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Apple now worth more than Microsoft


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Apple now worth more than Microsoft
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Xaqtly
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-26, 13:49

As of today, Apple surpassed Microsoft's market cap to become second only to Exxon Mobil in the US. This is a fairly landmark occasion, I think.
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BuonRotto
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2010-05-26, 15:09

I don't think this is what Microsoft had in mind back in '96.
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Banana
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2010-05-26, 15:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto View Post
I don't think this is what Microsoft had in mind back in '96.
Nor did IBM back in 80's.

Sounds like all mistakes they made are starting to catch up to them.

Personally, I'm more glad that there's more players than was the case about a decade earlier, which is a big win for us all consumers regardless of which platform we use.
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ezkcdude
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2010-05-26, 15:26

I don't know. It shows you how entrenched M$ really is that it has taken Apple a decade and a half-dozen billion-dollar products to get on top.

If you've read the tech news/blogs the last few years, you would probably think Apple passed them a long time ago.
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Kickaha
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2010-05-26, 15:32

And the other half of the tech blogs are still predicting the death of Apple.

Any day now.

Really.





DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOP... HP bought *WHO*?!?
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Banana
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2010-05-26, 15:37

Yes, but I think we have to consider the inertia involved. I imagine that for a company (or any entity, really) to be willing to move their infrastructure to something requires much more than "this infrastructures sucks". Microsoft has got away with being "good enough" or even "generally sucky but workable" that many companies wouldn't bother with the migration even though the technology could be better somewhere because the math. The difference has to be really drastic, so Microsoft was able to get away with it for so long.

I think same thing actually applies to IBM and Oracle when you think about it.

Come to think of it... how big of a presence does Apple have in corporate setting? I know there was a place where they did everything with mac mini which was definitely cool but is there a trend of adopting Mac OS X servers in preference to other servers or even just Mac clients? All press I've seen to date are almost always consumer-centric rather than corporate-centric and if I'm not mistaken the lion of Microsoft's revenue is from corporate.
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Miko
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2010-05-26, 15:39

This is just in time for WWDC I'm sure Steve will have a slide highlighting this during the keynote.
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PB PM
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2010-05-26, 15:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
Yes, but I think we have to consider the inertia involved. I imagine that for a company (or any entity, really) to be willing to move their infrastructure to something requires much more than "this infrastructures sucks". Microsoft has got away with being "good enough" or even "generally sucky but workable" that many companies wouldn't bother with the migration even though the technology could be better somewhere because the math. The difference has to be really drastic, so Microsoft was able to get away with it for so long.

I think same thing actually applies to IBM and Oracle when you think about it.

Come to think of it... how big of a presence does Apple have in corporate setting? I know there was a place where they did everything with mac mini which was definitely cool but is there a trend of adopting Mac OS X servers in preference to other servers or even just Mac clients? All press I've seen to date are almost always consumer-centric rather than corporate-centric and if I'm not mistaken the lion of Microsoft's revenue is from corporate.
I doubt Apple has made very many inroads in the corporate environment. There are just too many big companies that rely on Windows based software for them to switch, not to mention the cost. Most companies workers don't need a computer that is as powerful as even a Mac Mini and so their 3-5 year old entry level desktops based on Windows XP work just fine.
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
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2010-05-26, 15:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
Yes, but I think we have to consider the inertia involved. I imagine that for a company (or any entity, really) to be willing to move their infrastructure to something requires much more than "this infrastructures sucks". Microsoft has got away with being "good enough" or even "generally sucky but workable" that many companies wouldn't bother with the migration even though the technology could be better somewhere because the math. The difference has to be really drastic, so Microsoft was able to get away with it for so long.

I think same thing actually applies to IBM and Oracle when you think about it.

Come to think of it... how big of a presence does Apple have in corporate setting? I know there was a place where they did everything with mac mini which was definitely cool but is there a trend of adopting Mac OS X servers in preference to other servers or even just Mac clients? All press I've seen to date are almost always consumer-centric rather than corporate-centric and if I'm not mistaken the lion of Microsoft's revenue is from corporate.
The lion's share of MS's revenue is, I believe, still consumer... but the lion's share of MS's *focus* is on corporate. Consumer has been a side-effect of that "I'll buy what I use at work."

Apple flipped that on its head: "I'll buy what doesn't make me hate it." I don't think Apple gives a lot of concern for corporate sales right now, nor should they. There are a lot more consumers than there are corporate seats (or nerds). Corporations are all about finding the cheapest (in both senses of the word) solution, usually without a lot of care for quality. MS does great in that arena, and it's not one Apple chooses to wade into.

MS is following IBM down the same path: corporate focus, not consumer. (At least with Windows.) MS has just been able to make beaucoup bucks from their own halo effect over the last two decades.

And I think it's coming to an end.

MS, IBM, and Oracle can battle it out for corporate seats, trying to undercut each other down to the bone. Dell and Acer will do their best to provide razor-thin margin hardware.

Apple will provide a quality product to consumers at an appropriate price for that quality... and make insane moola.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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Banana
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Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2010-05-26, 16:00

Thanks, PB PM and Kickaha. Sounds like what I expected, though I may have been mistaken in thinking MS's revenue was dependent on corporate more than consumers, but you're probably right - I'm just seeing the focus rather than actual money.

As for the undercutting each others... I sometime really wonder. I tend to hear more about how the companies buy up junk support contracts from those companies and pay through the nose for precious little and the executives act like they got a great deal while the IT people gnash their teeth over the contract. Or is this impression mistaken as well?
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BuonRotto
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2010-05-26, 16:47

I dunno. MS makes a ton of money from Office and Exchange licenses, which has to make the majority of its revenue from businesses.

Anyway, I'll echo ezkcdude's comment that the amount of competition in the mobile space, with healthy, smart companies, is a good thing to have. I think the media/content end has to be sorted out quite a bit still but I hope Google, Apple, HP, MS, RIM, etc. all stay in the game to some extent, if perhaps partitioning the market a bit.
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Brad
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2010-05-26, 17:24

I think it's funny that it's not Mac vs. Windows that turned out to be the deciding factor here.

In fact, Windows still dominates the desktop market where Macs are still in the single digits. (Yes, some reports occasionally show low double digits for Macs.) So, the whole Mac vs. Windows thing actually has virtually nothing to do with Apple topping Microsoft.

Instead it's iTunes/iPod/iPhone vs. everything else.

Weird. I don't think anyone would have seen that one coming.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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PB PM
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2010-05-26, 17:50

Not ten years ago anyway, considering that Apple used to make computers, monitors and printers.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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2010-05-26, 17:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
And the other half of the tech blogs are still predicting the death of Apple.

Any day now.

Really.





DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOP... HP bought *WHO*?!?
What blogs are you reading? I think Apple is pretty much doing whatever they want right now and everybody is eating their stuff up.
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
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2010-05-26, 18:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
What blogs are you reading?
The ones that insist that Windows Mobile/Android/Symbian will kill the iPhone RSN, or that the iPad will destroy Mac sales, etc, etc, etc. Little known sites like CNet, ITWorld, and so on.

In other words, the analysts who have to come up with something to get clicks.

It's almost amusing, really... the OSS fansites that keep trumpeting the victory of Android or Linux any day now are fun, and have passion, at least.

The pros clinging to decade old rhubarbs though? Sad, man.

Quote:
I think Apple is pretty much doing whatever they want right now and everybody is eating their stuff up.
Naw, if that were true, you wouldn't have the 'Apple is da ebil!' crowd out there. You also wouldn't have devs who still proclaim Obj-C as a wierd and dead language.

Apple is *succeeding*, true. But that's a little different than 'doing whatever they want', which has a connotation of lack of controls on behavior. They have <10% of the personal computer market, they have <25% of the smartphone market, only just crested 25% of the music market... there's a ton of competition.

Just not much that can keep up, right now.

Very different, than, say, having 90% of the personal computer market.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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JohnnyTheA
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2010-05-26, 23:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post

In fact, Windows still dominates the desktop market where Macs are still in the single digits.
Market analysts always cite market share in terms of number of units sold rather than actual revenue. If it were the latter, Apple would have a much bigger share because their products cost more.

Where Apple wins is with market share of profit. If you were to compare all PC companies and graph actual profit from PCs, they would probably be up there because they really only compete with themselves. They are like Mercedes Benz in some ways. All Benz cost more than the average care but they have incredible brand loyalty and higher quality. Also, you can get the C-class (which is like the iMac or MacBook) or splurge for the uuhhh.... Non-Class Benz (MacBook Pro or Mac Pro). Mercedes doesn't even think about competing with Kia (Dell equiv.)
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El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2010-05-26, 23:04

Isn't it a little weird now to have Google, who's market cap is lower than Apple's declaring that they are saving the world from Big Brother, and Apple's market cap has just passed Microsoft's?

Are we still the good guys?
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RowdyScot
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2010-05-26, 23:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by MumboJumbo View Post
Isn't it a little weird now to have Google, who's market cap is lower than Apple's declaring that they are saving the world from Big Brother, and Apple's market cap has just passed Microsoft's?

Are we still the good guys?
Is there such thing as a good guy when it comes to the business world?
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Doxxic
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2010-05-27, 05:41

My guess would be that Apple rather goes for the 'smart, challenging' guy reputation than being the 'good, moral' guy.

If they had any accusation against Microsoft in the past, it was rather that they were stupid, uncritical and slow to innovate, than that they were immoral.

Anyway, seeing Apple 'defeat' Microsoft today is like watching my favorite soccer team becoming the new world champions!
(even better - I really don't like soccer and I have no favorite soccer team)

.

Last edited by Doxxic : 2010-05-27 at 07:21.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2010-05-27, 07:41

If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth–and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago.”

–Steve Jobs, 1996
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ezkcdude
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2010-05-27, 07:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend View Post
If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth–and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago.”

–Steve Jobs, 1996
As Sawyer would say, Jobs played the really long con.
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Doxxic
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2010-05-27, 08:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend View Post
If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth–and get busy on the next great thing.
Isn't that exactly what Jobs is doing?
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2010-05-27, 09:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxxic View Post
Isn't that exactly what Jobs is doing?
Certainly seems so.
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ezkcdude
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2010-05-27, 15:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
I don't know. It shows you how entrenched Microsoft really is that it has taken Apple a decade and a half-dozen billion-dollar products to get on top.

If you've read the tech news/blogs the last few years, you would probably think Apple passed them a long time ago.
This guy probably read my post.

Having said that, I love his $200 near-term and $1000 long-term (2015) AAPL targets.
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-27, 15:12

Steve Ballmer should come out at WWDC in a clown wig and just go through his 7 minute speech that ends with circus music and a pie in the face.
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Wrao
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2010-05-27, 16:34

What is crazy to me is that the 'ceiling' for iPhones and iPads isn't even within sight. As good as Apple has been doing with their smartphones, smartphones are still a small fraction of the overall cell phone market. Yet, the overall cell phone market is trending towards smartphones becoming standard. Giving Apple(and Google and others) hundreds of millions of potential new customers. Especially considering how often people tend to replace their phones compared to their computers. Apple really may have struck the motherlode.

That said, there are obstacles, and just as well as the faster turnover rate can help Apple grab marketshare, it can also help them lose it if they don't stay competitive. Also, AT&T exclusivity may well become a thorn in their side the longer it exists. Still though, if Apple stays on its game, the next ten years might make the previous ten look like a warm-up.
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