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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-07-19, 10:00



A new security update from Microsoft causes this much of a tizzy?

So this open, vulnerable, virus-laden chucklehead of an operating system is getting it's "largest security update", and it's viewed as some sort of planetary alignment phenomenon.

Meanwhile, I download my OS X security updates and don't even feel a quiver...

Can you imagine the calls those poor people at Symantec are going to be fielding?

"My Internet broke! My worm ate my virus and swallowed all my e-mails! My computer disappeared...no, not the icon, the actual computer. I don't know where it went".

"Call the police, sir. You've probably been victim of theft"

"But I didn't download that."

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HOM
The Elder™
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Rostra
 
2004-07-19, 10:10

Quote:
The changes in the way Windows polices itself -- particularly the newly strengthened firewall -- could cause troubles for applications that are used to working with Windows' old ways. Some say that's particularly true of applications that regularly interact online, such as gaming programs or music services.
Show of hands, how many people think SP2 will break iTunes?

Although I can't wait for this. The more people that have problems with Windows the better.

"Wait, I can either have viruses or my computer won't work?"

CARTHAGO DELENDA EST

¡Viva La Revolucion!
  quote
onlyafterdark
Sucker for shiny objects
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kitchener, ON
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2004-07-19, 10:10

Ya I am so glad I was converted last year. I mean come on, who in their right mind would want to work with those headaches everytime they want to use a computer. Its madness!

And my vote is yes SP2 will break iTunes.
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Escher
Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2004-07-19, 10:54

It's really quite pathetic. I got a Wintel box so that my wife could have the same user interface/experience at home and at work, and wouldn't rag about having to use the old iMac. Even reading her Hotmail in Internet Explorer some crap manages to get on the system that resets the default homepage, changes the menu bar, etc. And I have no idea how to fix this stuff on a Wintel box. Guess I'll have to shell out money for a copy of AdAware or some other spyware cleanup program, not to mention all the craziness involved in installing patches.

I sure am glad I have a choice of OS for my own computer.

Escher

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-07-19, 10:59

AdAware and Spybot are both free.
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johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-07-19, 11:21

I'm on my 4th day of trying to get my roommate's P.O.S. Win98/PC laptop on to my Airport network. 4 frigging days, and I'm not particularly stupid about PCs...

Meanwhile I set up 3 other Macs in under a minute.

Unfuckingbelievable.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2004-07-19, 11:27

Windows really IS a steaming pile you know... it's not just a clich anymore.

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DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2004-07-19, 11:38

I already loved being a Mac guy, and every time I see something like this, I love it even more.

Not having to worry about viruses/worms/spyware = priceless
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2004-07-19, 11:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escher
It's really quite pathetic. I got a Wintel box so that my wife could have the same user interface/experience at home and at work, and wouldn't rag about having to use the old iMac. Even reading her Hotmail in Internet Explorer some crap manages to get on the system that resets the default homepage, changes the menu bar, etc. And I have no idea how to fix this stuff on a Wintel box. Guess I'll have to shell out money for a copy of AdAware or some other spyware cleanup program, not to mention all the craziness involved in installing patches.

I sure am glad I have a choice of OS for my own computer.

Escher
Your situation is my fear for the future. My wife has always been less enamoured about having the Mac at home than I have been. Its not that she does not acknowledge that the Mac is nicer to use in most ways, its just that she is less interested in computers: as a result, she has little patience for dealing with an OS with which she is not familiar (even small differences drive her crazy) and she is impatient with any Mac/PC compatibility problems (and these still sometimes do arise especially dealing with some of the special software her firm uses).

So my fear is that she will lobby hard to have a PC as our 2nd computer. If so, she will expect me to maintain it and deal with any problems, since that is not something she could/would do. That would be my nightmare.
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DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2004-07-19, 11:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney
So my fear is that she will lobby hard to have a PC as our 2nd computer. If so, she will expect me to maintain it and deal with any problems, since that is not something she could/would do. That would be my nightmare.
Dude, if she forces you to get a PC, remind her that maintaining a PC system so it always works flawlessly is pretty much a 24/7 job and that she'll have to pay you somehow. Preferably in additional sex

All I'm saying is, fight it for all your worth, but if she ends up winning, milk it for all it's worth.

Come waste your time with me
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-07-19, 11:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney
So my fear is that she will lobby hard to have a PC as our 2nd computer. If so, she will expect me to maintain it and deal with any problems, since that is not something she could/would do. That would be my nightmare.
"You're the one who wants the god damn Windows box, YOU deal with the problems! I won't touch that thing!"

Bust her down a notch.

Shows you how much I know about married life
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2004-07-19, 11:52

my wife and i were in the same boat. i told her she could get a PC if she wanted it, but i wasn't supporting it, period.

she did, and it's sitting unused in the corner somewhere. i really need to get her another iBook or PowerBook, but we'll have to see on that. (she didn't use the old one all that often, and it still had a high resell value).



in any case, i know exactly how good i have it. i support PC's and Macs at work all day long. i hate PC's.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2004-07-19, 12:02

I did the same thing with my in-laws. My father-in-law *REALLY* wanted to get a Dell through his work. Dirt cheap. And crappy. (The man will gladly pay extra $ for a car that's reliable, but when it comes to computers, all he can see is that 'this one's $100 less than that one'. Jeez.)

As the resident family expert, I simply told him that if he got a Mac, I'd happily help him with it, but if he got a PC, he was on his own. Not because I don't know how to work with it, but because I simply don't have the time to baby the thing. With a Mac, I know I can set it up once, and not worry about it. With a PC? Forget it. I'd be over there all the time. It took two years, but I finally got through to him.

He's getting an iMac for himself, and an iBook for my mother-in-law, with an AirPort Express to link them through to the cable modem.

@kickaha@social.seattle.wa.us
#IRC isn't old school... Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
Escher
Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2004-07-19, 12:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
AdAware and Spybot are both free.
I had no idea, Luca. Goes to show how little I (want to) know about Windows. Thanks for the tip! I'll download and run AdAware next time we need to boot up the Wintel box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney
she has little patience for dealing with an OS with which she is not familiar (even small differences drive her crazy) and she is impatient with any Mac/PC compatibility problems (and these still sometimes do arise).
Chinney: I am living your nightmare, right here and right now. Seriously though, being a "mixer" has its advantages. I do not regret replacing the old iMac with a Wintel box (old Pentium II piece of crap I got free from work when we upgraded workstations). When something goes wrong now, I can blame it on her choice of Windows, even if I end up having to deal with the problem. The 17" LCD I bought for the PC has dual analog/VGA and digital/DVI inputs, so it works nicely in conjunction with my new 12-inch PowerBook. In addition, even this old Wintel box is better than VPC when I want to try out an occasional Windows-only app. I might have to mess around with "her" PC, but at least she doesn't mess around with my PowerBook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBand0026
Dude, if she forces you to get a PC, remind her that maintaining a PC system so it always works flawlessly is pretty much a 24/7 job and that she'll have to pay you somehow. Preferably in additional sex
I tried. That trick doesn't work anymore once you're married. Quite the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
"You're the one who wants the god damn Windows box, YOU deal with the problems! I won't touch that thing!"
Tried that too. Then I had to tackle her to prevent her from getting on the phone with a divorce lawyer.

Ah, married life....

Escher

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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dfj225
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2004-07-19, 12:19

Well...as someone who uses Windows XP at home I think that SP2 is a big deal. For years MS has been very concerned with backwards compatibility and would seemingly opt for compatibility over security or stability. Well, it looks like things have changed and SP2 will be a fundamental change to the core of XP. It will break some older (or poorly written) apps in favor of security. I think thats a big deal and something that is really needed in the Windows world.

Also, I currently have a beta for SP2 installed and no it does not break iTunes. The only reason something should break is if it was poorly written, so if the final release does break iTunes for some reason, chances are its Apple's fault.

As far as viruses are concerned, I think that only people who are either stupid or do not apply the patches to their computer get viruses. Also, using a firewall and having common sense (ie: not opening every attachment you get) will pretty much make any Windows computer virus free.

I really don't think XP is that hard to administer. If you set it to automatically download updates and virus scan updates, all of the work is pretty much done. I don't know why so many Mac users feel its so difficult, as that has not been my experience.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2004-07-19, 13:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBand0026
Dude, if she forces you to get a PC, remind her that maintaining a PC system so it always works flawlessly is pretty much a 24/7 job and that she'll have to pay you somehow. Preferably in additional sex

All I'm saying is, fight it for all your worth, but if she ends up winning, milk it for all it's worth.
Nice thinking. If we do get that Wintel box, Ill arrange for it to go down a lotso that I can too.
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wyvern
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-07-19, 13:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney
Nice thinking. If we do get that Wintel box, Ill arrange for it to go down a lotso that I can too.
Spoken like a true BOFH.
  quote
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2004-07-19, 14:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
I really don't think XP is that hard to administer. If you set it to automatically download updates and virus scan updates, all of the work is pretty much done. I don't know why so many Mac users feel its so difficult, as that has not been my experience.
The key is that you can't have people log in as admins, you have to restrict access to the install/remove process, run all of your updates, and configure proper firewalls. Also don't use the default web browser or mail clients.

Then you have the overhead of said setup for say 50 machines, and that's a fair amount of work.

On the other hand, if you have 50 Macs, you don't need to restrict access (no gator, etc.) The updates come down before any exploits, and firewalls are optional. Mail and web programs are not a problem.

So yeah, there's a big difference in overhead when you're talking a few hundred machines.
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2004-07-19, 15:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
I really don't think XP is that hard to administer. If you set it to automatically download updates and virus scan updates, all of the work is pretty much done. I don't know why so many Mac users feel its so difficult, as that has not been my experience.
As long as you don't mind MS changing it's EULA on you when you need to update your OS, go for it.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2004-07-19, 16:03

A friend of mine has a 1.5 ghz HP with a 32 mb graphics card and 256 RAM, it's like 3 or 4 years old, but it was (pretty much) top of the line then. He recently started getting into Warcraft 3, we've been playing 1v1 and stuff and he's been enjoying it, as have I and others we play with. It's a good LAN situation we got going, so it's fun.

But his computer CHOKES up on WC3, it can't play it smoothly at all!, my other roommate has a 533 mhz. Dell with upgraded RAM and Video Card(geforce 4 I think) and it plays WC3 totally perfectly.

but by all accounts my first roommate should play it smoothly too.

the problem...VIRUSES!

So, said roommate just went on a crusade to purge his system of viruses, he had dozens of them, spyware, ad bots...etc the whole mess, it was seriously destroying his performance system wide and in WC3.

he succeeded in purging the system, but then when he rebooted, his Sound card is no longer being recognized, and he can't find drivers for it!

What a waste.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-07-19, 18:12



Oh wait, I mean...that's terrible.

  quote
DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2004-07-19, 18:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0


Oh wait, I mean...that's terrible.

No it's not. Sucks to be him, but no it's not terrible. It's terrible that he doesn't own a Mac
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Res
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2004-07-19, 18:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225

Also, I currently have a beta for SP2 installed and no it does not break iTunes. The only reason something should break is if it was poorly written, so if the final release does break iTunes for some reason, chances are its Apple's fault.
Do you know if it breaks Unreal Tournament 2004? (you can tell what I use my PC for... )
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2004-07-19, 19:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
Also, I currently have a beta for SP2 installed and no it does not break iTunes. The only reason something should break is if it was poorly written, so if the final release does break iTunes for some reason, chances are its Apple's fault.
*cough*DR-DOS*cough*
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DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2004-07-19, 19:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
Also, I currently have a beta for SP2 installed and no it does not break iTunes. The only reason something should break is if it was poorly written, so if the final release does break iTunes for some reason, chances are its Apple's fault.
You say this like there is well written Windows code

Seriously though, it probably will be poorly written. And I have my suspicions that MS will purposely break iTunes to try and get people away from the one-two punch out that iTunes and the iPod are. I doubt it will happen, but I certainly wouldn't put it past MS. They seem to be all about unethical ways of eliminating competition.

Come waste your time with me
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-07-19, 20:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBand0026
Seriously though, it probably will be poorly written.
I think you put the wrong subject to the pronoun.

I think he meant:

The only reason something (third-party software) should break is if it (the aforementioned third-party software) was poorly written.

So, iTunes would only break if iTunes was poorly-written.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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dfj225
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2004-07-19, 20:47

Well, I was speaking about taking care of the PCs in my home and not a large group of them. As far as that is concerned, I have no experience so I guess that you are probably correct. I know I wouldn't want to deal with other people's Windows problems, but as far as my home is concerned its not much of a problem.
  quote
dfj225
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2004-07-19, 20:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBand0026
You say this like there is well written Windows code

Seriously though, it probably will be poorly written. And I have my suspicions that MS will purposely break iTunes to try and get people away from the one-two punch out that iTunes and the iPod are. I doubt it will happen, but I certainly wouldn't put it past MS. They seem to be all about unethical ways of eliminating competition.
I seriously doubt that MS would purposely break iTunes. Even if they did initially break it, it's not like they could just let it stay broken. Many happy users of iTunes for windows (including me) would be seriously pissed and surely let MS know it.
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HOM
The Elder™
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Rostra
 
2004-07-19, 21:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
I seriously doubt that MS would purposely break iTunes. Even if they did initially break it, it's not like they could just let it stay broken. Many happy users of iTunes for windows (including me) would be seriously pissed and surely let MS know it.
Well, you said it best when you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfj225
Also, I currently have a beta for SP2 installed and no it does not break iTunes. The only reason something should break is if it was poorly written, so if the final release does break iTunes for some reason, chances are its Apple's fault.
Your assumption was that if iTunes broke it would be because Apple did a shitty job of programming.

Like I quoted above:

Quote:
The changes in the way Windows polices itself -- particularly the newly strengthened firewall -- could cause troubles for applications that are used to working with Windows' old ways. Some say that's particularly true of applications that regularly interact online, such as gaming programs or music services.
MS is gearing up for the launch of their music downloading service any minute now. This is just the sort of FUD that they need.

"iTunes is buggy software that makes your computer unstable and it won't run anymore. Oh, did we mention that you were locked into Apple's proprietary music format?"

I mean do I really need to list all the software that has mysteriously broken right before MS released a competing product? And now with DoHS on their ass to make Windows more secure the DoJ will surely back off the antitrust issues if it really does make Windows a better OS.

Seems like a Win/Win to me for MS. Cripple iTunes for an indefinite period of time while Apple updates it. Get's the DoJ off their back for anticompetitive acts because they are making Windows more secure and thereby America more secure.

I'm not saying that it is going to happen, just that I wouldn't put it past MS to do it.

CARTHAGO DELENDA EST

¡Viva La Revolucion!
  quote
dfj225
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2004-07-20, 15:09

Well, I can say that I have SP2's firewall turned on, in addition to the firewall in my network's router and have never had a problem connecting to the iTunes Music Store. The only new thing that users will likely have to deal with is a pop-up asking them if they want iTunes (or any other music service) to access the internet. So far, I haven't had any problems with any applications gaining access to the net. People often over-react to this sort of thing. Perhaps if you need to install this update at work it could be a big pain, but as far as home users are concerned, I don't think there will be many problems with modern apps.
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