[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly This came up in conversation with my co-worker today - if you were going to buy a car primarily for gas mileage, which way would you go? A) Gas/electric hybrid B) Diesel C) Small lightweight car with tiny gas engine

Diesel/electric *serial* hybrid, please. None of this parallel hybrid malarky.

[alcimedes]

Yes, ceramic pads have to get hot before they work well, at least the only ones I've ever heard of do. Maybe they have versions for daily drivers now?

My friend who has some on his car (which he does autocross in) almost drove into the back of my other friends car because the pads weren't up to temp after a few hours of driving on the highway.

[NosferaDrew]

My little coupe:





I've got some simple mods that I'm doing soon: new, wider 17" wheels, chip for the engine, sport exhaust and a ducktail.

In the future I'm going to turn this one into a track car and I'm going to get a 993 C2S or an older 997 GT3.
Here's a widebody 993 similar to what I want:



I've really become addicted to Porsche and I really don't want any other make of car.
So much fun to drive up in the hills.

[psmith2.0]

That first pic caught my eye. Is that a one-lane mountain road and you're in some pull-off/parking lane, or are you actually positioned in the wrong way of the right-hand lane on a blind corner?

[Brad]

Well, it does look like that lane is blocked off ahead with those barrels (or garbage bins?).

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly This came up in conversation with my co-worker today - if you were going to buy a car primarily for gas mileage, which way would you go? A) Gas/electric hybrid B) Diesel C) Small lightweight car with tiny gas engine I chose diesel, because to me it represents the least amount of compromise. You can still have a bigger car or a wagon or something while retaining respectable gas mileage. There's no main battery to replace after 3 years, and you can fill up on diesel at the same pumps everyone else does.

I'd probably choose a small lightweight car, as long as the acceleration was decent enough to take up from lights and get up hills easily and so forth. I prefer something smaller anyway: they're sportier and easy to manoeuvre. My worst nightmare would be a big-arse 4x4 or something. My dream car at the moment would probably be something like a BMW 1 series.

If I needed the extra space for a family or something, I'd probably go with a hybrid. although I'd research it a bit more first.

Diesel doesn't really appeal to me. Although the milage is better, the carbon emissions aren't a huge amount better (I don't think?) and the exhaust is also dirtier. Also, I'm not sure on this one either, but don't they have worse acceleration?

[NosferaDrew]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 That first pic caught my eye. Is that a one-lane mountain road and you're in some pull-off/parking lane, or are you actually positioned in the wrong way of the right-hand lane on a blind corner?

Originally Posted by Brad Well, it does look like that lane is blocked off ahead with those barrels (or garbage bins?).

That's Tuna Canyon Road.
It's a magnificent road above Malibu (there are many up there) and it's one-way straight down.

Here's a little video of the trip down.

[Robo]

My BFF Tay just bought a 2010, which naturally means I have to one-up her with a 2011. Unfortunately, I'm less than employed. But my "if I get The Deal" car is currently a toss-up between a Volvo C30, a Honda CR-Z, and a Fiat 500, though naturally I'd have to actually drive the latter two to be sure.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by joveblue I'd probably choose a small lightweight car, as long as the acceleration was decent enough to take up from lights and get up hills easily and so forth. I prefer something smaller anyway: they're sportier and easy to manoeuvre. My worst nightmare would be a big-arse 4x4 or something. My dream car at the moment would probably be something like a BMW 1 series. If I needed the extra space for a family or something, I'd probably go with a hybrid. although I'd research it a bit more first. Diesel doesn't really appeal to me. Although the milage is better, the carbon emissions aren't a huge amount better (I don't think?) and the exhaust is also dirtier. Also, I'm not sure on this one either, but don't they have worse acceleration?

The current diesels are pretty good on running clean. It's a lot better than it used to be, these days. Diesels don't usually have a lot of horsepower but they usually have massive, disproportional amounts of torque. And torque is what gets you up hills without having to downshift, so I like that aspect of diesels. I would say that most turbo diesels do have much better acceleration than small engined high MPG gas cars while maintaining better MPG at the same time. The Jetta TDi gets 42 MPG with 140 HP and 236 lb-ft of torque. That's better in every way than a car like the XB which has less power and worse gas mileage. It's probably worth noting that the XB is also cheaper, but that's all it really has going for it, IMO.

The BMW 128 costs a lot more, almost $30k for the base model, only gets 28 MPG at best, but does have more HP than the Jetta TDi for example. But this is what I meant by compromise; A car like the Jetta TDi is a good car to drive, it handles well and it accelerates well enough while getting fairly stellar mileage. I would only be looking at a 1 series if MPG weren't a concern at all.

[Noel]

I adore my green 2004 Mazda 3. The pics below are from a Google search.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly The current diesels are pretty good on running clean. It's a lot better than it used to be, these days. Diesels don't usually have a lot of horsepower but they usually have massive, disproportional amounts of torque. And torque is what gets you up hills without having to downshift, so I like that aspect of diesels. I would say that most turbo diesels do have much better acceleration than small engined high MPG gas cars while maintaining better MPG at the same time. The Jetta TDi gets 42 MPG with 140 HP and 236 lb-ft of torque. That's better in every way than a car like the XB which has less power and worse gas mileage. It's probably worth noting that the XB is also cheaper, but that's all it really has going for it, IMO.

While diesels have a lot more torque especially in the low end of the RPM's, diesels do take longer to rev up then gasoline engines. Take the 335i vs 335d. 335i is a gas engine producing 300 HP and 300 lb. ft of torque at 1500 RPM. The 335d produces 265 HP and 435 lb. ft of torque at 1750 RPM from its diesel inline 6. While down 35 HP, it has a 135 lb. ft of torque advantage. Though performance of the 335i is 0-60 in 4.8 seconds while the 335d is 0-60 in 5.9 seconds.

[Maciej]

Yeah, a 135i was my dream car at the moment but it was just unrealistic as a daily driver - especially in the winter if Wisconsin. Ahh well, we can all dream.

[Luca]

These were taken a while ago, when I first bought my car. It's got over 22k miles on it already, after 17 months. Only problems I've had so far were a broken center brake light (which was replaced for free) and I had an irreparable puncture in one of my tires. Since all my tires were low on tread anyway, I decided to replace them all with snow tires. And finally, today, it's begun snowing!

[Quagmire]

Talking about the Fit, how about the new US spec Ford Fiesta? While they ruined the sedan with the 3 bar grill, the hatch still retains it's Euro look mostly. Expected to hit 40 MPG HWY. Plus, it can escape from a Corvette in a mall and be used as a beach assault vehicle if you want to go invading a country like Britain or Japan. Can any sub-compact do that?

[kretara]

I'm something of a car whore.
This is what I have had in 25 years of driving.

At 16 I started out with a 1978 Honda Accord CVCC that looked just like this one:


After my college roommate totaled the Accord I got a black 1980 Audi 4000s similar to this one:


After a little less than a year of Audi ownership the timing belt broke and so did the engine.
My Grandparents let me USE a 1977 Ford Pinto that looked like this:


After a few weeks of driving a pinto (and of total embarrassment) I bought my first new car...a black 1986 Mazda 323. It had one option: A/C and looked like this:


I then bought my second new car: a 1990 Honda CRX DX that looked just like this:

God!! Do I miss this car.

In 1995 I sold the CRX when I moved to Boston and I bought a 1990 Audi 100 in metallic green. It looked like this:


While driving on the interstate, the truck in front of me deposited a cooler on the road and I ran over it causing damage to the engine and transmission.
So, I bought a white 1996 VW Jetta:


After a few years I went back to school and needed to get rid of a car payment so I sold the Jetta and bought a dark blue 1991 Audi 100s (see pic of Audi 100 above). I REALLY love VW's and Audi's.

After getting out of school (again) I got a blue 1996 Honda Accord LX coupe. I frigging hated this car. It was loud, unreliable and just a total let down to drive.


I got a great deal on a dark blue 1999 Ford Crown Victoria LX so I got rid of the hated Accord and bought my first American car.


After moving back to Little Rock I really wanted a truck in a bad way so I sold the CV and bought a 2wd 1991 Dodge Ram Charger with a, um, highly modified engine in it. It required premium gas and on a good day got 9 mpg, but what a blast to drive. This is a pic of my real truck, no google pics for it.


Finally, the combination of increasing gas prices, another kid on the way and looking forward to paying for private school and daycare forced me to sell the truck (I really did not like spending > $100 per week to fill up) and buy this horrible GM POS called a 1996 Buick LeSabre.

This car has really made me despise all things GM. Unreliable, poor fit and finish, poor everything.

Ever since getting married my wife has gotten the nice (and new) cars and I get to drive old and cheap cars. Maybe someday I'll get to have a nice car again.

[Luca]

If the Fiesta had been available in the US last year, I would have bought it. Unfortunately it was not, and I needed a car right away (the car I was using was borrowed and my brother needed it).

But I'm still happy with the Fit. I'm excited to find out how well it handles once I put summer tires on it this spring!

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by Quagmire While diesels have a lot more torque especially in the low end of the RPM's, diesels do take longer to rev up then gasoline engines. Take the 335i vs 335d. 335i is a gas engine producing 300 HP and 300 lb. ft of torque at 1500 RPM. The 335d produces 265 HP and 435 lb. ft of torque at 1750 RPM from its diesel inline 6. While down 35 HP, it has a 135 lb. ft of torque advantage. Though performance of the 335i is 0-60 in 4.8 seconds while the 335d is 0-60 in 5.9 seconds.

Right. Well there's a number of factors in play there; Horsepower gets better 0-60 times, not torque, and diesels always have longer gearing to compensate for the much shorter rev range. The good thing is that the higher torque compensates for the longer gearing in day to day driving, it just doesn't really do anything for 0-60 times. Additionally, the 335d weighs over 300 lbs. more than the 335i.

But diesels really aren't suited for nor are intended to be performance cars. The 335d gets 36 mpg highway, which for a car of that size/class is pretty damn good. And since that would really be the only reason you would get a 335d over a 335i, performance shouldn't be an issue for most people. Like the Jetta TDi, 140 HP isn't a lot but 236 lb-ft. of torque will get the job done no matter where you go. And I think that's a good compromise for getting 42 MPG. And it should probably be said that both the 335i and d are pretty expensive. in the $40-50k range.

When I was in high school I had a friend who had a diesel Rabbit. That thing was so small and light, he could go for weeks without refilling it. He figured once that he was getting over 50 MPG on average. It was not a fast car but it was fun to drive and 50 MPG was pretty ridiculous.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by Quagmire Plus, it can escape from a Corvette in a mall and be used as a beach assault vehicle if you want to go invading a country like Britain or Japan. Can any sub-compact do that?

THAT was AWESOME. And I love how they framed it in the context of a "proper car review" because some old guy was complaining about how they review cars.

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly But diesels really aren't suited for nor are intended to be performance cars.

That's right in general, but Audi is thinking about a diesel version of the R8. Google for "Audi R8 V12 TDI" ... . I think this would qualify as performance car.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by Luca These were taken a while ago, when I first bought my car. It's got over 22k miles on it already, after 17 months.

My gf just bought a 2009 Fit Sport a few months ago. She's really digging it, and my dog fits really well in the hatch space behind the back seat. Her only complaint so far is that while it's plenty zippy around town and at lower speeds, once you're on the freeway the engine doesn't quite have the cojones to do things like cruise uphill without downshifting (at 80mph or so) or pass people efficiently. But, she's been averaging mid 30s MPG which is one of the reasons she wanted it so she's fine with that.

I think it's a nice car in most respects. It handles surprisingly well for a cheap car and the interior is pretty nice. The iPod connector in the glove box is nice too.

[Robo]

Keep in mind that Luca has the previous generation (2007-2008) Fit, which is smaller and lighter, IIRC.

Oh, and the Fiesta will be priced from $13,320 ($13,995 after destination). That's the sedan, though - ew! - the hatchback starts at $15,120 plus destination.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Roboman Keep in mind that Luca has the previous generation (2007-2008) Fit, which is smaller and lighter, IIRC.

I just looked it up. The '09 Sport automatic is 2604 lbs whereas my '08 Base manual weighs 2432 lbs, which is 172 lbs less. The '09 does have 8 more horsepower than the '08, but if it's an auto then there will be some power loss as well.

I'll admit, though, that it is not very fast once you get to the higher speeds. I mean, what do you expect from a car with 109 hp? Still, it handles well and the VTEC gives it reasonable acceleration early on. I think Car and Driver actually got faster 0-60 times with the less-powerful '08 model than they did with the '09.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Luca I think Car and Driver actually got faster 0-60 times with the less-powerful '08 model than they did with the '09.

That's what I was trying to allude to. I know a lot of people who think that the first-gen was better, performance-wise. But I still like them both.

People who reserve a Fiesta apparently get the "SYNC and Sound" package for free -- premium sound and Ford SYNC, though apparently no "real" navigation is available on the Fiesta. With companies like Nissan and Suzuki either including navs standard or charging only $400 for them, that's not super-competitive, but maybe it's something to add for 2012.

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly The BMW 128 costs a lot more, almost $30k for the base model, only gets 28 MPG at best, but does have more HP than the Jetta TDi for example. But this is what I meant by compromise; A car like the Jetta TDi is a good car to drive, it handles well and it accelerates well enough while getting fairly stellar mileage. I would only be looking at a 1 series if MPG weren't a concern at all.

It just occurred to me that the BMW 1 getting good environmental ratings is a diesel model, the 118d, at 4.5L/100km or 52mpg, which isn't bad at all. Whoops! So there you go, small light diesel for me!

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by joveblue It just occurred to me that the BMW 1 getting good environmental ratings is a diesel model, the 118d, at 4.5L/100km or 52mpg, which isn't bad at all. Whoops! So there you go, small light diesel for me!

Ah yeah, I was only looking in the US market. Just about every other nation in the world has more choice in diesel cars than we do in the US. I was happy to find that my Legacy is sold in the UK as a turbo diesel too, only 150 HP but 260 lb-ft of torque. Great MPG though, 44 combined and 51 "extra urban mpg" whatever that means. Top Gear did a segment where they had to drive 750 miles on a single tank of gas while racing each other to try to get there first. James May chose the Legacy turbo diesel, and a number of times he was averaging over 50 MPG. They didn't show if he ran out of gas or not but I think he was within 30 miles or so of finishing, so he at least made it well over 700 miles on a single tank.

I'm not sure why diesel isn't embraced like hybrids are in the US... probably the misconception that they all run dirty or something.

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly I'm not sure why diesel isn't embraced like hybrids are in the US... probably the misconception that they all run dirty or something.

I would totally get a diesel myself, because it's most practical all around. Diesel-electric hybrid, as Kickaha described, is also good. I'm just surprised nobody thunk of it sooner considering that is what the locomotives has been doing for decades. (What? You think they have a big ole' transmission strapped on the engine car? )

Anyway, what I heard (and keep in mind that hearsay is awful piece of evidence...) was that they found it more profitable to sell high-sulfur diesel to US and because of that, it kinds of killed the market for diesel cars.

[Kickaha]

Serial hybrid, let the generator run on gas, diesel, biodiesel, leaves, peanut oil, hydrogen fuel cell, reconstituted stripper sweat, it doesn't matter. Migrate from fuel needs to fuel needs, main technology and system remains the same, only the generator needs to be swapped out.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Parallel hybrid, let the generator run on gas, diesel, biodiesel, leaves, peanut oil, hydrogen fuel cell, reconstituted stripper sweat, it doesn't matter. Migrate from fuel needs to fuel needs, main technology and system remains the same, only the generator needs to be swapped out.

And many people could get by on just the battery for their day-to-day needs, renting a generator for trips.

[Kickaha]

While true, I think most people would feel much more secure knowing that *if* they start to run the battery low, then can pull into any gas station and keep going. I know for me that's a huge factor.

Recharge at home for most daily driving, use fuel as a backup or for long trips.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by kretara ...a black 1996 Mazda 323. It had one option: A/C and looked like this:

Typo. You mean 1986, of course. My wife had that when we first started dating, except in pale blue.

After we were married, she was living in Montreal and I was still in Ottawa much of the time, driving back and forth. After the GLC broke down in 1993 in -30C very early one morning on that Montreal-Ottawa highway (and I had to hike 30 minutes over a snowy field to use a phone at a pig farm), we decided we needed something newer, so we bought a used 1991 Ford Taurus (file photo):



We drove that car into the ground - with a new transmission and some rust repairs we were able to get over 300,000 km out of it. That old Vulcan engine never needed to be touched. We replaced it with a silver 2000 Taurus (file photo), our first new car:



We also put a lot of kms on that, with no real problems. Again, that engine was almost like a sealed unit; never need anything but the occasional oil change. We replaced it with our current car, a 2008 Subaru Legacy Wagon (again, file photo):



None of these cars are all that exciting, but I've never been that much of a car fan. Cars are mostly a get from A to Z proposition for me.