[Iago]

Oh man this is good. Sprint's CEO Dan Hesse, when asked about how the Palm Pre was doing against the iPhone, said the following:

Originally Posted by Dumbass Aaah... It's-it's doing well, but you can almost put the iPhone, to be fair, in a separate category. The Apple brand and that device have done so well, it's almost not... it's like comparing someone to Michael Jordan.

Gruber has summed this up pretty well:

Originally Posted by Gruber This is one of the worst answers he could have given. Even just plain “No” would have been better than comparing the iPhone to Jordan, which suggests that Hesse doesn’t believe they can compete. He could have simply said that the iPhone has a two-year head start, and Sprint is happy with how the Pre is doing three months in.

So I think this is going to end up on a slide at the media event in January, like the Microsoft director (can't recall his name) who sent that internal memo saying he'd buy a Mac if he was a customer. But more importantly, I also think this is a hint at AT&T's exclusivity on iPhone approaching its end.

Is this the dumbest thing Hesse could have done, short of pissing on the journalist and then setting Sprint's entire stock of the Pre on fire?

Edit: Maybe he believed the Randall Stephenson death hoax from Digg and wanted to apply for the job

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Iago Is this the dumbest thing Hesse could have done, short of pissing on the journalist and then setting Sprint's entire stock of the Pre on fire?

That might have been better, actually. If he did that, they could just say "Hesse's crazy" and fire him. He just admitted that the best they can do is second-best (which I'm not certain the Pre is, since I haven't used it).

I've actually been impressed with Sprint's progress under Hesse's leadership, but this is ridiculously stupid on his part. I hope he doesn't get canned over it, though. He's the best thing to happen to Sprint leadership in a long time, even with his too-big mouth.

[Robo]

I thought it was a pretty good interview, to be honest. He answered brutally tough questions honestly (admitting that Sprint overpaid for Nextel and that the merger was a "bad idea" is a far bigger deal than calling the iPhone a Jordan phone) and he discussed Sprint's (near) future rather openly.

How does admitting that the iPhone is the success it obviously is make Hesse a "dumbass"? He would be a dumbass if he tried to ignore the iPhone.

By the way, he also said

Originally Posted by Hesse, from that same interview "It was really kind of Palm's decision to take on Apple. And Palm has had [a] long standing relationship with Sprint."

Basically, trying to back away from any handset "rivalry" there.

I mean, what would be the "smart" thing to do? Call the iPhone a bag of shit, and guarantee that Apple would never ever let them carry it? Of course not.

You (and apparently Gruber) are the only one I know who's reacted to that "Michael Jordan" line so negatively...Engadget summed it up as this:

"If that's not a tactful acknowledgment that the iPhone is a bona fide wireless superstar, we don't know what is. Hesse's giving the iPhone the respect it's rightfully earned -- as any strategically-minded executive would."

Or from the article you linked to:

"Hesse's remarks are surprising because most executives, be they from Palm, Microsoft, or Verizon, have been quick to downplay the success of the iPhone and trump up their own products and services. To his credit, Hesse seems to understand that it's better to acknowledge that there's work to be done instead of blindly asserting that things couldn't be going better."

He said what every other exec at every other company was thinking. Verizon wouldn't want people to start to expect that the Storm would outsell the iPhone, either. I'm not going to berate him for being honest.

It wasn't like he was praising the iPhone as much as stating the blinding obvious. It was surprising, but I don't think Sprint customers are suddenly going to take that as a sign to jump ship and buy an iPhone (if they haven't already ). Again, the Nextel quote is the far "bigger" one, in the grand scheme of things...that's the one I expected to be over-analyzed, on the tech blogs...

...but maybe that's just an obvious truth too.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Sprint has already cut the Pre's price by $100 to $100. If that isn't tacit acknowledgment of the Pre's 3rd place status to iPhone and Blackberry, then nothing is.

I'm much happier reading Hesse's take on the iPhone in this interview than I was reading about Balmer's take on an MS employee snapping a pic of him using an iPhone. The fact Balmer wants to ignore the iPhone instead of focusing his company on putting out a product that takes on the iPhone shows what kind of (non) leader Balmer is. Playing ostrich doesn't help MS in the slightest bit.

On the other hand, Sprint has to stop customer exodus, and it sounds like Hesse at least knows what he's up against and isn't trying to ignore the iPhone's success.

[kdcny]

I'm with Roboman, and I think Gruber's analysis is short-sighted. When I read this last week, I thought it was very smart on Hesse's part. He's downplaying any expectations that the Pre would "beat" the iPhone or would convert a lot of subscribers over to Sprint, and at the same time he wins points with Apple. And, why wouldn't he want to win points with Apple? He knows he's going to lose the exclusivity of the Pre after the first of the year, so why pretend that he ADORES it when he doesn't? Why not show Apple that Sprint's worthy to be the premier carrier for LTE iPhones in 2010? After all, Apple's already had a few bad run-ins with Verizon (the ROKR, the rumors of them rebuffing an initial iPhone approach), and even though it has a huge customer base, lots of people are switching carriers for the iPhone. Why not make Verizon wait for 6 months while Sprint gets an exclusive LTE iPhone?

I'm not saying any of this would happen, but why wouldn't Hesse try for it? Can you blame him?

In essense, what I heard Hesse say was, "Yeah, the Pre's really good. But if it weren't for the exclusive contract Apple has with AT&T, Sprint would want the iPhone as well. We want the best devices available for our customers on our network."

::shrug:: Pretty straightforward.

(This doesn't even get into how Sprint might want Apple's business in other product arenas. Keep in mind, the Kindle's wireless access is over Sprint's network. Ubiquitous wireless for a potential tablet or laptops through Sprint? Not out of the realm of possibility.)

[Wyatt]

I disagree with all three of you. I don't think Hesse's saying "Yeah, I know the iPhone is doing better."

I think he's saying "The iPhone is so goddamned good that we don't have a chance to compete with it. We're happy to be second (or third) best."

THAT is what Michael Jordan was. By calling it the Michael Jordan of phones, he's pretty much giving up on the idea of ever upstaging it.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend Sprint has already cut the Pre's price by $100 to $100. If that isn't tacit acknowledgment of the Pre's 3rd place status to iPhone and Blackberry, then nothing is.

Nitpick: They cut the price of it $50, to $150, and that's still after a $100 mail-in rebate (which you can mercifully avoid by buying the Pre, oh, anywhere else). The Pre was sort of overpriced from the start - the 8GB Pre going up against the 16GB iPhone 3G S? - so I think the new price is more reasonable (and would be more reasonable still if they got rid of the rebates entirely). webOS will break the $99 barrier, but only with the (8GB) Pixi later this fall.

Originally Posted by kdcny I'm with Roboman, and I think Gruber's analysis is short-sighted. When I read this last week, I thought it was very smart on Hesse's part. He's downplaying any expectations that the Pre would "beat" the iPhone or would convert a lot of subscribers over to Sprint, and at the same time he wins points with Apple. And, why wouldn't he want to win points with Apple? He knows he's going to lose the exclusivity of the Pre after the first of the year, so why pretend that he ADORES it when he doesn't? Why not show Apple that Sprint's worthy to be the premier carrier for LTE iPhones in 2010? After all, Apple's already had a few bad run-ins with Verizon (the ROKR, the rumors of them rebuffing an initial iPhone approach), and even though it has a huge customer base, lots of people are switching carriers for the iPhone. Why not make Verizon wait for 6 months while Sprint gets an exclusive LTE iPhone?

Nitpicks: The iTunes-loaded ROKR was exclusive to Cingular, not Verizon. Also, Sprint is focusing on WiMAX and will not have any sizable LTE deployment in 2010, even if something drastic happens.

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman How does admitting that the iPhone is the success it obviously is make Hesse a "dumbass"? He would be a dumbass if he tried to ignore the iPhone.

He's not a dumbass for admitting that it's a success. In fact that would have made him S-M-A-R-T, smart! But he didn't acknowledge that it was a success. He said it was the best there will ever be and that Palm doesn't have a chance of matching it.

Look at it this way: do you want to hear Steve Jobs say Apple could never match Microsoft's market share, and that Apple is happy with second best? Do you want to hear Steve Ballmer say Windows will never match the quality of Windows, and that Microsoft is happy with second best? If you do, do you think investors would feel the same way about such a chronic lack of ambition?

Originally Posted by Roboman I mean, what would be the "smart" thing to do? Call the iPhone a bag of shit, and guarantee that Apple would never ever let them carry it? Of course not.

No. The smart thing would have been to say that the Pre is the better phone, and that it's going to continue to improve. The smart thing would have been to say how happy they were with its performance so far. The smart thing would have been not to say that your company cannot compete with the market leader, even if it's intended in a "we're happy to be second best" sense. These would all have been smart things to say. Here's what he could have said:

"iPhone has been a great success story for Apple and has exceeded their expectations. The Pre is exceeding all our expectations at Sprint and we're thrilled that we have the best smartphone on the market in our locker. Palm OS is the most technically advanced smartphone OS on the market, and it's only going to get better."

It may be true that iPhone is the best smartphone on the market, but Palm shareholders must be pretty annoyed that their biggest partner isn't publicly backing them, they're actually saying how much better their chief competitor is. Dumb dumb dumb.

Hell, he could even have turned it around and said "The iPhone is a great device on a poor network. Pre is an outstanding device on an outstanding network." Just anything other than what he said. Whether he wants Apple's business or not, he's got to keep Palm happy.

[Robo]

Iago: I agree that I would have certainly worded it differently better, but I think you (and, apparently, Gruber) are reading a bit too much into the comment. I don't recall him ever saying the iPhone "was the best there will ever be and that Palm doesn't have a chance of matching it." He was talking about sales figures in a business-interview context, not about the quality/lack thereof of Apple's/Palm's devices. (And as far as sales figures go, Palm will never match the iPhone. The iPhone is a phenomenon, in every sense of the word. People expecting the Pre to suddenly outsell the iPhone need to get a dose of reality, which is probably what Hesse was seeking to provide. He didn't want people to use iPhone sales as a barometer for the Pre's success, which is simply unrealistic. Still, I wouldn't have mentioned the iPhone at all, unless it was specifically brought up.)

EDIT: I think you're misunderstanding the interview. It wasn't a general-public sort of thing (it was on PBS, which means it's as far removed from the public's eye as possible ). It was a "hardhitting" business interview, where fluff answers about the Pre being the "best smartphone on the market" would have just drawn further questions and incredulity. It's not like Sprint took out an ad to the American public to proclaim the iPhone to be awesome.

Just curious: Why do you think Sprint has to keep Palm happy? Pre exclusivity expires at the end of the year, and it's going to hit Verizon, no matter how "happy" Palm is with Sprint. And look how Sprint's treating Palm, anyway: webOS is going downmarket this fall and Sprint's two flagships for the holiday season are running Android. Sprint is clearly more important to Palm's success than Palm is to Sprint's. The sooner Palm ditches them, the better for Palm.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by Wyatt I disagree with all three of you. I don't think Hesse's saying "Yeah, I know the iPhone is doing better." I think he's saying "The iPhone is so goddamned good that we don't have a chance to compete with it. We're happy to be second (or third) best." THAT is what Michael Jordan was. By calling it the Michael Jordan of phones, he's pretty much giving up on the idea of ever upstaging it.

To continue the analogy.

He's also keeping in mind that in a year Sprint might be able to acquire the iPhone in a trade. If you're courting Michael Jordan to come play for your team when his contract is up in a few months, you don't say that new, young star you just drafted is better when everyone on the planet knows it isn't true.

You say Jordan is the best, the new guy is pretty good too, and you're hoping like hell to have both of them in your line up if possible.

Sprint doesn't make phones, they sell a service.

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman Iago: I agree that I would have certainly worded it differently better, but I think you (and, apparently, Gruber) are reading a bit too much into the comment.

If that's the case, his comments are open to misinterpretation at best.

Originally Posted by Roboman I don't recall him ever saying the iPhone "was the best there will ever be and that Palm doesn't have a chance of matching it."

That's what the Michael Jordan thing implies. When Michael Jordan played you didn't have a chance of beating the Chicago Bulls unless he had a seriously bad day at the office. You can interpret his comments any one of a dozen ways, but they all end up with iPhone being an insurmountable problem.

Originally Posted by Roboman He was talking about sales figures in a business-interview context, not about the quality/lack thereof of Apple's/Palm's devices.

Originally Posted by Dumbass The Apple brand and that device have done so well, it's almost not... it's like comparing someone to Michael Jordan [to compare the Palm Pre to the iPhone].

He could easily be talking about either.

Originally Posted by Roboman (And as far as sales figures go, Palm will never match the iPhone. The iPhone is a phenomenon, in every sense of the word. People expecting the Pre to suddenly outsell the iPhone need to get a dose of reality, which is probably what Hesse was seeking to provide. He didn't want people to use iPhone sales as a barometer for the Pre's success, which is simply unrealistic. Still, I wouldn't have mentioned the iPhone at all, unless it was specifically brought up.)

I don't think anybody suddenly expects Palm to match iPhone, but what you have to hope for is a degree of competitiveness. What he said, quite plainly, was "iPhone is in a separate category [to other mobile phones]". For him it's now the situation you have on Amazon with MP3 players. 'iPod' and 'All the others'.

I take your point that he could be talking solely about sales and not about quality but then he's just as much a dumbass for not making it clear that he was discussing sales. He could also have added that sales weren't indicative of the quality of the product.

Moreover, the question isn't about Palm taking customers from Apple. It's about the iPhone's market. The smartphone market. It's "How are you doing in the mixer?" not "Pwned Apple yet?" I like how the mention of iPhone totally throws him. I like to think of him sitting for that interview on the phone with his tie loosened and a glass of single-malt in his hand as he reads another snarky comment from Palm about iPhone.

[Robo]

Iago: See my edit. It was a business interview; they weren't talking about the quality of the devices, just sales.

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman Just curious: Why do you think Sprint has to keep Palm happy?

Because Palm is maybe the best hope for a product that actually genuinely competes with iPhone. If you were Palm would you take such a product to Sprint after this?

Originally Posted by alcimedes He's also keeping in mind that in a year Sprint might be able to acquire the iPhone in a trade. If you're courting Michael Jordan to come play for your team when his contract is up in a few months, you don't say that new, young star you just drafted is better when everyone on the planet knows it isn't true.

That's the only plausible explanation, but he should still have thought long and hard before introducing the ambiguous Jordan analogy. The quote reads like he's fawning over (and a little resigned to failure by) how good iPhone is, whilst largely ignoring the Palm. He was asked a question about his only competitive interest in that market at the moment, and here's the breakdown:

Palm Pre: 3 words (four if you include "Aaah")
iPhone: 34 words

*shrug*

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Iago Because Palm is maybe the best hope for a product that actually genuinely competes with iPhone. If you were Palm would you take such a product to Sprint after this?

No, but I wouldn't have taken such a product to Sprint before this, either. Certainly not exclusively.

I don't think that one quip is going to destabilize the Palm/Sprint relationship, especially if all of Sprint's other blunders haven't. Sprint is still a sinking ship, but Palm just luuurves them for some reason.

Originally Posted by Iago The quote reads like he's fawning over (and a little resigned to failure by) how good iPhone is.

Nobody is saying that the Jordan analogy was the best possible choice of words. It was bad, simply because it could be taken "the wrong way" and out of context (and it has been). But that doesn't mean that those out-of-context opinions are what Hesse was actually trying to express. I don't think he was fawning over the iPhone. He was trying to reduce sales expectations for the Pre, by saying that it wasn't fair to expect the Pre to match it. That's it.

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman Iago: See my edit. It was a business interview; they weren't talking about the quality of the devices, just sales.

It doesn't read that way. It reads like he's comparing iPhone to Michael Jordan as a product. Michael Jordan, the best basketball player, iPhone, the best smartphone. Again: whatever he meant by any of this, it was thoroughly misguided. There were so many better ways to say whatever he meant to say, whether it was an attempt to tip his hat to Apple or some kind of weird slight at Palm. Or even if he just wanted to say it like it is, he could have done better. That was my original point. He said something really stupid.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Iago It doesn't read that way.

But you seemingly read one pullquote from the interview, devoid of any context (such as the audience and focus of the show).

It was not a Today-show, "Dan Hesse from Sprint is here to show how cool Sprint's new Palm Pilot is!" sort of thing. If he went on the Today show and said that the iPhone was the best smartphone, that would be dumb. But this was a strictly-business interview. They were talking sales. To the show's intended audience, the admission - right from the top! - that Sprint overpaid billions for Nextel and that the merger was a bad idea is far more important. But techies are taking one sentence from the interview and acting like it was the interview's entire focus. It wasn't.

Never thought I would be defending Sprint

Originally Posted by Iago Again: whatever he meant by any of this, it was thoroughly misguided.

Like I said:

Originally Posted by Me! Nobody is saying that the Jordan analogy was the best possible choice of words. It was bad, simply because it could be taken "the wrong way" and out of context (and it has been). But that doesn't mean that those out-of-context opinions are what Hesse was actually trying to express. I don't think he was fawning over the iPhone. He was trying to reduce sales expectations for the Pre, by saying that it wasn't fair to expect the Pre to match it. That's it.

So I think we sort of agree, there.

[addison]

Robo is right. The only news in this interview was the admission that the Nextel deal was a bad idea. Investors have wanted to hear this for some time now. As for why Palm sticks with Sprint? It comes down to loyalty. Sprint has always supported Palm even during their decline while other carriers walked away.

And let's hope that the "something drastic" never happens. If you thought the Sprint/Nextel merger was bad....

[Iago]

Originally Posted by Roboman But you seemingly read one pullquote from the interview, devoid of any context (such as the audience and focus of the show).

I read the entire transcript. But like most observers, the only bits of interest were Nextel and iPhone.

Originally Posted by Roboman It was not a Today-show, "Dan Hesse from Sprint is here to show how cool Sprint's new Palm Pilot is!" sort of thing. If he went on the Today show and said that the iPhone was the best smartphone, that would be dumb. But this was a strictly-business interview. They were talking sales.

And in the midst of that he makes an ambiguous analogy comparing iPhone to Michael Jordan. I can see why you're defending his mistake, but it doesn't make it any less stupid. It's a good thing Apple isn't the most watched technology company in the world or that admission of defeat might get reported! Oh wait.

Originally Posted by Roboman To the show's intended audience, the admission - right from the top! - that Sprint overpaid billions for Nextel and that the merger was a bad idea is far more important. But techies are taking one sentence from the interview and acting like it was the interview's entire focus. It wasn't.

Nobody is saying it's the entire focus of the interview. It amounts to someone who has a vested interest in seeing the Palm Pre succeed emphatically stating that it will never compete with the market leader. Nothing more and nothing less. Regardless of all the contextual details, that's a silly thing to say. I can't remember a competing product in recent history that has been given that kind of assessment so soon after launch by such a senior benefactor. It's baffling not for what he meant but for what he said, and how he said it. I've no doubt the myriad intentions people on here have speculated about are accurate. But again, it was still a dumb thing to say.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Iago But again, it was still a dumb thing to say.

I'll agree with you there.

Yay! Agreeing!

So, like, Sprint is supposedly getting better but I think their WiMAX gambit is going to come back to hurt them in a big, big way. The moment Verizon announced that they were going with LTE, Sprint was screwed.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Roboman Yay! Agreeing!

Agreeing is boring.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by chucker Agreeing is boring.

I disagree.

Wait...dammit.

[ime_NY]

Hmm...

Michael Jordan was inducted into the basketball Hall of Fame this weekend. In his speech, he admitted that he cringes when people talk about who will be the next MJ. He said the label of greatest player ever is unfair to the basketball players who played before them and played after him; the tag of "greatest" is only appropriate when talking about his time. Taking that into account, Hesse's statements sounds more like an admission that Palm products will never live up to the iPhone-killer status. Ever.

I'm more confused with the comparison to MJ. I think LeBron or Kobe would be a more appropriate comparison. At the very least, it doesn't "immortalize" the achievements of the iPhone the way MJ's achievements have been immortalized in sports legacy.

What's the technological equivalent of 6 NBA championships, 5 MVPs, ridiculous records, and Wheaties poster boy fame? Is it the iPhone?

[Robo]

Originally Posted by ime_NY Hmm... Michael Jordan was inducted into the basketball Hall of Fame this weekend. In his speech, he admitted that he cringes when people talk about who will be the next MJ. He said the label of greatest player ever is unfair to the basketball players who played before them and played after him; the tag of "greatest" is only appropriate when talking about his time. Taking that into account, Hesse's statements sounds more like an admission that Palm products will never live up to the iPhone-killer status. Ever. I'm more confused with the comparison to MJ. I think LeBron or Kobe would be a more appropriate comparison. At the very least, it doesn't "immortalize" the achievements of the iPhone the way MJ's achievements have been immortalized in sports legacy. What's the technological equivalent of 6 NBA championships, 5 MVPs, ridiculous records, and Wheaties poster boy fame? Is it the iPhone?

Again, I think that's reading waaaaaaay too much into an off-the-cuff remark.