[Windswept]

If I'm watching CNN and a commercial comes on, I'll switch over to MSNBC or even Fox News Channel to avoid the commercial and keep watching news. So I don't watch Fox very often, but I do occasionally.

Today they had a story about a facial recognition app that is being developed. The way it works is that a person can take a photo with their phone of someone on a bus, in a plane, in a restaurant, or anywhere, and then the facial recognition app will scour social media sites for other photos of that same face.

Then the person who took the photo with their phone will be able to find out vast amounts of information about their subject from his facebook and twitter postings, as well as from any other online media where his face appears.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/303309367...=3033093675001

I was wondering how AN members feel about such an app? Do you think it's a bit of technology that tends toward an invasion of privacy, or do you think it's perfectly okay under freedom of speech for the creators to design and market such a thing?

Maybe I'll do a poll.

[thegeriatric]

Wrong in so many ways, and a definite invasion of privacy (at least in my opinion).

Just another reason I'm glad I don't do Facebook, Twitter etc.

Hey I'm definitely becoming a grumpy old man!!

[Windswept]

I had a stalker once, and when I eventually moved into a different house, I started trying to keep my location unavailable by getting a post office box and by taking various other measures to keep the stalker from finding me again.

I wanted to do Facebook, but didn't; and now, thank heaven, I think any facial recognition app probably wouldn't have much to go on, as far as *I'm* concerned.

Anyway, I'm glad I've kept a low social media profile/footprint as these new technologies come out. I really dread identity theft in particular, and do what I can to avoid becoming a victim of 'that' more than anything, I guess.

I think the facial recognition app is pretty scary, especially for women.

[Jamie240]

I'm a pretty cautious person, and the thought of some stranger on a bus reading up on my personal information is rather unsettling.

I wonder if anyone will ever challenge this app in the courts? I mean, it seems like facial recognition is a tool used by the police to enforce the law and find criminals. Maybe this is one more thing that should "not" be in the hands of the general public. The police likely won't abuse such an app, but some of the public very well might.

[thegeriatric]

Thinking about what you've just said Windswept, what about pedophiles ?

[JohnnyTheA]

Originally Posted by Jamie240 I'm a pretty cautious person, and the thought of some stranger on a bus reading up on my personal information is rather unsettling. I wonder if anyone will ever challenge this app in the courts? I mean, it seems like facial recognition is a tool used by the police to enforce the law and find criminals. Maybe this is one more thing that should "not" be in the hands of the general public. The police likely won't abuse such an app, but some of the public very well might.

I don't the idea of this app BUT given the availability of data from FB and TW I don't see how one could prevent this.

The real problem is not the idea of this app. Its the fact that there is so much data out there. I don't see a problem with someone publishing thier own image on the net somewhere and then having this app id you with that image. IF you made that choice to publish your image publically it is fair game. What I don't like is that someone can publish of picture of a private person without their permission. Someone brings thier iPhone to you kids birthday party, takes pictures of everyone and then tags everyone on FB.

This app just amplifies the existing privacy problem. its probably a good app for pubic figures (who legally don't have the privacy rights as others), criminals, politicians, etc..

[Moogs]

Not a fan of anything that aggregates info about people without their knowing it but whatever we put out there, we're to blame in some sense. Sooner or later though something will come along that goes way over the edge and will cause people to mass-delete tons of their info online.

And... now everyone can go and remove all their pictures from social media, thus negating the wondrous "openness" of the platform.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by thegeriatric Thinking about what you've just said Windswept, what about pedophiles ?

Well, exactly. That's even scarier, because kids really have no way to take measures to protect themselves the way adults might have. Oh, it makes me shiver to think of how vulnerable children are.

Not only that, but young teens themselves are so eager to post as many photos of themselves and their friends as possible, and say things that give way too much information to pedophiles scouring the net. I just don't see a solution to this problem. It's hard to tell children that it's their own fault if they posted something they shouldn't have that left them open to predators. It's hard enough even to make some adults as cautious as they should be.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTheA I don't see a problem with someone publishing thier own image on the net somewhere and then having this app id you with that image. IF you made that choice to publish your image publically it is fair game. What I don't like is that someone can publish of picture of a private person without their permission. Someone brings thier iPhone to you kids birthday party, takes pictures of everyone and then tags everyone on FB.

Plus, the adults and children in the photos might never know their images had been posted elsewhere, maybe by a person at the party they didn't even know, and therefore on a site they're not likely ever to come across. The most innocent thing, taking pics at a birthday party, could make people vulnerable through no fault of their own.

Originally Posted by Moogs Not a fan of anything that aggregates info about people without their knowing it but whatever we put out there, we're to blame in some sense. Sooner or later though something will come along that goes way over the edge and will cause people to mass-delete tons of their info online. And... now everyone can go and remove all their pictures from social media, thus negating the wondrous "openness" of the platform.

But if a stranger has posted photos of you or of children in your family on *their* site, it might be hard to get those photos deleted. Could Facebook admins require one of their members to delete photos they had posted of someone who didn't *want* to be pictured on their Facebook site, do you think? I wonder if that would be possible.

[Moogs]

Carol you are correct that if someone takes your photo and posts it somewhere out of your control, you're out of luck. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised once someone steps way over the line (looks like we're there), if a large number of users gets panicky and start deleting info online, cuts back on their posting or even delete certain accounts all together. More likely to be parents than kids (older than younger) but it would be pretty funny / ironic IMO.

I would enjoy watching Facebook and Twitter's stock tank because of a mass behavior change towards the medium and thus a big loss in ad revenues, etc. IMO virtually all social media is a house of cards from a business perspective, but we'll see I guess.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Moogs Carol you are correct that if someone takes your photo and posts it somewhere out of your control, you're out of luck. I would enjoy watching Facebook and Twitter's stock tank because of a mass behavior change towards the medium and thus a big loss in ad revenues, etc. IMO virtually all social media is a house of cards from a business perspective, but we'll see I guess.

I saw an ad about a story last night, I think on CNN, that addressed the idea of whether people could pay a site like Facebook a fee to delete unwanted information posted about *themselves* on someone else's account.

I didn't wait around to watch the report, and now I'm sorry, because I really would have liked to hear what they said about this issue - especially with this thread in mind. I could probably find the story on the CNN website if I don't wait too long to start looking for it.

Social media sites could probably rake in a fortune if they could figure out a way to do this legally. I wonder what criteria they would have to go by to delete legally information about a fee-paying third party from one of their customer's accounts. Or... would such deletions be a complete violation of freedom of speech? Anyone have thoughts on this issue?

If a person could prove 'factual' information about themselves was not true, I suppose that kind of thing could be deleted. But a post that was merely a matter of the accountholder's 'opinion' about someone probably would not be subect to removal.

[curiousuburb]

I thought FaceBook tagging was a step down this slippery slope already.

IIRC, once they've recognized your face in enough tagged pics, they scan bajillions of other pics to add you in other folks feeds... "as a feature". Soon as I heard that was in development, I politely asked all my friends to untag me... even my sister... then I insisted.
I said "my privacy is more important to me"... even way back then.

Excuse me while I forward her this link. [/ToldHerSo]

[Moogs]

Carol: FB could probably modify their terms of service to include the option of "removal of unauthorized content" but they'd run into two problems: 1) the people paying would say they're being extorted because FB is admitting that content is unauthorized usage but they're not removing it unless you pay them; 2) the other people would claim "Facebook invaded my page and removed content without asking... it was a picture taken in a public space blah blah blah".

So I doubt it will ever happen but for sure there are millions of people who would pay nominal fees per incident to have certain pictures or quotes removed from the FB system. Gets trickier out on the web though because Google or whoever else doesn't control 3rd party sites, even if they list them. At best you could pay Google to not return specific bogus URLs in their search results but that would presuppose that they care (and they don't).

Not too long ago I was the victim of a rumor that was spread about me, in retaliation for what they (wrongly) believed was a rumor I had spread a long time ago. It was Full Retard because I never (as in not even twice a year) hang around this person, or any of his friends or neighbors or coffee buddies, so in the first place zero opportunity to spread a rumor to the right people. More to the point I don't spread rumors because if I want to verbally hurt someone I'll do it directly (you guys know me... not much for editing my thoughts when something pisses me off). Yet somehow when told I was bad-mouthing him, this guy just accepted it as true instead of calling me up and saying "hey WTF asshole?!" At which point I could set up a meeting with me, him and the rumor douche, clearing me of any wrong-doing as the liar is always made obvious in those situations (unless you're a sociopath or something).

So anyway some bogus info ended up online and it started impacting friendships and other areas, but Google was 100% useless. Not only did they not help (by refusing to post the bogus info in search results -- which would've been easy for them to block) but they never responded to multiple requests. IMO Google is one of the most arrogant companies in Silicon Valley now. They couldn't give two shits about any of us or any of our reputations, regardless of evidence provided. They just throw up their hands and say "gee we don't control those web sites so there's nothing we can do", when clearly there IS something they can do (block bogus URLs, etc).

[murbot]

Nothing really to add that hasn't been said, but you might find this interesting:

Social Media Experiment

This guy freaks people out using info they put out there in public, by searching for people close to his location. Interesting.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by murbot Nothing really to add that hasn't been said, but you might find this interesting: Social Media Experiment This guy freaks people out using info they put out there in public, by searching for people close to his location. Interesting.

The world's greatest argument against using Location Services in combination with social media (see also: don't post to FB, et al from your damn phone). Glad my wife doesn't use any smart phone or social media. Can you say "every stalker's wet dream"?

No f-ing way I will ever link up social media with my phone. Or if I did it would be a Twitter account that does not use my real name or photo, and I would turn location services off anytime I was traveling, etc.

[billybobsky]

I keep wanting to contribute to this thread, but I honestly do not know how to express my thoughts on this. There is, simply speaking, no turning back. Object recognition is improving at an incredible rate. Facebook's algorithms 'trained' on large data sets are increasingly a thing of the past. Images do not need to be tagged with identities, when a simple google image search provides hooks for appropriate recognition of individuals -- an intelligently designed system would integrate more than just images, it would extend searches to associated individuals, family members, colleagues, friends etc. building out 'identities' based on contextual information available elsewhere. While it is certainly true that you can slow this process, it is inevitable regardless of your devotion to social media or lack thereof.

I choose not to be paranoid of the change, but to adapt to it and recognize that it isn't that strange. It was a long time ago, now, that I walked up to a desk to sign up for a chemistry course my first day of college and the professor already knew my name. He had memorized the faces of the incoming freshman class. This was well before social media was a thing...

[Moogs]

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Windswept]

It's so ironic, because here I was being extra glad that I had virtually a non-existent profile and photo exposure on social media, when I happen to go to a meeting the very night of my post; and as I sat there participating fully in the 'question and answer' session after the guest speaker finished his talk, a fellow member was going around the room taking about 30 photos of the speaker and the audience, from every possible angle.

This event was in a smallish conference room and it was crammed with members, about 60 or so. Since I asked quite a few questions (as I always do), I'm sure my picture was taken several times, from various angles. Turns out, the speaker himself had requested that one of our members use his camera for these photos, and I'm sure they went up on his own website or Facebook page almost immediately.

I don't have his contact information, so it won't be easy to get my photos (if there are any) off his sites. I just can't believe this happened, right after I read about the facial recognition app. Now, I will never want my photo taken again in a public group. People act like they have the right to take your photo if they jolly well feel like it. But I think that will be changing - once more and more people (especially women!) learn about this upcoming app.