[atomicbartbeans]

Well, I'll be graduating high school in 2007, and I plan to go to college after that... I just had an hour-long talk with my mom (an English major) about colleges, and the task of finding one sounds quite daunting. I want to go to a 4-year college for computer science, possibly networking, programming, industrial design, electronics, mechanical engineering... my dream job is to work for Apple one day (whose isn't?). Anybody want to give me a hand?

What I'm looking for in a college
-technical school (at least tech-oriented)
-smaller schools are preferable
-less core requirements = better
-continental United States
-state schools are preferable (cheaper), but still open to private schools
-Mac-friendly school network, student body, and faculty
-*reliable, fast (upstream! ), unrestrictive internet access in dorm rooms*

That's about all I'm concerned about right now... anybody have recommendations? Suggestions, comments, rants, anecdotes are all welcome.

[Brad]

If money is an issue, even public "state" schools are going to be relatively expensive (nearly as much as private) because you'll be paying out-of-state fees.

[atomicbartbeans]

Well, I live in upstate New York.

I'm still open to private schools, as there's a good chance I'll be receiving scholarship money.

[billybobsky]

Not all private schools offer merit based scholarships...

Which, IMO, is a good thing (tm).

[Elysium]

Considering you live in Upstate New York I can give you some advice (same home town regions). The SUNY system has gotten worse in scholarship money in the last few years, and will most likely cost a pretty penny.

For tech-oriented and computer science I would suggest looking into SUNY Morrisville. Great programs, but the only problem is that this is a real rural college and the campus life isn't the greatest. Other state schools I would look hard at are SUNY Geneseo and Buffalo (both great schools).

If private schools aren't that much of an issue, I would look towards either St. Lawrence University (I am an alumn) or Clarkson. Clarkson is more tech oriented, but both are really excellent schools.

From the Mac side, I would also recommend the University of Maine at Orono (I am doing my grad school work here). Probably 75-80% of the administration and faculty use Macs (predominantly eMacs and iMac G5s). While the student computer labs are still ironically a PC majority, campus is extremely mac friendly and the internet access is excellent as well.

Keep your options open, and choose wisely. College is an excellent time in your life, plan accordingly...

[atomicbartbeans]

Thanks for the advice! I'll write these down.

[eventhorizon]

Linky.

[ShadowOfGed]

Of course I'm going to have to vouch for my university. I am biased.

I'd recommend any of the land-grant universities from around the country. I attend Virginia Tech, which is out of Blacksburg, VA. Great school, great campus, great people. It does cater to about 25,000 students during the fall and spring, so I wouldn't call it a "small school," but Blacksburg is definitely a small town, and you'd be hard pressed to find a university in a smaller town.

It's also home to the (in)famous System X supercomputer, running on lots of Xserves. We're currently working on making the College of Engineering more Mac-friendly. Even if some engineering software is Windows-only, the Engineering software bundle for students includes Virtual PC, so that's not a problem.

I'm currently working towards a double- or triple- major in electrical engineering (EE), computer science (CS), and maybe computer engineering (CPE), which is mostly a mix of the first two. I'd venture to say that most of Apple's technical positions are related to these three fields, excluding the design of enclosures and packaging.

About core requirements. Yeah, we have a bunch, but I'd say most people who genuinely put some elbow grease into their schoolwork will come out better for it. I got a lot of mine done through AP courses in high school (thus giving me enough AP credits to attempt this double-major in 4/5 years). However, I took some music theory courses, which I've wanted to do for quite some time. There is more to life than just the technical side of things; I've since found myself very intrigued by the (laugh if you want) video game music remixing scene. Sounds funny, but it's a great way for me to combine my interest in music, interest in computers, and relive some memories of old.

Oh, and one more thing about core requirements. I'm working at IBM this semester. It's absolutely unbelieveable how poor some people's written English is. There is no way to explain how important good English and presentation skills will be, despite the common peception that "engineers shouldn't need to take English courses." If only...

I'm going to list some other schools based on where I applied, as well as what I've heard. I only applied to the first three below... anyway, here goes:

• Virginia Tech - This is my school. Great school, and I love it. Really friendly professors. There aren't many other schools where it's common to see professors outside of class, either by chance or by arrangement.
• NC State - Where I almost went. If you can stomach the campus, the academics are good.
• Georgia Tech - Excellent school, but it's essentially guaranteed to overwork you. I wanted to have a life and some free time, but still go to a good school.
• MIT - Yeah, about that overworking thing... think: Georgia Tech, but on steroids. Do some careful reading about MIT. It's a phenomenal school, but there are a lot of reasons I didn't want to go there, even though I probably could have gotten in.
• Penn State - I know nothing about this university, but I see tons of PSU grads at IBM, so I get the feeling that it's a great engineering school as well. It's probably closer to you, as well.

There are many, many more schools to look at, I'm sure. Don't base your decisions solely off of what I say here; picking a college is an extremely critical decision in your life, and it's up to you. I'm providing pointers so you can get started evaluating them on your own.

Some tips:

1. Visit the campus for every school to which you apply, if at all possible. I cannot emphasize this enough. Even if it looks good on paper, you don't want to spend four years at a college where you just don't feel "at home," for lack of a better term.
2. Investigate things like student-to-faculty ratio, to get an idea of how much time a professor will have (or be willing) to spend with students outside of class to help them understand material. At VT, professors are extremely good about trying to help you if you ask. I can't vouch for other schools, but having "friendly" professors can sometimes be more important than "brilliant" professors. On that note...
3. Don't be afraid to ask questions! This applies while investigating universities, making campus visits, and most importantly after you start. There's nothing that professors hate more than a student who doesn't understand material but won't ask questions, doesn't come to class, and/or doesn't come to his/her office hours. Sometimes, doing the above even if you do understand can get you some brownie points. At the very least, it lets a professor get to know you personally, rather than just as "another student." It might make the difference between a B+ and an A-, you never know...
4. Read this article. It's something to watch out for at higher-caliber universities, and it's a complaint I've heard about both Georgia Tech and MIT. My previous point should emphasize why this can be a serious problem sometimes.
5. Don't be pressured into or out of a particular university. Just don't let where your friends are going or what they say influence where you do or don't choose to go. I didn't have any friends when I got to VT, but I was in the honors dorm, and I've met so many great people. And I still have all my old friends from high school, too.

I could go on, I'm sure. I hope this is some decent advice to help you sort out where you'd like to go. There are lots of resources available to you when looking for a university; some universities will make campus visits to your high school. There are "rankings" for universities, which can sometimes give you some information about a university you're considering, but don't let those make your final decision, because they're just numbers. For example, places like MIT and Georgia Tech rank really high, but I've heard that the student experience isn't so great.

In the end, look around, and choose what's best for you. College will be the best four years of your life, believe it or not. Believe me, I'd know, since I did a whole year, but now this semester at IBM has been really painful; I've hated missing out on the college thing. I can't wait to go back. I hope you'll look forward to it as well.

Cheers! Oh, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by ShadowOfGed I'd recommend any of the land-grant universities from around the country. I attend Virginia Tech, which is out of Blacksburg, VA. Great school, great campus, great people. It does cater to about 25,000 students during the fall and spring, so I wouldn't call it a "small school," but Blacksburg is definitely a small town, and you'd be hard pressed to find a university in a smaller town.

Virginia Tech teh sucks... Sorry this is my Big East bias kicking in... Syracuse 1-8 baby... Yeah...

Originally Posted by ShadowOfGed Some tips: Visit the campus for every school to which you apply, if at all possible. I cannot emphasize this enough. Even if it looks good on paper, you don't want to spend four years at a college where you just don't feel "at home," for lack of a better term. Investigate things like student-to-faculty ratio, to get an idea of how much time a professor will have (or be willing) to spend with students outside of class to help them understand material. At VT, professors are extremely good about trying to help you if you ask. I can't vouch for other schools, but having "friendly" professors can sometimes be more important than "brilliant" professors. On that note... Don't be afraid to ask questions! This applies while investigating universities, making campus visits, and most importantly after you start. There's nothing that professors hate more than a student who doesn't understand material but won't ask questions, doesn't come to class, and/or doesn't come to his/her office hours. Sometimes, doing the above even if you do understand can get you some brownie points. At the very least, it lets a professor get to know you personally, rather than just as "another student." It might make the difference between a B+ and an A-, you never know... Read this article. It's something to watch out for at higher-caliber universities, and it's a complaint I've heard about both Georgia Tech and MIT. My previous point should emphasize why this can be a serious problem sometimes. Don't be pressured into or out of a particular university. Just don't let where your friends are going or what they say influence where you do or don't choose to go. I didn't have any friends when I got to VT, but I was in the honors dorm, and I've met so many great people. And I still have all my old friends from high school, too. I could go on, I'm sure. I hope this is some decent advice to help you sort out where you'd like to go. There are lots of resources available to you when looking for a university; some universities will make campus visits to your high school. There are "rankings" for universities, which can sometimes give you some information about a university you're considering, but don't let those make your final decision, because they're just numbers. For example, places like MIT and Georgia Tech rank really high, but I've heard that the student experience isn't so great. In the end, look around, and choose what's best for you. College will be the best four years of your life, believe it or not. Believe me, I'd know, since I did a whole year, but now this semester at IBM has been really painful; I've hated missing out on the college thing. I can't wait to go back. I hope you'll look forward to it as well.

Excellent advice... I fell in love with St. Lawrence after visiting there... Visit as much as possible, and only go to where you feel at home...

[eventhorizon]

On a more serious note, it's way more important to do something that you ENJOY than what college you attend. Don't get tempted into doing something you kinda/sorta like but for which you have no passion only because the money is better. I made that mistake and two degrees later I'm back in school for an 8th year pursuing my real passion.

[Elysium]

In a side note:

What were your first two degrees in? ...and what are you studying now?

Just curious.

[eventhorizon]

BS Business Information Systems
MBA

Now going into astrophysics (though I'm actually having third thoughts and may do astronautical engineering...meeting with profs after midterms for some counseling...)

[Elysium]

I like the change...

Keep it up so you can send a geologist to Mars (aka... ME )...

[eventhorizon]

Sure, though I'm going too! Though I like Kim Stanley Robinson's term for geology on Mars: areology.

[Elysium]

That's great...

Although I would be a bit hesitant to go on a space voyage with someone whose AN name is in reference to a spaceship that went into the depths of Hell...

[eventhorizon]

Though a good movie, it's more a reference to the perimeter around a black hole where the escape velocity is the speed of light.

[Elysium]

much better...



atomicbartbeans, sorry if we've hijacked your thread...

[atomicbartbeans]

Wow... again, I underestimated you guys. I've gotten more useful advice from this thread than endless piles of college pamphlets that our high school's guidance department pinches out.

cynical_rock, no worries. My friend says St. Lawrence is a party school... is this true?

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by cynical_rock Virginia Tech teh sucks... Sorry this is my Big East bias kicking in... Syracuse 1-8 baby... Yeah...

I was trying to keep athletics out of this, because in the scheme of things, they're not that important. I must say, however, that watching Miami wipe the floor with our team in Lane Stadium last week was... well, a bit embarrassing. Um, Go Hokies! (8-1)

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Wow... again, I underestimated you guys. I've gotten more useful advice from this thread than endless piles of college pamphlets that our high school's guidance department pinches out. cynical_rock, no worries. My friend says St. Lawrence is a party school... is this true?

Well I think I speak for everyone when I say we're glad to help. Though with help comes a tendency to completely, totally, and utterly hijack your thread... :smokey:

[atomicbartbeans]

ShadowOfGed, you've contributed quite a bit (so has cynical_rock)... go ahead and hijack.

cynical_rock, funny you mention it... I went to an SU pre-season game last Thursday.

[Elysium]

Well, we do like to have some fun...

• One frat was named the Pharmacy during the 80's... use your imagination...
• It's a small school in a small town... Hence parties tend to be located on campus...
• The Snowbowl party was rated no. 7 on Playboy's list of theme parties... Not bad for a small school in Upstate NY...

But if you want a balanced education (liberal arts) there are worse places to go... But I had a damn good time while being there, graduated Summa Cum Laude, and got into grad school... Any place where you can party your ass off and have a good education is a winner in my book...

[atomicbartbeans]

Actually, SUNY Cortland (which I live about 300 feet from) was once rated #2 party school in the country by Playboy.

I kid you not (ask Undertaker), a college party 2 doors down last night turned into a brawl, complete with an ambulance, a concussion, broken ribs, blood all over my driveway, and cops. Living in a college town can be interesting, when it's a party school...

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by cynical_rock Well, we do like to have some fun... One frat was named the Pharmacy during the 80's... use your imagination... It's a small school in a small town... Hence parties tend to be located on campus... The Snowbowl party was rated no. 7 on Playboy's list of theme parties... Not bad for a small school in Upstate NY... But if you want a balanced education (liberal arts) there are worse places to go... But I had a damn good time while being there, graduated Summa Cum Laude, and got into grad school... Any place where you can party your ass off and have a good education is a winner in my book...

Yeah, as much as I don't always like to admit it, Blacksburg is a "drinking town with a football problem"

I have to second that... small schools and small towns definitely up the party factor, it seems. I don't party very much, so it's not a problem for me... but if you're the partying type, just make sure it doesn't interfere with your schoolwork, but do make sure to have plenty of fun!

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans I went to an SU pre-season game last Thursday.

Hopefully it was a basketball game... At least that future is immediately hopeful...

[atomicbartbeans]

Yup. I was a little surprised when Cornell took the lead briefly in the 2nd half, but it was still a good game.

[Elysium]

I seem to be getting all sorts of love from this thread...

College it too fun... those of you that are about to enter it... live it up... Friends you make there will be friends for life... And even if St Lawrence is a party school I will continue to recommend it....

In a side note... All suffering Syracuse football fans... Greg Robinson is improving then recruiting class... the good times shall come again...

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans Well, I live in upstate New York. I'm still open to private schools, as there's a good chance I'll be receiving scholarship money.

I don't want to sound terribly cynical or bitter, but it's sorta hard not to.

I got a measly scholarship from the honors program. The other 6 electrical engineers in my dorm (who are the same year as I am) got full-ride scholarships. The problem being... they're the ones asking me questions. They pretty much unanimously agree that it's a shame I got so ripped off, but that's just how it goes.

Work hard to get what scholarship money you can, but don't set yourself up to be let down, because life isn't always fair. And my family is paying the price. To the tune of ... more money than I'd like to think about. Out of state tuition is painful.

[theyoda3]

What about Rochester Institute of Technology? It is a private school, but a little mpore reasonable. They are around $30,000 i think, but you can get aid. So, something to look into. If you have high financial need and good grades, you could take a shot at Cornell because you can get quite a bit of aid if you get in.

[atomicbartbeans]

I've heard tell that RIT places a very heavy workload on students. This true?

Cornell has a beautiful setting (Ithaca rocks!), but it's a little too close to home for me (about 20 minutes). I want to see the world a little...