[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Ryan a) The French protest all the time. It's like their version of golf. b) 70% of the eligible population in the US are vaccinated. I don't think all of the remaining 30% have held off for ideological reasons—people are lazy, or don't think it's worth, or they're afraid of side effects forcing them to take time off. So let's say half the remaining population are anti-vaxxers. Why should we put up with them for the sake of avoiding division? Why is it on those who've been doing the right thing to coddle them?

This is where the schism happens. The first paragraph is totally correct. As I said above, when the vaccines get full authorization from the FDA/Health Canada you'll see a jump in demand. Then when the pill form emerges from trials, you'll see another bump. (Some people take pills like candy, but needles freak them out.)

The second paragraph is where things go loopy. What to do mean by your "put up with them" comment? This is still (technically) the free world. The whole point of North America is that you have to put up with people you don't like or agree with. What happened to forty years of "my body, my choice" rants? Study after study is showing that just as many educated left-wing voters are anti-vax as there are right-wing microchip-in-the-vaccine nutbars.

Look, I'm double-vaccinated and I think the vaccines are working to the extent that they can in a fight against a bad case of the flu. I believe it's much worse than a regular flu because it was messed with inside a Chinese bio-lab and escaped. But I'm not going to harass a younger person who honestly believes their body is better equipped to fight it or someone who thinks they'll pass on a vaccine until the 'experimental' tag is taken off the vial.

If they make that choice and lose, that's on them. I'm pro-life, but I can't make everyone's good choices for them.

Do we really believe this will get better by clueless authoritarian politicians looking into a camera and threatening that "there will be consequences"?

[PB PM]

Not wrong on the last point, if that worked jails wouldn’t be full of criminals.

[drewprops]

I applaud Paul's working-both-ends-against-the-middle approach!

Originally Posted by Frank777 First of all, that's not my name. You're confusing me with a famous Catholic

🤣

C'mon man!! Has nobody seen Stripes???



The father of a friend's fiance needs emergency surgery and they had to scramble to find an opening at a hospital.

Maybe things will change once enough people know someone who has died or been seriously disabled due to being unable to be brought into the hospital due to Covid spikes?

Maybe we'll get Covid-only clinics?


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[psmith2.0]

I was going to chime in earlier on the Stripes reference - I thought that was an embedded pop culture go-to comment/jab that everyone knew. But I could see how someone named (I assume) Frank(?) being irritated that someone was calling him "Francis" with a bit of derision/snark (if they didn't know the movie/recognize the line).

However, I let folks fight their own battles anymore, so I just decided to zip it. Sorry, drew...

Anyway, for anyone in the whippersnapper camp, this is the scene/dialog in question.

The eagle-eyed among you will recognize two Ghostbusters, Uncle Buck and Brad Hamilton all sharing this scene, along with one of the supporting cast from Miami Vice, John Diehl. Oh, and a member of the Wild Bunch, Warren Oates, who delivers the classic line.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Look, I'm double-vaccinated and I think the vaccines are working to the extent that they can in a fight against a bad case of the flu. I believe it's much worse than a regular flu because it was messed with inside a Chinese bio-lab and escaped. But I'm not going to harass a younger person who honestly believes their body is better equipped to fight it or someone who thinks they'll pass on a vaccine until the 'experimental' tag is taken off the vial.

You are so ill informed here it is laughable. Covid-19 is more contagious, more deadly, and presents with far more long lasting ill effects than any bad seasonal flu. Your belief that this escaped a Chinese lab is, frankly, stupid. There are absolutely no sequences in the virus which indicate any level of manipulation. Such manipulations leave scars -- indications that some jiggery pokery was done. I do this regularly with other bits of DNA from other organisms, it is such a common technique, but there is always some sign I've made a change (e.g. selection markers, restriction sites, homologous recombination sites, differing coding biases, etc). There's none of that here. This virus is less lethal and contagious than hypothetical viruses that could have been produced by the Chinese laboratory in your head. If your argument is that the virus arose in the Wuhan labs, it is better to stick with the more realistic statement that this was a natural coronavirus that they had collected in their sampling of wild coronaviruses. Still unlikely, but far more plausible than the Chinese stumbled upon a natural-virus bioweapon that they (and everyone else) have been warning the world about for over 20 years. We've come close to this level of pandemic three times in the last 20 years from this family of viruses, and none of the prior times have had anything to do with Wuhan or genetic manipulation, so you might want to re-evaluate your understanding on how pandemics happen.

Lastly: oral vaccines are rare because vaccines do not often work via immune system responses available in the gastrointestinal pathway or pulmonary system. Most are delivered as attenuated or live viruses/bacteria -- causing low level infections as a part of the immune system training. This will likely not work here, and it certainly will not be approved by the end of the year.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Look, I'm double-vaccinated and I think the vaccines are working to the extent that they can in a fight against a bad case of the flu. I believe it's much worse than a regular flu...

Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky You are so ill informed here it is laughable. Covid-19 is more contagious, more deadly, and presents with far more long lasting ill effects than any bad seasonal flu.

Um, okay.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky Lastly: oral vaccines are rare because vaccines do not often work via immune system responses available in the gastrointestinal pathway or pulmonary system. Most are delivered as attenuated or live viruses/bacteria -- causing low level infections as a part of the immune system training. This will likely not work here, and it certainly will not be approved by the end of the year.

Sure, it will take much longer than that for full approval. But if one shows promise, it might get jumped to emergency use for covid-positive patients quickly.
There certainly seem to be a number of companies convinced that it could be helpful.

[Frank777]

Oh, and a source for the initial 'end of the year' timeline for pill treatments is that conservative media bastion, the New York Times.

[PB PM]

Sounds like typical media getting too excited, too soon. Just like when they were telling everyone it would be over when the vaccines first arrived. Then again if you told me in May 2020 that we’d having working vaccines in less than a year, I would have questioned that as well.

[709]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Maybe some people just like authoritarianism because it requires less thinking.

Originally Posted by 709 Irony.

Originally Posted by Frank777 This should be good. How is my comment on authoritarianism ironic?

Um. That's kind of your whole thing, aligning yourself with an 'ultimate' authoritarian and all. I thought it was obvious.

It was meant as a spicy joke, but take it personally if you need to.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Oh, and a source for the initial 'end of the year' timeline for pill treatments is that conservative media bastion, the New York Times.

But it's not describing what you said at all. There's no mention of a pill vaccine. Do you really not know the difference? [I know Pentecostals are the least educated religious denomination in the west, but we've been having a pandemic for nearly 1.5 years...]

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky But it's not describing what you said at all. There's no mention of a pill vaccine. Do you really not know the difference? [I know Pentecostals are the least educated religious denomination in the west, but we've been having a pandemic for nearly 1.5 years...]

Are you really just out to nitpick and name call anyone who doesn't think like you do?

My post about pill vaccines has links to several companies pursuing them. When I quoted the NYT, I specifically said pill treatments, not vaccines.
Yes, we're in a pandemic. Whether we get pill vaccines or just treatments to help covid-positive individuals, it will help the situation.

And since we're being nitpicky today, check that Pew Research link again.
Under Education, the graphic says "Renewalists are not necessarily less educated that other segments of the population."

And it just deals with the U.S., not the western world, as you claimed.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 My post about pill vaccines has links to several companies pursuing them. When I quoted the NYT, I specifically said pill treatments, not vaccines. Yes, we're in a pandemic. Whether we get pill vaccines or just treatments to help covid-positive individuals, it will help the situation.

No, your post doesn't link to several companies pursuing them nor does it have a citation for where your mythological timing comes from. I can only hope that you are posting this bullshit elsewhere and haven't lost your mind.

And since we're being nitpicky today, check that Pew Research link again. Under Education, the graphic says "Renewalists are not necessarily less educated that other segments of the population." And it just deals with the U.S., not the western world, as you claimed.

And a research study in Canadian Pentacostal communities shows the same (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/235279111.pdf), and Pew isn't writing this without cause; Nigeria was an exception to this established feature of Renewalist chruches -- that they are filled with uneducated folks being swayed by a charismatic church (and yes, I'm being punny here)...

[kscherer]

Well, the Times is behind a paywall—and I'm not paying for their dribble—so I have no idea what any of it says.

But, the article's headline does say "A Pill To Treat COVID …", not "A Pill Vaccine". One would assume the article yammers about medication to treat COVID symptoms, and that seems entirely plausible.

[Frank777]

It's sad that some people can't debate an issue without denigrating other people's religions.

There's no problem debating hesitancy among certain people groups or stuff like that.
But hoping for vaccines-in-pill-form doesn't even have a trackback to faith. Why the need for all the vitriol?

[Dr. Bobsky]

If statement of fact falls under denigration, you must have a special dictionary.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by kscherer Well, the Times is behind a paywall—and I'm not paying for their dribble—so I have no idea what any of it says. ...

Sometimes, if you hit "Reader Mode" as the page is loading the paywall doesn't stop it from loading the contents of the article and you can read it anyway.

[turtle]

So I will tell all of you the having COVID sucks but wasn't the end of the world for my family. We don't know the vector of exposure that did it, but we are fairly certain it was a contractor that was in our home. While we were generally isolated from them, there were many times that we had to be near them to talk about the work being done. The headaches and lack of energy were/are the biggest issues we've had with this round. Our first exposure (thanks to my in-laws back in May) was minimal at worst. More like mild allergy symptoms.

This round, assumably Delta, was not so mild. We only had slight fevers but they never went over 100. The headaches though! I've never had a migraine until now and it sucks. I was describing my pain to Mrs T and she's like, "you have a migraine". The worse part, it lingered for days. Worse at time and better at others.

Then there is the complete lack of energy. I mean, getting out of bed was hard work. I would was up in the morning after a full night's rest and feel like all was well. Within an hour I could barely remain upright and never got my energy back. I kept and eye on my O2 sats and other vitals and all was well. My blood pressure was high, but I assume that is because of the pain.

Oh, scalp sensitivity was another odd symptom I wasn't expecting. Like, moving my scalp is/was uncomfortable.

Other than those between Mrs T and I we hit pretty much every "textbook" symptom/sign for COVID.

Today is the first day that I'm actually feeling better rather than worse and my symptoms started Sunday. Thankfully, we are already isolated so we aren't spreading it.

[Frank777]

Great to hear that everyone is safe and recovering.

[PB PM]

Hoping you and your family fully recover with no long term symptoms.

[turtle]

Thanks. We are all hoping no long term effects. Today I spent most of the day in low gear but with more energy than the last week. I just went for a 30 minute walk and am completely wiped though. That was tough even for me feeing better.

I also had a tele-health visit with my doc and he seemed completely unconcerned about our current status with the virus so that is a positive sign. He asked questions, but nothing raised his eyebrow or anything. We scheduled an in person follow up where he said he'd check for "long covid".

[drewprops]

Get Well T!!!

♥️♥️♥️






...

[drewprops]

Some personal Delta variant anecdotes:

Mom finally agreed to tighten protocols and interactions. She called and left a message for her hairdresser, to cancel a Friday appointment. The lady called back and said "Don't go to the salon, it's closed, WE ALL HAVE COVID".

I'm told that the lady coughed throughout the brief conversation.

Another friend had waited an hour in a long line of cars to get tested, because she felt rotten - have not heard the results yet.

A cousin's fiancé tested positive and she's waiting to get her results back, but they are both sick.

On Friday I received a contact tracing call, as I had been in a space last Sunday with someone who tested positive this week. One of the questions was "Were you within 6 feet of this individual for 15 minutes or more?" I was not within 6 feet of them at all on the day I was in that 30 foot by 70 foot space with them, but I should probably get tested nonetheless, I suppose.

Dragon Con is on Labor Day weekend and they're going full speed ahead, but have implemented precautions. I personally believe that an event that puts thousands of people in a convention space is still too dangerous considering the number of breakout cases I am seeing and hearing about.

To their credit, they are requiring proof of vaccination or a PCR test that's within 3 days of attendance.

AT THIS POINT I would feel far better about the (likely unvaccinated) people who show up with recent PCR tests than the people who are vaccinated, but the truth is that I don't trust ANY OF THOSE EFFERS.

The Cadillac in-person plan would be vaccinated WITH a recent PCR test.



...

[psmith2.0]

Maybe it should be cancelled? If these things are flaring up, and nobody can be trusted to be honest or legit with their vaccine or testing status, that just seems like a needlessly risky dice roll with all those factors present.

I'm just kinda sticking to my usual thing for now...working from home, venturing out to the grocery store 1-2 times a week, exercising the usual, expected precautions. But no bars, concerts, parties or other "unnecessary" gatherings involving strangers, crowds, etc.

I just don't feel comfortable, vaccinated or not. I just don't even want to deal with the possibility of catching something from things I don't have to do. But that's just me and my approach, for now.

Good thing I'm an introvert/homebody by nature, and I've been doing the "social distancing" thing for years already. It's been a cake-walk for me, that aspect of all this. I was already watching HGTV on Saturday nights, so...

On a positive note, I'm catching up on my crosswords (those huge 200 puzzle Sunday NYT anthologies/collections), I can restring a guitar in under four minutes and I've taught Jasper so many cool tricks! Oh, and I've taught myself how to hand-cut a dovetail joint. Been moving away from loud, messy power tools and have gravitated back to little saws, chisels, scrapers, planes, sanding blocks, etc. to make things. Takes longer, but what am I in a hurry for?

[Capella]

Dude, tell us about the tricks you taught Jasper, that sounds awesome.

[psmith2.0]

Mainly fetching (paper, pens, etc.), chasing/hide-and-seek, he seems to be "camera aware", opens closet doors, keeps his toys corralled, responds to guitar playing, etc.

[drewprops]

Last night a radio host named Phil Valentine died of Covid. He was preceded by two others.


Radio host and anti-vaxxer, Dick Farrel, dies of Covid; Urges friends to get vaccinated before death.

Christian Radio Host Dr. Jimmy DeYoung Sr. Who Called Vaccine ‘Government Control’ Dies of COVID-19

Phil Valentine, radio host who regretted vaccine skepticism, dies of Covid-19



...

[PB PM]

Sad part is, some of their followers will still not do anything, might even say that the government killed them to shut them up or some other nonsense. Still I hope those who are receptive will take it as a wake up call.

[Mac+]

turtle - just catching up on this. I hope you and your family are OK and do not suffer long term effects. Thinking of you.

[Frank777]

Great news. The Pfizer vaccine finally has full approval from the FDA, which should help get the vaccination rate to trend upward.

[Yontsey]

Hopefully the stock price too.