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Apple introduces Boot Camp (Boot Windows XP on Mac)!


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Apple introduces Boot Camp (Boot Windows XP on Mac)!
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Mr Beardsley
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2006-04-05, 12:48

I don't think this will impact Mac developers game or otherwise in anything but a positive way for the following reasons:

1. There are still millions of PowerPC Mac users out there as potential customers
2. Expecting people to shell out an aditional $199 (XP home retail price) or $299 (XP pro retail price) to run your $49 app is absurd.
3. Adobe and Microsoft are already making good money on their Mac products. I don't think they would kill development on their Mac products. If they did, they would get an earfull from the folks in points 1 and 2.
4. If this move increases the make marketshare that means more people with the ability to run OS X and more potential customers of OS X software. Would you rather run Delicious Library on OS X, or some alternative that isn't nearly as cool on windows?

I see this as a great move to remove any of the remaining excuses switchers may have. As others have said, switchers may have been wanting to give OS X a whirl, but they either had Windows only apps or they weren't certain about the move. Now they have the safety net of keeping all their apps. w00t!

"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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Chinney
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2006-04-05, 12:51

I have not decided whether I like this or not. On balance, probably not. I have no desire to run Windows, nor do I have any absolute need to do so. So this does not lead to any particular advantage for me. What it does do, however, is to put at risk at least some future software development for the Mac – software which I might just want and which might just never be developed for OS X – eventually forcing me to run Windows, even though I would prefer not.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Wickers
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-04-05, 12:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmexico
Anyone have a theory as to how a windows virus would effect the mac operating system on the same machine?
Unless Apple includes a HFS+ driver for Windows with that driver CD... Any virus won't even know it's there.
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Chinney
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2006-04-05, 12:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley
I don't think this will impact Mac developers game or otherwise in anything but a positive way for the following reasons:

[...]
I had not seen Mr. B.’s post before I posted mine. Good arguments. Somewhat reassures me. Not compeletely, but somewhat.
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Wickers
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2006-04-05, 12:53

But... but... what about Linux?

Whoever is able to give this a shot, look into if the tool can be used to install Linux too. Please!?!

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bassplayinMacFiend
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2006-04-05, 12:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709
Well of course. But I'd consider that a purchase (even if it was previous to this announcement).
Well, don't discount the price of software purchases as well. Being able to run Windows allows a user to crossgrade their software over time, as opposed to switching from Windows to Mac (cost $$$), then having to shell out hundreds or even thousands to crossgrade or even buy different OS X software.

Many of the stumbling blocks to Mac ownership have just been removed by this announcement, IMO.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2006-04-05, 12:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickers
But... but... what about Linux?

Whoever is able to give this a shot, look into if the tool can be used to install Linux too. Please!?!

The CD provided by BootCamp contains Windows drivers. So Linux users are still out in the cold as far as drivers go.
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Wickers
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2006-04-05, 12:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend
The CD provided by BootCamp contains Windows drivers. So Linux users are still out in the cold as far as drivers go.
But it's possible to install Linux with BootCamp?

As for the drivers, the community will find a way.
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torifile
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2006-04-05, 13:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickers
But it's possible to install Linux with BootCamp?

As for the drivers, the community will find a way.
I'm sure it would be. I'd try it but I don't want to install linux and then have to go back and install Windows again. I'll try to BOOT a linux installation CD and see if that works. Any particular distro you want me to try?
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tacvbo83
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-04-05, 13:05

A lot of you seem to think that Apple cares about you the customer. Get real people! They are just like any other corporation trying to become monopolistic in some ways. That is the plan. Get as rich as possible....WOOOOOPEEEEEE.....sad indeed
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Wickers
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2006-04-05, 13:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile
I'm sure it would be. I'd try it but I don't want to install linux and then have to go back and install Windows again. I'll try to BOOT a linux installation CD and see if that works. Any particular distro you want me to try?
Anything with a 2.6 series kernel. This would be a great tool for people who are devoted to distros that currently don't work with EFI. Hell, even if you are a gentoo user (one of the first out with EFI booting) you still aren't in for a comfortable ride to get it all working.

In addition, Linux can access HFS+, so file transfers between systems would be a snap.

And thanks!

no sig, how's that for being a rebel!
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Wrao
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2006-04-05, 13:16

I just want windows to play games. Which I think is pretty funny. This is neat though, it will certainly help apple.
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Ominx
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2006-04-05, 13:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney
What it does do, however, is to put at risk at least some future software development for the Mac – software which I might just want and which might just never be developed for OS X – eventually forcing me to run Windows, even though I would prefer not.
This anouncement doesn't directly benefit me at the moment either. I have a Mac for OS X and have no need to run current Windows applications. My worry is exactly what Chinney states above...that even though Mac users currently have no need to run Windows, at some point we may be forced to.
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Kusakun
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
 
2006-04-05, 13:19

Well. I bought a G5 last february so I guess I will try it out by the time I buy the POWER MAC INTEL based chip. The other thing I hope apple makes is the possibility to put the VIDEO CARD you want to your machine without paying large ammounts of money in a BTO one or later on as a part
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originalpckelly
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-04-05, 13:21

Business is inherently risky. Apple has been an innovator because it takes risks. The worst thing, in my mind, that could happen to Apple is that Mac OS X dies and they only sell slick Windows PCs. We have to remember that is the worst thing. Not complete annihilation, but a turn to the dark side of the force.

Remember five years ago?
The iPod wasn't even out yet, it came out in October 2001. Things can change in a short amount of time, and we are talking about computers too, one of the most dynamic industries. We could really see Apple be in first place with new computer sales in five years. I think Vista is going to flop because of the high hardware requirements, and the fact that if their computer doesn't meet them, users won't see much difference from XP. I think this is great for Mac.

What I do worry about:
I remember in 95 how OS/2 came out before Windows 95, touting it's ease of use and compatibility with the old Win 3.1. It eventually flopped. It might be possible Apple could fall in that way.

The Major Differences Between OS/2 and OS X:
Apple already has a stable footing to gain ground from. OS/2 was never very popular. Most Mac users could never imagine using a PC with Windows. Apple has managed to streamline itself that past few years, so that it's niche can sustain it. Plus it has iPod sales (if it doesn't have to spin them off with iTunes, darn Apple Records.) Apple is in a great place. I doubt few people who switch to a Mac Mini Intel will ever pay for Windows. They have the option, and that puts their mind at ease. There will be some professionals who switch and may have to use Windows alongside Mac, but eventually they will see the wonders of Mac OS X and start transferring their software over to Mac OS X. This transition, while at first difficult, will eventually be excellent for developers who will be able to buy one computer, buy Windows and test software on two platforms easily.

Everything is about psychology and people just want to know they can use Windows if they have to, Boot Camp will do that. Windows Vista will blow so bad that Microsoft will loose market share. Instead of switching to Linux or similar operating system (I personally like FreeBSD better than Linux) they will switch to Mac OS X. They will have a computer to match their iPods. All we can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst. (I have my fingers crossed this risk will pay off.)
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torifile
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2006-04-05, 13:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickers
Anything with a 2.6 series kernel. This would be a great tool for people who are devoted to distros that currently don't work with EFI. Hell, even if you are a gentoo user (one of the first out with EFI booting) you still aren't in for a comfortable ride to get it all working.

In addition, Linux can access HFS+, so file transfers between systems would be a snap.

And thanks!
I had a quick look at distro watch and it looks like ubuntu 5.10 uses the 2.6 kernel. I'm downloading now.
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Dorian Gray
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2006-04-05, 13:22

DELL falling, AAPL going through the roof (nearly 10% today!). It's obvious what the markets think. For once I agree with them too. For the reasons mentioned in this thread (particularly the high cost of Windows which will mean very few Mac users, as a percentage, will ever install Windows), this will have minimal effect on development for OS X. Games may be affected, but even in that niche OS X development won't stop. Besides, many Windows users will buy a Mac knowing they can continue to run Windows, and will then dip their toes in OS X and find it just right. These people will then in the future wish to buy OS X apps.

Mac sales to businesses and computer enthusiasts will increase. I doubt market share will reach 10% on the basis of this, but it will certainly help Apple shift new Macs.
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Wrao
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2006-04-05, 13:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by neumac
My gut reaction is that this is a big gamble on Apple's part. It may greatly reduce the pressure on developers to create Mac software. As people have noted, why would Adobe spend the resources to develop universal binary versions of its apps; users can just boot in Windows. As good as Mac OS X has become, without third-party software it is of limited utility. Apple may be banking on its own software suite to carry the day, but I think that there is a great deal of uncertainty about which way this will go in the long run.

Well, that's then stepping the overhead for the user out of the developers hands, it's them saying "hey, buy our $500 software AND a $200 operating system", which, I don't know if any developers have done similar things in the past off hand, but that seems like a very bad business move. They can't just assume everyone is going to be running windows and Mac OS X, personally, I don't see the point at all outside of running games. I would reckon most mac users will run windows on a dual boot and either never use it or forget they did it.
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tannenhauser
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2006-04-05, 13:25

i have an old (well, like 2 year old dell... i mean it already looked old when i bought it) which runs windows xp. can i use the windows install disc it came with and install xp on my intel imac to see how things work with this boot camp? or do i have to go out to the store and spend more money on windows (eww).
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tacvbo83
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-04-05, 13:28

Now this has me thinking if I should install it on my 1.83 GHz, 100 GB 7200 RPM (currently 50 GB because of the crap it comes with and 4 Jam Packs), 2.0 GB RAM. Then this says 10 gigs needed right? Damn, I will probably not have space for anything else. What things can I unistall that are mostly not needed?

THE END IS NEAR...AAAAHH

hahah....just kidding


I will probably get the 10 dollar xp install disc from my university bookstore and try it anyways...it can always be uninstalled right?

Last edited by tacvbo83 : 2006-04-05 at 13:38.
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torifile
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2006-04-05, 13:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by tannenhauser
i have an old (well, like 2 year old dell... i mean it already looked old when i bought it) which runs windows xp. can i use the windows install disc it came with and install xp on my intel imac to see how things work with this boot camp? or do i have to go out to the store and spend more money on windows (eww).
You have to have a full XP installation disc. OEM discs won't work.
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Wickers
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2006-04-05, 13:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray
DELL falling, AAPL going through the roof (nearly 10% today!).
Get ready for adjustment. Be pleased if you are a day trader... other then that...
  quote
709
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Join Date: May 2004
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2006-04-05, 13:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend
Well, don't discount the price of software purchases as well. Being able to run Windows allows a user to crossgrade their software over time, as opposed to switching from Windows to Mac (cost $$$), then having to shell out hundreds or even thousands to crossgrade or even buy different OS X software.

Many of the stumbling blocks to Mac ownership have just been removed by this announcement, IMO.
I totally agree.
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Mac Donald
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-04-05, 13:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend
I would hope Apple laid out there BootCamp plans to the MS MacBU before they released the "We're continuing OS X Office development" statement.
I think this may be correct. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jobs or another high-level Apple executive didn't talk with Gates or Ballmer personally about this in advance. Jobs has a fairly good relationship with Gates apparently.

Someone hacked my signature. I demand an investigation.
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torifile
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2006-04-05, 13:40

Looks like it performs well, graphically speaking. Once I get it installed, I'm gonna try out a few demos and see how they run. I'll also try WCIII (the only recent hybrid game I've got). Maybe I'll swing by the ebgames on the way home and pick up a used game and see how that works.
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Bill M
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-04-05, 13:45

I just had a chat with my bro who is a die hard PeeCee fan. He said he would finally consider purchasing a Mac, if BootCamp is for real. He seems to be fed up (to some extent) with MS, so he doesn't really plan on upgrading to Vista, but he won't (yet) switch 100% to Linux or Mac OS X either. I don't think my bro is alone, there will be quite a few PC users who will see BootCamp as great reason to get an intel Mac whenever they need to buy another computer.

During our discussion, one thing came up which I don't have a good answer for. BootCamp allows the user to select which OS to boot from. Cool. Could it be at all possible for an intel Mac w/Leopard or whatever in the future, to boot *both* Mac OS X and Windows XP and switch between them live? Maybe freezing / saving the OS state in the background?
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intlplby
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2006-04-05, 13:48

what if they did this to increase market share dramatically and then discontinued it on future macs.........

i.e. everyone that buys a windows capable mac can keep using it.... the market share blows up and then apple discontinues boot camp on future apples (but doesn't stop the current ones)

then all of a sudden you have a large enough market share to support more development

just because they give it to use now, doesn't mean they can't discontinue it in the future once they've milked the market for people who need both.


----

does boot camp support firewire booting of windows?

i don't want to put it on my internal partition
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2006-04-05, 13:55

Apple said BootCamp would be integrated in Leopard. It's not going anywhere for at least one major OS release.
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ghoti
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-04-05, 13:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M
During our discussion, one thing came up which I don't have a good answer for. BootCamp allows the user to select which OS to boot from. Cool. Could it be at all possible for an intel Mac w/Leopard or whatever in the future, to boot *both* Mac OS X and Windows XP and switch between them live? Maybe freezing / saving the OS state in the background?
People keep talking about this, but this isn't easy at all. The operating system sits directly on the hardware, so you can't just "freeze" it. What would have to be done is run Windows in a virtual machine, which has some implications on memory usage and performance. If done right, it can be very fast. This could be where OS X is going, especially with more sophisticated hardware partitioning becoming available in upcoming Intel processors. That might even remove the speed penalty almost completely.
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alcimedes
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2006-04-05, 14:00

All I know is at the end of the day there are a shit ton of people who want a Mac, but who play a lot of computer games. This basically removes any and all reason not to get a Mac.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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