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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-03, 15:20

Saw this at MacRumors...

Apple's New Standalone Monitor Could Be Around Half the Price of the Pro Display XDR

...which is still about 3x higher than such a thing should be (assuming everyone's all on the same page regarding the definition of "consumer").

From the first paragraph:

Quote:
Apple's rumored new consumer-oriented standalone monitor could appear this year and come in at around the $2,500 price mark, based on comments made by Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.


Seems a little high for the stated target audience. What "consumer" is going to shell out twice for a monitor than they paid for the Mac to connect it to?

How hard is it for them to just take the 24" iMac design (roomy screen, minimal bezel, etc.), remove all the stuff that makes it a Mac - M1 guts, communications/wifi stuff, headphone jack, ports, webcam(?), etc. - and make that a nice, sub-$1,000 "consumer" display for folks to connect their Mac mini, MacBooks, etc. to? Leave all the other display-related specs (resolution, brightness, etc.) the same as the iMac. If it's good enough for a $1,299-1,699 iMac...

I don't mind the existence of that rumored $2,500 model, but that would be more of a "less-demanding, on-a-budget pro" option, not consumers (my mom, uncle and everyone else I know who don't use their Mac to earn a paycheck) with a $699-1,299 Mac. I hope there's more to this that this Gurman guy left out or isn't aware of. If $2,500 is the cheapest standalone display Apple can bring themselves to offer - which is about 3x higher than ones they've sold in the past - why even bother?

If they did the above (de-Mac'd a 24" iMac) wouldn't that result in a $799-899 display, even factoring in that arbitrary $100-200 "just because" iTax?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2022-01-03, 15:35

I really don't understand the rumor, nor would I understand Apple shooting at that price point. I mean, the 24" 4.5K display in the 24" iMac can be had for $1299, and that includes a computer.

So, I don't buy this a bit. Apple can clearly make a 24" display that would retail for less than $1000. If they don't, they're fools. If they make it and charge $2500, then we won't even stock the stupid things.

What the market needs is a $750 24" 4K TB3 display with charging. Everyone else can do it.

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  quote
709
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2022-01-03, 15:44

I wonder if it'll come with a stand, or if that's an extra $500 (only half the price of the XDR stand! ).
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chucker
 
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2022-01-03, 15:48

I’ve written plenty on this and it makes me too angry to comment here right now. I really hope this rumor is incorrect or incomplete.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-03, 16:19

It seems I'm not alone in my confusion and "WTF?!"-ification. That's encouraging...it's not just me, then.

Yeah, something's off here. Either this is some mid-range "Pro Junior" type of offering for the 14" and 16" (and new Mac Pro and rumored "Mac mini Pro") crowd, and/or the writer doesn't have any info/leaks re: a true "consumer-oriented" sub-$1,000 display.

Nobody I know with a mini or MacBook Air (or 13" MacBook Pro, Intel or M1) is looking to drop $2,500 on a damn monitor, I don't care whose logo is on it.

@709

This is a weirdo rumor. If the phrase "consumer-oriented" hadn't been included in the article, I never would've blinked. I would've just thought "oh, cool...a less-expensive option for some pros and that "advanced hobbyist" market...right on, they're offering those folks something besides that $5,000+ craziness".

But, yeah...$2,500 displays aren't "consumer" territory, in any solar system. Get it down to three digits and we'll talk. As Ken says, they make an entire 24" system, with a computer included, for $1,299. So I refuse to believe they can't make a really nice 24" standalone display for well under $1,000 for actual consumer-level users.

Something about this story/leak is all screwed up, or missing significant chunks.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2022-01-03 at 16:38.
  quote
PB PM
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2022-01-03, 16:39

$2500 seems a little nutty, what is the stand made out of, gold? Is that for the screen or the stand?
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-03, 16:51

It's for the monitor wheels. Come on, are you even paying attention?



...
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2022-01-03, 17:02

Funny that Apple has gotten itself to the point where a bunch of die-hards are sitting around teasing the company because they can't make a pro desktop setup that costs less than $12,000, and now we're giggling about their perceived inability to make a stupid consumer display for less than the cost of an entire iMac.

How did they get to the point where their two best computers are $999 and $1299, and a frickin' consumer *monitor* might cost as much as their top-of-the-line pro laptop?

Something is amiss. Either Paul has it right and the rumor is boogered up, or Apple has lost their display scruples.

Personally, I think it's the latter.

24" iMac with built-in 4.5K display: $1299
24" 4.5K accessory display: $2499



It costs $1200 to remove the $1300 iMac.

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  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-03, 17:37

Yeah, accessories/peripherals are rarely twice the cost of the computer they're being used with. There might be some weirdo exception with some fancy drawing tablet or a super high-end scanner, but you know what I'm talking about. As a rule, add-ons are less. Usually quite a bit less. And certainly in that "regular person", consumer space of Safari/iTunes/FaceTime/iMovie/Garageband folks.

What are they (and I'm squarely in that group, so I'm not using "they" as any sort of slam/snark) going to do with a $2,500 monitor?!

Come on...

I think some people got drunk and posted some rumors. Or this Gurman guy is reading the tea leaves wrong, and/or working off some really boinked-up info.

I do find it interesting - troubling? - that neither he or MacRumors felt compelled to point out how ass-tearingly high $2,500 seems for a "consumer-oriented" monitor. Is that where we are now amongst the Apple blogger/press/rumor racket, that crazy stuff like that doesn't even elicit a double-take or "hey, wait a minute...this can't be right. 'Consumer' and '$2,500' typically don't appear in the same sentence".

Yeah, I don't even want to imagine what the stand (and wheels, and sequin dressing cape/dust cover, etc.) must go for.

And do you want all the green pixels? $600.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2022-01-03 at 17:55.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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2022-01-03, 23:47

I would buy a matching 24" display for my iMac in a second. Right now I have some random LG that is awful looking, but gets the job done.

I'd love to go all in and have two 24" monitors side by side.

These rumors have been all over the place lately and they don't really seem to be getting nailed down.
  quote
PB PM
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2022-01-04, 00:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Funny that Apple has gotten itself to the point where a bunch of die-hards are sitting around teasing the company because they can't make a pro desktop setup that costs less than $12,000, and now we're giggling about their perceived inability to make a stupid consumer display for less than the cost of an entire iMac.
Apple is no longer a high end computer company, they are a luxury brand. This is the same company that sells entry level keyboards and mice for high end prices, and sells wheels for a "Pro" computer that cost more than the entry level Mac Mini! They are the Gucci, Rolex, Leica, or Rolls Royce of tech. Let's be honest, the price doesn't make sense with those brands either.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 02:38

And I hate knowing this, because it’s impossible to defend or explain. I wish they’d lose that vibe.
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chucker
 
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2022-01-04, 04:29

I'm fine with Apple doing a bunch of premium monitors. I think they may overestimate the market for a $2500 product there, and I think even a $700 monitor is quite premium, but you do you, Apple. And, to be fair, there's no lock-in: you don't technically have to buy that monitor, and third parties could do an equivalent monitor.

But they haven't.

And I'm worried Apple isn't noticing, or doesn't know what to do. We're almost twelve years into the iPhone with Retina Display, or ten for the Mac, and external displays that support it are basically not a thing, aside from a handful of products, all but one of them discontinued. And meanwhile, macOS has gotten worse about rendering text when not in Retina, by removing subpixel rendering altogether.

I worry that nobody at Apple looks into "how are Macs actually typically used", because "after buying a $3k MacBook Pro, I will add a $2.5k monitor to the basket" ain't it.

I don't need Apple to make a $300 Retina Display. That was never going to happen. What I need them to do is either figure out a strategy where other display vendors start competing for each other to make high-resolution displays (Microsoft has the same problem, although to a lesser extent; maybe talk to them?), or Apple needs to roll back some of their dogmatic decisions here. I get it: it's nice for developers to throw an entire complex legacy path of code away. But that legacy path of subpixel rendering is actually still relevant for almost anybody with an additional display. That's gotta be tens of millions of users. Do they not have metrics on that?
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 06:45

The things they opt to focus on vs. the stuff they don’t never fails to amuse/confuse/irk me.

As much as they hit on all cylinders in some areas/products, they’re completely ball-dropping/point-missing in others.

And every time I find myself thinking “well, they’re just one company; they have to prioritize and they can’t do every little thi…”, I slap myself and “bullcrap…it’s Apple! They’ve got more money than God, they can hire the absolute best and brightest - and as many of them as they need - to tackle anything and everything they want! There’s absolutely no excuse/reason for some of this silly shit.”

And that’s what it comes down to…want. That they seem okay with less-than experiences in various places, while constantly falling over themselves to make sure this-or-that product, market, checkbox, etc. is always addressed just comes across as a bit rudderless and arbitrary.

I always imagine there’s a dartboard in Tim’s office, and several times a year he flings a few darts at it and that’s their guidepost/roadmap. And they always land on the same 6-8 things. Some parts of the board have somehow managed to never be touched by a dart!

They’re the biggest company in the world. There’s absolutely no excuse for some of the things going on. And while the good far outweighs the iffy and the “uh-oh”, it’s because of all the above that the iffy/uh-oh stand out, and sting, a bit more than they probably would otherwise.

They suffer from Auto-Cranial Rectal Insertion Syndrome (ACRIS) more than most companies. They need to work on extraction protocols and breathe some fresh air from time to time.
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PB PM
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2022-01-04, 09:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
And I hate knowing this, because it’s impossible to defend or explain. I wish they’d lose that vibe.
In a way Apple has always had that vibe, it just wasn’t as obvious to you? I think Jobs did a much better job of masking it, because it was just a computer company until later in his time. Cook has taken that torch and gone full out. Why it feels odd is that they still make a few sensible products for consumers Mac Mini, iMac, iPhone SE, Watch SE, and the MacBook Air. That is something most luxury brands don’t even try to do.
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chucker
 
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2022-01-04, 09:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Apple is no longer a high end computer company, they are a luxury brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
In a way Apple has always had that vibe, it just wasn’t as obvious to you?
Hm.

I don't think the latter is true. Things like the Apple Watch Edition were really more of an outlier at the time. I don't even really mind, as long as their other products don't suffer. I get the sense their Angela Ahrendts-era Store changes hurt more than they helped. Not just me, but Apple itself. You can have a high-end Watch, but don't call your stores "Apple Del Monte". It's a store, not a town square.

For the monitor situation, I really think it's more of a blind spot thing. I mean, they have to be aware that equipping their staff with $6k displays is kind of silly, and while they may be OK with doing that for their own engineers (compared to the kind of pay you have to give a Bay Area engineer, a $6k display is a bit of a nothingburger), there have to be internal discussions on what that means for the broader customer base.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 09:37

Agreed that Apple has always had a bit of a blind spot slash high on their own supply thing when it comes to monitors. Remember that nice, flat, translucent 22" Cinema Display rocking in the new century for a cool $4k? I'll give them that they were the only things like it on the market at the time (the golden age of CRT ), but even after LCD monitors became ubiquitous 5 or so years later, Apple still came out with that 30" Cinema Display north of $3k. Cool factors aside, both of those monitors were a fair chunk of change at the times.

[edit]: just pulled out the ever trusty Mactracker and an inflation calc ($USD):
1999 Cinema Display: $3999 = $6671.75 in 2022
2004 Cinema Display: $3299 = $4854.16 in 2022

So, factoring in inflation the XDR is right in line for Apple, and $2500 for anything else AppleVision™ is a deal.

So it goes.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-04, 09:43

You would think Apple, as big on design/style/"everything just working together" wouldn't have a blind spot in that "monitor for the rest of us" area. They can't possibly believe the only monitor market they have are those dying to lay down $5,000+ for the privilege.

It's silly.

They know they sell $699 Mac mini and $999-1,299 notebooks all day long. And they're okay with users pairing them with just anything off the shelf from Office Depot or Best Buy? That's an odd disconnect. Plus, Apple doing it they'll - as they've done in the past - make sure it smartly works with Macs (charging notebooks, providing handy hubs and possibly even a built-in camera, meaning Mac mini users can once again have first-party Apple webcam access again. Mini and Air owners would probably love to spend ~$800 on a display that not only looks much nicer and "the part" sitting next to their Mac, but that also provides all the things a $129 Westinghouse or other Best Buy special would never do. It would be a fuller, better experience. Just like those Cinema and Thunderbolt displays in the past were. For whatever reason, Apple made them go away.

Something that might be going on is that they're waiting to get all their stuff a) fully transitioned to AS and b) for any upcoming redesigns (rumored Mac mini and the upcoming MacBook Air rethinking) out there, so that any new display they may do for the consumer-level crowd better ties in, design-wise, with new Macs that haven't been released?

So maybe one is coming, but it'll hinge on the introduction/release of new, redesigned Macs slated for 2022.

There could be a Mac-centric media event between now and summer where this sort of stuff is released.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-04, 09:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Agreed that Apple has always had a bit of a blind spot slash high on their own supply thing when it comes to monitors. Remember that nice, flat, translucent 22" Cinema Display rocking in the new century for a cool $4k? I'll give them that they were the only things like it on the market at the time (the golden age of CRT ), but even after LCD monitors became ubiquitous 5 or so years later, Apple still came out with that 30" Cinema Display north of $3k. Cool factors aside, both of those monitors were a fair chunk of change at the times.
Exactly. The need to get a grip.

I made, and deleted, a crack yesterday about Apple at times only seeming interested in catering to the Dubai oil sheik heir market. Well, I'm reinstating that comment...never should've deleted it yesterday. And I'll take it back if/when they pull back from that a bit.

PS - Google Image "Dubai rich guy" for a funny glimpse of my mental image of Apple's favorite customer base. When you have a pet cheetah/panther riding shotgun in your custom, one-off Bugatti, you can buy WTF-ever monitor you want!

"Apple, I'm looking for a monitor more in the $30,000 range, what can you do for me?"
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PB PM
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2022-01-04, 09:55

I’m more of a function over form kind of guy, so pairing an Apple device with a third party monitor has never bothered me. The last Apple screen I owned was the big CRT they made and paired with the G4 Power Macs at launch. As beautiful as they looked, I never considered an Apple LCD as being a rational purchase, outside of the iMac or notebook. Even at $1000, I wouldn’t buy an Apple monitor. $500, might consider it and end up buying something else anyway. Why? 9 times out of 10 the Apple stuff is beautiful, but not the best bang for your buck when it comes to accessories. Not afraid to spend good money on a monitor, my primary was $650 when I got it, Apple just seems to cut corners somewhere at a given price point.
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chucker
 
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2022-01-04, 09:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Agreed that Apple has always had a bit of a blind spot slash high on their own supply thing when it comes to monitors. Remember that nice, flat, translucent 22" Cinema Display rocking in the new century for a cool $4k? I'll give them that they were the only things like it on the market at the time (the golden age of CRT ), but even after LCD monitors became ubiquitous 5 or so years later, Apple still came out with that 30" Cinema Display north of $3k. Cool factors aside, both of those monitors were a fair chunk of change at the times.
OK, but the 30-inch ACD was introduced alongside the 20- and 23-inch. And Steve kinda new that this was the special premium thing.

The 20-inch was $1,299.

And in any case, if Apple only wants to do luxury displays? OK. Figure out a way to convince third parties to do non-luxury displays that make macOS look good. Or bring back subpixel rendering.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-04, 10:01

At some of those prices, no. If they'd put something out normal people could feel good about buying, I believe many would.

I'd love to see their numbers on this current $5,000 one. I've wanted to see those for a good while now. Just out of curiosity. Are they selling anywhere close to Apple's assumptions/projections? Well probably never know until another 10-15 years when some retired exec writes their "I was there when it happened" tell-all.

"You would not believe the crazy shit that got brought up, or greenlit, during some of those meetings during the Tim Cook era, and while Jony Ive was still with the company. Here are a few that will blown your mind...".

As recently as summer 2016 Apple was selling that 27" Thunderbolt Display at $999. So it's not too crazy to think they could sell an iMac-like 24" display, 5-6 years later, for $799-899. If they wanted.
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PB PM
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2022-01-04, 10:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
And in any case, if Apple only wants to do luxury displays? OK. Figure out a way to convince third parties to do non-luxury displays that make macOS look good. Or bring back subpixel rendering.
Apple’s too small in the computer market for the third parties to care, sorry. The Mac Mini is the only Apple computer the requires one after all.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 10:42

I'm scared to go to MacRumors...no telling what other "coming in 2022" nuttiness I might come across.

"Upcoming iPhone SE will require a dongle to make calls"

"Apple slated to release 60" Drive-In Display for the consumer market, starting at $14,999"

"Ridiculous-ass, punch-magnet AR/VR headset to completely replace all iPhone models by 2025"

"Cardi B signs with Apple to design signature set of WAP AirPods starting at $699; profits go to...well, you really don't want to know, trust us"

"Jony Ive reportedly eyeing a return to Apple...'I simply didn't go thin enough, and I now realize there's so much more I can do', the onion-headed designer stated in a press release"






Don't laugh...any two of the above stand an honest shot at coming to be.
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PB PM
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2022-01-04, 10:57

Having looked at what 9to5 expects in 2022, there is nothing that outlandish. Mostly Mac updates, higher end AirPod Pros, a new screen, iPad updates, more iPhones without the notch, SE with 5G and that’s about it. Apples likely holding back due to supply constraints.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Having looked at what 9to5 expects in 2022, there is nothing that outlandish.
Oh really?! Okay, whew! Man, for a minute there, I was truly expecting all those things...and not joking at all.



Nothing gets by you!





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PB PM
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2022-01-04, 11:29

I was hoping for the Mac Mini, Michel Jordan edition, but alas, another year of tears.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-01-04, 11:48

I’m kinda interested in the “Mac mini, only bigger/beefier” rumor that’s out there. What form that might take. Only because we’ve done the “headless iMac” talk here for about 67 years. Is this the year such a thing comes to be? Is there going to be some headless option between the mini-as-we-know-it and the $5K tower that nobody I know will ever buy/own?

Is 2022 the year Apple once again realizes there is a band of users in that $1,500-3,500 range, and makes some stuff for them too?

I’m expecting some neat things in 2022. The AS transition will complete, several known products are getting a redesign, Ive is gone so other priorities besides “light and thin” will be seen, etc.

I think, this time next year, we’ll have a pretty nice lineup of stuff to look at. We’ll squawk/bitch about the pricing and a few BTO oddities, but that’s a given at this point.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-01-04, 12:16

Man I just keep getting older. I feel like my eyes are ready for a 32” display.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-02-15, 10:16

Saw this at MacRumors...it definitely fits here:

Apple is Finally Making a Cheaper Display: What We Know

Not sure what makes them so certain/confident, but I do think it's something that would be nice for all the smaller notebook and Mac mini owners, assuming they're reasonably-price (and, with Apple, that's always a coin-toss, isn't it?).

It seems like, at the very least, Apple would offer a sub-$1,000 24" display to pair nicely with the Mac mini. Seems a shame those buyers shell out for a nice, well-spec'd Mac and then hook it to some who-knows-what third-party display that may or may not provide useful ports or features. And those same people have to buy some third-party webcam too, when it would be nice if they could just have a solid 24" offering from Apple with the camera built in, maybe a few more ports, etc. If Apple can sell such a thing - with a computer attached - for $1,299, then I have to believe yanking out the computer part of it gets them below $1,000.
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