[psmith2.0]

I'm still on Mojave on this 2013 Retina 13" MacBook Pro. Everything's working great, but I feel so...behind. Catalina, I believe, is as far as I can go. I remember folks grousing about it when it came out, but are those things all kinda taken care of now?

I'd only be two versions of macOS behind then.

My MacBook supports it, or it wouldn't appear in the software update thing.

I'm just wondering what everyone's thoughts on it are. I've held off, but do I still need to?

I'm updating Mom's MacBook Air from Mojave to Big Sur, so part of me is like "I'm already in this mode, why not bump mine ahead as well?"

Any thoughts/opinions (or warnings) are much appreciated. I'm on fast fiber optic so that should make quick work of the 8.25GB download. The Big Sur download on Mom's MacBook Air is 12.44GB and it's just over halfway through, with about 30 minutes remaining. I figure if it took an hour to do ~12GB, I'm looking at about 40 minutes for the Catalina download?

Anything I should know before I go through with it? If it's not a good idea, please tell me!

[PB PM]

I would upgrade to be sure you are getting security updates, anything else, meh.

[kscherer]

You should run the latest OS your computer can run unless there is a 3rd-party software reason not to do so. I run Catalina on my 2013 27" iMac and everything works just fine.

Always the possibility of a few bug-nuggets, but at this point these will be related to 3rd-party software compatibility mores than OS bugs.

[psmith2.0]

Cool. I believe I'll do so tonight and get a little closer to a modern macOS experience.

I run exactly four third-party apps on my Mac: the two Affinity things (Designer and Photos), an older 2017 standalone Sketchup and MacTracker. All of these are 64-bit, and the Affinity and MacTracker ones are super recent/compatible and Sketchup is what it is...I know, once I get a new Mac, I'll have to do something different on that front (web-only version or whatever). But everything else on my Mac is Apple software, so I shouldn't have any third-party concerns, really.

Good to know.

[kscherer]

Most things that will run on Mojave will run fine under Catalina. So you shouldn't have any troubles.

[chucker]

Catalina removes 32-bit support. Maybe you’re still using an app affected by that. Probably not.

It’s also a bit of a low point, quality-wise.

[psmith2.0]

The only two 32-bit things listed in my system information listing were:

- InkServer (v10.9) from Apple
- quicklookd32 (v5.0) from Apple

Every other app listed had "yes" in the 64-bit column.

Slightly different topic, but related to updating Mom's MacBook Air and something regarding some software requirements.

She uses Broderbund Printshop to do cards and things but she's been using some ancient version that came on a CD-ROM from a solid 8-12 years ago.

I found a newer "Printshop for Mac" directly from Broderbund's website (she'd used MacKiev in the past, but they don't have anything new it looks like.

Anyway, my question: the system requirements for this version I'm wanting to get her:
- OS X 10.13 to 11.1 (onwards), Monterey
- Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GHz or better (2.4GHz recommended) processor
- 2GB RAM (4GB or more recommended)
- 64MB video RAM (256MB recommended)
- 1152x864 (or higher) monitor resolution

She easily meets all the above but the second, processor-related one (macOS Big Sur, 8GB RAM, 1136MB graphics, 1440x900 resolution)), but her MacBook Air's processor is a 1.4GHz Core i5. I know the clock speed number is smaller, but when the above says "Core 2 Duo 2GHz or better...", is a 1.4GHz Core i5 "better"? In other words, will this install/run? I realize the Core i5 is newer/better than the older Core 2 Duo stuff, but does that clock speed matter in this scenario?



If I purchase/download this, do you think it'll launch run, with the lower clock speed 1.4GHz (even though it's a Core i5)?

Not sure what to do here. Not looking to blow $50 (and go through hell getting it back) if it's a total no-go. My gut tells me that the 1.4GHz Core i5 more than overrides any speed of Core 2 Duo, and that it will launch/run the software just fine.

[chucker]

Should run. That CPU is quite slow, but still about twice as fast as the Core 2 Duo:

https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/m...nch-early-2014

https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/m...pro-early-2008

[psmith2.0]

Thanks!

I’ve googled others asking a similar thing (a more recent chip family with a lower clock speed)( and the replies have been similar.

[psmith2.0]

Downloaded, installed. Seems to launch/run just fine. She'll be replacing this early 2014 Air this year, once the new one is released (and, best of all, doubling both her RAM and storage). So this just needs to scoot along for the next 4-8(?) months. But I had to put on Big Sur so she could upgrade to a newer Quicken (she'd been using Quicken 2007 since...well, 2007). As is often the case, you go down that rabbit hole with updates (especially replacing such ancient versions of stuff) and, before you know it, you've lost half a day/evening. But this should be it for a while.

And Catalina is now on my MacBook Pro. The biggest change I see is that iTunes, as we've known it for 700 years, is no more. It's now three separate apps. And I do my phone syncing/updating via the Finder now. Fine with me...makes more sense, vs. shoehorning everything into an alleged "music" app. New Music.app is now just...music. I can dig it. I'll probably never touch the other two (I do podcasts solely on my phone, and I don't really watch movies/TV on my Mac).

Pretty island desktop image. Sketchup and the two Affinity apps open/run just fine, including latest projects (personal and otherwise), so...whew!

This is as far as this MacBook can go, so I'm on Catalina until I wind up with a new Mac. I like Big Sur on Mom's MacBook Air. They really did an overhaul, visually. Catalina still looks mostly like Mojave, but Big Sur - it's sitting beside me as I type - looks really different, but I like it!

Thanks for all the help...

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I like Big Sur on Mom's MacBook Air. They really did an overhaul, visually. Catalina still looks mostly like Mojave, but Big Sur - it's sitting beside me as I type - looks really different, but I like it! Thanks for all the help...

Interesting. I think for the most part, I prefer the Yosemite through Catalina era, visually.

[psmith2.0]

I didn't realize it was so different. It's brighter/more vibrant, the colors, vs. Mojave/Catalina. But it seems "friendlier" somehow, I don't know. I do think I prefer having all the Dock icons in the rounded corner box, like iPhone. Probably because that's what I've gotten used to after 15 years.

[chucker]

(I do like some of Big Sur’s features, like Control Center. I can also get with the two-line title bar in apps like Preview. Interesting take. I just find all that white everywhere soooooooo bland.)

[psmith2.0]

A thousand little paper cuts, Catalina.

You were right, chucker...not their best work.

Several things - Photos importing, Mail, stuff syncing via iCloud, some odd UI/screen-based gremlins, spotty notifications, FaceTime being a weirdo, etc. - simply aren't as reliable and "no brainer"/It Just Works™ as they were in Mojave. No huge crisis or major "OMG!" (yet), but just little annoyances and "why does this work worse now?" things, I've noticed after one solid week on Catalina.

But I do like that pretty island desktop pic, so there's that.







Big Sur is working fine on Mom's MacBook Air, so at least one of us had a smooth OS upgrade.

[chucker]

My impression is that, even though Big Sur had the big visual change, it didn't have the big changes under the hood; those happened in Catalina. Thus, Catalina has poorer quality than Big Sur, which — though it doesn't look like it — is kind of a refined Catalina.

[psmith2.0]

Makes sense. Catalina was the big overhaul but looked like Mojave. Then Big Sur, in theory, came along with a new look (but also tweaked/fixed the shakier aspects of Catalina). I can dig it.

Well, I'm stuck with it so I just have to make it work. Nothing too horrific but I'm definitely fiddling with stuff or attempting things a couple of times to get them to work right. That was never the case in Mojave. I'll be on Monterey (and beyond) at some point this year, so...Catalina is just a temporary stop along the way.

[kscherer]

You might consider dumping some Launch Agents/Daemons, old drivers, and login items. Also, do a malware scan, and remove any applications that are no longer compatible with your system (they'll have a prohibitory symbol on them). You may be dragging along some old junk that gets migrated forward and may be causing some headaches.

Also, log out of your AppleID and log back in.

[psmith2.0]

Seems I can no longer import iPhone photos to Photos as I've done, effortlessly/flawlessly, for 700 years.



It's a Photos in Catalina issue, I'm sure, because it was doing just fine with Mojave.

Now, when I connect my iPhone to my MacBook, everything works fine...the phone shows up in its new place in the Finder, backs up to the Mac, is seen/recognized, etc. It actually launches Photos, as always, but I'm asked to please unlock phone.

a) that never happened before Catalina
b) even when I do unlock the phone, the message persists and I'm unable to see/access my iPhone's camera roll (so I'm unable to import any pics)

Again, this was never an issue prior to last week. I've connected my iPhone to my Mac hundreds (thousands?) of times over the years. When I did, it automatically launched both iTunes and Photos (or iPhoto, back in the day). It would auto-backup via iTunes (and it's doing that now in Finder, no issues there) and it would show up in the sidebar of Photos and import anything I wanted. Without fail, gazillions of times.

Now, Photos will see/recognize the phone in its sidebar, but it won't display its contents (and keeps telling me to unlock phone).

I've rebooted, I've logged out/in to Apple ID. I don't have any malware software (never needed one, honestly) and I wouldn't know what Launch Agents/Demons, old drivers and login items I might have. I don't have any login items. I have no third-party drivers that I know of (no printers, scanners, cameras, etc.). All I have is a MacBook Pro and an iPhone. I suppose the 20+ year old JBL Creature Speakers I have connected might have a driver, but I've honestly never done anything to/with these speakers other than plug them in and they put out loud, bassy sound.

Power cable, speaker cable and USB/Lightning cable is all that's connected to this MacBook. And I only have four third-party apps: Affinity Designer, Affinity Photos, Sketch-up and Mactracker. It's probably the most straightforward, uncomplicated setup of anyone here.

[kscherer]

I have Catalina on my iMac at home. No issues importing photos from the camera roll. Also, my system always asks to unlock the phone, which is a security step that has been around for some time. Can't remember when it was issued, and may be a setting in the phone that gets automatically turned on. I don't know.

When you open Photos, you should be able to select the phone, let it think for a bit, and then import directly into Photos. Like I said, I have no trouble with this. Although it could be the age of your phone? But, I don't think that's it.

Also, if you can't get things sorted out, use Image Capture (in your Applications folder), from which you can import directly to a folder or to the Photos app.

[psmith2.0]

Yep, already doing that.

Things just broke. My old phone worked just fine prior to Catalina. Could be some weirdo combination of old phone + iOS 15.4 (installed recently as well) + Catalina.

I think I did both iOS 15.4 and Catalina within 24 hours of each other, I just can't remember which I did first.

[kscherer]

Re: Launch items

With a finder window open, click on the "Go" menu and hold down the "Option" key. "Library" will show up in the list. Open that. Sort alphabetically and scroll down to Launch Agents and Launch Daemons. Those things can be problematic if they're old. Anything more than 2 years old that you don't recognize, delete it.

Do the same process in the System Library folder. You'll find that in the Main directory (same "Go" menu, under "Computer"). Be a bit more careful in this one. If you have things like MS Office, or other applications that you use regularly, don't kill stuff off. Old things you don't recognize can usually be deleted. These will require authentication.

Do this In List view.

These things are not likely the problem you're having with Photos, but may be causing other issues, as incompatible drivers and Launch Items can/do hang up the system. ANYTHING you don't recognize can be nuked in the User Library folder without consequences, as the application will shove it back in there if needed. The System level stuff is more trouble, since these are installed when the application is installed, and usually won't return without reinstallation.

You might find old Adobe crap, AppleInstaller crap, printer crap, crap-crap, and other crap. I'm guessing you've been migrating forward and that brings forward old crap. Get rid of it!

If you're uncertain, post a screen shot of those items and I'll tell you what can go. Make sure the screen shot includes the date.

Check your Downloads folder. I know you're a smart guy, but you may still have gotten tricked. If there are any Disk Images in there that even hint at Adobe Flash installers, you got duped and need a Malware scan even if you don't think you do.

[psmith2.0]

Okay, thanks.

Nothing in downloads. I've not used Adobe Flash for 5-6 years and I only download install stuff from Apple or their App Store (the Affinity stuff, Mactracker). It's not that I'm smart, it's just that I don't believe/trust anyone and have never just downloaded/installed stuff willy-nilly ("Is Your Mac Slow? Download This Gamechanging App to Speed Things Up!!!", etc.), unlike so many others (Dad, etc.) seem to do, despite me telling them 5,000 times not to.

I'll go do that stuff you outline.

To be clear, the only real ongoing issue I'm having at this point is just the iPhone/Photos thing. It sees the phone, it shows up in the sidebar, but it just always thinks it's locked. In the past - prior to last week's upgrade to Catalina - my iPhone would appear in the Photos sidebar and when I clicked on it, I'd see my roll and pending/unimported pics, and go from there. I just can't get to that stage right now. Photos recognizes the phone enough to display it in the sidebar, but not enough to think its unlocked and import any pics.

Gonna do those other things now...I'm sure I've got stuff I don't need. But I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole too hard/far because that's not where I'm having trouble. If I can just get my phone and Photos to play nice together again, I'm happy/all set.

Doesn't take much.

I did the Go > Library thing above.

There is nothing called "Launch Daemons". There is a folder called "Launch Agents", and it's totally empty. Not a thing in it.

A boatload of Launch Agent and Launch Daemon stuff when I view the system library. What a bunch of gibberish...but I see nothing Adobe or Microsoft-related in there either. And the other stuff is who-knows-what. No printer (Canon, HP, etc.) related stuff either. Haven't had a printer connected to this MacBook Pro (and didn't have one connected to my old iMac for six-plus years).

Thanks, I'll prowl around. I run such a clean, lean ship (never more than 4-5 third-party apps) that anything acting weird is likely going to be Apple-based stuff.

PS - I've never really prowled around these Library folders. What a bunch of stuff! How does anyone know what any of that is?! That's all the stuff I've never had to know/think about in decades (and I'm grateful). I honestly never really peer into anything other than my user folder (Documents, etc.).

[kscherer]

Oh, and restart when you're done.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 To be clear, the only real ongoing issue I'm having at this point is just the iPhone/Photos thing. It sees the phone, it shows up in the sidebar, but it just always thinks it's locked. In the past - prior to last week's upgrade to Catalina - my iPhone would appear in the Photos sidebar and when I clicked on it, I'd see my roll and pending/unimported pics, and go from there. I just can't get to that stage right now. Photos recognizes the phone enough to display it in the sidebar, but not enough to think its unlocked and import any pics.

Try this: close Photos. In Finder, see if the phone shows up in the sidebar. There, explicitly perform a sync. If a sync is already running, let it finish.

Afterwards, open Photos again.

[psmith2.0]

Okay.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 PS - I've never really prowled around these Library folders. What a bunch of stuff! How does anyone know what any of that is?! That's all the stuff I've never had to know/think about in decades (and I'm grateful). I honestly never really peer into anything other than my user folder (Documents, etc.).

Yeah. Library is the shove-under-rug folder of macOS. A bit like what System Folder used to be in Mac OS Classic.

There's some logic to the madness, but frankly not that much.

[kscherer]

If you're at all concerned about anything in those two folders, post a screen shot. I bet it all needs to go away, although there may be some fluff related to apps your are currently using.

If you want to be brave, copy the folder to your desktop (Option-drag), and then just nuke the whole thing and restart. If anything goes south, you can put all that stuff back in one at a time, restarting until it works normal again. My guess is it's all crap!

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 PS - I've never really prowled around these Library folders. What a bunch of stuff! How does anyone know what any of that is?! That's all the stuff I've never had to know/think about in decades (and I'm grateful). I honestly never really peer into anything other than my user folder (Documents, etc.).

That's why the user folder is hidden from view. "Neat freaks" go in there and delete stuff they don't like the looks of and ruin their stuff.

[psmith2.0]

I think I'll quit while I'm ahead. Isn't worth all that hassle for something that may not even fix the one thing I'm irritated about (Photos). Or I might mess with it all this weekend if I'm feeling like it.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I think I'll quit while I'm ahead. Isn't worth all that hassle for something that may not even fix the one thing I'm irritated about (Photos). Or I might mess with it all this weekend if I'm feeling like it.

Did you try my stuff?

[psmith2.0]

Yep, three times.

Phone has no problem appearing in the Finder (the new place to sync/backup, starting with Catalina). Ben doing that just fine for over a week now. I ran a sync, it's a 5-step thing. It even said "reading Photos library" (step 4 of 5).

It finishes, I go to Photos. As usual, the phone shows in the Photos sidebar, no problem. But when I click on it, it just says to "Please unlock Paul's iPhone SE". In the past, if I ever saw that, I'd do so and the contents of my iPhones photo roll(?) would appear, at which point I'd select things to import, etc.

Now it just stays on that "please unlock..." message and it never loads the contents of my phone, despite the phone being present in the Photos sidebar, 2-3" away.

Just one of those annoying, no-rhyme-or-reason issues that I hate dealing with because there's just no obvious reason/solution.

Via my Googling and Apple Support searching, I'm not the first one this has happened to. And Catalina seems to factor in heavily to all the other similar cases, interestingly enough. And I've tried (short of dicking around with Terminal) all the things suggested in those forums and random articles I've found. I figure either an iOS 15.4.1 or Catalina security/bug update at some point may address it.

PS - Image Capture is no work-around...it's behaving the same as Photos. It'll clearly show "Paul's iPhone SE" in the sidebar, but where it should show pics on the phone, and what's ready to be imported, it's all just blank.

At this point, it could be any of 3-4 things...but I think it's Catalina-based because even after the 15.4 update on my iPhone, everything is working there just fine. There's something causing the two photo/image-based applications on my Mac to only "halfway" see my iPhone...enough to place it in the sidebar (to show that it exists) but not enough to show the contents or allow me to actually import anything.

Good thing is, I'm not much of a picture taker on the daily, so it's not wrecking my life or anything. Just mildly annoying in a "you worked fine eight days ago, bastard" kinda way.