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Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 03:37

In the begining there was the chip known as GPUL aka PPC970. Next the GPUL 10S aka Altair aka PPC970FX. Next? An****s aka PPC9****!

Anyone care to speculate? :smokey:

Morpheus
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-18, 04:21

Next up is the GRUL POWER5 derivative. SMT will be added amongst a few other new features.
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 04:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Next up is the GRUL POWER5 derivative. SMT will be added amongst a few other new features.
Incorrect. Try again... Read this old NMR report for some clues... But for sure, something else will be delievered around the end of the year to Cupertino...

Has the name Antares been mentioned somewhere?

Morpheus
 
staph
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2004-07-18, 07:47

With respect, I think this might be one of those situations which is designed for that great Australian phrase: "put up or shut up".

What are you trying to tell us?
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 08:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by staph
With respect, I think this might be one of those situations which is designed for that great Australian phrase: "put up or shut up".

What are you trying to tell us?
Fair enough:

Antares is a dual core (two processors on single die) follow-on to Altair, using IBM's CMOS SOI10K technology with SOI (Silicon On Insulator) and copper bus with 10 layers of metal. Each core has a 1M L2 cache. L3 cache is not supported.

How is this for a start?

Morpheus
 
staph
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2004-07-18, 09:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
Fair enough:

Antares is a dual core (two processors on single die) follow-on to Altair, using IBM's CMOS SOI10K technology with SOI (Silicon On Insulator) and copper bus with 10 layers of metal. Each core has a 1M L2 cache. L3 cache is not supported.

How is this for a start?

Morpheus
Thank you. That's much better.

Any thoughts on what core it's using (modified 970? stripped down P5 w/ Altivec, perhaps with SMT?)
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 09:17

It will be marketed as PowerPC 970MP. Take your own conclusions...

Morpheus
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-18, 12:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
Incorrect. Try again... Read this old NMR report for some clues... But for sure, something else will be delievered around the end of the year to Cupertino...

Has the name Antares been mentioned somewhere?

Morpheus
Antares is the name of an music company

I think I'd trust an IBM pdf mentioning the GR-UL over a NMR report from 2002. Do you have any "real" information or have you not woken up from the matrix yet
:smokey:

The POWER5 is the GR the derivative GR-UL (ultra light or whatever)

please come with something more substantial than 2 yr old links or don't come at all.

omgwtfbbq
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 18:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Antares is the name of an music company

I think I'd trust an IBM pdf mentioning the GR-UL over a NMR report from 2002. Do you have any "real" information or have you not woken up from the matrix yet
:smokey:

The POWER5 is the GR the derivative GR-UL (ultra light or whatever)

please come with something more substantial than 2 yr old links or don't come at all.
Eh? It just happens that that 2 yo link is the first reference to GPUL out there. Anyway hmurchison, why would you give any credit to my words? There may be some around here these days (like Nick-de-Plum from ThinkSecret), that could put a word or two for me.

You want "real" info? You will have it. Does this board supports attachments? how?

Morpheus
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-18, 19:20

I don't doubt your info but http://www.fz-juelich.de/zam/files/d...4_arch.2up.pdf this link which is now dead used to show that the POWER5 is known as the "GR" and below it had "GR-UL" referenced to a 97x chip. Wouldn't this naming scheme seem to corrolate with how they handled the POWER4 and hence GP-UL? Can we expect Dual Core during 1H 2005? What about ondie memory controllers do you think that will make it in the POWER5 derivative? I'm just razzin' you for more info but I'm always keen on hearing any speculation. It's fun to me.

omgwtfbbq
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-18, 19:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
I don't doubt your info but http://www.fz-juelich.de/zam/files/d...4_arch.2up.pdf this link which is now dead used to show that the POWER5 is known as the "GR" and below it had "GR-UL" referenced to a 97x chip. Wouldn't this naming scheme seem to corrolate with how they handled the POWER4 and hence GP-UL? Can we expect Dual Core during 1H 2005? What about ondie memory controllers do you think that will make it in the POWER5 derivative? I'm just razzin' you for more info but I'm always keen on hearing any speculation. It's fun to me.
hmurchison, GR is a different story...

Antares is Power4 based. There was a time when a dual-core GPUL was the only plan (as mentioned on the NMR linked above), although that changed for various reasons...

As for planned dates, Protos to Apple Aug/2004 and Oct/2004, Prod Jan/2005... as for Apple's plan, that I do not know...

Is it possible to post attachments here?

BTW, the link you refer to is live at http://www.fz-juelich.de/zam/files/d...4_arch.2up.pdf


Morpheus
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-19, 01:47

Some more details:

"The IBM PowerPC 970MP RISC Microprocessor
is a dual-core, 64-bit implementation of the IBM
PowerPC family of reduced instruction set computer
(RISC) microprocessors that are based on the PowerPC
Architecture. This dual microprocessor, also called the
PowerPC 970MP, includes a Vector/SIMD facility which
supports high-bandwidth data processing and compute-intensive
operations. The 970MP is also designed to
support multiple system organizations, including desktop
and low-end server applications, up through 4-way SMP
configurations.
Note: The IBM PowerPC 970MP incorporates two complete
microprocessors on a single chip, along with some
common logic to connect these microprocessors to a system."

Morpheus
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-19, 02:03

Morpheus- Interesting. Does this mean we see Quads next MWSF? Hmmm how would Apple position a Dual DC Powermac within the lineup?

$3499 Quad 2.5Ghz
$2799 Dual 2.8Ghz
$2399 Dual 2.5Ghz
$1999 Dual 2.0Ghz

All PCI Express of course.

omgwtfbbq
 
FFL
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2004-07-19, 02:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
Is it possible to post attachments here?
Morpheus
Well, I can, but I think that's just because I'm a Moderator.

Morpheus, check you PMs.
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-19, 08:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL
Well, I can, but I think that's just because I'm a Moderator.

Morpheus, check you PMs.
FFL,

Read and actioned.

Many thanks

Morpheus
 
FFL
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2004-07-19, 09:07

Morpheus look pretty genuine to me....

very interesting stuff, thanks Morpheus

FFL
 
Barto
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2004-07-19, 09:30

/Title (BLUELOGO.EPS)
/Creator (Adobe Illustrator\(TM\) 3.0)
/Metadata 734 0 R
/Author (CAPT. JAMES T. KIRK)

That's lines 1062-1065 of the PDF.

I'm just sayin'

The sky was deep black; Jesus still loved me. I started down the alley, wailing in a ragged bass.
 
sCreeD
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2004-07-19, 09:34

"Clock Dithering (New feature for 970FX DD3.0, enhanced in 970MP)"

Hmm...

Screed
 
Barto
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2004-07-19, 09:39

Of course someone at IBM's graphics department could have a sense of humor.
And line 5439 lists the creation date (2004-06-15) and CreatorTool (FrameMaker 7.1) and line 5441 lists the author as IBM Microelectronics.

Somebody willing to devote a lot of time and effort could have made this. So at this stage, as with almost all "leaked" images and documents, I can't tell (and nobody else can really - like with the 10.4 screenshots for example).

The sky was deep black; Jesus still loved me. I started down the alley, wailing in a ragged bass.
 
FFL
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2004-07-19, 10:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barto
/Title (BLUELOGO.EPS)
/Creator (Adobe Illustrator\(TM\) 3.0)
/Metadata 734 0 R
/Author (CAPT. JAMES T. KIRK)

That's lines 1062-1065 of the PDF.

I'm just sayin'
That would seem to be referring to the IBM corporate logo, which is not something very easy to get in a EPS format. Although the Capt. Kirk thing seems kinda fun and free-spirited for an IBM employee (probably using a Mac in the graphics dept...)

I don't see that as a cred-killer. Glad to see skeptical investigation though!
 
FFL
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2004-07-19, 10:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barto
Of course someone at IBM's graphics department could have a sense of humor.
And line 5439 lists the creation date (2004-06-15) and CreatorTool (FrameMaker 7.1) and line 5441 lists the author as IBM Microelectronics.

Somebody willing to devote a lot of time and effort could have made this. So at this stage, as with almost all "leaked" images and documents, I can't tell (and nobody else can really - like with the 10.4 screenshots for example).
For the record, Morpheus has shown me a bit more stuff, which strongly indicates he's for real.

So, what say we get on with discussing the material itself, rather than the source and the validity thereof? :smokey:
 
Henriok
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2004-07-19, 13:06

I guess we won't se any integrated memory controller this time either. Good news anyway!
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-19, 13:24

Good job Morpheus. I'm not worthy

The pdf makes sense to me. Not because I'm an engineer but because It's very believable. If I was a IBM employee wanting to create a false document for fun..I think I would be a little bit more bold than creating a dual core datasheet. Hell I would have wrote some bogus cell processor info with made up stuff tossed in. This doc convinces me that Apple/IBM are definitely planning dual core...perhaps by next model revision.

Apple's nextgen Powermacs may all be dual core computers using only once socket. I'm sure this would allow them to make the mobo cheaper. However they could go crazy and go for dual sockets for dual cores. Option options.
 
Henriok
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2004-07-19, 14:30

Will this 970MP be pin compatible with existing 970 processors? This information should be available in the PDF but the index doesn't reveal anything about it. It it is, chanses are pretty good that Apple quite easily could just put two of these on the existing mobos and pray to God that the liquid cooling will be sufficient.
 
Powerdoc
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2004-07-19, 16:21

If this info is true, then we should not see hyperthreaded G5, but dual core G5.
This dual core G5 will be huge chip,even, bigger than the power4 (even if there is no L3 cache manager, there is two altivec unit : one for each core).

I day it's not impossible to see such a chip, but I am surprised that they do not create an hyperthreaded G5 who recquieres much less transistors (but who will be less performant either).

This G5 MP, will produce lot of heat. It may be possible to see one in a desktop with the 90 nm process, but we will never see them in an I mac or a powerbook, unless they will be fabbed on 65 nm process.
 
oldmacfan
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2004-07-19, 16:38

Why am I only gettting 3 pages of the PDF?
 
Powerdoc
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2004-07-19, 16:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacfan
Why am I only gettting 3 pages of the PDF?
By showing us this PDF, the man broke his NDA, but as he is only showing the table of content, he do not broke it too much.
If he show the internal content, he will truly betray the companie from who he is working for. There is some secret infos here.

This is explanation one;

Explanation two, it's a fake, and the less he say, the less work it is, and the less mistakes he will do. but FFL think it's a real PDF file, so I will vote (and be happy to) for explanation one.
 
Morpheus
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2004-07-19, 16:46

Many thanks to FFL to post the file. Do I now have your attention?

Die size? 13.23mm * 11.63mm Pin comp? yes

Morpheus
Guardian of Dreams
 
hmurchison
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2004-07-19, 17:05

Powerdocs right. That's a big chips. Seems strange in the light that IBM has struggled with yields. Say we get dual core in the 1st half of 2005. Does that mean we get the POWER5 derivative in the second half?

omgwtfbbq
 
curiousuburb
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2004-07-20, 01:14

Antares is in the constellation Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus
As for planned dates, Protos to Apple Aug/2004 and Oct/2004, Prod Jan/2005... as for Apple's plan, that I do not know...
Can we get Carol to measure this CPU's Natal Clock cycles and give a horoscope?

"Scorpios are flirtatious in their communications with others and network well" = xGrid benefits?
 
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