-of-nowhere lightning-in-a-bottle), season two was a bit of a slog that I don't even remember anything about...and I couldn't even get past the third episode of season three.

[709]

Originally Posted by kscherer Do we know that? I've never looked into it so I don't know. Was Boba Fett a true Mandalorian, then?

Yes? Maybe? Boba was just an 'unaltered' clone of Jango, so even less of a Mandalorian than Jango may have pretended to be.

I really don't remember how or where the idea came on that Jango/Boba weren't true Mandalorians, but it was before this series. I wish I could remember because I hate [citation needed] bullshit as much as anyone.

[psmith2.0]

...and that's why this new guy would beat/kill Boba in a duke-out should Boba wind up putting in an appearance as a pursuing adversary (see my earlier post above). If Boba, tough/successful as he may have been painted to be, isn't a true Mandalorian, he'll surely get it handed to him by one who is.

"I'm gonna shove that backpack up there, sideways, pal...".

I'm telling you...Disney is out to upend/subvert everything established in the original trilogy (Han returned to his scoundrel ways, Leia is a icicle who lives only to fight, Luke is a disillusioned quitter, the Jedis were useless, Vader's sacrifice ultimately meant nothing, Yoda is a pyromaniac/cackling loon, Artoo may as well be invisible, war hero/ace pilot General Calrissian is completely ignored for two entire movies, etc.). And if that means offing Boba Fett and making it known that he's not the ultimate hard-case merc/bounty hunter in the galaxy, then that's what they'll do. How else would you make your new, unnamed Mando character the ultimate bad-ass/antihero, ensuring automatic fandom/viewership for upcoming seasons?

Otherwise they would've skipped all this long-way-around-the-bend setup, cut to the chase and just made a TV show about Boba Fett (and if he's considered dead in Disney canon, then they could've easily set it in the time between TESB and ROTJ). They're just being coy, and setting the table.

IM(NSH)O.