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MacBook Air (2020)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-11-10, 15:31

New MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Interestingly, they didn't go into color options during the keynote. They also didn't talk about the different M1 options that apparently exist:

GPU goes from 7 to 8 cores with the step up.

Other than that it is build to order for RAM and storage:

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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chucker
 
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2020-11-10, 15:39

A few thoughts:

7-core and 8-core GPU options on the Air sounds… a lot like the A12X and A12Z? Probably a coincidence, though.

My prediction that they'd keep some Intel models around was correct; both the 13-inch Pro and mini can still be bought with x86. Makes sense.

The Mac mini no longer has a 10 GigE option (it's still there if you pick the Intel model). I guess they're repositioning it again? It also starts a little lower again at $699.

I'm increasingly annoyed by these presentations. They need a new editor for them. Craig was pretty good, Laura(?) and John were OK, Johny just felt… insulting. If you're not gonna show actual numbers, why keep showing those unlabeled charts? We get it, they're faster and more power-efficient, but that entire presentation could've boiled down to those two bullet points. I don't understand whom that segment was for. It was too nerdy for almost anyone watching, but also devoid of information for those interested.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2020-11-10, 15:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
...
We get it, they're faster and more power-efficient, but that entire presentation could've boiled down to those two bullet points. I don't understand whom that segment was for. It was too nerdy for almost anyone watching, but also devoid of information for those interested.
So right on point here! I felt like I was going to get gritty details and left feeling like I had a book with blank pages.
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chucker
 
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2020-11-10, 15:43

I did enjoy the clip featuring third parties. Only segment so far, halfway in, where I'm somewhat entertained.

That globe symbol on the fn key also seems new; iPad-derived?
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-11-10, 16:07

FYI: The options in the image at top appear to be in error. The $1249 price for the 512 is off, considering you can pick the $999 model, upgrade the storage to 512, and wind up at $1199. There are no differences in the M1 (at least none published—and Apple would have noted it, and it would be evident in the other machine options.)

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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2020-11-10, 16:10

..but ..but there is a difference. Notice the GPU options. $50 extra for one more GPU core according to their site.

I like the Vet/Military pricing better personally:

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2020-11-10, 16:32

Ohhhhhhh … interesting.

Thank you for that.

I wonder, are those a slightly different design, or are those the chips with a failed GPU core that has been switched off?
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turtle
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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2020-11-10, 16:55

I have to think they cripple the chip and it is made from the same die.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-11-10, 17:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I have to think they cripple the chip and it is made from the same die.
This is entirely about economies of scale. Bean counters over tailored solutions for different tiers of products. They now have three major products all using the same SoC. They could have made a modification for the MacBook Pro to accommodate more RAM but they didn’t. Apple is all about economies of scale.
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PB PM
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2020-11-10, 17:52

Notice how no clock speeds are listed? Guess because there is only one speed, so there is no point.
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kscherer
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2020-11-10, 18:07

Apple has never publicly announced clock speeds for their custom chips. People think that clock speed is king, but it isn't. What die size is used? It matters. How fast is the RAM? That matters, too. How fast is the storage? That also matters. It's an out-of-date "horsepower" argument. My brother's 18-wheeler has way more horsepower than my pickup, but my pickup is a LOT faster than his truck. My "X" has more power than your "Y" is not a valid argument, and it never has been. Back in the day, 800MHz PowerPC G4's were running circles around 3GHZ Pentium 4's.

Why do we care about clock speed?

Apple builds a system, and clock speed is irrelevant. Sure, clock speed comparisons are important if you believe that clock speed is the only important metric. Otherwise, I don't care.

And it will be fun and challenging with those customers for whom clock speed is the only thing that matters.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-11-10 at 18:17.
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chucker
 
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2020-11-10, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
They could have made a modification for the MacBook Pro to accommodate more RAM but they didn’t.
I don't know that they could've. The M1 is a SoC with integrated RAM. Putting 16 GB in it really pushes things.

For a model with more RAM, you probably want discrete RAM, which requires a different architecture the M1 apparently can't handle at all.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-10, 19:16

I know we don't have reviews, teardowns, benchmarks, etc., but for those of you who know about such things, how does this new Air, on paper/what we saw today, shake out against, say, an early 2013 13" MacBook Pro (Retina) with 2.6GHz Core i5, 8GB RAM and Intel HD Graphics 4000?

Just the age along, seven-plus years, says a lot, right?

I'm happy with the performance of this loaner (that seems to have become a full-timer).

I don't have anything to compare to...cores and this and that don't register with me.

Would could possibly be the real-world difference between a 7-core GPU and the 8-core? If it were 4-core vs. 8-core, that's a little more clear-cut. But 7 to 8...
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PB PM
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2020-11-10, 20:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Apple has never publicly announced clock speeds for their custom chips. People think that clock speed is king, but it isn't... balablabala
Anyone who follows computers as much as we do knows that, and that isn't why I brought it up. The question is, does that mean there is only CPU model for all the (M1) equipped units, or is it that they don't want to show that there are different clock speeds between sub-models models? One of them clearly is, since it has a weaker GPU. That does leave us to wonder if there are not speed differences between models as well. Guess we'll have to wait for testing to know for sure.
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PB PM
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2020-11-10, 20:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I know we don't have reviews, teardowns, benchmarks, etc., but for those of you who know about such things, how does this new Air, on paper/what we saw today, shake out against, say, an early 2013 13" MacBook Pro (Retina) with 2.6GHz Core i5, 8GB RAM and Intel HD Graphics 4000?

Just the age along, seven-plus years, says a lot, right?

I'm happy with the performance of this loaner (that seems to have become a full-timer).

I don't have anything to compare to...cores and this and that don't register with me.

Would could possibly be the real-world difference between a 7-core GPU and the 8-core? If it were 4-core vs. 8-core, that's a little more clear-cut. But 7 to 8...
In terms of speed the new M1 chips should be a very noticeable upgrade over anything Apple was shipping in 2013. As for the GPU, who knows, those core count numbers mean very little compared to other iGPs in the notebook market. In terms of the raw performance numbers, it's good for a IGP for 2020. It's what you get if you buy a Mac now, so it is what it is. It will an improvement over any IGP Intel has shipped in the last 8-10 years, no doubt about it. Core count? In terms of GPU's generally more is better, since they are parallel compute units at the end of the day.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-11-11, 11:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Anyone who follows computers as much as we do knows that, and that isn't why I brought it up. The question is, does that mean there is only CPU model for all the (M1) equipped units, or is it that they don't want to show that there are different clock speeds between sub-models models? One of them clearly is, since it has a weaker GPU. That does leave us to wonder if there are not speed differences between models as well. Guess we'll have to wait for testing to know for sure.
For comparison's sake, I'm not sure Apple is going to release anything at all. They haven't on the iPad lineup, other than having an "X" model with more cores. Not sure how they are going to differentiate this going forward.

I would like to see something, but I don't think clock speed is going to be the answer, here. Or, perhaps they just want to figure it out for ourselves (i.e. Geekbench, etc.)?

When the 16" Pro drops, I'm sure there will be an M1x to talk about. It will have more cores of all types.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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kscherer
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2020-11-12, 11:43

Has anyone ever seen one of those home run hitters take a whack at the ball so hard that the ball explodes and the stuffing flies out?

Um

Multi-core:
16" MacBook Pro 8-core i9: 6870
13" MacBook Air 8-core M1: 7433

Single-core:
27" iMac 10-core i9: 1252
13" MacBook Air: 1687

Yes, I know about sustained performance because of fans and blahblahblah. However, this accomplishment is just truly incredible. Those are not small improvements. They are flat-out kick the crap out of the competition-level improvements.

The 13" MacBook Air (for this moment) is now the fastest computer Apple has ever made! In a few minutes it will be either the Mac Mini or the entry-level 13" MacBook Pro.

That is nuts!

Yeah, Apple's not gonna be able to compete! "They can't just walk in here and make a phone."

I have been saying it since the conversation started: Apple is not to be underestimated! Their silicon team is by far the best in the industry, and they are simply outclassing every other attempt on any platform. It will be only a matter of a few years before Apple is making the fastest computers money can buy, short of actual, you know, supercomputers.

And if anyone was caught flat-footed they should be fired, because the writing has been on the iPad wall for at least 5 years.

And if anyone cares, the macBook Air is clocking at 3.2GHz.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-11-12 at 12:05.
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chucker
 
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2020-11-12, 14:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
And if anyone cares, the macBook Air is clocking at 3.2GHz.
Well, FWIW, numbers like clock rate on unreleased computers are often guessed by Geekbench. (At least on iOS, where Geekbench can't ask the OS.)

The clock speed difference (3.2 GHz vs. 3 GHz on the A14) does fit the score difference of around 6%, but, again, that could just be exactly what Geekbench is estimating.
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chucker
 
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2020-11-12, 14:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I know we don't have reviews, teardowns, benchmarks, etc., but for those of you who know about such things, how does this new Air, on paper/what we saw today, shake out against, say, an early 2013 13" MacBook Pro (Retina) with 2.6GHz Core i5, 8GB RAM and Intel HD Graphics 4000?
Well, if you take the 2020 13-inch Pro and compare it against the 2013, it's a very clear win. About thrice as fast at single-core tasks, and on top of that, you're going from two cores to 4+4.

The Air is a bit trickier. It lacks a fan, so for sustained loads, it'll eventually throttle and/or get rather hot. So it may be a bit more annoying to handle when doing long stuff like encoding video.
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kscherer
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2020-11-19, 18:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Ohhhhhhh … interesting.

Thank you for that.

I wonder, are those a slightly different design, or are those the chips with a failed GPU core that has been switched off?
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I have to think they cripple the chip and it is made from the same die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
This is entirely about economies of scale. Bean counters over tailored solutions for different tiers of products. They now have three major products all using the same SoC. They could have made a modification for the MacBook Pro to accommodate more RAM but they didn’t. Apple is all about economies of scale.
This from iFixit:

Quote:
It packs eight CPU cores (four optimized for performance, and four more for efficiency), and an integrated GPU with either 7 cores or 8, depending on which config you order. (Both use the same M1 chip off the exact same production line, but Apple sorts them in a process known as “binning” where slightly lower-quality silicon results in one GPU core being disabled.)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-11-20, 08:55

Well, I guess that is one way to throw less out at the end of a run!

Also from iFixit, this made me laugh:

Quote:
Like Craig Federighi before us, today we’re opening up the new M1 MacBooks and seeing the light. Except… we opened them from the other side. Oops.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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