[drewprops]

Okay,

With a war of strategy unfolding between Apple and Google in regard to phone platforms, have you ever... EVER thought "what would be my backup plan if I decided to leave the iPhone platform?"

The whole Apple Maps hubbub has made me wonder this especially.

So what IS it like to work on a Mac but not use an iPhone?

How do you manage?


...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by drewprops So what IS it like to work on a Mac but not use an iPhone? How do you manage?

No problem, I would suspect. I can't really speak for them, but several of my coworkers have Apple computers and Android phones, and they seem quite content.

[drewprops]

Buh.. buh... buh... iTunes?
I know, where there's a will there's a hack.

Have YOU thought about it Brad?


...

[torifile]

I've actually done this several times. I didn't post about it here because I like to keep my nutiness off the boards, but it's quite miserable, to be honest. I'm heavily invested in my ecosystem, though, with iPhoto/Aperture and photo stream, iTunes, etc.

The novelty is nice and exciting but it's like that high maintenance mistress. Not worth the trouble.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by drewprops Buh.. buh... buh... iTunes? I know, where there's a will there's a hack. Have YOU thought about it Brad? ...

Two of the guys I think don't use their phone as a music player. At least one of them uses Pandora for music, I think.

I've only thought about it in the purely academic sense. I don't pay for my iPhone; I get it as part of my job (it comes with added responsibilities like being on a 24-hour call rotation). So, I don't have the same economic motivations.

[turtle]

I have used Windows Mobile with Mac for years before switching to the iPhone 4S on launch day. It isn't bad if you're willing to invest into third party stuff like MissingSync. I imagine I would make a GREAT Android user personally. I'm a Linux Admin and have no fear of flashing my phone with a new custom OS. I did this many times with my old WM phones.

The thing is I always get tied into the ecosystem. I have more Palm OS apps than I know what to do with. Now I have forgotten about them. Same for WM apps. I try to think of things in a cost per use to help me get over all the money I've spent on apps actually. This nice part about iOS apps is that I have zero problem sharing the apps with my wife and kids where it wasn't as easy with WM.

Android might be the same but I haven't looked into it at all. I hate the Metro UI with a passion so there is less than a zero chance I'm ever going to WP at all. Or Windows 8 for that matter. In fact I'm more apt to go for Fedora with XFCE for an everyday desktop if I ever leave Mac...but that's another aside.

Bottom line is that if you leave iOS and stay on a Mac it will take tinkering and manhandling. Nothing just works. Extra apps like MissingSync make it less painful though.

[torifile]

Here's the thing about all the other devices I've tried - and I've tried many: they all emphasize the wrong things. They try to appeal on specs and options and features. Those things are great for geeking out but they are terrible for actual use. Take my experience with the Galaxy Nexus. I had it for nearly a month and I was this close >< to keeping it. But when it was time to pack for our trip to Disney World (my kids' first), I couldn't imagine going with the GN because of the camera. I needed a good camera on me. I didn't want to have to lug my DSLR around so I shelved the GN and pulled out the iPhone 4S.

I thought long and hard about it because it had a bigger screen, LTE, etc., but when it came down to it, the iPhone emphasized the features that matter to me, not now, but when I'm reliving the experience. That is, I never thought about the trouble it would have been to have a shitty camera or a dead phone at the end of the day. The iPhone just got out of my way and let me do my thing.

That's also how I feel about iOS vs. Android. All the complaints about how limited iOS is just miss the point. I want the OS to get out of the way. It's supposed to be unobtrusive and not throwing all sorts of shit at me. It's just a platform on which things are based, not the thing I'm using all day long. It's supposed to be stable and straightforward. I'm not supposed to have to think about how to use it. The apps are supposed to be the centerpiece, not the OS they're running on.

[chucker]

Why would the backup have to be Android? The Windows Phone design team put, gasp, actual thought into what else a mobile OS could be like.

[drewprops]

That's a great point Chucker!

I did not consider the other options.


...

[nikstar101]

I am seriously considering a Nokia Lumia 920, even though I just got an iPhone 5 (I know i am crazy and need help!! ). I know it seems mad and the iPhone 5 is a great phone and its not a half arsed release like may of the tech press clam it to be.

Its actually iOS that is starting to bug me. I see what Torfile says about it being in the background and not getting in the way, it should just work without you noticing. And iOS does do that, but i feel that the Live Tile principle from WP is a really good idea. As a lot of the time i end up opening Apps (Mail, Messages, Weather) to see things that i feel I should just be able to glance at without having to go into the App. I guess you could say I should make better use of the notification bar thing, but even having to drop that down is annoying. I like to flick the screen on see if there is anything important and then off. The way updates and notifications work in iOS has still yet to win me over.

So i may pass the iPhone onto the Girlfriend and have a real life experiment with Windows Phone come November. Fortunately MS have released that syncing App for the Mac so i hope it won't be a major issue when i transfer.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Fortunately MS have released that syncing App for the Mac so i hope it won't be a major issue when i transfer.

What's that app called?

I have nothing to switch, since I don't have an iPhone, and if I did I wouldn't be switching. But I do like the look of Windows Phone 8.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray What's that app called? I have nothing to switch, since I don't have an iPhone, and if I did I wouldn't be switching. But I do like the look of Windows Phone 8.

Windows Phone 7 Connector

[kscherer]

Ha! I don't carry a cell phone! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thus, my backup plan is to continue to refuse to carry a cell phone.

Did I mention that synching a non-existing phone with any computer platform is a breeze!

…

Ignore me. I have nothing important to add.

[Kraetos]

If iPhone disappeared tomorrow I would pick up the latest and greatest Lumia. Nearly every Android phone I've ever used was an over-engineered, under-designed, flimsy, oversized, battery-sucking hunk of shit.

The Nexus line is tolerable but the Galaxy and the RAZR lines are just atrocious. OTOH I find the Windows Phone/Lumia experience to be thoughtfully designed, albeit limited. Actually I'd probably end up with a Lumia and a Nexus 7, since the Windows Phone app landscape is still lacking. But not in a million years would I use an Android phone as my primary communication device.

[PB PM]

No iPhone? I'd just grab the cheapest phone I could find. Hate the Android interface. Guess that leaves Window mobile.

[El Gallo]

I've owned and used several Android phones. I camp in places during the summer that only Verizon reaches so I've bought and played with several used Android that I put on prepaid plans.

I stocked up on a bunch of apps during the Google Ten Billion downloads sale. They were $0.10 each so for about $3-4 I covered almost everything I use on both platforms. (Endomondo Pro for $0.10 was really a steal.)

Apparently they are getting ready to do something the same again but this time at $0.25.

Most of the time I never own an Android phone and even when I do during the summer, I mostly loath it but to feel safe regarding cross-platform apps for less than the cost of lunch is nice.

[psmith2.0]

If the iPhone went away tomorrow, I'd just give up the notion of smartphones and buy a cheap little flip-phone for calls. I'd simply go back to my Mac for the rest and look back fondly on the five or so years I had with such an awesome device.

Seriously.

I don't mean to sound so f**b**-ish about it, but I know in my heart I'm not going to get a comparable - and as clean and fun of a user experience - from any of the others. Honestly, I don't even want to go through the hassle and effort of trying. I can't imagine trying (or wanting) to "unlearn" iOS and then wrap my head around Android or any of the others. Sorry...no interest at all.

So...no iPhone = me going back to just a regular cell phone.

Honestly. I don't need all this stuff, as much as I want/like it. I went for nearly four decades without a "computer in my pocket". Pretty sure I could go back to that existence, if I had to. Especially when I know that anything else I used, I'd be constantly comparing it against the iPhone/iOS and I'd drive myself completely nuts in about 3-4 weeks...

And you know what? The same goes for computers. At this point in my life, they need me more than I need them. If Apple folded tomorrow and the Mac ceased to exist, I'd just go be a truck driver or throw myself back into music. And I'd just go back to pen and ink, or watercolors, for any artistic expression I felt I needed.

Hopefully Apple - and their products - never go away. But if they do, I've already got an escape hatch/plan B in place. And the thought of it doesn't freak me out nearly as much as it might've 5-10 years ago. I'd almost welcome it at this point...

[Jason]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 If the iPhone went away tomorrow, I'd just give up the notion of smartphones and buy a cheap little flip-phone for calls. I'd simply go back to my Mac for the rest and look back fondly on the five or so years I had with such an awesome device. Seriously. I don't mean to sound so f**b**-ish about it, but I know in my heart I'm not going to get a comparable - and as clean and fun of a user experience - from any of the others. Honestly, I don't even want to go through the hassle and effort of trying. I can't imagine trying (or wanting) to "unlearn" iOS and then wrap my head around Android or any of the others. Sorry...no interest at all. So...no iPhone = me going back to just a regular cell phone. Honestly. I don't need all this stuff, as much as I want/like it. I went for nearly four decades without a "computer in my pocket". Pretty sure I could go back to that existence, if I had to. Especially when I know that anything else I used, I'd be constantly comparing it against the iPhone/iOS and I'd drive myself completely nuts in about 3-4 weeks... And you know what? The same goes for computers. At this point in my life, they need me more than I need them. If Apple folded tomorrow and the Mac ceased to exist, I'd just go be a truck driver or throw myself back into music. And I'd just go back to pen and ink, or watercolors, for any artistic expression I felt I needed. Hopefully Apple - and their products - never go away. But if they do, I've already got an escape hatch/plan B in place. And the thought of it doesn't freak me out nearly as much as it might've 5-10 years ago. I'd almost welcome it at this point...

Best post I've read in ages. I feel exactly the same.

[drewprops]

A buddy is testing out one of those thin white Samsung phones running Android and I got to play with it last night at a bar. I liked that it had a lot of settings and I liked the way it gives a tiny vibratory "bump" whenever you tap on the keyboard and on the screen.

I liked how BIG the screen was.

The machine was SERIOUSLY fast.

Some of the menus are buried, kind of like windows, but you can learn that stuff.

Did I mention how THIN the thing is?

I'm impressed.

I expressed concern about iTunes music and a guy sitting next to us explained that you can get Google Play to sync with iTunes somehow in order to port your songs into the phone.

Every phone has a certain "physics" to it and it would take me a bit to become accustomed to the larger screen territory... the longer scrolls and such.

Scates, you talk about being stuck in the Apple iOS, but these interfaces are moving into more things, things that are not phones. And after having fiddled with one I have to say that it's not beyond your ability to learn the Android interface.

Am I ready to move away to Android now?

I'm not sure.

Time will tell.




...

[psmith2.0]

I'm not "stuck", and I'm sure I could learn Android (or anything else). It's the "wanting to" part.

I don't need any of this. I just like it.

[El Gallo]

Originally Posted by drewprops A buddy is testing out one of those thin white Samsung phones running Android and I got to play with it last night at a bar. I liked that it had a lot of settings and I liked the way it gives a tiny vibratory "bump" whenever you tap on the keyboard and on the screen.

I'm pretty sure the iPhone has haptic feedback for typing. I turn it off on every phone I own because it slows down my typing. I suspect your friend had the Samsung Galaxy S3 which is indeed selling a ton of units.

I have a little confession to add too. I went down and played with the iPad mini. It is really nice but my eyes still work too well to tolerate the non-retina display. That said, I find reading books on my iPhone 4s to just be annoying because the text has to be microscopic to get the info on the screen in the way I like with regard to resembling the presentation of a book. The text is beautiful and legible but reading 6 pt or so all night is just ridiculous.

So I found a AT&T Samsung Galaxy S3 on CL for $350 in perfect condition, not stolen as verified by AT&T and I'm giving it a trial run.

I liked how BIG the screen was. The machine was SERIOUSLY fast. Some of the menus are buried, kind of like windows, but you can learn that stuff. Did I mention how THIN the thing is? I'm impressed.

Again I'm presuming the S3 based on what you are saying and all those things are very true. It also reminds about how Samsung copied Apple early and feels almost like a continuation of the 3GS design language. I still have a 3gs and every time I pick it up, it still feels better in my hand than my 4s. The S3 feels VERY good in the hand and the screen is just insane with regard to how nice it looks.

I expressed concern about iTunes music and a guy sitting next to us explained that you can get Google Play to sync with iTunes somehow in order to port your songs into the phone.

This is 100% and you can even pin the playlists within the app on the phone and it will download them and make them available for times when you don't have or want to use data. It is nice to have your entire music collection with you at all times via streaming. That said it is still a bit wonky. I find that my new music purchases and play lists have to be manually added lately which sort of sucks. I've been keeping at it with regard to Google Play Music because you can also access your library via the browser and that is very nice too. I can be at a friend's house and pull up a song I want him to hear from my library. It isn't done perfect yet but if it gets there it will be cloud computing done right.

Every phone has a certain "physics" to it and it would take me a bit to become accustomed to the larger screen territory... the longer scrolls and such.

I've got a few very large issues with Android right now. I can totally get used to the long scrolls, different physics, etc on the phone. Google made it so their phones going forward have a set of software buttons on the bottom of the screen. They are supposed to be available and viewable almost all the time. Because of this, developers tend to put their buttons for their apps on the top of the screen. With a phone this big, traveling from the bottom to the top is really annoying. Here is the example that drives me the most crazy. On email, all the iOS buttons for dealing with what you want to do with your email are on the bottom. It keeps everything I am doing on the bottom third of an already very reasonable size screen. On Android I load the email and all the buttons are on the top but the menu key and back key are on the bottom. I often have to do this. Open email. Hit button to show images because there is no way to make this behavior default. If I decide I want to keep the email travel down and hit the back button. If I want to delete it, I have to travel with my thumb all the way to the top right of the screen which is quite a distance. The default magnification on the emails is never full page either. I have to pinch in to make it fit. The excessive number of clicks and distance feels very "windows-ish" to me from back in the day. You can absolutely get what you need done, but it is less fun and more work.

Scates, you talk about being stuck in the Apple iOS, but these interfaces are moving into more things, things that are not phones. And after having fiddled with one I have to say that it's not beyond your ability to learn the Android interface. Am I ready to move away to Android now? I'm not sure. Time will tell....

Reading books, browsing the web and playing my $0.10 games are all a joy. Texting is tolerable, email is a slog, navigation is great, and the camera combined with dropbox auto-uploads is a lot of fun. The battery life is still worse. There's times it is indeed too big and of course it has no Jelly Bean 4.1 or 4.2 the same thing but not upgrade yet either and when it does get it, it will be because AT&T says it is okay and not Samsung.

One real issue with Android phones is no real means of backing all of what makes your phone your phone like you can with iTunes. It feels so good when I upgrade to back up, plug in, restore to the new phone and have my life back again. On Android it takes DAYS for most people to get their phone back to where they had it set up. There are launchers, keyboards, widgets, screens, folders, saved info on internal sd vs external sd, etc. It can be managed but again, it is like using registry cleaner on Windows 98 back in the day.

I'm really worried history is about to repeat itself. I can clearly flip this phone and go by an iPad mini if I feel the need but even if the devices are easier, I'm still charging and managing multiple devices which always bugs me. Either way it is getting very close and much like a one button vs two button mouse, one size probably won't fit all or enough people going forward.

[torifile]

You've identified several reasons that Apple won't "win" this war and probably doesn't care.

1) you can get the latest hotness on Android, without contract, for $350.
2) $.10 games.
3) you prefer the 3GS to the 4/4S design

There are lots of people who are cheap and without taste. Apple doesn't want that segment of the market. For that group, there's Android or whatever. Lots of people but not much profit.

How many times do we need to repeat this argument for it to stick? Apple makes money, everyone fights over the dregs. It's not complicated.

[drewprops]

Oh I don't think that we were talking about the winners of the war.

At least I wasn't

I'm interested in seeing another way of doing things.

Yes, to El Gallo's guess about me being on a 3Gs.

So I'm running old hardware, and am envious of a thinner, wider display.


and Apple is unlikely to change anything any time soon.

...

[El Gallo]

Originally Posted by torifile You've identified several reasons that Apple won't "win" this war and probably doesn't care.

It's important Apple do care. When their software got behind and Windows 95 showed up, they were almost ended as a company. Prior to that they had made loads of money for 14 consecutive years from the time it was created. The worst mistake possible is to believe it could never happen again. I don't note this because I want it to happen but because I would like them to avoid it happening.

1) you can get the latest hotness on Android, without contract, for $350.

This is true.

2) $.10 games.

No, this was a one time promotion.

3) you prefer the 3GS to the 4/4S design

So I'm supposed to suddenly loath a design because Apple goes in a different direction sometimes from year to year? Apple went to an aluminum back this year with glass inserts. Am I now supposed to hate the glass on the back of my 4s? The Nexus 4 now has what appears to be an entire back that is glass. If I like the feel of it because of what Apple did for two years am I now tasteless because it is only $350?

There are lots of people who are cheap and without taste. Apple doesn't want that segment of the market. For that group, there's Android or whatever. Lots of people but not much profit.

There are also plenty of people who understand that cost alone doesn't determine taste either. Finally there is paying more for taste and just paying more regardless of the taste. Apple does provide a better experience and I noted that. That experience is worth a certain amount for sure. I can tell you in my view it is about 25% maybe 30%.

How many times do we need to repeat this argument for it to stick? Apple makes money, everyone fights over the dregs. It's not complicated.

Price to earning ratios don't matter. It's the internet. Real estate never goes down. There's a reason fundamentals are called fundamentals. Apple has to execute on the software front to add that value and hence profit to their hardware. These things don't tend to just gradually stop. The often appear to quickly change and advantages can quickly become disadvantages.

[chucker]

The race to the pricing bottom cannot be won. It can be benefitted from due to commoditized complements (cf. Microsoft gaining as hardware makers crash and burn twenty years ago; Google is on a similar path now), but it'd be foolish for a hardware maker to try and compete with that.

[torifile]

Price to earning ratios don't matter. It's the internet. Real estate never goes down. There's a reason fundamentals are called fundamentals. Apple has to execute on the software front to add that value and hence profit to their hardware. These things don't tend to just gradually stop. The often appear to quickly change and advantages can quickly become disadvantages.

Whe you post stuff like this, you do your former name justice. Seriously, what does this nonsense even mean?

[El Gallo]

Originally Posted by torifile Whe you post stuff like this, you do your former name much good. Seriously, what does this nonsense even mean?

Those are the rationalizations for the last two bubbles. They were collective forms of delusion used to justify mass bad decision making.

Before the internet stock bubble crashed, there were plenty of people noting that many of these internet companies didn't seem to have a revenue stream. They didn't have a way to make sure they got paid. The answer to the naysayers was, "It doesn't matter, it's the internet." Certainly you remember your memes don't you?

The second and most recent bubble was the housing bubble. Naysayers like myself would note that people were paying prices for their houses that didn't match median income or their own income. The response was the rules don't matter because real estate always goes up. So when people were earning $50k and buying a half million dollar house on a zero down, negative amortization loan, with interest only payments for the first two years on a teaser rate, you could see the time bomb ticking. People swore there were no concerns though because the fundamentals didn't really apply, only they did.

Apple makes great phones and software. The market started off barely able to match their pricing because Apple was dealing in such huge volumes. They were and are shipping high quality products. Their software and ecosystem was in more countries, had a huge head start They had all the bases covered because they also had PMP's that would funnel the kids into iTunes and Apple products. Most of this is still true though to a lesser degree.

Now the market has matched Apple in quality in some instances and surpassed it in specs. We now spend time watching Apple catch up. Apple's software is now being rationalized for why it should continue to be used rather than being the standard bearer. The PMP segment isn't even competitive for them anymore because their products are coming in more expensive then actual cell phones. Also the kids watch YouTube. They stream Spotify. They appear less concerned about owning and hosting their media.

Again that doesn't mean Apple sucks, or dies or disappears or will blow up. It does mean though that we can't just say we don't need to look at the present because of the past. Apple wasn't selling their baseline newest iPod with a generation older processor for $300 a couple years ago. It featured the same processor back then as the iPhone 4 and started at $229. The one prior to it started at $200 and had the same processor as the 3GS. There's a trend there. We say maybe they can just deal with it in software and we seem maps, the podcasting app and the head of software fired.

These are real problems. Saying the past means we don't have to think about the present is like saying real estate always goes up. It's used to shut down critical thinking.

[torifile]

Umm. So you're rationalizing the argument that Apple should better compete on price by relating it to the Internet bubble days when profits didn't matter? That makes no sense at all. Apple continues to make a profit on each and every device sold and isn't going to go toe to toe on price and reduce margins to pennies on the dollar. They *could* have chosen to do so in the mini's price but they haven't. And they will make lots of money that way.

The Pyrrhic victory of winning market share at the expense of profits is not the Apple way. There's not a more fundamentally sound company than Apple right now. They make money the old fashioned way - make a product people like and sell it at a profit. (your logic is just odd, btw)

[El Gallo]

Originally Posted by torifile Umm. So you're rationalizing the argument that Apple should better compete on price by relating it to the Internet bubble days when profits didn't matter? That makes no sense at all. Apple continues to make a profit on each and every device sold and isn't going to go toe to toe on price and reduce margins to pennies on the dollar. They *could* have chosen to do so in the mini's price but they haven't. And they will make lots of money that way.

Not quite. The discussion is about a backup plan to leave iPhone for Android, so given some people are going to be touchy because it involves leaving Apple.

I discussed my thoughts on it and noted I was playing around with the same phone as drewprops. You were dismissive and stated.

There are lots of people who are cheap and without taste. Apple doesn't want that segment of the market. For that group, there's Android or whatever. Lots of people but not much profit.

How many times do we need to repeat this argument for it to stick? Apple makes money, everyone fights over the dregs. It's not complicated.

I simple noted it is more complicated than that. Apple gets a premium on their hardware with their software, ecosystem and design and lately aspects of those three have been falling down in certain ways. I then added two prior examples of success where people were dismissive, declared the rules don't really apply and were later proven wrong.

The Pyrrhic victory of winning market share at the expense of profits is not the Apple way. There's not a more fundamentally sound company than Apple right now. They make money the old fashioned way - make a product people like and sell it at a profit. (your logic is just odd, btw)

So see, here is YOUR example of the little mantras I mentioned early. It is marketshare doesn't matter. Only it really does matter. I said internet stocks and the people who owned them found out price to earnings ratios really do matter. People who took it on the chin in real estate found out that loans to income ratios really do matter.

You know what else really matters, marketshare. This article explains it better than I probably can and came out just yesterday. It is a good summary of how I feel as well in calling it a worrisome trend.

Marketshare does matter and it will begin to really matter as other competitors fall by the wayside. When everyone is making $650 smartphones because Blackberry needs this, Android needs this, Apple needs this and Nokia needs this then if Apple is at 25% marketshare, that is just fine because no one has large enough to drive the numbers of for cost dramatically in their own direction.

However what we are seeing is Blackberry and Nokia/Windows phone fall by the wayside and largely fail to get traction. Android is now at 75% and Apple at 25% and we are seeing $350-500 phones from Android while Apple is still $650-850. Run this trend down the road and you see Android at 90% selling $200 phones and Apple at 10% and phones for $650-850.

Marketshare matters. Majority marketshare not so much perhaps but having enough marketshare to for developers to know they will get a return really matters. Apple still has that for now but the trend is worrisome.

[wtd]

10% marketshare won't be a problem for 3rd party developers if it's the only profitable 10%.