[Unch]

(Sorry in advance if this is a bit of a rant, and the UK skew to things)

After yesterday's announcement had sunk in, two things became apparent to me - the pricing and the odd nature of the range available. I think these may have a small impact on potential new buyers

On the price, while on the MacBook "White" the US gets to enjoy a $100 price drop, here in the UK the price has gone up by £20. It's not a huge amount of cash, and there are numerous explainations, such as exchange rates - and I'm not going to start on the usual "Rip-off Britain" rants - but it does push the price over £700. It's all psychological, after all the base model was £699 previously, but when there are so many reasonable laptops available for £399, £499, I think it matters. I don't think there would be much issue if the price had remained the same, but with the Superdrive included.

Continuing with prices, the £950 for the low end new MacBook is just way off for a consumer notebook, particularly considering the current state of affairs. The MacBook is the most popular Mac ever, because it's the cheapest. Don't get me wrong, the new aluminium model beautiful bit of kit, and probably worth more than the plastic Macbook, but for the target market I think Apple has missed the mark. Then there is this amazing £200+ gulf in price between the only "white" model and the low end new model. That seems to be a rather large hole, considering that traditionally, there was only about £100 difference between iBook/MacBook models. Surely there was some room for a higher spec "white" model somewhere in there?

So finally, the line-up. Apple tends to have a fairly simple range of laptops, essentially, consumer and pro. Consumer laptops look one way, pro another. But now you basically have 4 different lines, MacBook "White", new MacBook, new MacBook Pro and 17" Aluminum MacBook Pro. That's rather messy for Apple. It also makes the two older lines less attractive purchases, they seem to be hangers on condemned to the chop in the near future. As a prospective purchaser, that is somewhat off-putting, irrational maybe, but still off-putting. I know it's made me reconsider purchasing a MacBook "White"

Also, there is no longer a strong design distinction between the Consumer and Pro lines. This may be de-value the Pro brand slightly. The Consumer/Pro distinction was always something the company seemed to be pushing, it seemed to be a model that worked well for them. It almost seems as if the new MacBook is an aborted attempt at a 13" MacBook Pro. The pricing certainly seems more in-line with the old 12" PowerBook. I wish I had my old MacWorlds to hand to check.

At the end of the day, is this going to kill Apple? No. It's unlikely to stop their phenomenal growth in the notebook sector, but I think it may handicap the growth somewhat. I think they have missed a chance to really get aggressive and grab a load more share. From a personal perspective, yesterday has certainly made me stop to reconsider my potential purchase, I think it may have the same effect on others.

[hmurchison]

They laid an egg.

It's almost as if Apple has divested any significant resources into making their computers special. They spend an inordinate amount of time talking up specious benefits like how thin the laptop is. Macintosh laptops used to be the standard that other laptops were compared to. The Macbook Pro barely compares to a basic consumer laptop in features.

Apple has really become unfocused this year and their hardware seems to only impress them.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Unch (Sorry in advance if this is a bit of a rant, and the UK skew to things) Also, there is no longer a strong design distinction between the Consumer and Pro lines. This may be de-value the Pro brand slightly. The Consumer/Pro distinction was always something the company seemed to be pushing, it seemed to be a model that worked well for them. It almost seems as if the new MacBook is an aborted attempt at a 13" MacBook Pro.

Wow. Someone agrees with me.

People can spin it anyway they like. It still remains that this was a pretty unimpressive update. This was most evident in the Keynote, where the most impressive thing they could think to talk about was the fact it had been manufactured from a single block of Aluminum. Wow.

Evidently I am not drinking enough Kool-Aid.

[Boomerangmacuser]

I can appreciate good design where form and function are well balanced. This is more a case of form OVER function. Is there some magic thermal benefit of the unibody construction that they didn't elaborate on? I doubt it. Or is it milled out of a single brick of aluminum simply because they could make it thinner.

Chasing thinness costs money. For a notebook, size (length and width) matters because you want to balance portability and screen viewability. Weight matters because you sometimes have to carry it around all day. Thinness... not so much. Who cares if it's an eigth of an inch thicker? It will still fit in your book bag and take up the same amount of desk space.

[psmith2.0]

I've wondered the same thing for a while now.

They go on a lot about the thickness of their notebooks, but I can't remember the last time I heard of someone buying a notebook based on that. I suppose it contributes slightly to the weight, but still...come on.

Once you get it out, open it up and begin using it, the thickness of the item is the last thing you notice (then it's the screen and keys, and how useful it is to you). When you're lugging it around in a bag, you're not even seeing it (and then it's the weight of the thing, and how comfortable or easy it is to tote around all day). "Thin and sleek" is about #9 on the list of Things That Matter, IMO. It strikes me more as one of those vanity/appeals-to-others things (like the debate we had in that other thread last week where a 'Novan was talking about how he wanted his pro notebook to "look different" from the cheap stuff, so everyone knows). Who gives a rip? Why is it important to impress total strangers with such meaningless, surface fluff? I assure you, they don't care...they've got their own lives and pursuits.



But Apple (and others) act like a "thin, slim notebook" is the end-all/be-all. It proves you can make a sleek, sexy product that looks good viewed from, oh...one angle.



It looks really snazzy in PR photos and review articles.

Since when does that matter much? I don't think anyone's ever gotten laid - or had their life extended by 5-8 years - by owning such a thin notebook.

There gets to be a point where chasing that gets a bit silly, and I kinda think Apple has reached it. They should be happy with the .95" or whatever it is they've reached, and not set their sights on .62 or whatever the hell (especially if it means leaving more stuff off , and I think we can all agree that they certainly would if it came down to "function vs. style"). So now that they've hit the "under 1-inch mark", they need to figure out a way to keep them speedy, cool, power efficient, etc. and quit putting so much emphases on making aluminum pancakes. We get it already...



They'll release a MacBook Pro in a year or two that is .48" thick, but all it has is a one USB port, Ethernet on a dongle, no FireWire, the headphone jack located on the palm rest, etc. And all they'll talk about during the keynote/presentation is "we've achieved the thinnest professional notebook ever" to an auditorium full of "who gives a shit; look what you had to sacrifice to do it!" stares and eye-rolls.

[Kraetos]

Apple's obsession with thin has gone too far. I would say that anything thinner than 3 cm (1.18 in) is thin enough. Thinner than that and you have to start making unnecessary sacrifices.

I would much rather have an inch-thick MacBook Air with an extra USB port and a FireWire port. Still don't want the DVD drive though - it's a power-hungry part I would barely use and is very prone to failure. As far as I'm concerned, no optical drive is a feature, not a sacrifice.

Apple's right when it comes to weight, though. 3 lb for the MacBook Air, and 4.5 lb for the new MacBooks, and 5.5 for the new MacBook Pros is damned impressive. (Gained .1, but 5.5 is still not bad at all.)

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Since when does that matter much? I don't think anyone's ever gotten laid by owning such a thin notebook.

I've gotten laid via MacBook Air.

Just Kidding! But I have had plenty of people come up and start a conversation with me because of my Air.

[Luca]

I agree... I'm more impressed with light weight than thinness. I also think having a notebook with a smaller footprint is very nice, and I sort of wish Apple would try to make the screen's bezel as narrow as possible like they did with the TiBook. But when you flatten things out to make it thinner, what does that get you? Less room for all the components, resulting in wide bezels and unnecessarily large footprints.

However, I do think that Apple's products are designed to be sexy and eye-catching. That's their hook. Anyone can make a functional laptop. But few companies make ones that are as cool and sleek as Apple's. Considering the relatively higher price of Macs anyway, I think they're also trying to make the new MacBooks more worth the cost. Sure, they cost more than an equivalent PC notebook, but they don't build PC notebooks like this!

Just think about Apple's bread and butter. These are people who care so much about design that they gladly shell out 2-3x as much money to buy a monitor that is less versatile and has a shorter warranty than any competing product. Apple wants to be as far removed from Dell as possible.

[psmith2.0]

Well they certainly are. For the (mostly) good and the not-so-good.

[spotcatbug]

Originally Posted by Luca I sort of wish Apple would try to make the screen's bezel as narrow as possible like they did with the TiBook.

Seriously.

Apple, follow these steps:

1. Take the new MacBook
2. Remove the "unnecessary" bezel around the screen (use your magic to do this)
3. Remove the "wasted" space left and right of the keyboard (more magic)

What are you left with? The new 12" MB(P?)! (as well as some more of my money)

[psmith2.0]

It sounds great, but I'm sure that stuff is there for a reason. To a point, the screen size determines the overall size, but the guts look pretty tight and packed-in. If they removed all this bezel and space beside the keyboard, what happens to the inside? Do they have to start leaving things off (they're already going down that road on their own; let's not encourage them any more ) or getting into smaller, custom boards and all that? And if so, does that add cost?



Yeah, if Apple could "trim away the fat" around the 13" MacBook (the new one, the white plastic one and the Air), they'd have an even smaller, more eye-catching computer. But I just don't know how easy it is.

One of the things I was hoping for when the MacBooks went to Intel (and we were assuming a redesign), was that very thing..."great, maybe they can remove some of that 3" bezel" ). I'll be a monkey's uncle if the MacBooks didn't come out with what appeared to be more bezel around the display...



"What the hell is this?!"

[spotcatbug]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 It sounds great, but I'm sure that stuff is there for a reason. To a point, the screen size determines the overall size, but the guts look pretty tight and packed-in. If they removed all this bezel and space beside the keyboard, what happens to the inside? Do they have to start leaving things off (they're already going down that road on their own; let's not encourage them any more ) or getting into smaller, custom boards and all that? And if so, does that add cost?

You missed where I said they had to use their magic to do it.

Anyway, they could maybe get the required volume back by making it a little thicker. Yeah, I said it.

[psmith2.0]

Blasphemy!



Eh, I don't like all that Johnny Ive shit. Magic's been going downhill ever since Doug Henning died.












Points to whoever pegs the reference...

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by spotcatbug Anyway, they could maybe get the required volume back by making it a little thicker. Yeah, I said it.

That's a great point. Apple's obsession with thinness has likely caused them to make aesthetic compromises as well as technical ones. I would much rather have a 3 cm MacBook with a slimmer bezel and a FireWire port. Honestly, it's a no brainer.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Kraetos That's a great point. Apple's obsession with thinness has likely caused them to make aesthetic compromises as well as technical ones. I would much rather have a 3 cm MacBook with a slimmer bezel and a FireWire port. Honestly, it's a no brainer.

I dunno man, that's a pretty tiny screen.

Oh you meant 3cm *thick*...

[709]

[Mugge]

I largely agree with the sentiment here. While I still think the new MBs are very well engineered, I do think this obsession with thinness and flashy design is beginning to exact it's toll on other aspects of the design.

The space on the side of the keyboard is probably necessary because the internal space for the ports don't allow the keyboard to extend all the way to the edges on such a thin notebook. On the old 12" iBooks and PBs which were thicker this was not a problem.

The same goes for the screen. Now that it has become thinner it needs to get it's structural integrity from somewhere else like the edge around it. And I don't think the new glass screen does anything good in terms of structural integrity.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Kickaha I dunno man, that's a pretty tiny screen. Oh you meant 3cm *thick*...

iWatch? MacWatch? WatchBook?

(WatchBook Pro?)

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Apple's obsession with thin has gone too far. I would say that anything thinner than 3 cm (1.18 in) is thin enough. Thinner than that and you have to start making unnecessary sacrifices. I would much rather have an inch-thick MacBook Air with an extra USB port and a FireWire port. Still don't want the DVD drive though - it's a power-hungry part I would barely use and is very prone to failure. As far as I'm concerned, no optical drive is a feature, not a sacrifice. Apple's right when it comes to weight, though. 3 lb for the MacBook Air, and 4.5 lb for the new MacBooks, and 5.5 for the new MacBook Pros is damned impressive.

I have to agree and re-link this Sony VAIO which is 1.33" at the thickest part and as thin as 0.99" but weighing in at 4.14 lbs.

It has 2 USB ports, and Firewire, starting at $1099.
It's not nearly as sexy as the new MacBooks but, not bad.
The MacBook still has this beat, except for the weight, price and missing Firewire port.

[Foj]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Magic's been going downhill ever since Doug Henning died.

[GOLDFRAPP]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 They'll release a MacBook Pro in a year or two that is .48" thick, but all it has is a one USB port, Ethernet on a dongle, no FireWire, the headphone jack located on the palm rest, etc. And all they'll talk about during the keynote/presentation is "we've achieved the thinnest professional notebook ever" to an auditorium full of "who gives a shit; look what you had to sacrifice to do it!" stares and eye-rolls.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by 709

You da man...

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by Satchmo I have to agree and re-link this Sony VAIO which is 1.33" at the thickest part and as thin as 0.99" but weighing in at 4.14 lbs.

I know someone who has this (or a very similar) model. One of the reasons for this is small footprint. He's a consultant, living most of the week in hotels. He can easily take it with him to a restaurant and read/work while waiting for dinner without using all space on the table.

I have similar feelings like most here in this thread: Apple concentrates too much on being "different" than the rest of the notebooks. I once bought the Pismo PowerBook (G3 400Mhz) in 2001. At its time, it blowed all other PCs out of the water. It had a fast Processor (those were the days ), was able to play movies from its DVD drive, included an option for an internal airport card, had tons of interfaces (e.g. Firewire) etc. And the price was competitive as there wasn't any other notebook for this money with comparable specs. My wife uses it still today for surfing. Who still uses a PC notebook from that time?

And nowadays? You get a Notebook which is thinner than PC Notebooks. As PScates already mentioned: Who cares?

[atomicbartbeans]

Well with using the same chips available to any PC manufacturer, how could we expect modern-day Apple notebooks to perform significantly better than their PC counterparts?

It's cool with me though. Apple is clearly innovating way faster than everyone else, even if they make silly decisions and unnecessary sacrifices from time to time (such as the lack of FireWire). The older MacBooks are still very capable and available if you really need FW - and we can only hope that Apple will respond to feedback (just as they have in the past) and include it in the next revision.

[wecallitfall]

I completely agree with the OP, Apple has dropped the ball with the pricing of these machines in the UK - £719 is such a random price, from a marketing point of view it makes no sense* - the psychological barrier of the £699 is shattered by that £20, furthermore this is a price increase for "yesterdays" technology

And what will be worse is that massive £200 gap, from my experience selling MacBooks for two years the midrange (then £829) model was ALWAYS the most popular - firstly consumers were offered a compelling reason to upgrade from the base model because of the superdrive, AND its a sweet spot in price.

Because of the way Apple rolls these days it means anyone wanting a "next generation" MacBook, and say MS Office, iWork, a friggin' Mighty Mouse etc is forced to spend over £1000 and i'm sure that will put a hell of a lot of people off

*They also did this with the 4G nano - £109 WTF?

[Robo]

Can I ask something?

Over and over again in this thread people are talking about Apple "sacrificing" things to make their notebooks thinner and nobody cares about thinner notebooks, yada yada. But, um, what exactly did Apple sacrifice from the new MacBook? FireWire, I know, but what else?

Is there something I'm missing? Because I like the new MacBook, and you're all treating it like the Plague.

[Kickaha]

Apple Watcher Rule #73: No matter what price point, what feature set, what innovations any product has, there will be a set of people whose volume bitching about it greatly exceeds their influence or marketshare.

[spotcatbug]

Originally Posted by Roboman Can I ask something? Over and over again in this thread people are talking about Apple "sacrificing" things to make their notebooks thinner and nobody cares about thinner notebooks, yada yada. But, um, what exactly did Apple sacrifice from the new MacBook? FireWire, I know, but what else? Is there something I'm missing? Because I like the new MacBook, and you're all treating it like the Plague.

I think this all got a little muddled, but I think it boils down to some of us are saying that Apple has sacrificed small footprint for thinness. Not specific to the MacBook, just Apple laptops in general. I.E. where's the 12" MB(P)? It almost seems like you could make one by taking a MacBook and making it thicker to fit the necessary stuff inside.

[Xaqtly]

I like them too, for me the firewire thing is really a buzz killer though. I like them in just about every other way I can think of though.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly I like them too, for me the firewire thing is really a buzz killer though. I like them in just about every other way I can think of though.

Agreed. The loss of FW is disappointing (more for loss of TDM than anything else, for me... that has saved my bacon a few times), but it's not a deal killer by any means.