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AirPods (2019)


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AirPods (2019)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-03-20, 08:14

So Apple just quietly released the very long awaited wirelessly charging AirPods.

On the really bright side, we don't have to buy a whole new set of AirPods to get wireless charging, just buy the new case. I'm not going to since I don't have anything that is Qi. I should note, those are the Veteran & Military pricing on the screenshot.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Yontsey
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2019-03-20, 08:45

I ordered my pair this morning. Been waiting for what seems forever for this update. I am seeing a totally different price for all 3 though. I saw $199/$159/$79.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-03-20, 08:58

I'm special.
Quote:
I should note, those are the Veteran & Military pricing on the screenshot.
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-03-20, 14:14

Instant buy for me with the wireless charging.

Only product I 100% use every day.
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chucker
 
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2019-03-20, 14:39

So, iPod touch tomorrow, new MacBook Friday?

This (three days in a row of Apple product announcements) never would have happened when Steve was alive!
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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2019-03-21, 15:05

I was really hoping for AirPower, but I guess that’s pushed back again.
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Yontsey
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2019-03-22, 08:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
I was really hoping for AirPower, but I guess that’s pushed back again.
AppleInsider is saying launching "possibly" in late March. Perhaps unveiled finally Monday? They are pricy but I could easily be in the market for 2 right off the bat to charge iPhone, Watch, and AirPods at the same time.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
  quote
kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-03-22, 11:53

It’s weird because the image that was on the AirPods page for months with AirPower showed three devices and now the new image for AirPower is only showing two devices. That would make it a lot less useful to me.
  quote
Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2019-03-22, 18:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yontsey View Post
AppleInsider is saying launching "possibly" in late March. Perhaps unveiled finally Monday? They are pricy but I could easily be in the market for 2 right off the bat to charge iPhone, Watch, and AirPods at the same time.
Doesn’t really seem like something cool enough to hold for a special event (on a streaming service). Also seems to make no business sense to hold it a week when sales would surely have been a lot higher if it had been released with the new air pods and able to be ordered together.

I’m guessing we don’t see it until WWDC or September.
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Yontsey
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2019-03-30, 16:15

I got my AirPods on Wednesday and absolutely love them buuuuuut........they kinda fit loose in my ears, which is what I was afraid of. I feel like I have weird ears/ear canals. The right fit better then the left but even just walking through the grocery store, I felt like i was adjusting them every couple minutes. I contemplated sending them back but I did some research. Long story short, I found a thread on MacRumors from a couple years ago with a guy using a 3M Nexcare Waterproof Grip Tape.

I got mine in the mail today via Amazon and tried a couple different configurations for each ear and I'll be honest, they fit sooooo much better. They have no issue fitting in the case either.

I just wanted to throw this in here incase anyone has had a similar issue. I almost gave up on mine immediately but these will make them a daily fixture for me now.

Edit: This is the OPs picture from MacRumor. Mine look similar.


Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-08-13, 15:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I love how Apple fanboys call this innovation, as if Apple did something great. It was a cash grab made in collusion with headphone manufacturers who wanted to find a way to increase margins, it sure wasn’t done to improve anything for consumers.
Care to provide some actually evidence for your conspiracy theory? We sell less headphones now, not more. Broken cables sold way more headphones than jack-less iPhones could ever compete with. Also, we have a service department, and water ingress through the headphone jack is one of the most common destroyers of phones. These aren't "fanboy" issues; they are real world use cases. Funny, I don't hear anybody whining that Samsung is beginning to phase out headphone jacks. Wonder why that is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Did Apple make some half decent wireless headphones? Yes.
Half decent headphones? Airpods are loved, adored, and dreamed over by happy customers all over the world. They're much better than half-decent. They sound good, and they're incredibly easy to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
They could have done so without removing the plug and forcing users to buy toss away items that will be in a landfill in two years because the batteries are dead.
One day, everything will be wireless. I prefer my phone in my pocket without a stupid wire running up to my ear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
toss away items
You mean, kinda like the phone? or the computer? or the printer? or the Walkman? or any other consumer electronics device made since the beginning of time?

Who let the creeper in?

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-08-13 at 16:47.
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chucker
 
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2019-08-13, 16:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I love how Apple fanboys call this innovation, as if Apple did something great. It was a cash grab made in collusion with headphone manufacturers who wanted to find a way to increase margins,
I… don't buy that at all.

First, because this idea of "we're gonna remove a port and then make people buy headphones they wouldn't otherwise have bought" doesn't make sense in several ways. The iPhone shipped with EarPods before and continues to ship with EarPods now — just with Lightning instead of line-out. If you wanted fancier headphones than that, you would have bought them regardless of what the port is. (And for AirPods in particular, I just don't see that. Nobody says "well I would have stuck to headphones I already have, but now that they don't work, I'm going to get $159 ones I don't actually want". They'll either, again, stick with the bundled EarPods or just get cheap headphones — not ones from Apple.)

And second, we already know what motivated this. It was a drive to make the device thinner and simpler. Was it in part misguided? Maybe, but that's a discussion for the Jony Ive leaving thread. And maybe it really wasn't that off, since other vendors are following suit.

(Or they're in on the conspiracy, too. Dun dun dun DUNNNNNN)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
it sure wasn’t done to improve anything for consumers.
Well, no. Not every engineering change directly benefits the user. And yet, at some point, that jack was gonna go, just like any other plug has. We don't still have SCSI on the iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Did Apple make some half decent wireless headphones? Yes. They could have done so without removing the plug and forcing users to buy toss away items that will be in a landfill in two years because the batteries are dead.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. You're saying they're "half decent"? Well, AirPods would have been a far worse product if they had been designed to be thick, heavy and clunky enough to support removable batteries (and still fit in the average ear). Part of what makes them "half decent" is precisely the same engineering trade-off that also makes them problematic on environment and repairability concerns.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-13, 20:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
It was a cash grab made in collusion with headphone manufacturers who wanted to find a way to increase margins, it sure wasn’t done to improve anything for consumers.
Sure…

Removing a port might not be “innovation” in itself, but it can make other innovations possible. I don’t think the iPhone X and especially the iPhone XR and iPad Pro’s all-screen designs would have been possible with the headphone jack (without being significantly thicker). The iPhone XR actually puts the Lightning port off-center because fitting it under the screen was such a challenge; I really don’t think they could have fit the significantly thicker headphone cavity. And on the iPad Pro, the bezel width seems to be defined by the depth of the USB-C port, and the headphone jack has significantly more depth than that.

Consumers hated it at first because consumers always hate losing something, and because they don’t understand that trade-offs are sometimes necessary to make the devices they, in actuality, want. I was working retail during the 30-pin to Lightning transition, and at that time everybody hated that too – people were convinced it was just a ploy to sell adapters, and not part of making a better product. But can you imagine still using the 30-pin connector now? On BeatsX earbuds? On the AirPods case? On the Apple Pencil?

I honestly don’t think Apple makes much money on the $9 Lightning-to-headphone jack adapter at all. If they wanted the adapter to be a revenue stream, they’d charge more for it, but they charge basically the bare minimum. No one else, with their USB-C to headphone adapters, can match Apple’s pricing. And they included it in the box, alongside new Lightning earbuds, for two years.

Apple will always, always, skate to wear the puck is going. They’re always going to remove things they think are inessential – I’m sure eventually that will include the Lightning port. Apple’s position is that everything is moving to wireless, and they’re not wrong.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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PB PM
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2019-08-13, 23:21

So because some people cannot look after their stuff and break them all the time, wired headphones are obsolete. Please. I have wired headphones that are over 10 years old and work fine. Doubt we'll be saying that about wireless ones any time soon. The only pair of wired headphones I have broken were the crappy Apple ones that wont stay in my ears. Given how Apple shapes headphones that won't stay in my ears, there is no way I'd by Airpods. I'm not opposed to wireless headphones, I have some, but only because I have to. The adapter is a pain and bulky, and frankly didn't need to exist at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Half decent headphones? Airpods are loved, adored, and dreamed over by happy customers all over the world. They're much better than half-decent. They sound good, and they're incredibly easy to use.

You mean, kinda like the phone? or the computer? or the printer? or the Walkman? or any other consumer electronics device made since the beginning of time?
Hardly comparable. I've yet to use Bluetooth headphones that could match wired headphones for audio quality, dollar for dollar. Sorry, it's just the facts. I don't care how many Apple fanboys walk into your third party Apple resale location and tell you how much they love them, that's not a good sample of the general population, considering that less than 10% of mobile phone users globally are buying Apple phones and computer that they fully work with. Until we come up with something better than bluetooth for audio, it will still be lacking due to interference and other issues. I don't love the wire, but I do prefer the audio quality. My walkman (Panasonic version) still works just fine thanks, and it's not in a landfill. My computers, also not in a landfill, because all I have to do is plug them in to, oh can you bare it, a wired plug and, wow they WORK!!!!


Robo: Oh we should give Apple a prize and worship them because they bestowed upon some the mighty adapter!

A decent pair of wireless headphones (that doesn't de-sync from video playback), costs twice as much as a wired pair of headphones with similar audio quality, and oddly enough they never de-sync or run out of battery life, go figure. The Apple lightning headphones are just as crappy, and fit even worse than the 3.5" jack version, enough said. Apple didn't solve a problem by removing the jack, other than reducing the chance of water ingress into a phone. Then again the phone still have speaker grills and a USB port, so they didn't really solve that. Guess we'll have to settle for Apple's wireless speakers to fix that in the future!

Samsung does still sell full screen phones, with headphone jacks, namely the Galaxy S10/S10+, how it is it possible? It must be more magic than Apple can manage. As to them starting to phase the audio jack out, of course they want to sell more of their version of the Airpods.

Last edited by PB PM : 2019-08-13 at 23:40.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-14, 02:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I've yet to use Bluetooth headphones that could match wired headphones for audio quality, dollar for dollar. Sorry, it's just the facts. I don't care how many Apple fanboys walk into your third party Apple resale location and tell you how much they love them, that's not a good sample of the general population

[...]

Robo: Oh we should give Apple a prize and worship them because they bestowed upon some the mighty adapter!
Honestly, I thought comments like these were beneath you.

Nobody is saying that Apple should be given a prize, or worshipped. Just that there was a reason why they made the design choices they did, besides being in cahoots with headphone manufacturers as part of some industry-wide conspiracy.

And by all metrics, AirPods are extremely popular. They're probably the most relevant new Apple product in a long while, in fact. I don't have them because I don't like earbuds, but I see them all the time. It's not just "fanboys" or whatever (what is this, 2003?).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-08-14, 05:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
And by all metrics, AirPods are extremely popular. They're probably the most relevant new Apple product in a long while, in fact. I don't have them because I don't like earbuds, but I see them all the time. It's not just "fanboys" or whatever (what is this, 2003?).
Yeah, I'm honestly kind of shocked how often I see them on the commute. They've fast become a status symbol and seem to enjoy similar levels of popularity as Beats headphones a decade-ish ago.

(Part of it I'm sure is also how striking their design is.)
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chucker
 
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2019-08-14, 05:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Samsung does still sell full screen phones, with headphone jacks, namely the Galaxy S10/S10+, how it is it possible? It must be more magic than Apple can manage.
Different products have different engineering trade-offs. It's a miracle.

If you look at the teardown, that's easily answered: because the Galaxy S10 doesn't have a similarly beefy haptics engine.

Now you'll say "well that's a stupid feature anyway; a headphone jack would be far more useful". And that's sad indeed, because you're held at gunpoint and forced to buy an iPhone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
As to them starting to phase the audio jack out, of course they want to sell more of their version of the Airpods.
So, again, just to be clear, you think a significant amount of people bought AirPods primarily because they had no headphone jack, even though their phones came with identically-designed (but wired) earplugs?
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PB PM
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2019-08-14, 09:21

Robo, I was being sarcastic in that statement, I thought that would be clear from how outlandish it was.

chucker, I sure hope the AirPods are better than the crappy wired lightning headphones, otherwise it’s not just a ripoff, it’s outright robbery. Yes there are different features for different phones. Do I see haptic feedback or a 3.5” jack as make or break? Clearly not, I did buy an XS after all.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-08-14, 10:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
it’s outright robbery.
I'm thinking you need to pick up a dictionary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I did buy an XS after all.
So you bought a phone that has features you absolute hate? And you still bought it? Amongst all those other phones that have SoMuchManyMoreBetter? Whose the fanboy in this argument?

As for your comment that our shop is stuffed with fanboy customers …






Dude, you have no idea.

The vast majority of people who walk into our shop are switchers! And there are hundreds of millions of iPhone users out there. You might try Googling "Airpods satisfaction rating" so that you can learn that 98% of Airpods owners are happy with their purchase. If 98% of millions of people does not work for you, then I suggest you have entered into snob territory.

Either that or you're just trolling.

Who let the creeper in?
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PB PM
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2019-08-14, 15:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I'm thinking you need to pick up a dictionary.
I know what robbery is thanks. If the AirPods audio quality is no better than the lightning headphones I would consider the price tag theft. A Bluetooth adaptor doesn’t cost $100, nor the case and a doubt the batteries do either. If the AirPods have the same audio quality the the wired lightning set they are worth $100 at best, and even that would be generous.

Quote:
So you bought a phone that has features you absolute hate? And you still bought it? Amongst all those other phones that have SoMuchManyMoreBetter? Whose the fanboy in this argument?
I didn’t say I hate it, I said I don’t think it is innovative. Seriously, guys take a chill pill, you think I’d bought bought out Apple and told you I was going to scrap the entire lineup, and switch to making screws with an Apple shaped head.

Quote:
As for your comment that our shop is stuffed with fanboy customers …






Dude, you have no idea.

The vast majority of people who walk into our shop are switchers! And there are hundreds of millions of iPhone users out there. You might try Googling "Airpods satisfaction rating" so that you can learn that 98% of Airpods owners are happy with their purchase. If 98% of millions of people does not work for you, then I suggest you have entered into snob territory.

Either that or you're just trolling.
Guess we have to take your word for it, since you know it all.. after all you have a one store sample to base your all encompassing views on.

Do I make some sarcastic comments? Sure, but are they all sarcasm, hardly. Do I like to play devils advocate at time and see what makes people think about this stuff beyond the surface level fluff? Yes. Hardly trolling.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-14, 15:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I know what robbery is thanks. If the AirPods audio quality is no better than the lightning headphones I would consider the price tag theft. A Bluetooth adaptor doesn’t cost $100, nor the case and a doubt the batteries do either. If the AirPods have the same audio quality the the wired lightning set they are worth $100 at best, and even that would be generous.
“Theft”?

Products aren’t priced based on their production cost + a certain permissible markup, they’re priced based on what people are willing to pay for their benefits. That’s just how capitalism works.

Millions and millions of people are voluntarily trading $159+ for a pair of AirPods, so clearly not everybody considers that price tag “theft.” Maybe…you’re in the minority, with objecting to the sound quality of Bluetooth headphones? Maybe to most people, they sound just fine, and things like convenience and ease of use are more important than audiophile-grade sound quality? Maybe all these people aren’t being hoodwinked and robbed, they just have different values from your own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Seriously, guys take a chill pill
My dude, you were the one who said that Apple removed the headphone jack solely to further some industry-wide conspiracy to sell pricier headphones. If you don’t want people to call you out when you say bizarre and unfounded things, don’t say bizarre and unfounded things.

Trying to roll it back later as “sarcasm” (but also not “all sarcasm”) and “playing the devil’s advocate” is just a bad look, too.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
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2019-08-14, 15:48

What Robo said.
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chucker
 
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2019-08-14, 15:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
chucker, I sure hope the AirPods are better than the crappy wired lightning headphones,
They are. They’re wireless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
otherwise it’s not just a ripoff, it’s outright robbery.
OK.

To my knowledge, their audio attributes are identical. If they’re not, I would expect they’re a revision based on evolution, miniaturization and whathaveyou, and that EarPods will eventually gain their improvements. And maybe cost $10 more afterwards.

If you think fully wireless isn’t worth $130 more, that’s fine and you don’t have to buy them. In fact, I haven’t. Nor do I have an X-style iPhone yet.

But… robbery? What?
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chucker
 
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2019-08-14, 15:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
A Bluetooth adaptor doesn’t cost $100, nor the case and a doubt the batteries do either.
One, contrary to iSuppli’s dumb reporting, you’re not buying an bunch of components glued into molded plastic. You’re paying for the design and engineering, not the components.

Two, if you think a “Bluetooth adaptor” and a bunch of batteries is enough to get sound synced to two distinct Bluetooth devices, get distinct battery status, pause audio when one of them is removed from the ear, and so forth, I think we can end this discussion here.

Tomorrow morning, I’ll tell my hardware colleague that his job is irrelevant because all he does is solder some $3 stuff from China and anyone can do that.
  quote
kscherer
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2019-08-14, 15:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
But… robbery? What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I know what robbery is thanks.
There's no fixing this. Once a person gets a conspiracy into their head, it's stuck there like a tick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Tomorrow morning, I’ll tell my hardware colleague that his job is irrelevant because all he does is solder some $3 stuff from China and anyone can do that.
Well, actually



"It is what in the picture be."

Who let the creeper in?

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-08-14 at 16:19.
  quote
PB PM
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2019-08-14, 19:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Trying to roll it back later as “sarcasm” (but also not “all sarcasm”) and “playing the devil’s advocate” is just a bad look, too.
I was talking about a few specific over the top comments, not everything, and I’m not back tracking. Those are things I do in every just about every thread here. Why? Because, I don’t take everything at face value, whether it’s from Apple or people here. Moving on.

I still do not believe removing the 3.5” jack was an innovative move, nor are the AirPods. The audio quality, if the same as the lightning versions as people here say they are, are not worth the price, to me. I have wireless headphones that have better battery life (11 hours, without needing a case for a top up), and sound a lot better for the same price. I’m not afraid to pay good money for a good product, but IMO the AirPods are not a good value for the money. Nor do they offer any meaningful advantage over other wireless headphones. I don’t love or hate AirPods, I just do not see them as, a) innovative or b) a good value for the money, end of story.

And yes, I’m fully aware that there is more to the cost of a product than the sum of its parts, I wasn’t born half past two yesterday. I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about the value you get for your money.

None of you have presented a reasonable point to say that either items are innovative, you’d rather make personal attacks, because that’s just easier. Saying, “millions of people loves them”, doesn’t make it innovative. So what? Billions of people love going to the beach, does that making going to the beach innovative? Bad example, but I think you get the point.

And yes I still believe the push to remove wired headphones from devices, phones or otherwise, is a move to push buyers up market, and that it is not necessarily a good thing for customers and the environment in general. I never claimed to be perfect in this regard, but I sure try to maximize the usefulness of everything I buy and don’t treat stuff like crap. I won’t join the “you can just get another one if it breaks” mindset.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-08-14, 21:15

Innovation: the action or process of innovating [a new method, idea, product, etc.]

1) New method: AirPods relieved the strain encountered by most people who pair a bluetooth device. Using the W1/H1 chip and Apple ID information, AirPods pair simply by holding the device next to a supported Apple product and opening the case. That’s it. This has never been done before in the industry. While Samsung has attempted to copy Apple, their implementation provides nothing more than a button linking back to the Bluetooth settings before implementing the normal Bluetooth pairing process.

2) New Idea: Wireless earbuds completely untethered (even to each other) while implementing a SOC capable of syncing wireless bi-directional audio; utilizing infra-red proximity sensors, motion sensors, and the SOC to provide communication between each bud and between the buds and the case; delivering them in a nifty little battery-charging case; and implementing a new form of Bluetooth connectivity. AirPods are a first in this class.

3) New Product: See above.

These fit the definition of “innovation”, regardless whether or not any given individual agrees.

Also, AirPods are not the same earbuds as EarPods.They use different speakers, different electronics, and have different venting. They have built-in microphones and proximity sensors. They’re the same shape, but are vastly different internally. They are not a wireless version of EarPods.

Who let the creeper in?
  quote
PB PM
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2019-08-14, 21:31

W1/H1 is just Apples use of NFC and similar technologies, other companies had already done that to improve the paring process. No innovation to be seen there.

Other companies had already made completely wireless headphones, with a few pairs coming out a full year (2015) before the AirPod, look up Bragi, and FreeWavz to name a few. No innovation, sorry.

The only new thing I see with AirPods are the linked case charger. Did Apple put a bunch of good things together and make it a main stream product. Yes. Innovation, sorry, but no.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2019-08-14, 22:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
W1/H1 is just Apples use of NFC and similar technologies, other companies had already done that to improve the paring process. No innovation to be seen there.
Uh, W1 and H1 are a lot more than "just NFC." They're essentially tiny ultra-low-power SoCs, because getting the features Apple wanted with the battery life Apple wanted in the form factor Apple wanted wouldn't have been possible with traditional Bluetooth controllers. So, they made a new kind of chip, and stuck one in each AirPod.

I don't want to be a dick, but comments like this make me think that you maybe aren't...super familiar with the AirPods, and how they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Other companies had already made completely wireless headphones, with a few pairs coming out a full year (2015) before the AirPod, look up Bragi, and FreeWavz to name a few. No innovation, sorry.
I don't need to look up Bragi. I remember the Bragi Dash. Did you actually ever use it? It was a clusterfuck.

Virtually every reviewer noted that it had serious issues maintaining a Bluetooth connection, especially between the two earpieces. (The Bose SoundSport Free, released over a year after the AirPods at a higher price, had the same issue.) As The Verge put it, "Even the Dash's most basic features can cause frustration." And the FreeWavz? Those things were massive. Not something your average person would ever enjoy wearing all day.

Other companies don't somehow use up all the "innovation" in a space by delivering a half-baked implementation of an idea that has serious functional flaws or massive compromises, as if improving on that somehow no longer counts as "real" innovation or something. That's nonsense. If a different company makes that idea actually work, that's innovation, arguably more important innovation than just having the half-baked implementation that kinda sorta worked. As any engineer knows, it's the edge cases that cause 90% of the headaches. Making something work is hard.

And if they make that idea work easily, simply, effortlessly — if they make it less complex for the user than the design they're replacing, even though it's actually technically much more sophisticated — that's UX innovation, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
The only new thing I see with AirPods are the linked case charger. Did Apple put a bunch of good things together and make it a main stream product. Yes. Innovation, sorry, but no.
*headdesk* What do you think innovation is if not bringing a bunch of different ideas and technologies together to make a new kind of product? And yes, I said a new kind of product, because the Bragi Dash was not the same thing. You don't have to believe me, you can believe Bragi, who sold their headphone business and pivoted to software after being unable to ship a product that made sense in the post-AirPods world.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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PB PM
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2019-08-14, 22:43

*Facepalm* W1/H1, note how I said,"NCF and similar technologies", not "just NFC". Way to take my comments out of context, once again, to fit your little story to come out on top or whatever it is your are trying to achieve. I'm not here to win the conversation, but to dig deeper. At least you've all finally given the reasons why you think Airpods are innovate. Good, that's all I wanted to hear. We can agree to disagree.

Last edited by PB PM : 2019-08-14 at 22:55.
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