[Brad]

Ars just published an article about a new Mac-only program called Delicious Library.

from http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/...us-library.ars

And yet, if you travel in Mac enthusiast circles on the net, you've probably already heard of Delicious Library. Even if you're not a Mac user, perhaps a Mac-using friend insisted on showing you some screenshots. Delicious Library is an application with some buzz. This phenomenon is quintessentially "Macintosh", as is Delicious Library itself, from its purpose, concept, and design, to the people that make it and every last pixel and line of code it contains. If you're reading this on a PC that you built yourself from carefully selected parts for about the price of a low-end iMac, I hope this review will help you to begin to understand what's so special about the Mac, Mac software, and the Mac community. If you're already one of the faithful, sit back and relax as we examine the latest software offering from some old friends.

Spot-on. If you question the quality of Mac software and the care developers take to achieve perfection, I strongly urge you to read that article. This is what being a Mac user is all about. Attention to detail.

[kscherer]

The fact that Messiah's last post is LOOOOOONG is expected. The fact that he STILL only has two posts is kinda creepy! You got a hot date going or something?

Your long post is a nice bio on Jobs, but does little to convey the reasons why so many of us Mac nuts remain so loyal to Apple. Although Steve Jobs has a great history with Apple, Pixar and NeXT, one thing you fail to mention is the pure loyalty he brings to the company, not just from employees but also from customers.

Barto makes a great point with the '90s. Although Apple lost market share and became a name synonymous with "failure", Apple junkies remained loyal to the company and continued to buy the crap they were selling. And even though OS 7-9 were unreliable and ancient, they were still far easier to use and more stable than Win 3.1 or 95 or 98, etc.

People use Macs because they either always have, or because they get sick of the Windoze frustration and finally try "thinking different". Most of us fit into the "always have" category. Those of you who are switchers come to realize that the Mac doesn't get in your way, constantly interrupting you with little do-this, do-that pop-ups from the task bar. Mac's are not always informing you that you need to contact Micro$oft or the Virus company or anyone else for that matter. Macs LOOK better and ACT better and FEEL better.

By the way, if you're doing research to figure out why we like Macs, perhaps you should go around and interview a bunch of people who just dug through their couch to scrape together enough nickles to buy one of those Wal-Mart cheapo PCs. Ask them why they bought a rock-bottom PC and ask them how their experience has been. Ask them to show you how to navigate the Windows file structure, how to burn a CD, how to copy and paste, how to make a music CD or a home video or burn a DVD. Ask them to make you some crap-sounding homemade music or search their digital photo collection and tie them into a slide show with music. Then, go find someone who is using their very fist Mac and ask them to perform the very same tasks.

Then, my friend, you will have the answer you are really looking for.

[julesstoop]

Originally Posted by Barto Are you that sure? I remember during the mid 90's when Apple put out lemon after lemon and people still bought them... "keep the faith" and all that. It is like a faith during rough times.

Well, the same counts for Microsoft at the moment (though they do not build computers). Computers based on their OS generally cost a lot of money in terms of maintenance, yet most bussinesses and home users stick with them.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by julesstoop Well, the same counts for Microsoft at the moment (though they do not build computers). Computers based on their OS generally cost a lot of money in terms of maintenance, yet most bussinesses and home users stick with them.

There are three reasons for this silliness:

1) They have been brain-washed into believing that PCs are better;

2) They have invested millions of dollars into third party software that only runs on PCs. Replacing that software with Mac versions would ruin their IT budgets. Although many of those companies are learning that the cost of new Apple hardware AND software is cheaper than the annual maintenance costs of PC-based networks.

3) Their IT folks decide what hardware to buy and they only know Windose.

[BarracksSi]

Originally Posted by kscherer 3) Their IT folks decide what hardware to buy and they only know Windose.

And why do they do that? Job security, of course.

I know a guy on a car forum who works at an IT company, and one of their major clients decided to leave Macintosh support off of their new contract.

Why? Well, here's what he said about it --

I have clients that have both macs and pcs in their offices. When their service contract renewal came up this year - to save money they decided to drop support for the macs since they never seemed to break. Not that their wasn't issues - but just never anything the user couldn't handle themselves. Two years we were contracted to support them and only one mac claim versus over 300 pc work orders filed. This is only for problems that required us. If we looked at a system and it was as simple as clicking a button on the spot it didn't get a job ticket. Their setup was roughly 60/40 with pc's/mac's.

[UnixMac]

PC = Jobs for IT

MAC = less jobs

[psmith2.0]

I'm not a techie type by any stretch (I've never launched Terminal and probably never will, don't code/program, don't hotrod hardware, don't know all the inner workings of things, not a networking guru, etc.), but in almost 12 years of using a Mac, I've never encountered a problem or situation that I couldn't fix or figure out myself, or, worst case scenario, hop onto a message board and get a simple, straightforward answer from a buddy fairly quickly. And since OS X has hit its stride (since fall of 2002, with Jaguar), it's even better! But I've never had to call Apple tech support or endure any true, serious down-time due to complex, over-my-head issue.

Things just seem to work, with a minimum of hassle and coaxing.

I'm guessing that's the result of the "whole widget" approach of Apple, being that they make the hardware, much of the software I truly use day-to-day (Safari, Mail, iTunes, iChat, iCal, iSync, iPhoto, Sherlock, TextEdit and Preview...plus all the .Mac features) and the amazing OS that runs it all. I like that. That's something others don't/can't do.

[Luca]

Absolutely. I had a lot of problems setting up my PC a couple weeks ago because Windows refused to boot from my Serial ATA drive. It took literally DAYS of digging around the internet to find the answer - for some reason I had to enable my motherboard's SATA RAID feature, even though it was only for a single drive. I tried everything else that people suggested to no avail, but only that worked.

See, my procedure for installing a new SATA drive on a Mac would be to open the computer, take the old one out, and put the new one in. Windows has to support such a large variety of motherboards, onboard devices, and peripherals that it becomes impossible to achieve a completely equivalent experience across the board. The installation procedure was different with my PC than it would have been had I used a regular ATA drive, or a motherboard with a different company's SATA controller.

So basically you're trading expandability and customization in a PC for a tight, refined, homogeneous experience on a Mac. This is why I say that for 90% of people, a Mac would be best. Then you can take the 10% (or less) who are major techies and they can use PCs. The reason I even use a PC is for the customization. It's so nice. Want a video card for under $100? You have eighty gazillion to choose from. Want a TV tuner card? $50. Surround sound? It's built into many motherboards, and there are plenty of third-party sound cards to handle it as well, vs. one third party solution (albeit a good one) on the Mac. Running a bit loud? Replace the standard-issue fan with a quieter one.

[kscherer]

Yeah, and you can put groovy neon lights in there, too! Whooppee!

I am similar to P2.0 on this one (uh-oh!) I am not a "power user" by any means and, yet, in 25 years of using Apple Computers, I have called tech support three times. Once when I forgot my password (Performa 6300), once when I installed a firmware update and got a sad mac (iMac 350) and once when my internet access kept bombing (iMac G4). Turns out the password issue was MY fault; iMac 350 was a third party RAM issue; iMac G4 was a bad modem.

On the other side of that, my PC using in-laws and family seem to call twice a month with serious "can't figure this PC out" stuff. Only my eccentric mother-in-law calls regarding her Mac and that is usually because she doesn't quite know what to do with all of the virus alert e-mails she keeps getting. I simply explain to her that they are intended for PCs and she answers "oh, that's what I thought. Just wanted to be sure."

[ast3r3x]

Originally Posted by kscherer ..."oh, that's what I thought. Just wanted to be sure."

Sounds like my dad and emails he gets. He is always having me come look at them to see if I should know that or not.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm not a techie type by any stretch (I've never launched Terminal and probably never will, don't code/program, don't hotrod hardware, don't know all the inner workings of things, not a networking guru, etc.), but in almost 12 years of using a Mac, I've never encountered a problem or situation that I couldn't fix or figure out myself, or, worst case scenario, hop onto a message board and get a simple, straightforward answer from a buddy fairly quickly. And since OS X has hit its stride (since fall of 2002, with Jaguar), it's even better! But I've never had to call Apple tech support or endure any true, serious down-time due to complex, over-my-head issue. Things just seem to work, with a minimum of hassle and coaxing. I'm guessing that's the result of the "whole widget" approach of Apple, being that they make the hardware, much of the software I truly use day-to-day (Safari, Mail, iTunes, iChat, iCal, iSync, iPhoto, Sherlock, TextEdit and Preview...plus all the .Mac features) and the amazing OS that runs it all. I like that. That's something others don't/can't do.

That more or less describes my experience back with Apple (since 2001 - I was a early Apple user in the 80s before being forced, by circumstances, into the PC world for many years). Ease of use and ease of maintenance were the reasons that I bought a Mac, and it has not let me down in these regards. I had AppleCare, but I barely used it for support...and did not use it at all after the first year. And I did not use it for repairs either...the only thing that went wrong was a mouse that stopped working after the kids had dropped it about 100 times. Apple replaced it within a few days just the same.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm not a techie type by any stretch (I've never launched Terminal and probably never will, don't code/program, don't hotrod hardware, don't know all the inner workings of things, not a networking guru, etc.), but in almost 12 years of using a Mac, I've never encountered a problem or situation that I couldn't fix or figure out myself, or, worst case scenario, hop onto a message board and get a simple, straightforward answer from a buddy fairly quickly. And since OS X has hit its stride (since fall of 2002, with Jaguar), it's even better! But I've never had to call Apple tech support or endure any true, serious down-time due to complex, over-my-head issue. Things just seem to work, with a minimum of hassle and coaxing. I'm guessing that's the result of the "whole widget" approach of Apple, being that they make the hardware, much of the software I truly use day-to-day (Safari, Mail, iTunes, iChat, iCal, iSync, iPhoto, Sherlock, TextEdit and Preview...plus all the .Mac features) and the amazing OS that runs it all. I like that. That's something others don't/can't do.

This eloquently sums up my feelings and experiences with Apple stuff since 1999. Nice post!

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by Jules26 O.K. I'm doing some research for a marketing project on Apple users and their love of and devotion to everything Apple. So spare a few minutes- tell me what it is about Apple that's so special- enlighten me!!

Operating system is more stable and better designed and the hardware is more reliable. I've had a Windows XP machine, so I have something to compare it too. The hardware was nice, but little things XP would do just drove me up a wall.

[spiff]

I suppose I could make a big rant about why I use macs instead of PCs but it would all be stuff you've already heard.

To put it as simply as possible, macs are fun to use, PCs are not. I can use my PC to do just about all the same stuff I can with my mac, but Windows is ugly. I don't just mean ugly looking, though it is, it's got an ugly feel to it. It just doesn't work right.

I'm the sort of person who actually takes pleasure from the simple act of using a computer. I mean using a mac, that is. I don't take that pleasure from using a PC and that's my point. Using a PC is like going to work, using a mac is like having sex or something. OK, bad analogy, but you get the idea.

[porter]

1) stable, stable OS- I hardly shutdown the computer, I can put the mofo sleep instead of shutting it down for weeks. With a PC, it would act up after the 4th or 5th day. Out of 3 years of owning a G3 iMac and a G5, I have never had to restart the Mac because of OS X acting up. The only two problems I had were with my G3 iMac- 1) the computer shut down without warning (due to the power cable not being fully fitted in) and 2) after clicking on "shutdown" it didn't shutdown so I had to manually turn it off. That's it.

2) less of a target with viruses

3) design, I like having something cool and trendy on my desk

4) mac community- cool people to talk to. I went to the MacWorld thing in NYC, very cool. Watching Jobs talk in person was cool.

5) I just like using something different.

[SilentEchoes]

For me, Its when I come across something on my computer, that I only have to do once in my entire time of owning a computer, and some how it works flawlessly. Some how Apple thought about the one problem that 20 people are going to have and fixed it.

Apples level of perfection in everything is unmatched, At-least in my eyes.

And yes, RDF has a large hand in it.

[ast3r3x]

Apple puts a little more thought into their stuff. It's not just adding a feature, but normally trying to implement it well.

While they are far from perfect, I haven't found anything closer.

[Koodari]

Originally Posted by UnixMac PC = Jobs for IT MAC = less jobs

Probably true (I'm not an admin), but if you look at the basic economics of the situation, this has nothing to do with why Macs are not adopted to use in companies. Simplified numbers in this example: assume 25% of admins know Macs. Assume Macs are only 25% the maintenance trouble of Windows PC's. That 25% of admins would gladly do an immediate and total switch to Macs, get the rest of the admins kicked out, double their pay overnight. The higher ups would go along because they would save half of the IT budget. In fact, no way they wouldn't do this. Real numbers are less impressive, but the fact remains that skilled people will outcompete unskilled ones. When you overcome the inertia, the unskilled people who would be more interested in 'securing jobs' don't have a say in decisions.

The way I see it, the core of the problem is that most of the existing IT admins know only Windows and that inertia makes it very hard for the company to switch, no matter what the efficiency of Apple's solution. There is also great inertia in custom and out-of-the-box OS limited apps.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I've spoken with people in our IT department, and they all agree that MS keeps them employed. They're scared of the day computers as reliable as Apple's become the norm. They know many of them would be shown the door.

[drewprops]

ditto ditto ditto ditto

Now you guys, the poster who started this thread had one post and hasn't replied to anything posted here...... think about it~

(leaves whistling the Troll Song)

[BarracksSi]

Originally Posted by drewprops ditto ditto ditto ditto Now you guys, the poster who started this thread had one post and hasn't replied to anything posted here...... think about it~ (leaves whistling the Troll Song)

Hehehe... I was starting to think the same thing. If that person was trolling for trouble, I don't think he found it anyway.

But, what the heck, I'll give another story --

We've been having a school for the corporals, and today was their day to give presentations. Some were using Powerpoint through a Sony projector. I got a call from one of my junior Marines, saying that she couldn't get her Dell laptop to work with the projector.

Okay, well, I go over there, and they changed the order so that she could get it straightened out. They were using another person's laptop for the presentation at the moment, so since it worked, she burned hers to CD to transfer it (would've been easier to use a flash drive, but oh well).

When it was her turn, she opened the presentation on the working computer, and it appeared to work -- except that, instead of a green background, it was now BLUE.

That's just stupid. Why couldn't 1) the Dell have worked in the first damn place, and 2) the other computer could use the right colors?



I've used my iBook for Powerpoint (both through Powerpoint and Keynote) and video files, and I haven't had a problem like that. The shit just works.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by drewprops Now you guys, the poster who started this thread had one post and hasn't replied to anything posted here...... think about it

Not only that...

First post's timestamp: 2004-11-09, 09:33

Originally Posted by Jules26's profile Last Activity: 2004-11-09 09:36

Kids these days.

[Chinney]

Interesting. But the thread starters intention in starting this is now somewhat irrelevant to the discussion that has taken place. 'Even trolls have their rolls'.

[BarracksSi]

Of course, the person could still be reading every reply that gets forwarded (although that won't include every post in the thread).

From the "You can do that?? Cool!" Department:

I saw a thing over on macosxhints.com saying how you can command-drag a file from a drawer in Preview and drop it into the Trash, on another application, or whatever.

Now, I would have never thought of doing that, but dang, it works! I just now opened a specific page from a PDF document in Photoshop Elements.

Do Windows users ever try things like this?

[nomorewindows]

Simple, grasshopper. Apple does everything my PC did, just better, faster, easier. And my new PowerBook looks so cool!

[ZogDog]

Just read your bio/post on Steve Jobs, Messiahtosh, and I have to admit, I was already converted to the mac when and before I bought mine, but that just blew me away. Thank you for that.

[Zodiac]

Originally Posted by Jules26 O.K. I'm doing some research for a marketing project on Apple users and their love of and devotion to everything Apple. So spare a few minutes- tell me what it is about Apple that's so special- enlighten me!!

It's because Apple is a very sweet company with sweet products!

When you have something really awesome you pretty much get the urge to know everything about it! You know what I mean?

[Kyle.esq]

As I posted yesturday in the general discussions,

I don't even have it yet but I know a little about the new OS Panther and Tiger through some research done at www.apple.com and through keynotes (all of them). And to the members of this forum who got me into this (@ my first two threads) Hey, you know what I just realized. The "@" button has a similar symbol to the Macs. YOU SEE THE MACS ARE TAKING OVER!!! Mwahaha!

First and for most the appearance got me hook. Honestly. When I saw the iBook - my reaction was Whoa!. Then I began reading up on it; tech specs, etc. Then I saw the PowerBook...then shortly after the iMac (the ipod based computer)...and you get the idea. Same goes for the OS. #1 I am tired of Windows. Its boring and annoying!! It freezes - resulting in a loss of my active files (hws..) and its just annoying; having to reboot the PC and re-open the windows, files and internet browers to the page you were viewing; and program constanly Doesn't respond. I do not blame them...the PCs must be a dreadful place to be in.

Then I introduced myself to OS X. Its graphics and design looks amazing! It caught my attention, just like seeing a hot chick down the street. If she wasn't attrative - you wouldn't initate a convo same here with this OS. I looked into it, read about out, etc. The features, its layout (new and interesting) and so much more...it all enchances your computer experience. Especially spotlight and other apps which help in organization (such as the diff color folders). This way you know what you have on your comp and keep it organized. I was never this enthusiastic about a computer before. It is down to earth and simply cool. It looks nice, the programs are nice and are useful. You can use your computer..to the "fullest" (as my friend puts it) even if you are not "computer smart." It is for EVERYONE. I read articles that children even operated this computer; at ages of up to 4 years old! I recall, when i was in 5th grade...a computer was so foreign...like learning medical terminology in janpenese... It scared me. I remembered when I played my first video game in 6th grade...I thought the fog of war was some glitch; haha i was so computer illiterate...I still am - ah, *reminisces* some things never change :P

In Sum, first came physical attraction; then came to the technical attration. Just like a relationship. When I met my girlfriend, the first thing which triggered the events (the approach etc) was the physical attraction (she is hoOoTt ) and when I got to know her (just like when I got to know the Mac - technically speaking) - her personality (etc) I love her!

A mac is like a relationship! Hence the name, "iMac" (You and the Mac :P)

[Kyle.esq]

Originally Posted by nomorewindows Simple, grasshopper. Apple does everything my PC did, just better, faster, easier. And my new PowerBook looks so cool!

Which PB do you have? (12'', 15'' or 17''); just curious.

[Franz Josef]

A mac is like a relationship! Hence the name, "iMac" (You and the Mac :P)[/quote]

That's the beauty of it, Kyle.esq, it's a relationship - a natural interaction of man and technology. And the Redmond guys just don't get it.