[World Leader Pretend]

The house that my family just bought is around 100 years old and was the original farmstead in the area. Now it is just another old house in the neighborhood, but it's still pretty cool.

Anyways, when we moved here I was intrigued by this attic! It wasn't finished or anything, but as an aspiring architect I could see the potential. I want to make it into a loft type of area, like something that you would find in Dwell magazine or big cities. I set out to do just that, and I am going to keep you guys posted on the events. The attic itself is around 22x20, so the floor is pretty expansive.

The problem (for my neighbors) is that it is HOT up there during the day, so I find myself up there at all hours of the night making lots of noise. Hopefully they won't hate me too much.

At this point in time, I'm in the demolition stage. The past owners made a room completely out of interlocking flooring in half the attic, which has taken lots of time to get out.


So I got my crowbar and hammer and owned that siding!


Lots of the corners are plaster with some useless insulation scattered about, and lots of dirt. There are also lots of live wires, but they haven't got me yet.


Now I have lots of wood sitting in a corner with no where to go with it, I'll probably toss it out a window or burn it


I plan to re-insulate the walls and brace the roof, since it is flat on top. After that I'll sheet rock it all and install some overhead lighting. For the floors I think I'll pull out the existing wood (which is really nice, but old) and run them through my grandpa's planer and re-finish them. There are lots of little things like electrical work that also needs to be done.


Has anyone out there done something like this before? I am looking for some advice about materials to use. Dry wall or cement board? Thanks for any help!

[Kickaha]

Dry wall, unless you need fire protection. It's a lot lighter and easier to work with.

Me, I'd go for openable skylights... vent heat out in the summer, get lots of natural light in the winter.

[709]

What fun!

I have a similar project I'm (re)working on right now. Renovating my loft. It's taking me a lot longer than I'd like though, mostly because I'm super busy, and secondly because I like doing it myself. When I first bought the place it had plaster and lathe walls and ceiling...what a fucking mess that was to demolish. I filled up 3 40 yard dumpsters with the stuff. Removed the plaster on the brick walls as well, then sandblasted. Loads of fun.

But yeah, like Kickaha said, there's no need for concreteboard in your case. Simple drywall should do the trick. Your plan for the floors sounds...um...painful. Are you sure you can't just take an industrial floor sander to them? You'd be surprised how effective those things are. Start with a rough grit and keep changing grits until you're sanding in you're socks for fear of scuffing the floor.

Looks like you've got some great spaces for floor cabinets/shelves as well. See if you can't run a couple/few independent fuses up from your breaker box as well. Or better yet, think about running another line up there from your existing BB and installing a small one of your own. Beats running down to the basement when you blow a fuse.

I like the skylight idea as well (if you don't mind a little roofwork). Heating and cooling is always going to be a problem in an attic, but it would be nice to get some natural light in there.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Windswept]

I *LOVE* watching the Home and Garden channel. All those great room make-overs.

Just yesterday I saw them talking about a new skylight with a remote control. It would be just ideal. A click of the remote can change the skylight from 'clear' to sun-protection dark tint.

Also, you can leave these skylights open while you're gone, because they have an automatic *close* feature that shuts them when it starts to rain.

I'm sure they are expensive, but they would be just wonderful. The features I mentioned would make having skylights much more enjoyable. (I have skylights with 'none' of those features, so take my word for it. )

Your ceiling might be too low to have ceiling fans, but if you can have them, you should. Be sure to install all the structural bracing and wiring required for fans 'before' the sheetrock goes up, of course. If you can't have opening skylights, you should consider roof vent-fans that run continuously, and suck heat out of attic spaces during the hot months.

Be sure to put in as many electrical outlets as possible. And air-conditioning ducts from the lower part of the house, so they're already in the attic walls/ceiling when the lower house gets air-conditioning down the road.

Put in fixtures ('cans') and wiring for recessed ceiling lighting before the sheetrock goes up. Put in wiring for cable, phone, internet, intercom, stereo wall speakers, and any other kind of behind-the-wall stuff you need.

Have hookups for phone, cable, internet in several logical places, so you have alternatives for furniture arrangment.

You should have 'already' scoured interior design sites and magazines before starting. Why? Because in a small space like an attic, it might be smart to have as many built-in shelves, cabinets, entertainment centers, and desk/computer areas as possible.

If you have room, it might be great to have a woodstove for those chilly winter nights; but you'd need to put the stove pipe through the roof or wall, might need extra strong underflooring to bear the weight, would need a stone-tiled area on which to set the woodstove, with adequate stone surround and adequate distance from the wall, might need a permit or inspection by city building code types, etc.

Of course, you can still 'do' all this stuff, but I'd stop now, do some intense design research, and make a complete plan before going any further with your work. You could have the most amazing place up there that would add many thousands to the value of the house; or you could end up with something nice enough, but not really 'that' great.

[World Leader Pretend]

Wow, all this is getting me excited!

I actually have two new skylights that the previous owner installed, so I can make good use of them.

A wood burning stove? Actually there are two chimneys that are exposed, I could punch a whole in one and make my own! (there aren't currently used)

Maybe a sander would be a better option for the floor, easier on the back!

I got a good shop-vac today, I'll be vacuuming all that junk out of there this evening.

EDIT: I'm doing mockups on Google Sketch-up, I'll post some later..

[Fahrenheit]

definitely go for the pine floor, neutral walls, big desk with iMac. That is all. Ooh, and B&O speakers. Ooh, and a plasma TV on the wall. And a couple of those think different posters.

Good luck

[DMBand0026]

Don't forget the stripper pole, hot tub, and futon.

[Fahrenheit]

futon of course.

And the drum kit in the corner which you obviously cant play, but its there anyway - cos you have a recording studio now!

[Argento]

Oh and a space shuttle launch pad. Gotta have one of those.

[Windswept]

Actually, you could build an outdoor deck jutting out of the roof, accessible from your attic via one of those pull-down-stairs set-ups.

The deck would be on the back side of the house's roof, so it wouldn't deface the front.

Or, if a roof deck seems a bit much, you could replace that window with a small French-type door, opening onto an outside balcony.

Even a smallish balcony would be wonderful for someone living in an attic. Would help ward off claustrophobia. Maybe room enough for a small table and four chairs, plus a few small decorative trees in containers.

You 'are' planning on having a kitchenette type area, aren't you? At least a microwave, a few hot plates, a small fridge?

[psmith2.0]

That's an awesome space, WLP. I'd have a ball with it!

Keep us posted on the progress...I love crap like this!

Like Carol, I can get really into HGTV and some of their makeover/re-do programs.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 That's an awesome space, WLP. I'd have a ball with it! Keep us posted on the progress...I love crap like this! Like Carol, I can get really into HGTV and some of their makeover/re-do programs.

I like House Hunters a lot, Paul. I can usually guess which 'one' of the three houses they'll choose, but not always. The buyers'll throw in some whiny complaint about a house just to throw the viewers off.

Did you watch the two they've had in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where people buy an empty, concrete-floored flat and have to put in everything themselves? I mean, there's literally 'nothing' there but walls and concrete floors. Kinda weird, I thought; but I guess people do get exactly what they want that way.

I like Mission Reorganization, where they make order out of chaos.

And Freestyle, with that cool Aaron guy, where they just rearrange all the same stuff artistically.

And Clean Sweep, where they take rooms with massive chaos, clutter, and junk, and force the homeowners to throw stuff away. hahaha

I *DON'T* like that Canadian show where a realtor tries to sell someone's old yucky house, and it never sells, and they end up firing the realtor, and the viewer becomes a nervous wreck from all the stress.

Curb Appeal is good. And Designed to Sell. And Landscapers' Challenge. God, there are a ton of these shows. Which do you like best, Paul?

Designed to Sell is great because they take some mediocre, yucky house and spruce it up with just a couple thousand dollars, and usually turn it into a real charmer that would sell instantly.

[psmith2.0]

Holy crap, you ARE a viewer!

I'm not even sure I know the names of many of them, except for "Divine Design" with that tall blonde goofball. Candice, I think?

But I can just about enjoy any of them, as long as they're not too silly or out there. I've seen some of these shows ruin and cheese-up a perfectly good decor.

[Edna Crabtree]

Good luck with the attic space. Recommend ventilation and light.

House Hunters is a good show. There's nothing better than the third-act "re-enactment," scene where the prospective buyer is sitting by the phone, it rings, and *guess what* it's the agent, and THEY GOT TEH HOUSE OMFG ! ! ! 1 !.

I have also noticed a disturbing predilection for homes on this show to have carpeting in the bathrooms, around the toilet. Uh, no. As soon as this gets noticed, either my spouse or myself will shout out, "Pee-Pee Carpet!" That, my friends, is an iron-barge dealbreaker for me.

I also enjoy Suzanne Wang, who almost imperceptibly wiggles/dances when she talks. Almost.

[World Leader Pretend]

OK, update number 2!

My dad and I worked late into the night getting the giant pile of scrap wood out of the attic. We threw it out onto the lawn and then this morning we hauled it all to the dump. There was a lot of it! It was all covered in dirt and soot and old cobwebs.

As promised I made an exterior mockup of the attic for your viewing pleasure:

This is a shot looking up at the front-left corner of the attic.


This is looking from the top at the back-right corner of the attic. The square on the roof is about 10'x10' for scale.


Also, I have been thinking about making a trap-door to cover the opening where the stairs come up:

Any suggestions on how to do that?


I'm thinking that tearing out the wood flooring and putting 3/4" cement-board on beams would help make whatever floor covering I choose go on much easier. Would you tile an attic? I've done lots of tile and I like the look... but how practical is it?


Also I need tips on insulation. About half of the attic is insulated on the walls, but it isn't the greatest. What techniques and types of insulation should I use?


This week we are also shopping for a window A/C to cool the place. 12000 BTUs should do the trick.

Thanks for the helpful advice!

[zippy]

Tile might be a bit heavy. What size are the floor joists, and how far are they spaced? If you do tile, I'd just put down 3/4 plywood with 1/4 cement board on top of that.

Laminate flooring would be another option that is easy to do yourself. Just make sure you put either the foam or felt pad between it and the subfloor or it will be loud for the rooms below, and creak.

If you insulate well, you'll be well on your way to dealing with heat issues.

Looks like a fun project. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend OK, update number 2! My dad and I worked late into the night getting the giant pile of scrap wood out of the attic. We threw it out onto the lawn and then this morning we hauled it all to the dump. There was a lot of it! It was all covered in dirt and soot and old cobwebs. As promised I made an exterior mockup of the attic for your viewing pleasure: This is a shot looking up at the front-left corner of the attic. This is looking from the top at the back-right corner of the attic. The square on the roof is about 10'x10' for scale. Also, I have been thinking about making a trap-door to cover the opening where the stairs come up: Any suggestions on how to do that? I'm thinking that tearing out the wood flooring and putting 3/4" cement-board on beams would help make whatever floor covering I choose go on much easier. Would you tile an attic? I've done lots of tile and I like the look... but how practical is it? Also I need tips on insulation. About half of the attic is insulated on the walls, but it isn't the greatest. What techniques and types of insulation should I use? This week we are also shopping for a window A/C to cool the place. 12000 BTUs should do the trick. Thanks for the helpful advice!

There is no reason to tear up those floor planks. It'd be far more work than its worth and they look like they are in solid condition. I would recommend either
A. Sanding them down finishing them possibly.
B. Installing carpet over them (This may be the best option and cheapest, a nice commercial carpet would help in more ways than 1)
C. Installing a laminate wood flooring over them.

As for the A/C. That window looks too narrow for an air conditioner, especially a 12000 BTU. You may have to get a windowless unit, but it may just be the photo throwing me off.

I wouldn't do a trap door. Kind of seems pointless to me as there is already a door below and a trapdoor will just be awkward when open and unnecessary.

[psmith2.0]

I put laminate cherry wood flooring in my place last year. My dad and I did it in one afternoon...it was a cinch. No glue or mess, just some weirdo tongue/groove thing and you tap them in with a rubber mallet or whatever, and once they click they're really together! You don't really see a seam.

Easiest thing we did in the entire re-do.

Wasn't Pergo, but it was something like it. Bought it for a great price at a local salvage/builder supply place.

Looks awesome!

Yes, buy that 1/4" insulator plastic stuff for noise and all. Goes right now, flooring goes on top of it. All you need is a chop saw to cut your ends to length. You just work your way across the room, going back and forth.

A smallish area like you have, that would look great.

I wouldn't do tile up there...so heavy. Might kill someone below.

As for heating and air, we put in a wall unit thingy, like you might see in a hotel. Does heat and air, reasonably quiet and works REALLY well in a smallish, studio type place like I have. Great AC and heat! But that might be overkill for that space. Just get a small AC unit and maybe a ceiling fan or oscillating floor fan to help spread the coolness and circulate everything?

[709]

SketchUp rules, doesn't it?

Honestly, I don't know that I'd bother with a trap door. It looks like you've already got a door at the foot of the stairs for privacy, and a trap door might be more trouble than it's worth. If you do decide to go that route, I'd suggest something that's split in the middle and hinged on the long edges of the stairwell opening. Or wait...maybe a pulley-system type thing (hinged at the short edge) that you can pull open while standing at the base of the stairs (probably need a tie-off thingy as well)...that might be cool.

I don't know what kind of aesthetic you'll be going for up there, but in my loft I have a similar (though larger) opening coming up from the stairwell, and I built a railing out of 1" electrical EMT and fittings. It looked pretty damn slick if I do say so myself. I used a bunch of the curved 90 degree pipes for edges, and it turned out looking kind of industrial art deco.

If the floors are fairly smooth already you might be able to get away with laying 3/4" MDF or plywood right over the top of them instead of tearing up the existing floorboards. Then tile or whatnot over that. It would cut down on time, and probably be better for reducing noise downstairs too.

Speaking of plywood, in my last office space I had to completely redo the floors because they were carpeted and glued . I took the carpet up, sanded down any odd bumps, screwed down some cheap 3/4" plywood as a baseboard, then layed down some really nice birch plywood over the top. A couple/three passes of clearcoat later I had an awesome looking floor. It went pretty quickly too. (*note: with the existing floor you've got up there I'd probably put a couple screws in each board per joist before you lay anything over the top...just so you don't get any squeaky spots.)

If you decide to tear up the existing floorboards I'd give serious consideration to putting in floor outlets. Not only are they handy but they look cool.

[World Leader Pretend]

Originally Posted by zippy Tile might be a bit heavy. What size are the floor joists, and how far are they spaced? If you do tile, I'd just put down 3/4 plywood with 1/4 cement board on top of that.

They are the same as the wall joists, standard distance. The floor joists themselves are pretty good sized, but I'm not sure if they are a standard length/width since they were installed almost 100 years ago. I would also put plywood underneath anything, especially backerboard.

Originally Posted by zippy Laminate flooring would be another option that is easy to do yourself. Just make sure you put either the foam or felt pad between it and the subfloor or it will be loud for the rooms below, and creak.

I'm not a fan of laminate, it feels cheap. This is also going a long way in the interest of restoring the house, so natural and quality material are a must.

Originally Posted by zippy If you insulate well, you'll be well on your way to dealing with heat issues.

Hopefully

Originally Posted by zippy Looks like a fun project. Good luck, and keep us posted.

I will

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses As for the A/C. That window looks too narrow for an air conditioner, especially a 12000 BTU. You may have to get a windowless unit, but it may just be the photo throwing me off.

Actually I was going to punch a whole in the wall next to a side window and put one there. The window is too small for any AC. Home Depot and Sears seem to have lots of units.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses I wouldn't do a trap door. Kind of seems pointless to me as there is already a door below and a trapdoor will just be awkward when open and unnecessary.

Yeah, I threw that out in the hopes that someone had a really cool solution to the problem. I will probably just cover a bit of the opening over the door so that it won't be a hassle.

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Just get a small AC unit and maybe a ceiling fan or oscillating floor fan to help spread the coolness and circulate everything?

I'm pretty sure that a ceiling fan would take my head off, or maybe just make me paranoid A floor fan is on my list though, there are some nicer "tower" fans that move a lot of air for their size.

Originally Posted by 709 SketchUp rules, doesn't it?

Oh yeah! I'm still getting the hang of it, it's a great tool!

Originally Posted by 709 If you decide to tear up the existing floorboards I'd give serious consideration to putting in floor outlets. Not only are they handy but they look cool.

I'll remember to ask the electrician about them (If I can find one who's not booked till September)


Thanks for the tips as well!

[Fahrenheit]

Would it be possible to stick that sketchup file up? Then I can have a go, you know maybe make some fun designs to maybe give you a bit of inspiration- I did a loft conversion a couple of years ago with my parents- good fun

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend Actually I was going to punch a hole in the wall next to a side window and put one there. The window is too small for any AC. Home Depot and Sears seem to have lots of units.

I'm glad you're not planning on losing a window for the A/C. Windows are at a premium in your attic. If anything, I'd install *more* windows, esp. on the back side of the house where they wouldn't mess up the front house design. Having as many open windows as possible would be a godsend for cross-ventilation during summer. Plus, you'd open that attic to the world a bit more and feel less claustrophobic. In fact, you might consider installing the A/C unit 'under' an existing window, so you can save wall-space for other stuff.

Yeah, I threw that out in the hopes that someone had a really cool solution to the problem. I will probably just cover a bit of the opening over the door so that it won't be a hassle.

What would be *really* nice is if you could figure out a way to do a "pocket-door" - a door that would easily slide (flat) 'into' adjacent flooring to open, and when closed would provide you with floor surface. If you leave the floor open, you'll need safety railings, I imagine, which will clutter up the place, and you'll lose floor surface. There *has* to be a cool way to solve the problem.

Wrt a lifting trapdoor:

If the top of the stairwell opening had fairly deep, recessed ledges, then you could make the trapdoor thick, and safe to walk on, and its weight would rest on the ledges when shut. I think a really smoothly-opening pulley system would be essential, so it would be easy, and not a pain in the neck, to open and close the trapdoor - assuming you couldn't figure out a way to do the sliding pocket-door.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by farenheit Would it be possible to stick that sketchup file up?

I imagine here would be a good place to put it:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/

[colivigan]

Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend I'm not a fan of laminate, it feels cheap. This is also going a long way in the interest of restoring the house, so natural and quality material are a must.

There certainly are some cheap laminates around, but perhaps you shouldn't be so hasty. They're doing marvelous things with "engineered flooring" these days. As an example, we recently had bamboo flooring installed in our living room and dining room, and I think it looks great. This isn't the best photo, but you get the idea.

The other nice thing about bamboo is that it's much more of a renewable resource - you can grow a giant stalk of grass much faster that a cherry tree.

[World Leader Pretend]

Wow! That "laminate" flooring looks nice UncleJohn!

As for the SketchUp file, I'm 98% done with the "exact scale" mockup. I'll upload it to the warehouse and tell you where it is

[k squared]

Since your living in an attic, I'll recommend a book: The Poetics of Space by French philosopher Gaston Bachelard.

[World Leader Pretend]

Cool, I'll have to check it out!

I have also uploaded the exact model to the 3D Warehouse. It is called Attic Pro , but you can search under the terms "loft", "Attic", "old", etc..

EDIT: Here's the link: Attic ready for restoration

[psmith2.0]

That's an AWESOME job you did with that drawing, WLP!

I was spinning it around, looking at it from all angles.

Very nice. Makes me want to hunker down and get more familiar with SketchUp...

[World Leader Pretend]

Thanks pscates! I really had some trouble getting the details right; stuff sometimes doesn't line up correctly and can throw off an entire section It took a while but it was worth it.

The model is also accurate to within an inch of the actual attic, which took some time on the roof with a tape-measure.

I'm glad you like it, try adding a cupola or a small deck somewhere, just for fun.

[Fahrenheit]

Yeh I just tried to do a scale model of my house and the roofs are a bitch.