User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » General Discussion »

Has your excitement/enthusiasm for this stuff waned since Jobs's passing?


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Has your excitement/enthusiasm for this stuff waned since Jobs's passing?
Page 1 of 2 [1] 2  Next Thread Tools
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 13:07

Just curious.

I hate to say it, but I find myself not really caring much about what's going on with/at Apple these days. I still think they're the best at what they're doing, but it just doesn't feel quite the same anymore.

Any new product rollouts simply won't get that extra push or "spark" he provided.

Kinda feels "stock" or business-as-usual. I know his DNA is there and as long as people like Schiller, Ive, Forstall, etc. are around it kinda feels "right".

But there's definitely something missing/off now.

Was talking about this with someone the other day...was wondering if it was just me.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 13:19

Don't get me wrong...I look forward to the new iPad, new notebooks and iMac designs, new iLife and iWork releases and I'll be getting the next-generation iPhone (5?) later this year.

But, for me, it's built-in momentum/enthusiasm that creates it, knowing there won't be any cool, memorable RDF moments during any of these introductions.

I think we're going to miss this more than we realize.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 13:20

Not in the least. I have the feeling Jobs' had a long-term vision for Apple that we're about to get a glimpse of this year. Now, that vision hasn't always served them well - and if they come out with another G4 Cube (Apple iTV ?) it may feel like a post-Jobs Apple is going downhill, but I truly believe that they have the culture and impetus to still create another one or two wtf-why-didn't-anyone-else-think-of-that products in the next 3 years.

So it goes.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 13:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But, for me, it's built-in momentum/enthusiasm that creates it, knowing there won't be any cool, memorable RDF moments during any of these introductions.
I think this is where Jony Ive steps in. If (nay, when) they come up with the Next Big Thing, he will be there to give a little backstory and sheen to it - and maybe invoke a little "Steve and I were working on this for years" story.

Obviously, 3-5 years down the road Apple will be really and truly entering the post-Jobs era. We'll see where there are at that point.

So it goes.
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-02-02, 13:26

No not just you. I kinda feel a bit the same.
  quote
Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-02-02, 13:38

I think I'll need some more time to make up my mind about this. It's pretty clear that things will be different post Steve, but it's just too early to tell exactly how right now. Sure Tim, Ive and Phil are not Steve, but then again, who was expecting that anyway?
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 13:39

The company itself is strong, no doubt. And there will be many new "wow!!" products to come.

It'll just be different, I guess.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-02-02, 13:40

Idunno. Apple hasn't really introduced much of anything since Steve's passing, so I think it's a little too soon to say that Apple is less exciting or missing its spark. It's just been November, December, and January, and Apple normally doesn't release products in November, December, and January.

What they have announced — the iBooks / iTunes U stuff — looked like a minor revolution in its own right, though one admittedly a bit removed from the general consumer market.

I'm excited for the next iPad, which should be a nice iterative improvement (dat display), but I'm even more excited for the next MacBook Pro and iMac, which should be real steps forward (or backward, if you like optical drives — the wailing will be glorious) for PCs. And I'm most excited of all for Apple's Next Big Thing, which I think will be an app-centric television.

Apple only introduced one "new design" in 2011, so it was a bit of an off year for shiny new Apple products even before Steve's passing. (The exciting things about last year were the businessy stuff — watching Apple take over the world, and seeing the first signs of Apples outside of Apple, with things like Nest.) I think, if anything, 2012 will be more exciting than 2011.

How fast do you think WWDC will sell out this year? Eight seconds?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 13:58

Not at all. I just read Jobs biography. He won a lot of battles at Apple, but the biggest was probably getting the people he wanted in all the key places. He won't be fighting any more battles, but he gave enough of an indication about what was coming and what he saw as important. TV, more publishing, and the cloud. This is the future of the company. Relative to the digital hub/lifestytle, it was interesting that he talked about the desktop in terms of the innovator's dilemma - that it wasn't devices that would replace it as the digital hub, but the cloud itself.

.........................................
  quote
El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2012-02-02, 15:14

I think the excitement has waned but it has nothing to do with Jobs passing and everything to do with Apple's erratic and static progress of late.

Their software apps simply aren't being updated. The various Mac lines have gotten little more than spec updates for the last few years. The iPhone, thank goodness is still somewhat fresh even with most internal updates because it is still so far ahead of the game in many ways. The iPod line has been the same for 16 months now.

The other side of the coin is there are indeed exciting developments in other places and it sort of brings you down when they are getting them and Apple is just sitting there.

This is a prime example of what has got me a bit down about Apple.

It isn't even that new. If Apple had something similiar in the pipeline but needed to be a few months behind to line up the ability to make MILLIONS of them instead of a a hundred thousand, Apple fans like myself can understand.

Instead we have several new watch faces.

Now I know people might say it's a dying market, but it isn't. It is exactly the type of market Apple does best in with regard to being vertical and high margin. Apple doesn't do $20 sneakers. They do the best $200 running shoes as an analogy. If Apple had a GPS Nike+ running/biking app and wireless syncing enabled iPod Nano that allowed bluetooth headsets with good battery life, they could sell it for $200-$250 easily and the people most likely to buy it probably already own plenty of other iDevices. They could let Nike offer a heart monitor with it that works via bluetooth as well. Think about all the other very beautiful and expensive accessories Apple could offer to all those folks who buy $1000-$2500 bikes.

I don't even want to mention how many people I see out there running with older iPod Nano's or iPod Shuffles and $200-$300 Garmin watches. Apple helped create this market segment so the omission here is very telling in my opinion.

Apple towers used to start at $1500. It doesn't really matter if Apple can give you an iMac a similar price point because those used to start at $1000. Apple feels far too much like 1991-1992 right now when their products cost double to triple the competition but it was fine because they had the best solutions for many market segments. I'm not stating outright Apple is going to have some sort of deep troubles. They might just be the IBM or Microsoft of the next 5-10 years.

I was never excited or enthusiastic for those companies though.
  quote
jdcfsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2012-02-02, 16:05

I'm more excited for upcoming iPad releases then ever before, mainly because I've got it set in my head that I will be purchasing.

The only thing that seems different to me, is the amount of information that has come out about the operation of the company. It seems that under Steve it was a sealed environment, but Tim is more press-friendly. Has nothing to do with products or excitement, just two different styles of dealing with information.

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
Website | Twitter
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-02-02, 16:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo View Post
I think the excitement has waned but it has nothing to do with Jobs passing and everything to do with Apple's erratic and static progress of late.


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
Their software apps simply aren't being updated.
iBooks 2.0? iTunes U? Oh, do you mean their Mac apps? Because Final Cut Pro X just got a big update earlier this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
The various Mac lines have gotten little more than spec updates for the last few years. The iPhone, thank goodness is still somewhat fresh even with most internal updates because it is still so far ahead of the game in many ways. The iPod line has been the same for 16 months now.
The genre-defining MacBook Air design is fifteen months old. The iPods have been dropping in price rather than receiving hardware updates, not because Apple can't update them, but because that's the best way for them to stay relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
The other side of the coin is there are indeed exciting developments in other places and it sort of brings you down when they are getting them and Apple is just sitting there.

This is a prime example of what has got me a bit down about Apple.

It isn't even that new. If Apple had something similiar in the pipeline but needed to be a few months behind to line up the ability to make MILLIONS of them instead of a a hundred thousand, Apple fans like myself can understand.

Instead we have several new watch faces.

Now I know people might say it's a dying market, but it isn't. It is exactly the type of market Apple does best in with regard to being vertical and high margin. Apple doesn't do $20 sneakers. They do the best $200 running shoes as an analogy. If Apple had a GPS Nike+ running/biking app and wireless syncing enabled iPod Nano that allowed bluetooth headsets with good battery life, they could sell it for $200-$250 easily and the people most likely to buy it probably already own plenty of other iDevices. They could let Nike offer a heart monitor with it that works via bluetooth as well. Think about all the other very beautiful and expensive accessories Apple could offer to all those folks who buy $1000-$2500 bikes.
That doesn't seem to be a huge market, though.

It's not like Apple has the ability to make MILLIONS of a thing, and Motorola doesn't. Motorola could pump out millions of those watch things if they wanted to; it's selling millions of them that's hard. You're looking at it backwards: the hard part isn't merely producing millions of a thing, it's making a thing that millions and millions of people will want.

Apple can't do everything, and even if they could that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea to try. Focus is a good thing. If Apple has the choice between, say, making a $250 sport-tracking watch or reinventing television, which do you think they'd prefer?

I'm not saying a $250 sport-tracking watch couldn't be a good and profitable product. I hope some company will be the Apple of sport-tracking watches and really knock it out of the park. But Apple's not that company. They have enough massively huge markets left to conquer that anything less — sport-tracking watches, e-ink readers, what have you — is a distraction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
Apple towers used to start at $1500. It doesn't really matter if Apple can give you an iMac a similar price point because those used to start at $1000.
Apple's towers are a lot more powerful now, too. They didn't just take their $1500 Power Mac G4 and bump the price up $1,000, they replaced it with a higher-end, workstation-class machine. And yes, the existence of iMacs in that mid-range price point does matter, because what we're really talking about is Apple's exiting of the mid-range tower market. Apple doesn't feel that a mid-range tower is worth the investment; their position is that most non-professional users don't need/want the benefits of the tower and they'd rather sell the workstation-class Mac Pro to those professionals who do. (For now; Apple might exit this market eventually too.)

By the way, there's a Mac mini for $599, which is (adjusted for inflation) roughly tied with the 2005 Mac mini as the cheapest Mac ever. So.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
Apple feels far too much like 1991-1992 right now when their products cost double to triple the competition
Example of an Apple product that costs three times as much as comparable competition? Right now HP, et al. are struggling to compete with Apple's pricing on "ultrabooks."

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
I'm not stating outright Apple is going to have some sort of deep troubles. They might just be the IBM or Microsoft of the next 5-10 years.

I was never excited or enthusiastic for those companies though.
I guess I'm confused as to what your point is. Apple is the new Microsoft because...they won't make some sport-tracking watch? Or a midrange tower? Is Motorola more innovative than Apple now, because they do make a sport-tracking watch? That seems to be what you're suggesting, but you're not saying it, probably because it's ridiculous.

Innovation isn't a zero-sum game. Some other company making a niche product that's relevant to your interests doesn't use up some of the finite Innovation Pie, or take some from Apple, or anything. Apple doesn't make sport-tracking watches not because they're not innovative enough to be able to, but because they're not interested in that market. It's the same reason they don't make thermostats or coffeemakers or microwaves. If Samsung makes an innovative microwave, and Apple doesn't, does that mean Samsung is more innovative than Apple?

Apple is not the only company in the universe, so them not making Product X is not always a strike against them.

But if you think Motorola is going to be more interesting to follow than Apple in the years ahead, by all means, go ahead and follow them. You could start a blog with a nonsensical name like Challenging Parasol. You could own the Motorola beat. You could even register MotorolaNova. But me? I'm staying here, because I think here is where the fun is going to be, sport-tracking watches or not.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 16:11

Oh snap.

+ points for Robo because he said pretty much what I would've said but without profanity*.



* Given, I can somehow say "thank you" with profanity involved. :/
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2012-02-02, 16:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo View Post
I think the excitement has waned but it has nothing to do with Jobs passing
I agree up to this point. Here's a cynical view of what it has to do with: they're no longer the cool underdog. Apple's now getting the recognition us 'fanboy's had been fighting for for a decade for them to get. In terms of sales. Revenue. Media attention. Customer base. Stock value. About the only thing that has remained constant is customer satisfaction.

Apple's doing so insanely well that, while there's obviously plenty of things we wished were better (bitch, where my iWork '12 at), it's hard to long for something even greater. There's simply no more need to keep looking for that "I wish this time they get it right" rumor, because they have — with OS X, the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad. (And, perhaps, soon, iCloud.)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2012-02-02, 16:18

Oh, and <3 Robo.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 16:18

I need to clarify...this has nothing to do with their performance, relevance, etc. I DO NOT think "they're in trouble", or anything like that.

I just think some new things - or major updates to existing to existing products - will miss the razzle-dazzle and showmanship of some of this famous unveilings over the past 10 or so years.

Like I said, it'll just be different. Not a decrease in quality or value, but without those demos and RDF-drenched intros, it going to feel a bit "less than" in some ways, that's all.

That was always a big, fun part of this stuff...watching him work the room and making even the most pedestrian, expected feature seem so much more.

I'm not making any "they're doomed!" statements here, I promise.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 16:20

re: chucker

But it still doesn't feel like it, does it? There's still so much holdover resentment wrt Apple always doing is cleaner, prettier and most importantly, better.

So it goes.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 16:25

Indeed. In some quarters, Apple is despised now more than ever...because they finally do present a real threat (or viable alternative) to companies or approaches that probably never thought they could.

They're not just "computers for hippie graphic types" anymore...and that's killing some people.

Let's face it...there is no "tablet market". There's the iPad...then everything else fighting for the leftovers. you know that sticks in the butt of certain people!
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 16:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I just think some new things - or major updates to existing to existing products - will miss the razzle-dazzle and showmanship of some of this famous unveilings over the past 10 or so years.

Like I said, it'll just be different. Not a decrease in quality or value, but without those demos and RDF-drenched intros, it going to feel a bit "less than" in some ways, that's all.

That was always a big, fun part of this stuff...watching him work the room and making even the most pedestrian, expected feature seem so much more
Well, that much is true. We're never going to get the guy that "gets it" giving a demo of any tech and selling it from the hip. I agree, that era is over, sad as it is to say that. What we will get though are solid tech demonstrations, and solid reasons why this Apple thing is better than anything else out there.

I'll miss Steve's excitement, don't get me wrong, but I still expect an exciting announcement twice a year. That it will be given by more technical people shouldn't be a reason to be less excited.

So it goes.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2012-02-02, 16:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
re: chucker

But it still doesn't feel like it, does it? There's still so much holdover resentment wrt Apple always doing is cleaner, prettier and most importantly, better.
Oh, absolutely. Even though iPhones can be found in all sorts of social classes, and even though you'll have a hard-time walking into a tram where there isn't at least a handful of people with them, there's a notion that those using them in public are 'snobs'.

A big problem Apple hasn't solved at all is the widespread misunderstanding of what design is. I still see plenty of so-called 'design' or 'designer' products which are neither well-designed nor otherwise justified in costing more than their 'non-design' counterparts.

Because of that incomplete or incorrect understanding, people resent Apple products for being 'overpriced', and conclude that their buyers must be idiots.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-02-02, 16:51

Maybe you're just missing Steve, Paul? I miss him too. The man was pretty much the last of the geniuses, and that we spent most of our adult lives connected with him, well, sure, I feel a hole.

Obviously we know the disconnect, but there was something there that went beyond the "he had a hand in designing this machine that I work on." It was always something personal. I have a dozen stories, as do you.

My gf's dad gave me the book for Xmas, and I still don't want to read it. Maybe I feel like it would be the end of an era for me. Maybe I don't want it to end. But it is, and it did.

So it goes.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2012-02-02 at 17:03.
  quote
addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2012-02-02, 16:53

Can't help but notice that in the wake of Apple's historic blow-out financials there's a sudden rush of making Apple synecdoche for corporate evil, ala the peculiar notion that Apple, and Apple alone, is responsible for prevailing working conditions in Chinese factories.

It's inevitable, I guess, in that the big dog is going to draw attention, but it is kind of depressing to see comments sections bristling with "Maybe Apple can give some of that to their slaves" or "once Apple controls all of our lives maybe they'll let us jump off their roof" and the like.

Not that I don't fully support workers rights and whatever can be done to improve the lot of the average Chinese assembly line employee, it's just that pretending that it's an Apple problem (and the concomitant attitude that analysis of same begins and ends with "Apple sux") just so deeply misses the point.

Anywho, the timing of "Apple destroys all before it" and "Boycott Apple they have slaves" seems..... provocative.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2012-02-02, 16:56

Also, I agree with Paul's premise: without Steve, there isn't quite the buzz (for me). Partly because Steve, for everything else he was, was a bit of a lunatic, meaning that any given product introduction had at least the potential to be mind blowing (for good or ill).

Still, as others have pointed out, it's early days and we haven't seen much of the post-Jobs pipeline. I guess the real test will be a few years out, after the roadmap is exhausted and Apple is truly running on its own steam.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-02-02, 17:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I agree up to this point. Here's a cynical view of what it has to do with: they're no longer the cool underdog. Apple's now getting the recognition us 'fanboy's had been fighting for for a decade for them to get. In terms of sales. Revenue. Media attention. Customer base. Stock value. About the only thing that has remained constant is customer satisfaction.

(...)
Agreed. Yet the Apple Death Knell Counter is still ticking, though, the entries are now so ridiculous that people seem to have forgotten about the site. It's also very satisfying how the Apple critics around me have changed from disdainful arrogance to either getting bed with Apple themselves or whining about Apple being "closed" compared to Android. So these days I spend most of my time trying to explain why Android is not as open (except to malware) as these guys think and that Mac OS can actually run applictions that aren't approved by Apple.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-02-02, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Obviously we know the disconnect, but there was something there that went beyond the "he had a hand in designing this machine that I work on." It was always something personal.
I don't know. I think designing a thing for someone or a group of people actually is, itself, a fairly personal act.

It's like giving someone a gift. When you give someone a gift, you're really curating a small portion of their lives. You're putting a book on their bookshelves or a picture on their wall or what have you, and if you're really good you'll delight them with something that they'll love and would never think of getting for themselves. You're putting your fingerprint on their lives. That's why we say "it's the thought that counts."

Design is similar. Design is all about making choices for the user. This is why we care about brands; we want to buy from designers that share our values and will make choices that we appreciate. If you think about it, there's a tremendous amount of trust involved in purchasing a product. Maybe not something simple, like a light bulb. With a light bulb, we pretty much trust that it will A) fit into the socket, B) produce light and C) not explode. We don't expect much from our light bulbs. But with something complicated, like a computer, sharing values with the designer becomes much more important. We want it to not annoy us with things we don't want to be bothered with, and not make us learn things we don't want to have to learn, and present information in a way that makes intuitive sense to us. We want it to read our minds, essentially, and we're staring at the screen all day, so yes, we want it to look nice too.

The more complicated a thing is, the more choices you make when designing it, and the more of you shines through the finished product. Is it any wonder that vehicle and computer brands have the most stereotypically loyal users? They're the most complicated consumer products. At the end of the day, I don't care much if the designers of my dishwasher share my values or not. Choosing a dishwasher is like choosing a kitten; I'd like one that looks nice but I'm reasonably sure I'd be happy with any of them. But choosing a computer or a car, that's more like choosing a spouse. You're gonna have to live with it, day in and day out, so you better choose one that shares your values and doesn't nag you with pop-ups.

The choices that Apple makes put their collective fingerprints on my life every time I use one of their products. And Apple's values were Steve's values, because Steve built Apple. So I don't think it's odd to feel a personal connection with the people who "designed this machine that I work on." Computer design is design at its most intimate; you're not just designing to fit people's feet or hands or waistlines, but to fit the very way they think and feel. If that's not personal, then I don't know what is.

I do take issue with your suggestion that Jobs was the last of the geniuses, though. I think there will be more Steves to inspire us in the future.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2012-02-02, 17:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post

I do take issue with your suggestion that Jobs was the last of the geniuses, though. I think there will be more Steves to inspire us in the future.
But the crazy thing about Steve is the degree to which he managed to infuse his personal artistic vision into this huge, make billions of devices company. I have no doubt there are plenty more geniuses to come, some of them with a unique vision of technology which may have a real impact on our lives. I wonder, though, how often you get someone who can make you feel as if you're buying a handcrafted one-off produced by a slightly eccentric visionary while simultaneously cranking them out like donuts.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2012-02-02, 19:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post

No worries man. You remember that guy at everyone's parties in 2007 that was telling them their house was going to be worth half of what it was then in a few short years. That guy was me, so I got that look a lot when we were all celebrating the new pool and backyard bbq's put in with those amazing second mortgages.

Quote:
iBooks 2.0? iTunes U? Oh, do you mean their Mac apps? Because Final Cut Pro X just got a big update earlier this week.
iTunes U was already there and so was iBooks 2.0. The bumps on them just aren't that big a deal. FCP X, well I've posted in that thread and obviously taking several months to put back several of the features you took out of the prior program or broke compatiability with all the industry to solutions that worked with it and ticked everyone off isn't my definition of innovation. It's more like stopping the stink. Between Apple not offering any sort of official blueray use/authoring, dropping the ball on FCP and iMovie both of which had their revamps declared stinkers, and ticking off a good chunk of the industry in these areas, Apple has been writing off good chunks of video/film making.


Quote:
The genre-defining MacBook Air design is fifteen months old. The iPods have been dropping in price rather than receiving hardware updates, not because Apple can't update them, but because that's the best way for them to stay relevant.
You are right that the MBA is 15 months old. That means everyone else is finally catching up and it is one of the few products that has a great price to value ratio. That's sort of the point. Folks in these forums are the types that are saying "Well I can't afford a $2500-3000 Mac tower so I'll hackintosh that, but at least I'll go true Mac with the MBA since it is a great value." Apple lost the tower money from said customers and now might have to eat profit margins or marketshare on the remaining great products if they do not improve.

Quote:
That doesn't seem to be a huge market, though.
The sports stuff is huge. I've frankly been shocked at how huge and expensive it is for the folks that do it. The cycling event I'm doing in two weekends will have about 9,000 riders. There are dozens of these events every weekend all over the place. It might not be huge in your circles but if you get into those circles it is big.

Quote:
It's not like Apple has the ability to make MILLIONS of a thing, and Motorola doesn't. Motorola could pump out millions of those watch things if they wanted to; it's selling millions of them that's hard. You're looking at it backwards: the hard part isn't merely producing millions of a thing, it's making a thing that millions and millions of people will want.
Take the portable GPS devices being sold for a few hundred and largely being used in cars. Those might seem niche but they actually were a pretty huge market that was killed by smartphones. The dollars are there to grab. Motorola won't sell millions becaue their device links only with Moto phones and uses Moto services for the GPS tracking which means no big network effect. Apple clearly can do better there in terms of linking with iPhones, or just using iTunes and Nike+ which already has the habits and data of millions of users.

Quote:
Apple can't do everything, and even if they could that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea to try. Focus is a good thing. If Apple has the choice between, say, making a $250 sport-tracking watch or reinventing television, which do you think they'd prefer?
Given the margins and pricing on their AppleTV and on most TV's, I'd say go sport oriented iPod.

Quote:
I'm not saying a $250 sport-tracking watch couldn't be a good and profitable product. I hope some company will be the Apple of sport-tracking watches and really knock it out of the park. But Apple's not that company. They have enough massively huge markets left to conquer that anything less — sport-tracking watches, e-ink readers, what have you — is a distraction.
They don't have to conquer all of those markets. One feature added to the right current device can grab a good chunk of the profits from those existing markets while keeping the current profits. Apple doesn't need an e-ink reader. They have more profits by adding iBooks to the iPad/iPhone. It isn't something foreign from what they are doing now. It is complementary. The reasoning you are using is like those who said "iPad, but it's just a big iPod Touch."

They already make an iPod Nano. The stripped it down and focused it by making is smaller and touch. They could add a feature or two more to it and keep the margins rather than dropping the price.

Quote:
Apple's towers are a lot more powerful now, too. They didn't just take their $1500 Power Mac G4 and bump the price up $1,000, they replaced it with a higher-end, workstation-class machine. And yes, the existence of iMacs in that mid-range price point does matter, because what we're really talking about is Apple's exiting of the mid-range tower market. Apple doesn't feel that a mid-range tower is worth the investment; their position is that most non-professional users don't need/want the benefits of the tower and they'd rather sell the workstation-class Mac Pro to those professionals who do. (For now; Apple might exit this market eventually too.)
Well the point is exiting markets doesn't exactly generate enthusiam and excitement for me. Sure the low hanging fruit is iPhones but people still want these computers.

Apple also has a history of getting too isolated. We are seeing that in a few threads in here as well. USB3 vs Thunderport, no Blueray, etc. I noted no iSync in SL as another example. Apple made iTunes and Quicktime cross compatible but not iWork. I guess those Windows folks don't need to buy those apps for their iPhones and iPads.

Quote:
By the way, there's a Mac mini for $599, which is (adjusted for inflation) roughly tied with the 2005 Mac mini as the cheapest Mac ever. So.
That's great but it is competing against $300 laptops and $200 media PC's. I'm just going off what I see. About 18 months ago I gave both my sons new iPods and I used to see iPod Touches everywhere. My kids would pull their iPods out and the other kids would do the same and all would be happy in kidland. Increasing the kids are pulling out Dad's old Android or lately I've seen a couple Kindle Fire's. The dynamics are changing a bit. That doesn't mean Apple dies. It doesn't mean Apple gets trampled. It means Apple becomes stodgy and milks what they do for regular cashflow. Again that isn't exciting.

Quote:
Example of an Apple product that costs three times as much as comparable competition? Right now HP, et al. are struggling to compete with Apple's pricing on "ultrabooks."
That is Apple's best case example. Apple is crushed on affordable prosumer towers obviously. People compare all-in-one's but most tower and monitor configs put the hurt on there. Kindle Fire and others are offering more than Apple is in the iPod Touch.

My personal example was this Christmas we bought the boys these laptops. I wanted very much to get them Apple products but I'm not going to give a 10 and 12 year old boy a thousand dollar laptop and that was what Apple offers. Is it as awesome as the Apple solution? Of course not but the Apple solution is indeed 300% more in cost.

Quote:
I guess I'm confused as to what your point is. Apple is the new Microsoft because...they won't make some sport-tracking watch? Or a midrange tower? Is Motorola more innovative than Apple now, because they do make a sport-tracking watch? That seems to be what you're suggesting, but you're not saying it, probably because it's ridiculous.
Apple innovation is often about taking what is there already and putting it together better than anyone else. Motorola tried to make an iPod Nano with the right specs and price. They don't have iTunes. They don't have Nike+ integration. They don't have the one missing piece Apple can add in terms of combining all the pieces just right. Apple does seem like Microsoft in that they are looking more inward and appearing to endorse only their own solutions instead of growing the pool of money for everyone while merely taking the biggest cut. Apps with no links to their own content or their own stores is an example of this.

Quote:
Innovation isn't a zero-sum game. Some other company making a niche product that's relevant to your interests doesn't use up some of the finite Innovation Pie, or take some from Apple, or anything. Apple doesn't make sport-tracking watches not because they're not innovative enough to be able to, but because they're not interested in that market. It's the same reason they don't make thermostats or coffeemakers or microwaves. If Samsung makes an innovative microwave, and Apple doesn't, does that mean Samsung is more innovative than Apple?
Innovative for Apple has often meant adding what everyone suddenly realized they wanted. Does everyone really need a iPod Nano that does all that? See how quick the network effects would organize around and amplify the effect of Apple saying yes there. We see this with iPhones were people make all sorts of ridiculous add-ons rather than just telling someone to go get a phone with a keyboard or a better camera, etc. They will do it for Apple though because there are million of the same devices out there.

Quote:
Apple is not the only company in the universe, so them not making Product X is not always a strike against them.
Sitting on their butts and introducing "white" is a strike against them.

Quote:
But if you think Motorola is going to be more interesting to follow than Apple in the years ahead, by all means, go ahead and follow them. You could start a blog with a nonsensical name like Challenging Parasol. You could own the Motorola beat. You could even register MotorolaNova. But me? I'm staying here, because I think here is where the fun is going to be, sport-tracking watches or not.
Again just ask yourself how many people want to go buy an independent GPS for their car instead of just using their phone now. That money can buy more expensive phones and a result of not buying a separate GPS. How many people are buying $40 iPod shuffles and $300 Garmin watches who could instead be giving that money to Apple for merely innovating in an existing product line.

BTW, nice pool and BBQ. Do you want to know what they'll be worth in three years?
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-02-02, 19:42

Now just reading this thread you should see why this place would be worse off if you posted less Robo.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-02-02, 20:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Well, that much is true. We're never going to get the guy that "gets it" giving a demo of any tech and selling it from the hip. I agree, that era is over, sad as it is to say that. What we will get though are solid tech demonstrations, and solid reasons why this Apple thing is better than anything else out there.

I'll miss Steve's excitement, don't get me wrong, but I still expect an exciting announcement twice a year. That it will be given by more technical people shouldn't be a reason to be less excited.
That's true. I'm willing - and able - to tweak my opinion and thoughts on all this as the months and years roll on (I am wrong once every 24-28 months, after all ). In fact, Apple has been slowly "weaning us off" Steve since about 2009, with more and more of these keynotes and events being manned by others (Schiller, Forstall, etc.). And they always do a nice job. There hasn't been a trainwreck or "WTF?!" scenario yet, after all.

What would some of these other tech outfits give to be able to say that, I wonder?

I'm not worried about Apple at all. There's just something I'm going to miss, going forward. Those were always such fun things to watch, and re-watch. To this day, I can sit and watch the 2007 iPhone introduction and it's like "holy hell...this is just about perfect!"

You truly got the sense of "okay, this is way more than an iPod with a phone half-ass glommed on...", which is what most of the world seemed to be expecting. I know I was!



But different can be good. It's just different. I do think 2012-2013 will be really good years.

But more fun than watching Apple still do what they do will be watching those who despise them throw little unhinged hissy-fits several times a year.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2012-02-02 at 20:41.
  quote
thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-02-02, 20:46

I think it's because SJ was such a strong character, and a lot of us just thought of him when ever Apple was mentioned.

It will take time to get used to Apple without SJ. Given time we'll get used to it.

I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 2 [1] 2  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Xcode passing wrong flags to gcc Banana Programmer's Nook 4 2009-05-23 02:14
Tragic Passing.... Yontsey AppleOutsider 25 2008-08-21 14:55
RAM- Is this the stuff I want? Fahrenheit Purchasing Advice 7 2006-12-16 16:31
Why not other new stuff? Windowsrookie Speculation and Rumors 18 2006-02-25 15:21
PHP : Passing declared variables to REQUIRE'd files. drewprops Genius Bar 9 2005-01-11 00:03


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2020, AppleNova