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DSLR Owners: New Tilt-Shift Lenses (Zeiss)


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DSLR Owners: New Tilt-Shift Lenses (Zeiss)
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2009-03-24, 15:41

These things look pretty bad-ass (although extremely expensive also). Originally 6x6 lenses, modified to work a full 360 degrees of tilt and shift, on DSLRs. Nice!

http://www.hartblei.de/en/index.htm

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Swox
OK Mr. Sunshine!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
 
2009-03-24, 17:07

Canon's got one coming out too. I've never used one, but apparently this one is pretty cool:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09...tsepreview.asp
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Moogs
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-03-24, 17:36

Sounds like for now, US customers will have to buy direct, and they've only just barely been announced. The 100% polished 1.0 products have not shipped yet AFAICT. But apparently they're working to set up US retailers as the company grows in Europe. Right now you can add UPS insurance, customs fees and other crapola to the charge. Not sure what the Euro conversion rate is but it's probably not as bad as it was a couple years ago.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2009-03-24, 19:12

They do look quite nice, but I'd want to see MTF curves before I fork out €2k, €3.2k, or €4.6k. The 80 mm and 120 mm aren't likely to be all that hot optically on the 24 x 36 mm sensor, as traditional double-Gauss designs never are at wide apertures, and by wide I mean anything below f/11 for a lens that projects a medium-format image.

These are niche products within the niche of tilt-shift lenses. They'll be lucky to sell more than a hundred a year, I reckon, and in light of that the prices aren't outrageous.
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Moogs
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2009-03-24, 20:39

I could see how the 80 is in a no man's land, but the 120 is clearly for correcting macro distortions and creating DOF effects, one would think. So not architectural but not that nichey either? The 40mm is a standard tilt-shift focal length. My sites are definitely on the 40 but we'll see how the reviews of the new Nikon lenses go. I think they only swivel through 90/180 degrees vs. 180/360 but it does beg the question how severe of a tilt / shift do you need to correct for most keystone issues, etc. As for how many I think they'll sell every one they make if they get good reviews at DPR. If a successful lens the company should expand pretty quickly.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2009-03-25, 13:30

Perhaps a 120 mm tilt-shift macro isn't hugely nichey, but the worldwide market still won't be more than hundreds a year, I would bet. This Hartblei lens will have to compete with the Nikkor 85 mm PC-E (max reproduction ratio 1:2) and similar lenses from other systems. There's a barrier to entry there, because Nikon photographers trust Nikkors, whereas Hartblei is a bit of an unknown (though the Zeiss partnership will help there).

I looked at these lenses a bit closer and the optics really are Zeiss designs. The Hartblei site even says the entire optical cell, complete with blackened aluminium barrel, is made in Germany. They're just adding the mechanics, which is admittedly a tricky business and they seem to have done a good job of it.

But as these lenses use existing Zeiss designs we know the optical performance. The 40 mm is based on the Distagon T* f/4 IF CFE lens, which is an excellent performer, maybe one of the best wide-angle lenses around. This lens will work well even on high-res 35 mm-format cameras.

The 80 mm is based on the Planar T* f/2.8, which is actually pretty impressive by f/5.6, though not quite as good as the best 35 mm lenses. However at f/2.8 it's really weak by 35 mm standards, though it looks decent on medium-format.

The 120 mm is a repackaging of the Makro-Planar T* f/4 CFE. This lens is poor at infinity according to the Zeiss docs, but at 1:5 it's not bad. Again there's really quite a bit less high-frequency contrast compared to 35 mm lenses at f/4, though f/8 improves things a bit (but not as much as you might expect).

I guess these lenses will probably appeal to some product photogs and the like, and more than a few will probably be sold to rich amateurs/optics geeks. But I'd bet my hat they won't sell 1000 lenses a year, and probably substantially fewer.

Thanks for bringing them to our attention!
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Moogs
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-03-25, 13:47

Good research on the "lens DNA" Dorian.

Curious why you think these wouldn't appeal to the same crowds who buy Nikkor PC-E lenses (architectural types, Macro, etc)? IOW, while I understand the trust factor will take time to build up... for the same reason people trust Tokina or Sigma, wouldn't they trust Hartblei, particularly given the Zeiss certification?

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2009-03-26, 13:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Curious why you think these wouldn't appeal to the same crowds who buy Nikkor PC-E lenses (architectural types, Macro, etc)? IOW, while I understand the trust factor will take time to build up... for the same reason people trust Tokina or Sigma, wouldn't they trust Hartblei, particularly given the Zeiss certification?
I didn't mean to imply they won't appeal to people who are also considering the PC-E lenses, but I think when the moment comes to actually put money on the table, more people will opt for the Nikkors. It's easier to take a gamble on Tokina or Sigma because their lenses are usually a few hundred dollars. These are also Japanese companies that have built a bit of reputation for delivering good value, whereas Hartblei is a Ukrainian outfit that not very many people have even heard of before.

If they deliver good lenses they'll be able to sustain a business. But these aren't exactly f/2.8 zooms that every second photographer wants. The market will always be relatively small. I don't think Nikon and Canon are selling huge numbers of tilt-shift lenses either. They may be there partly to round out the system and make it more attractive to photographers who don't know what they'll want a few years down the line.

Old Japanese companies like Nikon and Canon also have a lot of pride and sometimes do things to further their long-term reputation rather than short-term profits. I bet Canon's exotic 17 mm tilt-shift cost an absolute fortune to develop! Considering the image circle it must project, it's a really extreme wide-angle design. Pretty impressive actually, though image quality remains to be seen.
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